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#RubyOnRails - 31 January 2016

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[00:01:45] l4v2: Thank you. I have lots of questions still, maybe you could point me to a good book?
[00:02:15] chridal: Anyone know any good books on application performance (thinking about CPU, HDD, RAM) etc.
[00:02:16] nickjj: some clients will just sit there for months getting quotes from a dozen+ people, possibly with no intentions of picking anyone
[00:02:23] chridal: Really want to understand what affects performance
[00:03:15] nickjj: so charging them some $ up front of a legit project discovery document/quote is reasonable, and you can propose it to them by saying you'll deduct this fee from the contract price if they pick you -- it's a win/win
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[00:04:04] smathy: chridal, I found this very good: https://pragprog.com/book/adrpo/ruby-performance-optimization
[00:04:26] nickjj: l4v2, i don't know of any books, everything i've learned came from experience
[00:04:41] chridal: smathy: Cool Thanks!
[00:05:01] l4v2: ok, so what should I say for a price to meet with them?
[00:05:52] chridal: smathy: Do you know about some more general server performance books too?
[00:05:59] nickjj: depends on how much you value your time, if it takes 5 hours to make it, just multiply that by whatever your hourly is
[00:07:24] l4v2: final question, what is an inline web quote based on all front end work, but probably 20 pages. I know it is hard to say, but are we talking 5k, 10k, 15k, etc.
[00:07:28] nickjj: i would likely meet with them for free, hear what they have to say, propose the document for a fee
[00:08:33] nickjj: impossible to say in your example case, you would need way more info
[00:09:10] smathy: chridal, I can't really see how any performance book could be general.
[00:09:14] nickjj: because the amount depends on determining the amount of work required to fulfill it, and you can't really figure that out without putting in the time to break apart their entire idea
[00:09:16] l4v2: I know, but I didn???t plan on making this, I am not in business for myself, so I am just trying to not look like an outlier in my quote.
[00:09:22] smathy: chridal, they're all very specific to what you're doing, and the software you're running.
[00:09:39] chridal: smathy: Well I would like to understand how disk speed matters for an application, how RAM matters
[00:09:45] chridal: What kind of IOPS speeds do this and that
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[00:10:22] chridal: It's just that I don't have any clue as to how a host in a cluster would benefit from 4GB extra RAM etc.
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[00:10:34] nickjj: 20 pages just means too much without context, is it 20 "website" pages where all 20 pages are basically the same template but with slightly different text? etc.
[00:10:40] smathy: Right, exactly. How could there be a general book on that when those sorts of considerations are specific not just to the application you're using, but even the use cases within that application.
[00:11:23] l4v2: nickjj walk me through how you do business
[00:11:54] smathy: chridal, that's just so environment dependent. If your app doesn't use a lot of RAM then it won't help at all, if you're using a threaded app server like unicorn/puma instead of a process server like passenger then the RAM will have less impact, etc. etc. etc.
[00:11:58] nickjj: i would say spend less time worrying about the other people giving quotes and just concentrate on providing good value to your potential client in a way that makes everyone happy
[00:12:12] nickjj: you wouldn't be giving them a quote on the spot
[00:12:41] l4v2: So kind of wing it? no paper work?
[00:13:08] nickjj: you would meet with them, talk for let's say 30min, get an idea of their plan, let them know to give them an accurate quote you'll have to really break down what you talked about, and propose this for a fee and let them know the document will be a complete break down of the work required along with a quote
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[00:14:23] l4v2: Would you like to share with me one of yours? Thank you btw
[00:15:01] nickjj: not really because it would expose the inner workings of my client's businesses
[00:15:48] nickjj: but really, you're just breaking down a conversation into features
[00:16:07] l4v2: oh ok, I did that before
[00:16:10] nickjj: ok, you need a user system? cool, what composes that? people need to register, forgot password, etc... before you know it, you have 20 things listed
[00:16:21] nickjj: and now you can get a better idea of how long it will take to do it because you know what needs to be done
[00:17:15] l4v2: I???m too green for this project, even thoguh I do know front and back end, I kind of wanted a smaller project.
