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#elixir-lang - 26 June 2019

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[05:57:35] serafeim: good morning
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[07:41:59] serafeim: is anybody familiar with email protocol internals ? if not where (which channel) should i ask ?
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[11:29:11] dysfun: anyone have a good recommendation for one of those css libraries that doesn't use classes that just makes basic html look less terrible?
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[11:32:44] serafeim: dysfun: there's been a number of thse in HN frontpage
[11:35:24] dysfun: remember the names of any? i searched 'css' and predictably there's tons of stuff
[11:37:39] dysfun: lol this turned up. didn't read but the title is amusing https://css-tricks.com/how-to-increase-your-page-size-by-1500-with-webpack-and-vue/
[11:37:40] serafeim: dysfun: this ? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593866
[11:37:54] dysfun: ooh, didn't see that one
[11:37:56] dysfun: i found tacit
[11:38:10] serafeim: and sakura is nice
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[11:38:43] dysfun: which is the one phoenix ships these days?
[11:38:49] serafeim: milligram css
[11:38:56] serafeim: it has classes though
[11:39:06] dysfun: oh, i thought it was an element only thing
[11:39:41] serafeim: no... and unfurtunatelly although milligram *does* have classes it's missing a lot of things
[11:39:53] serafeim: i'm not really sure why phoenix didn't stick to bootstrap
[11:40:25] serafeim: but I've had variosu problems with milligram, here's one for example : https://github.com/milligram/milligram/issues/227
[11:40:28] dysfun: i'm sure people complained about the size of bootstrap or something
[11:40:51] serafeim: maybe but bootstrap is batteries included
[11:41:01] serafeim: in milligram i had to write my custom css for various things
[11:41:02] dysfun: up to a point
[11:42:14] sevenseacat: well phoenix only needed styling for its welcome page, and bootstrap was total overkill for that
[11:42:23] dysfun: it definitely was
[11:42:31] dysfun: and a single css file is quite easy to remove
[11:42:39] serafeim: sevenseacat: well no i think that phoenix also needs styling for the gen.html pages
[11:43:04] serafeim: sevenseacat: well ok but milligram is *also* used in these pages
[11:43:17] serafeim: so it does need it in the end no matter what we thing
[11:43:17] sevenseacat: that's because its part of the default stylesheet
[11:43:26] sevenseacat: which you should remove first thing
[11:43:55] serafeim: sevenseacat: ha ha ha why is that ? i actually use that stylesheet (milligram) in my project: https://github.com/spapas/phxcrd
[11:44:32] sevenseacat: sure, you can use it as a base, but any real app is going to need a lot more design work than it can give you
[11:44:48] sevenseacat: it might be fine for a starting point
[11:44:49] serafeim: sevenseacat: it depends on the apps
[11:45:03] serafeim: sevenseacat: but yes i've already mention that milligram lacks too many things
[11:45:13] serafeim: and it needs custom css work :\
[11:45:19] sevenseacat: all apps need custom css work
[11:46:19] sevenseacat: milligram is not a substitute for having real app design
[11:46:23] sevenseacat: fine for prototyping and the like
[11:50:36] dysfun: totally not in the same league, but i did like bulma
[11:50:49] dysfun: but i'd like it to be updated to use css grid rather than flexbox
[11:50:57] serafeim: i think bulma is similar to bootstrap
[11:50:59] dysfun: css grid is awesome
[11:51:12] sevenseacat: keep meaning to look into tailwind
[11:51:20] dysfun: i did ages ago when it was a postcss filter
[11:51:22] serafeim: sevenseacat: yes me too. tailwind or tachyons
[11:51:42] dysfun: i could never get my app *and* tailwind working in one webpack process
[11:52:08] serafeim: serafeim: however i think that bootstrap4 already has a bunch of utility classes: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.3/utilities/borders/
[11:52:24] dysfun: in my frontend work, we're stuck on bootstrap 3
[11:53:11] serafeim: i use the utility classes of bootstrap4 (like mb-2, pt-3 etc) all the time. i've even replicated some of them in my milligram based project: https://github.com/spapas/phxcrd/blob/master/priv/static/css/phoenix.css#L121
[11:53:42] serafeim: dysfun: i really recommend using the utility classes of bs4 i mentioned (i think bs3 lacks them)
[11:54:21] dysfun: yeah the problem is i've been burnt a lot by css frameworks and the buyin they require and the fixes you have to make to your own stuff to cope with them
[11:55:38] serafeim: dysfun: i agree. the good thing is that most of the things i develop don't need too much design (they are apps for internal users of my org)
[11:56:39] dysfun: yeah, i work on a public project
[12:03:07] benwilson512: bulma being pure css is nice
[12:03:23] benwilson512: particularly if you end up using live view which doesn't interact very well with bootstrap's js bits
[12:05:39] dysfun: lol benwilson512 you are a glutton for punishment
[12:05:53] benwilson512: dysfun: how so?
