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#elixir-lang - 10 April 2019

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[02:46:18] mdbm: can't believe it's that hard to install Elixir on CentOS 7 :'(
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[05:02:14] josevalim: mdbm: the instructions on the website are not up to date?
[05:04:07] mdbm: josevalim, no instructions whatsoever for CentOS 7: https://elixir-lang.org/install.html#unix-and-unix-like (I know that CentOS 7 is known for having only old packages available, but it would be nice to have some "official" instructions for installing, and further updating)
[05:04:54] mdbm: there are some blogpost showing how to install erlang/elixir but it seems so complicated and they use different dependencies sometimes in the post
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[05:36:02] sms: Sounds like more of an issue with your understanding of installing packages on CentOS than it does a lack of documentation mdbm
[05:36:14] sms: https://www.vultr.com/docs/how-to-install-the-phoenix-framework-on-centos-7
[05:36:15] sms: This looks fine
[05:36:18] sms: How is this complicated
[05:37:43] OliverMT: starbelly: with the new composable queries in ecto I havent yet had the need to go pure sql.. when they released the named joins I even transformed a 1200 line SQL string concatenator search service into about 350 lines of pure ecto with typed goodness
[05:37:57] mdbm: sms sorry then... e.g. I'm confused when I see one blog post use http://packages.erlang-solutions.com/erlang-solutions-1.0-1.noarch.rpm, and the other http://packages.erlang-solutions.com/site/esl/esl-erlang/FLAVOUR_1_general/esl-erlang_20.0-1~centos~7_amd64.rpm
[05:38:44] mdbm: what is erlang-solutions 1.0.1...? how is it different than the package found here: https://packages.erlang-solutions.com/erlang/ (click CentOS)
[05:38:56] sms: mdbm: Just different versions
[05:38:59] sms: mdbm: https://www.erlang-solutions.com/resources/download.html
[05:39:05] sms: You could just use the latest from here
[05:39:14] sms: There's a CentOS tab right there
[05:39:33] mdbm: sms, yes, I don't even see 1.0.1, what is this version number?
[05:39:46] mdbm: it's very different from 20.x
[05:40:47] sms: Not sure
[05:41:52] Nicd-: the 1.0.1 package is not erlang
[05:42:09] Nicd-: it installs the erlang solutions repositories to your system. then you can install erlang via those repos
[05:42:31] sms: Oh that's for the repo
[05:43:18] sms: Just use the repo
[05:43:21] sms: Then you can update with yum
[05:43:25] mdbm: thank you:)
[05:45:02] Nicd-: elixir is easy to compile from source too, if you can't find an up to date package (it just requires recent erlang)
[05:45:32] josevalim: If somebody can submit a pull request to the Elixir website with instructions it would be very appreciated!
[05:47:10] sms: I'll let Nicd- grab that one
[05:47:18] Nicd-: I don't use CentOS :D
[05:47:51] Nicd-: I compile from source anyway and for some reason people don't like that
[05:47:51] sms: Me neither
[05:47:56] sms: What do you use
[05:48:06] Nicd-: Arch Linux in production ;)
[05:48:15] sms: Living life on the bleeding edge
[05:48:18] Nicd-: maybe Ubuntu Server soon for stability 🤷
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[05:49:44] sms: I use Ubuntu for other stuff yeah
[05:49:46] sms: I like it
[05:49:58] sms: Makes for a good server
[05:50:01] sms: Notsomuch a desktop
[05:50:42] mdbm: Nicd-, would you suggest me to install erlang or esl-erlang?
[05:51:10] Nicd-: no idea what the difference is
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[05:53:05] sms: What have you been up to lately Nicd-
[05:53:30] Nicd-: programming, plus I bought an electric bicycle
[05:53:49] sms: Sounds great
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[05:53:52] sms: Electric bike would be fun
[05:54:03] Nicd-: I can attest to the fun aspect
[05:54:07] sms: Been thinking of pulling my bike out
[05:54:15] sms: Although it's a manual
[05:54:47] sms: Needs maintenance to which is a pain
[05:54:52] Nicd-: nothing wrong with a normal bike :) I only got it so I could go places like work without sweating. when I exercise I turn the assist low or off
[05:56:02] sms: Yeah I'd like that to, turn it into a commuter
[05:56:12] sms: I'd probably ride a lot more if I knew I didn't have to pedal up every hill
[05:56:21] sms: Downhill or flat isn't bad though
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[05:58:05] kapil____: https://gist.github.com/kapilpipaliya/ce8f8ea304ac6a24348a240b2b7d7a04
[05:58:12] Nicd-: I have a 12 % grade hill in the way, kind of kills motivation
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[05:58:20] kapil____: why line 10 redirect to different path?
[05:58:53] Nicd-: line 10 doesn't redirect, it renders HTML as output
[05:59:41] sms: Nicd-: Yeah there's some crazy hills here to
[05:59:45] Nicd-: do you mean to have `{:error, %Ecto.Changeset{} = changeset} ->` instead on line 8?
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[05:59:53] kapil____: the form is on `/master_franchises/new` but when error happens it shows same form on `accounts`
[05:59:56] sms: Last summer I was getting pretty good at them
[06:00:00] sms: But they take a lot out of you either way
[06:00:43] kapil____: Nicd-: no, i have different function that return {:ok, %Ecto.Changeset{} = changeset} on line 8
[06:00:48] Nicd-: yeah no one can get up this hill next to my house without sweating and I don't want to have to shower at work. there's a downhill skiing and skijumping center in the same hill :D
[06:01:10] kapil____: Nicd-: which country you are from?