[00:17:51] nickjj: so even if they don't pick you, they can keep that document and pass it off to another developer, you don't care too much because you got paid for making it
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[00:21:44] l4v2: Ok, so ??? phone call, set up meeting, charge them for proposal. Then maybe adjsut it along the way?
[00:23:15] nickjj: yeah, not everyone is the same, you kind of have to feel each client out
[00:23:43] nickjj: some will just be like "ok, you're hired, when can you start" before you even discuss price or quotes
[00:23:53] l4v2: ok. thank you for the help. If I can???t do it, would you like some work :)
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[00:24:35] nickjj: maybe, i'm working on my 3rd course atm but i should be done with that in a few weeks
[00:24:35] l4v2: I???ll contract it out
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[00:25:49] l4v2: I???m just trying to learn rails better right now, and this came up. I do want the gig, but may need help.
[00:26:21] nickjj: learning on the job is the best way to do it :o
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[00:28:05] l4v2: wel if you want, im me your email, and after I meet with this guy ??? if I get it and need some help, we can work on it.
[00:28:47] l4v2: It has to do with translators for legal reasons in hospitals and court rooms
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[05:44:27] nerium: Is there a way to integrate Selenium test suit into rails?
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[07:36:50] hnanon: How can I display rescued errors in my view?
[07:37:00] hnanon: I have https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d076e51fec908dd746fc in my subscription model.
[07:37:23] hnanon: I want to show any errors in the view.
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[07:41:20] _3by8: Does anyone in here have any experience with Sunspot?
[07:42:12] helpa: Nope. No one. Ever. In the history of the world.
[07:42:38] _3by8: Specifically when I search on more than one model via Sunspot.search [Model1, Model2] do ... in what format are the search results?
[07:42:41] _3by8: sevenseacat: hi :)
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[07:43:29] sevenseacat: easy to check and find out :)
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[07:45:01] _3by8: sevenseacat: I'm guessing there's a function built into either Ruby or Rails that lets me see inside?
[07:45:05] zworks: any carrierwave expert here?
[07:45:30] _3by8: sevenseacat: I just don't know how to check.
[07:45:40] matthewd: _3by8: You may be looking for Kernel#inspect
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[07:45:56] _3by8: matthewd: perfect, I'll investigate.
[07:46:02] _3by8: sevenseacat: thank you also, as always
[07:46:32] sevenseacat: when Radar gets back, I'm so going to prompt him to finish Debugging Ruby, it is such a needed book
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[07:48:46] zworks: when using carrierwave with jquery file upload, how can i temporarily store files in the cache and move to store only when hitting the submit button?
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[07:49:46] hnanon: sevenseacat: Where did Radar go?
[07:49:53] sevenseacat: he's on holiday in Rome.
[07:50:11] hnanon: Oh, cool.
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[07:51:00] sevenseacat: matthewd: are you coming to RubyConf AU?
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[07:55:48] _3by8: So it basically just returns two different objects from two models if your search text just happens to be found on both models. Let's say it returns one User and one Order. What if I'm trying to just find all orders? Currently my search is split into two different searches and then I'm using Order.where('user_id=? OR id=?', @user_search_results, @order_search_results) does that seem reasonable or am I doing this wrong? It seems ba
[07:56:28] sevenseacat: why are you searching on two otders if you only want to search on one?
[07:56:32] sevenseacat: *on two models
[07:58:27] _3by8: sevenseacat: because the search has to be flexible. If you enter an email address or name then it should return all orders associated with that name or email address but he also wants to be able to search by purchase order number.
[07:58:58] sevenseacat: I would index the name and email with the order then
[07:59:26] _3by8: sevenseacat: ah, you're right, that probably makes more sense
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[08:00:08] sevenseacat: I would err to the side of denormalization for indexing; though it can mean you need lots of callbacks to reindex data when things change
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[08:06:23] _3by8: So how many of you guys or gals have formal educations in CS and of those people, how many of you actually use your education with algorithms and data structures?