[12:06:30] dysfun: backend generating frontend for js framework that knows nothing at all of backend but will be impacted by tons of updates from it
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[12:08:09] benwilson512: not sure I follow, bulma doesn't know or care about live view and vice versa
[12:08:15] benwilson512: whereas if you use bootstrap
[12:08:22] benwilson512: both bootstrap and live view are trying to change the DOM
[12:08:30] benwilson512: IE bootstrap drop downs just flat don't work
[12:08:39] benwilson512: they spaz out
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[12:13:25] josevalim: mitchellhenke: ping
[12:13:49] nox: benwilson512: Just make a new browser that makes DOM mutations not an issue anymore obviously.
[12:13:51] sevenseacat: if they edit different parts of the dom it should be okay, right?
[12:14:05] benwilson512: nox: obviously
[12:14:16] benwilson512: sevenseacat: if jquery edits inside the live view container
[12:14:20] benwilson512: then morphdom will clobber the changes
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[12:14:52] benwilson512: since it detects a difference between the current dom state and the dom state it's being told to make happen
[12:15:48] nox: benwilson512: I'm jesting but the fact that we have entire frameworks and libs with their own overhead to batch DOM mutations to make them less painful is nuts to me.
[12:16:34] benwilson512: nox: well, even if the browser had a built in "make it so" function this issue would remain
[12:17:01] nox: benwilson512: No, we need better dynamic layout engines with better use of parallelism.
[12:17:08] nox: ACTION is entirely biased about that, note.
[12:17:35] benwilson512: as long as there is an entity that claims to know what the entire dom state should be, it will conflict with some other entity that's making out of band changes
[12:18:07] nox: The browser knows what the entire DOM state should be already.
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[12:18:31] benwilson512: nox: sure but in the case of live view that state changes dynamically
[12:19:06] benwilson512: if jquery says "don't hide this" and phoenix says "hide this" it's gonna stutter
[12:19:36] nox: I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about things like React existing at all mostly because of perceived slowness in the browser's DOM APIs.
[12:20:04] benwilson512: that's perfectly fair
[12:20:17] nox: 👍🏻
[12:20:51] nox: benwilson512: I may be arguing to procrastinate from implementing floats and margin collapsing. :P
[12:20:54] benwilson512: I think that's a separate issue though
[12:21:10] benwilson512: I'm sick on vacation, so also killing time
[12:21:24] benwilson512: although the fever is unlikely to improve my argumentation skills
[12:21:49] nox: benwilson512: Improv classes would!
[12:21:58] nox: Take the opportunity of being on vacation to try out improv.
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[14:15:09] josevalim: mitchellhenke: it seems that phoenix_pubsub_redis does not implement direct_broadcast and instead it just broadcasts to everyone
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[14:18:17] mitchellhenke: hm I can take a peek
[14:25:34] josevalim: mitchellhenke: no problem, i am just wondering if it is for a specific reason
[14:25:41] josevalim: becacuse i am working on phoenix pubsub 2.0
[14:25:44] josevalim: i will push some new code son
[14:25:48] mitchellhenke: nope, no reason that I'm aware of
[14:30:27] mitchellhenke: would have to refamiliarize myself
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[14:32:50] hypercore: hey guys, how can i order a has_many relationship? e.g. if i want to render <%= for article <- @user.articles do %> and i want the articles to be order by newest first
[14:34:12] hypercore: is there a concise way of doing this (that's not passing a seperate "@articles |> order_by" variable in my render function?