[06:01:15] sms: That sucks it's on the way there, mine is on the way back
[06:01:46] kapil____: Nicd-: what a nice country!
[06:01:48] OliverMT: cant you just chug a bottle of finnish vodka on the way Nicd-
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[06:02:04] Nicd-: so I'd arrive to work sweaty _and_ drunk, flawless plan
[06:02:09] Nicd-: if I'd arrive at all :D
[06:02:24] sms: Blood thinners before cardio is always nice
[06:02:32] OliverMT: people will notice natural finnish smell of vodka instead of sweat
[06:02:32] OliverMT: solve it culturally
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[06:02:50] Nicd-: I know the vodka thing is a joke but it's pretty rare in fact
[06:03:04] Nicd-: mostly just beer and long drink here
[06:03:06] kapil____: do not drink alcohol please
[06:04:04] kapil____: Nicd-: hello, line 10 is rendering but its changing path
[06:04:13] Nicd-: I think this is the most popular alcoholic drink in Finland: https://www.alko.fi/tuotteet/000026/Original-Long-Drink
[06:04:39] Nicd-: kapil____: rendering doesn't change the path
[06:04:45] Nicd-: there's something else going on then
[06:05:47] OliverMT: I love that url
[06:05:58] kapil____: i have this at router:
[06:05:58] kapil____: https://gist.github.com/kapilpipaliya/2c3989d4da9227ca5769f9cca0285b41
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[06:06:29] kapil____: i am submiting form from :mf_new
[06:06:40] Nicd-: OliverMT: Alko is the Finnish alcohol monopoly
[06:07:04] Nicd-: kapil____: and after submitting your URL is different?
[06:07:39] kapil____: yes its /accounts
[06:08:08] Nicd-: did you check if your code actually goes to line 10?
[06:08:10] kapil____: at line 10 on first gist
[06:08:44] Nicd-: you should paste the whole controller
[06:08:55] Nicd-: do you have any javascript on the site that can do redirects?
[06:09:17] kapil____: https://gist.github.com/kapilpipaliya/7079852200690d78ff0e6cb3dc2c3c3e
[06:10:08] kapil____: no, i am just using phoneix templates
[06:10:18] Nicd-: what, that's not the whole controller :D
[06:10:48] sms: Probably what Nicd said it's not hitting that line
[06:12:03] kapil____: https://gist.github.com/kapilpipaliya/7faec36a89702e929122562199671489
[06:13:16] kapil____: line 188 redirect to different routes
[06:13:41] sms: That's quite a bit of logic you got going in your controller there
[06:14:24] kapil____: mf_create calls create fuction, but when error happens it redirect url to "/accounts" path with same form
[06:15:03] Nicd-: looks to me like it hits line 183 insetad
[06:15:07] Nicd-: and that redirects to index
[06:15:27] Nicd-: yeah that controller is doing way too many things
[06:16:32] kapil____: no, {:ok, %Ecto.Changeset{} = changeset} is matched
[06:17:22] Nicd-: how have you checked that?
[06:17:35] kapil____: yes , i put IEx.pry after that it stop there
[06:18:16] kapil____: i put IEx.pry on line 185
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[06:18:56] kapil____: pry(1)> `conn.path_info`
[06:19:01] kapil____: ["accounts"]
[06:19:12] Nicd-: did you submit that form from /accounts?
[06:19:36] sms: Yeah what
[06:19:41] sms: Where are you submitting from
[06:19:46] kapil____: i has `<%= form_for @changeset, @action, [multipart: true, id: "account_form"], fn f -> %>`
[06:19:51] kapil____: in template
[06:20:43] sms: Why are you submitting the account_form to the entity_controller
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[06:21:20] kapil____: and @action is :
[06:21:22] kapil____: `<%= render "form.html", Map.put(assigns, :action, RoutesSub.entity_path(@conn, :create)) %>`
[06:22:22] Nicd-: uhh, @action should be a string
[06:22:26] kapil____: sms: its entity_form but I just name it Account on template
[06:22:39] Nicd-: what you are pasting makes no sense
[06:22:46] sms: Yeah, I don't know
[06:34:43] kapil____: hello form is rendered: `<form accept-charset="UTF-8" action="/accounts" ...</form>`
[06:34:47] kapil____: is it wrong?
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[06:36:18] Nicd-: well that will post to /accounts
[06:38:54] kapil____: how to change that?
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[07:34:21] mdbm_: can I ask you what IEx prints for you if you type 'Français' ?
[07:35:17] Nicd-: `[70, 114, 97, 110, 231, 97, 105, 115]`
[07:36:18] mdbm_: Nicd-, thank you, so typing "Français" prints "Français", but typing 'Français' actually prints the list of codepoints
[07:36:19] mdbm_: Nicd- I had read somewhere that if you have a list of printable codepoints, it will display the characters. So it doesn't... confused
[07:36:35] Nicd-: it has deemed ç as unprintable
[07:37:07] Nicd-: I think the printability criteria just accounts for basic ASCII
[07:37:23] mdbm_: Nicd-, you are right, because if I type 'Fan' it prints 'Fan' (not the list). Why did it consider ç as non-printable? Then what is a printable character? only a ASCII codepoint?