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[08:08:28] sevenseacat: I do, and very little.
[08:08:52] matthewd: sevenseacat: Yep!
[08:09:04] sevenseacat: matthewd: awesome :D
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[08:29:51] baweaver: I do quite a bit
[08:30:14] baweaver: though most things I use are definitely non-standard CS and have to be learned as extensions of it.
[08:30:29] baweaver: short: you'll need a lot more than that degree to be good.
[08:31:07] baweaver: Really though, I wish I had spent more time on Math.
[08:32:15] sevenseacat: my uni was just realizing that hey, the web might actually be a good thing to start teaching about, just as I was coming to the end of my degree.
[08:32:43] baweaver: Mine still thinks it's a good idea to teach RPG and COBOL
[08:33:06] baweaver: I kinda want to get on the advisory board just so I can roast the companies that bought them to force that.
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[08:33:54] baweaver: I already make a point to corrupt the best students there by telling them straight out it's a monstrous waste of time.
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[08:34:41] baweaver: but the reason they do it is to hire them cheap out of College before they know any better with the toxic mentality that they're lucky to have a job and be working for them.
[08:35:03] sevenseacat: yeeeeep I'd believe it.
[08:35:19] baweaver: If you know one of those languages, you're worth your weight in gold twice over.
[08:35:36] baweaver: Instead, they hire young and stupid trying to breed lifers for pennies on the dollar.
[08:35:48] baweaver: and they hate me for spoiling it every last chance I get.
[08:37:22] baweaver: sevenseacat: any strategies for creating complicated model setups for tests?
[08:37:36] baweaver: playing around with transient attributes in FactoryGirl
[08:37:56] baweaver: If I can't find an easier way to set up a larger data source I might make one.
[08:38:10] sevenseacat: transient attributes, traits, thats about all you've got really
[08:38:13] baweaver: granted that strafes towards integration testing fast.
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[08:39:37] baweaver: What if: MetaFactoryGirl.create(store: {items: {count: 5, name: :random, price: 10..100}})
[08:40:55] baweaver: nesting for whatever level of specificity with a few added attributes (count, templates, generators [:random, range, etc])
[08:41:25] baweaver: I just get annoyed with writing out a ton of factories for particularly heavy areas of code that require it.
[08:42:34] sevenseacat: I get annoyed at writing tests that require setting up like four or five different factories and linking them together
[08:42:48] baweaver: so much that
[08:43:25] sevenseacat: I think the idea of passing a range to a factory is interesting
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[08:44:20] baweaver: count is the big thing for me in there
[08:44:37] baweaver: second only to infinite nesting
[08:45:04] baweaver: hoping to make it into the first big open source project we release
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[08:46:36] _3by8: All of the math makes me think I should just become a DBA.
[08:47:58] _3by8: I'm good at math but whenever I've been taught math, it was the shortcut way and I'm worried that when it comes time to actually apply the math, I won't have any idea how it works and then I won't be able to find the correct answer.
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[08:48:38] _3by8: Like being able to look at a problem and say oh, this problem is a calculus problem and this is a derivative.
[08:48:43] _3by8: I'm worried I won't see it.
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[08:51:24] baweaver: Set theory and Normal Forms. That doesn't get away from Math, you do realize.
[08:52:06] baweaver: I want records where a intersects b, given the subset c and including d
[08:52:54] _3by8: That still sounds easier.
[08:53:04] sevenseacat: i wish I had paid more attention in my database theory course.
[08:53:15] Technodrome: Still no good rails CMS solutions, laziness :)
[08:53:25] sevenseacat: Technodrome: feel free to writ one.
[08:53:46] baweaver: a little secret: very few are actually naturally good at anything. You have to work at it.
[08:53:53] Technodrome: Thinking about it!
[08:53:57] _3by8: baweaver: I'm aware.
[08:54:05] baweaver: including math
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[08:54:39] baweaver: Me, I've never done anything beyond Trig and Statistics.
