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#elixir-lang - 06 April 2019

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[07:07:53] freedrull: i'm getting this error when deploying my phoenix app to heroku https://gist.github.com/mcfiredrill/2e0c2127171f0dec82454dd8a51c317d
[07:08:21] freedrull: should this line be `supervisor(Chat.Presence)` ? https://github.com/datafruits/hotdog_lounge/blob/master/lib/chat.ex#L17
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[07:40:51] freedrull: think i need to update the buildpack config
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[17:43:30] starbelly: I'm not sure why, but some people tend to think there will be no elixir 2.0 🤔
[17:43:41] starbelly: While others are quite sure, there will be.
[17:51:33] dysfun: i believe the official line is it seems unlikely
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[18:04:03] starbelly: That seems very odd to me
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[18:07:58] starbelly: If we're referring to erlang 2
[18:08:06] starbelly: garret's project I believe
[18:09:00] starbelly: Anyway, elixir 2.0 conversations have come over the past week,
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[18:19:28] nox: Why would it need a new version though?
[18:23:02] tristanm_: to add generics
[18:23:34] nox: tristan__: Elixir already has generics though.
[18:24:04] nox: GenServer
[18:24:05] nox: GenEvent
[18:24:07] nox: GenStage
[18:25:17] starbelly: My hope was that elixir 2.0 would bring about a LOT of changes, that are ya know not backwards compat. Namely, doing away with a good bit.
[18:25:45] starbelly: ACTION crushes his own hopes and dreams
[18:27:06] nox: starbelly: Like what?
[18:29:06] starbelly: nox: That's a huge list I think... but one thing would be doing away with some syntactic sugar I suppose. I would like things to be more simple. I would like to see somehow more of an impedance mismatch between getting going east/fast and being forced to learn what's going on. I would like less abstractions.
[18:29:22] starbelly: Basically, everything that's probably not going to happen :)
[18:29:44] starbelly: But that last one, about learning.... etc. that's a HUGE one imo... I don't know how you solve it, but yeah
[18:30:04] starbelly: It's too easy for people to get going and not know what it is their doing.
[18:30:06] nox: Less abstractions is the best way to make the life of experienced programmers miserable.
[18:30:23] starbelly: ACTION looks over at erlang
[18:30:42] whatyouhide: starbelly: i couldnt tell any actual changes you suggested though 😂
[18:31:11] starbelly: whatyouhide: haha well yeah, these are so high level... they are decomp tickets 🤣
[18:31:34] whatyouhide: we are always open to suggestions
[18:31:54] starbelly: ACTION has lots of unpopular opinions 
[18:32:09] nox: If you look over at Erlang I don't understand what you mean by abstractions then.
[18:32:19] nox: Meta-programming facilities?
[18:32:40] nox: Protocols?
[18:32:48] starbelly: ^ protocols is high up there
[18:33:04] starbelly: meta-programming shouldn't be so easy either
[18:33:12] nox: How are protocols more difficult to understand than any trait-like system in any programming languag?
[18:33:35] starbelly: Not that's not difficult... I just see that as a problem.
[18:33:47] tristanm_: protocols seem nice
[18:33:58] nox: You must really fancy Go then.
[18:34:14] starbelly: No, I fancy erlang :)
[18:35:13] starbelly: In erlang, from where I stand anyway, you just can't get going so fast... you have to understand what's going on. Perhaps this has less to do with elixir itself and more to do with the ecosystem
[18:36:42] starbelly: I'd have to make a proper list of things I would like changed/removed... but eh... I think it would be things that would never be considered.
[18:36:56] starbelly: `cond` should go away IMO
[18:37:17] nox: cond is *missing* in Erlang.
[18:37:30] nox: It's literally a damn keyword.
[18:37:51] starbelly: I just don't know why you'd ever prefer cond over a case expression
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[18:38:17] starbelly: Keep in mind, I started in Elixir... then went to Erlang... now I bounce back and forth :)
[18:38:24] nox: Because real world code often needs to nest 4 cases or more.
[18:38:31] tristanm_: cond is great. wish nox would write the damn EEF :P
[18:38:46] starbelly: If you say so, but gonna disagree there.
[18:38:48] nox: tristan__: I wrote the implementation, you can write the EEP. :D
[18:39:16] tristanm_: words are hard
[18:39:43] starbelly: So, I just should move in with virding... I guess 🤪
[18:39:50] nox: tristan__: Imagine having a volunteer fixing the lexer and everything to teach the compiler to report column numbers,
[18:40:11] nox: and then be willing to implement compiler diagnostics with ranges and better error messages on top of that,
[18:40:15] nox: and just dropping the ball.
[18:41:06] dysfun: nox: you should do all of that for my language
[18:41:32] nox: dysfun: Thanks but no thanks. :D
[18:41:47] dysfun: nox: it's written in rust!