[07:37:29] mdbm_: Nicd-, ahh
[07:38:56] Nicd-: usually you avoid charlists in Elixir so this isn't much of an issue
[07:39:20] mdbm_: Nicd-, thanks good to know, I am only learning right now:)
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[07:40:11] sms: mdbm_: You should checkout https://pragprog.com/book/elixir/programming-elixir
[07:40:24] sms: I liked it
[07:40:34] mdbm_: sms, I am learning though this book
[07:40:50] sms: Oh nice
[07:40:55] sms: It goes into charlists/strings at some point
[07:41:15] sms: A couple times
[07:41:40] mdbm_: yep. but it lacks useful information such as Nicd- mentions. " usually you avoid charlists in Elixir so this isn't much of an issue" I would love to have more info like that, get more of the reality
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[07:42:10] sms: I feel like it goes without saying, no?
[07:42:17] sms: If you want to print something you use a string
[07:42:23] sms: Why would you use a charlist for that
[07:42:57] mdbm_: sms no idea man, jsut learning. why not. so different from other languages
[07:43:41] sms: It touches on it again later in the book as well I believe when it gets into bitstrings
[07:43:57] sms: Should make more sense then
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[07:46:58] dysfun: don't use charlists unless the library you need to use requires them
[07:47:06] dysfun: they're hurrendously inefficient in time and space
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[08:00:37] Nicd-: mdbm_: basically charlists are Erlang strings. but Elixir has a different way of looking at strings (binary UTF-8 encoded data), so in Elixir we use Elixir strings and for talking to some Erlang libraries we have to use charlists
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[08:11:34] kapil____: I made a CRUD table for a resource. i want to add search filter on table. how to do it?
[08:11:56] dysfun: the filter is part of a query, not a table
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[08:14:34] sms: Nicd-: Did you make that elixir.career site?
[08:16:10] kapil____: dysfun: thanks
[08:16:40] serafeim: that site has like 42 external deps (that are blocked through uMatrix) :|
[08:17:07] sms: Yeah, really not a fan of it
[08:17:37] CornishPasty: lol it's hotlinking all the images serafeim
[08:17:38] sms: Although I'm guessing the deps are just externally hosted images
[08:18:12] serafeim: well yes but why 42 deps? aren't the images hosted on a single site (github?)
[08:18:31] CornishPasty: Nah, I assume when you post a job you just get a free-form image URL input
[08:19:22] serafeim: ok that makes sense
[08:19:57] CornishPasty: Why do you have to login to even view job specs though
[08:20:29] sms: Yeah, can't delete your profile either
[08:20:32] sms: Or filter old jobs
[08:20:38] sms: It's basically a long page of every job post ever made
[08:20:44] sms: Saw one from 2016 on there
[08:20:48] dysfun: so it's basically illegal under GDPR
[08:21:05] dysfun: obviously that's where i'll look for my next job
[08:21:15] sms: Yeah I didn't realize until I signed up
[08:21:20] sms: Kind of annoyed by it actually
[08:21:40] dysfun: well, you're entitled to write them a snotty email
[08:22:18] dysfun: hmm, i've never actually applied to an elixir job. i got mine by accident
[08:22:26] sms: Lucky guy
[08:22:27] serafeim: is it written in elixir at least ?
[08:22:33] sms: It is, yeah
[08:22:41] serafeim: well that's something
[08:23:33] sms: dysfun: How'd you end up accidentally getting an Elixir gig
[08:23:34] serafeim: sms, how can you tell though ? because of the disclaimer in the footer ?
[08:23:40] dysfun: sms: three elixir gigs, you mean
[08:23:59] dysfun: well one of them, i hung out in here
[08:24:12] sms: serafeim: Powered By Phoenix Framework, Semantic UI and RethinkDB.
[08:24:25] dysfun: and i got my current one through there
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[08:24:53] dysfun: and the other one i snuck it in to replace their awful python that kept falling over
[08:25:02] sms: dysfun: Oh wait
[08:25:12] sms: Weren't you the one talking about your client switching from Django because of DRF
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[08:25:29] sms: Yeah I remember that
[08:25:30] serafeim_: also that site seems to be using rethinkdb. is there a particular advantage ?
[08:25:48] serafeim_: it seems that rethinkdb is useful for real-time apps. why should a job board use it ?
[08:26:02] sms: I've only landed one gig through IRC
[08:26:04] dysfun: because people like playing with new shiny
[08:26:08] serafeim_: why not a traditional sql db?
[08:26:15] dysfun: heh, i landed my other current gig in irc too
[08:26:20] sms: And it was from someone who constantly annoyed me
[08:26:22] serafeim_: dysfun, l o l isn't elixir shiniy enough ?
[08:26:26] sms: Like PMing me all day
[08:26:28] sms: Asking for updates
[08:26:45] sms: "Same as an hour ago, just getting the login working"
[08:27:09] dysfun: serafeim_: *shrug* it's a comment of how things are, not how they should be
[08:28:41] dysfun: but you know, phoenix is designed with realtime apps in mind too
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[08:34:16] Nicd-: sms: no I didn't make that site
[08:34:50] sms: Sorry Nicd- word has already spread around IRC that you're the owner of an illegal website by GDPR's standards
[08:36:03] dysfun: shame on you Nicd-
[08:36:20] Nicd-: that's ironic considering that I have spent extra care on my real site wrt privacy issues
[08:36:39] dysfun: such double standards
[08:36:46] serafeim: well gdpr is a bunch of cr@p so i don't think it matters that much
[08:36:55] sms: GDPR is great
[08:36:57] dysfun: gdpr is not a bunch of crap
[08:37:12] sms: You should 100% be in control of your data
[08:37:19] serafeim: i am from an EU country and work at a public sector organization
[08:37:35] serafeim: do you know where we've written the GDRP ?