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[15:00:51] josevalim: mitchellhenke: done :) the phoenix pubsub v2.0 api is much simpler to implement
[15:01:58] josevalim: also fixed the direct broadcast bug :)
[15:02:13] Zarathu: :o pubsub 2.0!
[15:02:51] Zarathu: oh, no docs yet
[15:02:57] josevalim: just github master
[15:03:06] josevalim: it is mostly a refactor, cleaner internals, nothing much to get excited about
[15:03:16] mitchellhenke: josevalim: awesome. is anything needed from me on the redis adapter?
[15:03:19] josevalim: i mean, it does allow custom fastlaning, but i think only a handful of people need it
[15:03:22] josevalim: mitchellhenke: nope :)
[15:03:28] mitchellhenke: sounds good :)
[15:03:58] Zarathu: cleaner internals is very exciting
[15:04:17] Zarathu: List.delete_first(list, fun) would be pretty exciting too ;o
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[15:17:52] hypercore: figured it out
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[15:32:54] jeregrine: gamache: you were right, the other day I was being a jerk. thanks for calling me out.
[15:33:25] ankhers: The socket has a :private key with what looks like assigns from my conn. Is there some public API to retrieve those values? Or is it safe to access the :private key?
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[15:38:37] Zarathu: Ankhers: what's the downside to just getting them from socket.assigns?
[15:38:50] ankhers: They are not in assigns.
[15:39:01] Zarathu: what values are you trying to get
[15:39:24] ankhers: The user that is logged in so that I can verify they are allowed to do the thing they are trying to do.
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[15:40:20] Zarathu: is this a liveview or a channel?
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[15:41:08] Zarathu: anyway, you can just assign the user info to the socket
[15:41:09] ankhers: Sorry. I started with that, then changed my question...
[15:41:26] gamache: jeregrine: water under the bridge :)
[15:41:27] ankhers: Yes, but I don't really have access to the user without accessing the :private key.
[15:42:00] ankhers: So I just want to make sure that it is safe to do so, or if there is something I do not know about.
[15:42:02] Zarathu: huh? how are you authenticating the user to log in to begin with?
[15:42:20] Zarathu: are you using something like guardian?
[15:43:12] ankhers: No. I rolled my own because nothing was really big when I started on this project. But I am using a live route, which does not hit a controller, so I do not have access to the conn before I get the socket.
[15:45:12] ankhers: But like I said, all of my conns assigns are under the :private key of the socket. I'm assuming it is relatively safe to access that?
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[15:46:55] Zarathu: yea. i would have a test in place to make sure nothing breaks on future updates
[15:47:26] Zarathu: but probably the best thing here is to just use a controller to provide session data to the live view's mount/2
[15:47:56] Zarathu: or if you can get away with it, just having an authentication plug in your router that checks to make sure the user is authenticated
[15:48:01] ankhers: Yeah, I just thought that was unecessary complication and indirection with something relatively simple.
[15:48:09] Zarathu: seems better than doing it in your view tbh
[15:48:48] ankhers: It isn't in the view though. It is in the socket side of things, which I see more equivalent to the controller.
[15:50:40] Zarathu: the logic for handling unauthenticated users, is it the same across all or most of your live views?
[15:50:45] ankhers: Also, I do have a plug that ensures they are logged in, but not one to ensure they are only accessing resources they should be.
[15:51:12] Zarathu: ahh, i see
[15:51:45] Zarathu: yeah, if you need to access conn data the only way to do that is in a controller. i wouldn't access :private for that. it might be more complicated, but less "dirty"
[15:51:50] Zarathu: this has been discussed here before
[15:53:20] Zarathu: "the socket side of things, which I see more equivalent to the controller." - a socket is not a controller. :p
[15:53:34] ankhers: Hence the "more equivalent" part.