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[18:42:09] nox: dysfun: https://github.com/kevinmehall/codemap-diagnostic
[18:43:12] starbelly: I just care about simplicity, at all levels... I don't care about easy.
[18:43:19] starbelly: easy is a bad word to me now
[18:43:32] starbelly: It leads to ignorance and complication.
[18:45:06] nox: I write a browser, nothing I do is easy. No one mentioned making things easy.
[18:45:55] starbelly: ACTION notes that's not what he means by easy
[18:46:41] dysfun: easy is great
[18:48:51] starbelly: easy != simple ... and I'll shut up now
[18:49:55] nox: Amen to that, but I wasn't even aware that was the topic of the discussion.
[18:50:08] starbelly: Yeah, that's basically where I'm coming from.
[18:50:15] starbelly: ACTION is tired, long week
[18:50:37] nox: I need abstractions to implement complex things, though.
[18:51:41] starbelly: I know... but there has go to be a better way... as far as having those abstractions but also having to understand what's going on.
[18:51:49] starbelly: I don't know what that is.
[18:52:25] starbelly: For every experienced engineer, there's 999 programmers making an absolute mess of the world.
[18:53:47] starbelly: Now some are fine with that... it leads to a lot of consulting money :)
[18:54:08] starbelly: but i'm not... *shrug*
[18:54:09] dysfun: i preferred this place when it was the elixir and rust channel
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[18:54:19] nox: I use abstractions *because* they help me understand what the hell is going on.
[18:55:35] bind: I would argue that it should be easy to invent abstractions then
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[19:05:00] bind: and we are back to lisp/scheme again?
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[22:44:17] askadar: Newbie here. I am trying to transform [2, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2] into [[2], [2, 3, 3], [2, 3, 3, 3], [2], [2]]. Couldn't manage to do so. I tried chunk to no avail. Maybe chunk_while...Any hint?
[22:44:53] edw: Looks like a job for partition-by. Does Elixir have that?
[22:46:11] edw: askadar: Looks like you could use Enum.chunk_by/2.
[22:47:25] askadar: Enum.chunk_by(list, fn x -> x == 2 end) produces [[2, 2], [3, 3], [2], [3, 3, 3], [2, 2]]
[22:47:36] edw: No, that wont work. Looks like you need to use reduce.
[22:48:29] edw: Or unfold. Unfold might be better.
[22:48:37] edw: Toying with the problem at the REPL at the moment.
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[23:04:01] edw: askadar: Before I give you an answer, is this for homework?
[23:05:06] askadar: No, it is not.
[23:06:21] edw: OK. I'm going to be trusting and assume I'm not frustrating someone's pedagogic ends.
[23:06:25] edw: Give this a try:
[23:06:54] edw: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6UM2NMnV/
[23:07:07] askadar: I am trying to create a ToC through heading tags (h2 and h3) collected by Floki.find
[23:07:33] edw: Oh, I get it. That'a cool.
[23:09:34] ariedler: could have used chunk_while as well; but I find it just as clean
[23:10:23] askadar: Works seamlessly. Thanks a bunch @edw
[23:10:27] edw: Ah, I didn't see that. I was looking for something more reduce-y.
[23:10:39] edw: askadar, you're welcome.
[23:13:25] ariedler: https://dpaste.de/jcW3 is the chunk_while method
[23:14:24] ariedler: as i said not as clear as the reduce method lol
[23:14:29] edw: Wow that cure is worse about as bad as the disease.
[23:16:13] askadar: I cannot grasp the accumulator mechanism. It's just too complex to me. Love pattern matching tho. Thanks @ariedler btw
[23:16:42] ariedler: no problem; yeah the accumulator mechanism is something you get use to with time. hence why I said the fold/reduce is much simpler
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[23:18:23] edw: The cognitive load of remembering all these fancy special case fns is often heavier than just pounding out a reduce once you get the hang of it.
[23:18:37] askadar: both snippets are very instructive, thanks again
[23:19:11] edw: Np, askadar.
[23:19:45] edw: I feel like I did the first time asked me for directions in New York.
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[23:26:39] ariedler: isn't new york all numbered streets?
[23:50:41] edw: ariedler: In much of Manhattan above 14th St, yes. I live on Charles St the West Village, Manhattan. To the south is 10th St, Christopher St, Barrow St. To the north is Perry St, then 11th. West: Hudson St, Greenwich St, Washington St. East: Bleecker St, West 4th St, 7th Avenue. Other boroughs offer differing levels of craziness. E.g. In Brooklyn, there's a N 2nd St, a S 2nd St, and a plain old 2nd St. None of them touch.
[23:51:17] ariedler: okay, yeah I would be lost lol