[08:38:04] serafeim: gdpr has good intentions but bad application
[08:38:24] dysfun: how terrible, public sector orgs having to treat data with due care and attention
[08:38:26] serafeim: it could be something great but is a piece of sh1t like everything that has been born from EU
[08:38:56] Nicd-: I actually built a privacy policy enforcer for my site, when the policy changes you are offered the choice to accept or delete your account with a generated diff of the policy. I think it has data export in the same dialog too, or if not then I should add that
[08:38:59] dysfun: yeah let's not have this whole discussion
[08:39:07] serafeim: yes ok politics is not good
[08:39:15] CornishPasty: Nicd-: that sounds like a good idea
[08:39:21] Nicd-: Elixir generates the diffs for me when compiling using git :)
[08:39:32] CornishPasty: open source? :P
[08:40:02] Nicd-: https://gitlab.com/code-stats/code-stats/blob/master/lib/code_stats/legal_terms.ex
[08:40:59] mdbm_: Nicd-, I'm learning about Tuples, Lists, Keyword Lists and Maps. Are some of these structures not really used (such as the charlists vs strings)
[08:41:11] Nicd-: those are all used
[08:41:22] mdbm_: Nicd-, what about Atoms? they are omnipresent I guess
[08:41:39] Nicd-: things not really used except when talking to Erlang: charlists and records
[08:41:48] mdbm_: alright:)
[08:41:51] Nicd-: atoms are everywhere
[08:41:51] dysfun: mdbm_: atoms are those :foo things
[08:41:57] CornishPasty: Such a simple thing, such a terrible thing
[08:42:14] dysfun: mdbm_: they are stored in a global table which is never garbage collected, so don't dynamically generate them
[08:42:25] dysfun: mdbm_: however, the reason for this table is they're fast and get replaced with integers
[08:42:33] dysfun: under the hood
[08:42:42] mdbm_: dysfun, when is this table constructed?
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[08:42:53] dysfun: as new atoms are created
[08:42:59] dysfun: so often when loading code files
[08:43:08] dysfun: but also, there are functions for creatings atoms from strings
[08:43:14] dysfun: things like that
[08:43:24] CornishPasty: module names are atoms
[08:43:30] dysfun: indeed, and function names
[08:43:55] mdbm_: dysfun, you said not to dynamically generate them. However, they are created when declaring new atoms + you can create an atom from a string.
[08:43:56] dysfun: and this is fine, because you will never fill the atom table on these alone, just don't generate new atoms from strings
[08:44:17] CornishPasty: By "dynamically generating", dysfun means using String.to_atom(user_input)
[08:44:49] dysfun: if you fill the table (i think it's limited to 0.5million by default?), you get a crash
[08:44:54] mdbm_: ah cause they are never garbage collected:) got it
[08:44:57] dysfun: of the whole vm, not just the process
[08:44:58] Nicd-: CornishPasty: this is roughly what my privacy policy change page looks like (never mind the silly diff here): https://files.gitter.im/code-stats/Lobby/11pi/884a09cd-cfbb-4b24-b492-18cc2ab9f99a.png
[08:45:10] dysfun: so don't dynamically generate
[08:45:20] dysfun: and if you do, be really careful about controlling it
[08:45:30] dysfun: (yes, of course there are some legit reasons)
[08:46:04] dysfun: you can also increase the table size with a flag when starting up
[08:46:43] dysfun: this was useful for testing lisp flavoured erlang, which had some property tests which generated atoms
[08:47:29] CornishPasty: Nicd-: how did you make it so slow? :P
[08:47:49] Nicd-: oh dear :D
[08:48:14] Nicd-: in prod it's about 4-6 ms
[08:48:31] Nicd-: profile page is very slow due to insufficient I/O on the server, though. moving to a new server soon
[08:50:06] sms: Nicd-: That looks nice
[08:50:14] sms: I like the git style line changes
[08:52:09] Nicd-: I am very proud of that :) and I pay a lot of attention to privacy matters to make it as friendly as possible to my users
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[08:58:57] mrus: does anyone here have experience with running mnesia on nerves? I'm struggling with a weird issue: https://pastebin.com/XtnMvbma
[08:59:26] mrus: Mnesia seems to be running just fine, however, create_table hangs and won't do anything.
[09:00:52] Nicd-: I use Amnesia wrapper but I had to do this: https://gitlab.com/Nicd/duck-tag/blob/master/lib/db/manager.ex#L115-139
[09:00:56] mrus: Running Mnesia with disc_copies and its directory being set to /root/mnesia_disc_dump - however, while the process is running I cannot see the directory has been created. /root/ however is writable by the process.
[09:01:19] Nicd-: I only had mem copies though
[09:01:44] mrus: so you basically restart mnesia once?