[08:56:51] Technodrome: i would literally cry if a good rails CMS was around
[08:57:26] sevenseacat: anyone who laments 'no good CMSes' has never tried writing one.
[08:57:54] Technodrome: if you were talking to a normal human I would agree
[08:58:08] sevenseacat: ACTION raises eyebrow
[08:58:26] Technodrome: I spent 4 years doing IBM CMS and document sharing solutions and 7 years implementing Drupal and sharepoint
[08:58:41] sevenseacat: and that makes you not-normal how?
[08:58:58] Technodrome: because very few have such experience
[08:59:12] sevenseacat: ooookay. have fun.
[09:00:00] Technodrome: the rails CMS space is terrible, a few no-sql solutions, and then refinery which is the best but still very flawed, and then radiant etc are now abandonware pretty much
[09:00:31] Andr3as: for someone with your experience, it should be a piece o cake, no?
[09:00:34] baweaver: lamenting the fact in this channel will do no good.
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[09:01:52] Technodrome: I could just be submissive with my view on the matter to make people happy
[09:02:44] Technodrome: but I said, rails has no real mature or solid CMS solutions, and he said ???go write one??? I was wanting to discuss a few things around it, not be silly
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[12:43:19] hnanon: What's syntactically wrong with this: if plan == "monthly" && coupon.include? "50OFF" or plan == "yearly" && coupon.include? "5OFF"
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[12:44:17] sevenseacat: mixing && and or
[12:44:25] sevenseacat: use &&/|| or and/or
[12:44:49] sevenseacat: also, use parentheses to resolve ambiguity.
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[12:47:53] hnanon: if (plan == "monthly" && coupon.include? "50OFF") || (plan == "yearly" && coupon.include? "5OFF")
[12:48:12] hnanon: gives me a "string literal in condition" warning
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[12:48:46] hnanon: and an error: expecting )
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[12:48:58] sevenseacat: not from that code.
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[12:49:37] hnanon: Ok. Must be on another line, but it's giving me that line number for the error.
[12:49:51] matthewd: Use parens on nested method calls too
[12:50:06] sevenseacat: always a good idea.
[12:50:13] Voyage: my redmine says Installed: 3.0~20140825-8 in ubuntu "apt-cache policy redmine" but 2.5 in url/redmine/information page. Any clue why?
[12:51:51] hnanon: matthewd: That fixed it. Thanks.
[12:51:56] hnanon: sevenseacat: thanks.
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[13:32:32] arup_r: "ugh" means ? :p
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[15:19:02] jeanre: whats the best way to override a attributes, I have a model, that is linked to a parent, if the model.attribute is nil then I want to return the model.parent.attribute
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[15:24:02] smoitra: Hi, folks I am trying to log my learning experience in my blog http://smoitra.com/posts/. Please give me some feedbacks on about the articles
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[16:38:23] CassioAlmeidas: what better version of Ruby to use with Rails 4.2?
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[16:42:23] tbuehlmann: the guides say "The Ruby language version 1.9.3 or newer.", so I'd go with 2.3.0
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[16:49:42] CassioAlmeidas: tbuehlmann: thanks
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[18:32:52] sardaukar: looking for help with a weird issue
[18:33:34] sardaukar: I can't run RSpec features on this new project I've setup (repo is here https://github.com/sardaukar/fuzzy-garbanzo)
[18:33:54] sardaukar: I keep getting 'feature is undefined method'
[18:34:17] sardaukar: but I tried with RSpec.feature and disable_monkey_patching! on config and no show either
[18:34:22] sardaukar: what am I doing wrong?
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[18:35:29] sardaukar: I'm using Rails 5.0 beta 1.1, but I got the same for 4.2.5.1 with this code
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[18:41:37] tbuehlmann: sardaukar, I agree, that's weird
[18:41:47] sardaukar: tbuehlmann: did you check out the repo?
[18:41:52] tbuehlmann: yeah, tried it myself
[18:42:03] sardaukar: I must be doing something wrong somewhere...