[09:02:14] Nicd-: I can't help beyond what it says there :D
[09:02:23] Nicd-: that's what I arrived at through trial and error
[09:04:50] mrus: that's funny. In a weird way this really helps
[09:05:19] mrus: :mnesia.stop(), :mnesia.start() and then create_table works just fine
[09:05:53] mrus: Nicd-: thank you for that
[09:06:02] Nicd-: happy that it helped!
[09:06:14] mrus: however, there's gotta be a reason for this... usually mnesia doesn't work like that.
[09:06:14] Nicd-: this is why I write even silly things as open source :)
[09:06:36] Nicd-: maybe you can find the true reason
[09:06:42] Nicd-: the hero we need
[09:07:16] mrus: it feels like a race condition, where nerves boots in a way that it's not fully ready for what mnesia needs, while mnesia was already initialized.
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[09:13:16] mdbm_: I don't understand what "sigils" are for; seems like a concept familiar for ruby developers. what are they used for?
[09:15:30] Nicd-: basically they are syntax sugar that is compiled to something that would be less nice to type/read
[09:16:15] Nicd-: ~D[2017-05-07] is compiled into a Date.new("2017-05-07") for example I believe. or if you have a string that has both " and ', you can use ~s(my"string') so you don't need to escape either
[09:16:37] mdbm_: Nicd-, thanks, so I guess you use them a lot
[09:23:04] CornishPasty: Having used mnesia before in production, I'd advise against it :P
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[09:33:53] Nicd-: mdbm_: I use them when they are suitable :)
[09:34:25] dysfun: CornishPasty: which things annoyed you?
[09:34:36] dysfun: i mean, there's plenty to be annoyed about, i'm just curious ;)
[09:34:42] Nicd-: mdbm_: for example this earlier link: https://gitlab.com/code-stats/code-stats/blob/master/lib/code_stats/legal_terms.ex#L22
[09:34:42] CornishPasty: dysfun: nothing really annoyed me, per se
[09:34:49] CornishPasty: It just... sometimes didn't work
[09:35:01] CornishPasty: And when it failed, it failed spectacularly
[09:35:13] dysfun: yes, it's a bit like that
[09:35:20] CornishPasty: Well, I say I used it, someone else wrote the code and I had to support it on call :P
[09:36:39] CornishPasty: Getting called at 3 in the morning because mnesia had netsplit and decided it was going to take over the world
[09:38:18] mdbm_: Nicd-, thanks:)
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[09:38:56] mdbm_: Nicd-, can I ask you if you use the "with" expression a lot?
[09:39:10] mdbm_: I'm learning now about that but it seems jsut one way to write something among other ways
[09:39:36] Nicd-: it's useful: https://gitlab.com/code-stats/code-stats/blob/master/lib/code_stats_web/controllers/pulse_controller.ex#L55-58
[09:39:42] Nicd-: it avoids conditional pyramids
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[09:44:53] gonz_: It's a nice expression of the "happy path", i.e. "If everything goes well, here's how it looks"
[09:46:20] gonz_: Partly, I think it's because it consolidates it and puts it first, so people can see some kind of pseudo-ideal case first
[09:46:28] gonz_: And then they can look into the things that can fail
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[09:47:03] gonz_: Mentally, it's what people usually do anyway, but without these kinds of facilities you have to parse it out of disjointed conditionals, etc.
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[09:47:41] Nicd-: yeah it's useful to see the happy path with a glance
[09:51:50] gonz_: The concept itself is sometimes expressed as a "monad", which generalizes the idea and removes the need for special syntax for it
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[09:53:42] gonz_: It's a weak-ish analog, but they practically solve the same problem in certain contexts
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[11:47:52] kapil____: how to preload association of chageset data?
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[12:03:35] ankhers: kapil____: As in you have an Ecto.Changeset struct and you want to preload the assoc?
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[12:22:14] mrus: I think either the Elixir integration with Mnesia is broken, or Mnesia is broken altogether. It seems impossible to get disc_copies running reliably.
[12:24:46] mrus: I have a version running that uses the hack described by Nicd- before (restarting Mnesia before actually using it). However, as soon as I set `dir` in config.ex - even if I set it to the *very same* directory Mnesia was using by itself, it stops working again.
[12:25:18] mrus: I'm starting to wonder if anyone ever actually used the disc_copies feature of Mnesia. Like, really used, in production.
[12:25:42] Nicd-: You might want to ask the nerves channel on Slack if it's nerves related
[12:25:55] Nicd-: If you were using nerves
[12:25:58] mrus: Nicd-: nah, I'm having this issue on my desktop as well.
[12:27:00] mrus: I just find it hard to believe that Mnesia is really *that* bad... because.. it's being used in Erlang ever since, right? Hence I was wondering if anyone here does know a bit aboout the integration with Elixir?
[12:28:15] mrus: Because it does look like ELixir does a few things here and there... e.g. the tables that are being created seem to be scoped to `Elixir.Tablename`.
[12:28:15] Nicd-: there is no "integration" though
[12:28:37] Nicd-: Elixir runs on the BEAM so it runs the same code as Erlang would, it's using the Erlang libraries directly
[12:28:54] Nicd-: your table names are probably like this: Foo, that's an alias in Elixir for the atom :"Elixir.Foo"
[12:29:06] mrus: ah, I see
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[12:29:34] mrus: so... it's really Mnesia that's *that bad*? :)
[12:30:45] Nicd-: I'd say if mnesia disc_copies was broken, it would have been noticed already
[12:30:56] Nicd-: for example WhatsApp is a big user of mnesia
[12:31:08] Nicd-: that said, I don't know enough about it to help you
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[12:31:26] Nicd-: might be worth it to write a detailed post on the forum
[12:31:42] Nicd-: last I tried, the mnesia channel on the Elixir Slack was very dead
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[12:42:20] OliverMT: this works from iex: :mimemail.encode({"text", "html", headers, [{"charset", "utf-8"}], "asdfæø"})
[12:42:26] OliverMT: notice the æøå
[12:42:44] OliverMT: if I type æøå in web gui, pass it in through graphql and pass that string to the mail client, it fails
[12:42:50] OliverMT: anyone got a clue where to start?
[12:45:39] dysfun: aeo, not aeoa
[12:49:30] Nicd-: OliverMT: IO.inspect on every stage of that pipeline ;) but probably start at the call to `:mimemail.encode`
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[12:52:43] OliverMT: it's something with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0A
[12:53:26] OliverMT: this is very weird
[12:53:32] OliverMT: if I have both \n AND æøå
[12:53:34] OliverMT: it goes boom
[12:55:07] OliverMT: Nicd-: https://gist.github.com/olivermt/e4895fd9755af558bebe29d7a3edea5c
[12:55:53] Nicd-: bug in mimemail?
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[12:56:14] kapil____: Ankhers: yes, i have Ecto.Changeset. and I want to preload assoc in it and also preload assoc in assoc.
[12:56:42] ankhers: mrus: I haven't used mnesia much, but remember that Elixir "strings" are Erlang <<"binaries">>. You may need to use Elixir's 'charlists' to get and Erlang "string".
[12:57:16] ankhers: kapil____: Can you preload the assoc before you turn it into a changeset?
[12:57:34] mrus: Ankhers: this is a very good hint I'm trying right now! Thank you.
[12:58:00] Nicd-: OliverMT: maybe you need to tell it it's UTF-8?
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[12:59:09] OliverMT: and it works with øæå without \n
[12:59:15] OliverMT: I'm just gonna port this to bamboo
[12:59:17] OliverMT: been two years overdue
[13:00:03] Nicd-: was the "works in iex" just a red herring?
[13:01:07] OliverMT: I mean if you look at my code
[13:01:11] OliverMT: I am explicitly passing utf8
[13:01:24] OliverMT: and no, if I copy what comes out of IO inspect into iex
[13:01:30] Nicd-: yes but maybe you need to tell the Erlang library that this is UTF-8 binary data
[13:01:33] OliverMT: it also fails when there are both newlines and øæå
[13:01:44] OliverMT: that is what I am doing
[13:01:47] OliverMT: it's a parameter
[13:01:55] Nicd-: that's only a header
[13:01:57] OliverMT: charset is actually respected
[13:02:01] OliverMT: no, the headers are in the headers
[13:02:35] Nicd-: you lost me. but whatever
[13:02:40] Nicd-: I have no further ideas :P
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[13:05:04] OliverMT: bamboo port will work
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[13:33:53] mrus: What's the proper way of having an integers list (`[227, 255, 0, 0]`) converted into a bitstring like `<<0xE3,0xFF,0x00,0x00>`?
[13:38:29] mrus: `for i <- [227,255,0,0], do: <<i::8>>, into: <<>>` seems to be the only way I can find
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[13:44:21] josevalim: mrus: see the binary module
[13:44:35] josevalim: There is a list_to_bin function
[13:44:44] mrus: oh nice, thanks!
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[15:00:28] mkaito: if I wanted to write a discord bot in elixir, which library should I be using? I've found alchemy, coxir and nostrum.
[15:02:35] OliverMT: 30 min of work later and I've fully moved it all to Bamboo and decreased code with like 50% :D
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[15:23:40] mdbm: could anyone explain the warning message: warning: the variable "line_no" is unsafe as it has been set inside one of:
[15:23:40] mdbm: case, cond, receive, if, and, or, &&, ||. Please explicitly return the
[15:23:40] mdbm: variable value instead.
[15:23:43] mdbm: https://pastebin.com/raw/dHKdiU9e
[15:23:52] mdbm: I still don't get it
[15:24:04] OliverMT: first of all, upgrade your elixir
[15:24:09] OliverMT: that code wont run in newer versions
[15:24:17] OliverMT: and the reason its not safe is that inner scopes cant affect outer scopes in elixir
[15:24:24] OliverMT: if blocks were not properly scoped before
[15:24:48] OliverMT: or.. "properly scoped".. is that the right explanation josevalim ?
[15:25:00] mdbm: OliverMT, it's from a book; i'm just learning but it's not clear.
[15:25:11] mdbm: OliverMT, what is considered "risky" here?
[15:25:18] mdbm: OliverMT, "blocks were not properly scoped before" ?