[18:42:12] sardaukar: never used spring before - is it that?
[18:42:19] sardaukar: dunno what it does
[18:43:33] tbuehlmann: that keeps a process open so your stuff loads faster
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[18:43:55] tbuehlmann: but that's not it, just tested with $ DISABLE_SPRING=1 bin/rspec
[18:44:20] sardaukar: kinda out of hair to pull :/
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[18:49:00] tbuehlmann: if you want to have feature specs, add the capybara gem to your gemfile
[18:50:44] sardaukar: the docs do mention that :/ my bad
[18:51:01] tbuehlmann: found it there, too :)
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[18:53:31] nmf: hello guys and gals
[18:53:45] arup_r: nmf: hey..
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[19:24:29] nmf: no one actually talking around here ? :p
[19:25:36] arup_r: hey.. nmf I just came.. what you asked again ?
[19:26:20] arup_r: ok.. checked .. u have no question.. hehe
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[19:27:25] smoitra: Hi folks I wrote this I am actually logging my learning experience http://smoitra.com/posts/accessing-db-using-a How I can improve ?
[19:27:36] nmf: nah, i was just getting friendly with the rest of the community! or is this like a questions only channel ?
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[19:28:29] arup_r: nmf: :) no... haha
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[19:30:23] nmf: that's cool! i'm just getting started and web development, and i was in between django, node ( meteorjs ) or rails
[19:30:39] northfurr: HI all! This is a pretty broad question, but I???m creating my first app and hope to push it live pretty soon. In the app I only want users to be able to access their own data. As long as I use a before action requiring a user to login to access all of my controllers actions and always use current_user to build new objects I should be good right?
[19:30:57] nmf: but for some reason rails seemed the better choice. i don't know, something about it just driven me to it!
[19:32:39] smoitra: northfurr: You are doing good
[19:32:45] arup_r: what you meant by saying user should access their own data ?
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[19:33:08] smoitra: nmf: Rails is just fantastic
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[19:35:09] Oog: i have a model MemberSubscriptionCredit belongs_to :user, has_one :price_line. On the User model I want to has_many :member_subscription_credits_unused, -> { where(:price_line => nil) }
[19:35:11] Oog: how can i do that?
[19:35:26] Oog: is it possible?
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[19:38:03] arup_r: Oog: just add class_name: 'MemberSubscriptionCredit' option there
[19:38:14] Oog: no i tried that doesnt work
[19:38:29] Oog: notice the price_line_id column is not on the MemberSubscriptionCredit
[19:38:39] Oog: see it has_one :price_line not belongs_to
[19:38:44] Oog: if it was belongs_to that would work
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[19:40:22] smathy: Oog, includes(:price_line).where(price_lines: { id: nil })
[19:41:23] Oog: nice :) thanks
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[19:41:52] smathy: It's my most highly voted answer on SO: http://stackoverflow.com/a/5570221/152786
[19:42:27] Oog: and now it is +1 more
[19:42:42] arup_r: smathy: Why not joins(), but includes .. what am I missing here.. I was ready to give the same thing with .joins .. :p
[19:43:01] Oog: good question
[19:43:23] arup_r: I saw yours, and got confused.. :)
[19:43:49] Oog: joins doesnt work it does inner join
[19:44:06] arup_r: good.. got light now
[19:44:14] arup_r: I was lost for some moment
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[21:11:48] rhizome: northfurr: one a person logged in can they go to somecontroller/foos/:foo_id_that_they_dont_own?
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[21:13:18] northfurr: rhizome: nope :)
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[22:56:12] NBarnes: I'm having some trouble setting up AJAX logins with Devise. I can log in using AJAX acceptably, but if I provide bad credentials, I appear to be getting an HTTP redirect instead of a JSON response.
[22:56:33] NBarnes: How would I get Devise to respond to a JSON request just with JSON?
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[23:25:21] rhizome: you probably want to add it to a respond_to block
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[23:39:40] pwnd_nsfw: Trying to get an angular/rails + devise setup has been grueling
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