[15:25:21] OliverMT: the point in FP is that you are always safe to pass a value in somewhere
[15:25:30] OliverMT: in this context you "pass" line_no into the scope of the if block
[15:25:37] OliverMT: and it modifies it
[15:25:44] OliverMT: in newer elixir that will warn (I think) and the value will always be 50
[15:25:47] OliverMT: no matter what you do in the if
[15:26:18] OliverMT: the idiomatic elixir is line_no = 50
[15:26:23] OliverMT: then late ryou do
[15:26:35] OliverMT: line_no = if .... do ... your code to get new value... end
[15:26:37] mdbm: OliverMT, I would understand if this value is passed to a function, and that function modifies it, that it's a bad practice (unpure function). But here it's just code in the same function or whatever, I don't really get the bad practice
[15:26:44] OliverMT: rebinding line_no to the right value
[15:26:48] OliverMT: it's just about being consistent
[15:26:57] OliverMT: if scope is supposed to be like def scope
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[15:31:22] mdbm: OliverMT, thanks I guess I will copy/paste this chat somewhere and get back to it with a little more experience :'D to my understanding, blocks can also be considered "unpure" just as we know "unpure functions", only for a matter of consistency
[15:37:12] nox: Blocks?
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[15:40:36] mdbm: nox, e.g. if...do...end
[15:41:04] mdbm: nox, the book Programming Elixir uses the word "block". wrong?
[15:41:31] nox: The purity part is what confuses me.
[15:41:45] mdbm: nox, why?
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[15:55:04] benwilson512: mdbm: what does a block being pure or impure mean
[15:55:13] benwilson512: blocks are a compile time way of representing code
[15:55:21] benwilson512: when you're calling stuff you just have functions
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[15:56:30] benwilson512: mdbm: I see what you mean about other constructs like `if `having blocks but
[15:56:40] benwilson512: again that's just a code organization / metaprogramming thing, it doesn't change the properties of the code itself
[15:57:48] benwilson512: data structures passed to functions can't be modified, the presence or absence of blocks don't change that
[15:59:15] nox: benwilson512: Can't be modified you say? https://gist.github.com/nox/6073337 :P
[15:59:40] benwilson512: nox: ok ok I didn't account for hipe
[16:00:03] Nicd-: nox you are so dirty
[16:00:08] benwilson512: I was hoping my "data structures" language would be sufficiently precise because it avoids the pdict / atomics and :erlang.unique_integer
[16:00:17] benwilson512: which are all impure but aren't datastructures (at least within Elixir / Erlang)
[16:00:17] nox: Nicd-: Like a NIF?
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[16:00:28] nox: benwilson512: I was just being silly. :)
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[16:02:53] Nicd-: nox: dirtier than that
[16:03:06] nox: Nicd-: Like Dirty Dancing?
[16:03:29] Nicd-: though I use the process dictionary for storing stuff so I shouldn't talk
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[16:05:19] nox: Nicd-: So casul, you should be using HiPE arrays.
[16:05:29] Nicd-: I don't have hipe :(
[16:06:37] lpil: Atomics are mutable, right? :)
[16:06:48] lpil: Very limited though
[16:07:03] Nicd-: yes that was mentioned
[16:07:12] nox: Atomics?
[16:07:28] benwilson512: nox: there are BIFs now for atomic counters
[16:07:41] nox: Woweewowow
[16:07:42] lpil: http://erlang.org/doc/man/atomics.html
[16:07:47] benwilson512: nox: http://erlang.org/doc/man/atomics.html
[16:07:51] benwilson512: ah man I'm too slow
[16:07:51] tristanm_: how did you miss that nox
[16:07:52] lpil: It's pretty cool!
[16:08:00] nox: benwilson512: I appreciate the fact that I was told of this today,
[16:08:08] Nicd-: no actually it's this: http://images.evo.com/imgp/1500/9253/166550/atomic-metron-m10-skis-neox-412-bindings-2007.jpg
[16:08:09] nox: I made a PR to Rayon to *remove* some atomics usage from it.
[16:08:15] nox: Literally this morning.
[16:08:24] benwilson512: atomic arrays too
[16:08:25] lpil: How come?
[16:08:38] nox: How come what?
[16:08:56] lpil: Why the removal?
[16:09:13] nox: Because why you an atomic integer when you can use a plain old integer.
[16:09:18] nox: s/you/use/
[16:09:26] Nicd-: atomic is cooler
[16:09:27] lpil: A great point :)
[16:09:43] lpil: But yeah you're losing hipster points
[16:09:47] nox: The real reason is that if this wasn't doable,
[16:09:56] nox: my rayon-related project would be just wrong from start to finish.
[16:10:05] nox: So I wanted to validate that it's indeed doable.
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[16:20:32] mdbm: benwilson512, "data structures passed to functions can't be modified" yeah but I was talking about if...do...end, or these are functions in elixir?
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[16:26:14] za1b1tsu: anybody know of Ruby's titleize method alternative in Elixir?
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[16:35:58] gamache_: za1b1tsu: maybe `str |> String.split(" ") |> Enum.map(&String.capitalize/1) |> Enum.join(" ")` ?
[16:36:26] gamache_: I don't think anyone's ported this part of Rails over to Elixir yet :)
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[19:36:22] gamache: What's the state of the art in high-performance logging in Elixir? I'm starting to run into cases where our logger seems to get overwhelmed on server boxes, causing a sharp performance hit for seconds-to-minutes at a time.
[19:37:33] gamache: We're on Elixir 1.8.1 and Erlang 21.3, so we're up to date on performance work that has been merged in upstream, and we're experimenting with the :discard_threshold and :sync_threshold configs (to no avail yet)
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[20:10:18] tristanm_: does 1.8.1 use the otp logger by default or is it anoptional backend?
[20:17:57] josevalim: tristan__: it is still our own logger
[20:18:20] josevalim: last time i benched though it performed better than otp's
[20:18:50] josevalim: gamache: we do have improvements on logger on elixir master
[20:19:30] josevalim: i am not sure if the overwhelming is important enuogh to warrant you trying master
[20:19:43] josevalim: but i would bet the slowdown being caused by your backend
[20:20:11] josevalim: gamache: which backends do you use?
[20:22:09] tristanm_: grr, no slides or video of Andrew's talk that benchmarked lager and otp logger yet
[20:23:03] tristanm_: can't remember the areas otp's had issues and wonder if it is where elixir logger outperforms
[20:29:36] gamache: josevalim: just :console right now. Is there somewhere I can read about the improvements in -master?
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[20:55:56] josevalim: gamache: the commits/PR mostly
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[21:03:47] gamache: josevalim: this looks relevant, thanks
[21:04:12] gamache: I might not put our prod servers on master, but this definitely hints I should pick up 1.8.2 shortly after it is released
[21:06:15] sms: Anybody need an extra hand on any projects
[21:09:26] OliverMT: something broke with nifs and elixir in win10 with newest visual studio
[21:09:28] OliverMT: https://github.com/riverrun/bcrypt_elixir/issues/11
[21:09:33] OliverMT: neither bcrypt nor argon works anymore
[21:09:51] OliverMT: I've gone back to wsl, but wsl + using vscode in windows = issues with ntfs file locking
[21:10:20] OliverMT: and I moved off osx because I was so tired of fighting the OS tool chains lol
[21:10:46] OliverMT: spent two whole work days fighting homebrew and ended up needing to reinstall osx, then rage-ordered a windows laptop and desktop :P
[21:11:19] sms: Just switch to Arch
[21:11:40] OliverMT: I did linux desktop for a while
[21:11:44] OliverMT: all coding stuff worked flawlessly
[21:11:54] OliverMT: just too bad that linux is horrible as a desktop os
[21:12:30] OliverMT: I could choose between shitty scaling in gnome or proper scaling for my 4k 31.5" in kde with plasma, and having to killall -9 on the WM to make my clock not freeze up
[21:12:39] OliverMT: got late for meetings four times then decided to go back to wsl
[21:12:54] OliverMT: the best solution so far has been to run mobaxterm in windows and run actual linux apps from inside wsl
[21:13:05] OliverMT: but it requires hefty ram, so it's only feasible on my desktop where I have 32gb
[21:13:14] OliverMT: it doesnt work so well on laptop with 16gb
[21:14:18] sms: I've been pretty lucky so far, been really stable for me
[21:14:37] OliverMT: well are you on proper monitor hardware?
[21:14:43] OliverMT: also the laptop story on linux is just laughable
[21:14:43] sms: What kind of video card do you have?
[21:14:53] OliverMT: had to just fully shut down pc every time
[21:15:14] OliverMT: if sleep worked (which was like 20% of the time), the wifi was always screwed up and needed me to reload modules to kernel on unsleep
[21:15:26] sms: Nvidia has pretty good official drivers now
[21:15:36] OliverMT: I have nvidia on desktop, that part wasnt the problem
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[21:15:43] OliverMT: gnome doesnt have incremental scaling
[21:15:51] sms: Oh, I figured that would be a part of the scaling issue
[21:15:52] OliverMT: 100% you need a looking glass and 150% it's super huge
[21:16:02] OliverMT: KDE supports incremental like 125%
[21:16:14] OliverMT: but plasma is just a spaghetti collection duct taped together it feels like
[21:16:30] OliverMT: I love me some linux, but not as desktop
[21:16:52] sms: Yeah laptop could be an issue to, especially if it has modern features. I use an old thinkpad so it doesn't concern me much
[21:16:59] OliverMT: yeah I have a new lenovo
[21:17:05] OliverMT: it doesnt support old school S3 sleep
[21:17:10] OliverMT: only new fancy S0 which doesnt have kernel support
[21:17:30] OliverMT: windows supports it, keeps wifi on and stuff, but on linux it just cold spins, drains battery in a few hours
[21:18:31] sms: Ahh that's a pretty annoying issue
[21:21:13] sms: OliverMT: Which Lenovo do you have anyway?
[21:22:31] OliverMT: x1 carbon gen6
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[21:39:35] tristanm_: best laptop
[21:44:39] rawtaz: but a lenovo
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[21:46:20] tristanm_: OliverMT: did you apply the patch?
[21:47:01] OliverMT: the fact I had to patch the kernel in the first place made me annoyed
[21:47:05] tristanm_: damn. I have 2 and both have been fine
[21:47:09] OliverMT: I am 34 years old and a busy person work wiase
[21:47:15] OliverMT: I don't want a beagle board for my work
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[21:50:40] tristanm_: I'm 33, so still young and care free
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[21:58:36] dysfun: i'm going to define 'young' as 'younger than OliverMT' from now on
[21:59:06] dysfun: as a pleasant consequence, i will never be old
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[22:07:25] ariedler: so what does that make OliverMT; young or old :P
[22:08:09] dysfun: old, obvs
[22:16:06] sms: Most people on IRC seem about that age
[22:16:26] sms: Well, freenode anyways
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[22:39:46] ariedler: i like the 'your old if you were born before unix'
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[23:07:14] mrus: does anyone know how to get :nerves_time running?
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