[15:53:37] benwilson512: if you're using the live routes, it's the closest thing you get
[15:53:43] ankhers: It is far from a view
[15:55:40] Zarathu: benwilson512: i remember thinking from last time we had this discussion, it would be really nice if `conn` was made accessible to the live view via some callback
[15:56:02] benwilson512: Zarathu: yeah as I've explored it more I understand why it can't be
[15:56:26] Zarathu: because of the complexity of signing the %Plug.Conn{} struct?
[15:56:51] benwilson512: well you wouldn't want to embed the whole thing in the page, you'd need to encrypt it at least
[15:56:57] ankhers: I don't think the entire conn needs to be accessible. But having a safe way to access my assigns would be nice.
[15:57:07] benwilson512: size is the issue
[15:57:37] benwilson512: nobody tailors their assigns to be optimized for transfer to the client and back
[15:57:50] benwilson512: it'd be an enormous change
[15:58:01] ankhers: But they are already there in the :private key. So it is doing something.
[15:58:03] Zarathu: ah right. at least, there should be documentation helping people decide between a live route vs. using a controller
[15:58:14] benwilson512: Ankhers: only on the first render
[15:58:15] benwilson512: not the live render
[15:58:28] Zarathu: Ankhers: for your case i would 100% use a controller for this though
[15:58:39] benwilson512: the first render _is_ done as part of an HTTP request, but then the subsequent live render is not
[15:58:44] benwilson512: and it doesn't have the assigns
[15:58:52] benwilson512: in fact that second live render could happen on a different server
[15:58:58] benwilson512: depending on how your load balancer works
[15:59:03] Zarathu: haha, sick
[15:59:15] ankhers: Sure, but if I needed to continue using them, I could just throw them in the sockets assigns.
[15:59:21] ankhers: So first render is fine, really.
[15:59:36] benwilson512: that's how assign_new works I think
[15:59:52] ankhers: So is it safe to access that then?
[16:00:06] benwilson512: phoenix private?
[16:00:13] ankhers: socket.private.assign_new.my_thing.
[16:00:28] benwilson512: no I mean there's an assign_new function
[16:00:32] benwilson512: which is the public API for that
[16:00:59] benwilson512: Ankhers: it always needs them in the live render so that it can diff it against the current dom state
[16:03:25] ankhers: "When a LiveView is mounted in a disconnected state, the Plug.Conn assigns will be available for reference via `assign_new/3`, allowing assigns to be shared for the initial HTTP request." -- https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix_live_view/blob/9fcff9666f9fb2a6ea6c5081aa0899a3cd8f636f/lib/phoenix_live_view.ex#L731. It sounds like I should have access to them.
[16:03:51] benwilson512: right, they're there for the initial HTTP reequest
[16:04:10] benwilson512: and then the `fun` is used on the subsequent live view
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[16:06:58] ankhers: I guess I will just use a controller for this. Still seems unnecessarily complex and indirect to me.
[16:09:27] benwilson512: unless I've got my mental model wrong, every request is _two_ requests. An HTTP request that loads all the data and renders, and then an entirely separate websocket request that needs to do the same thing
[16:09:45] benwilson512: both requests need to be able to render the entire view
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[16:19:07] adgtl: Folks.. how is this channel different from Slack?
[16:19:29] benwilson512: adgtl: mostly the bit where it's irc ;)
[16:19:46] adgtl: benwilson512: okay :)
[16:19:50] benwilson512: there's no fundamental difference, just a different medium, and consequently fewer people
[16:20:47] adgtl: ACTION okay 
[16:25:01] Nicd-: And only one channel vs. dozens
[16:25:45] cbw[m]: and less electron
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[16:26:14] nox: Electron is ok
[16:26:19] nox: if the product is made by Microsoft.
[16:28:37] Nicd-: I use IRCCloud for the Elixir Slack :)
[16:29:10] Nicd-: It kinda has issues with the 20k+ people on the general channel...
[16:29:18] Nicd-: But otherwise works fine
[16:31:18] nox: I'm not on Slack.
[16:31:48] Nicd-: I wouldn't be if I couldn't use it through my IRC client
[16:32:06] nox: Nicd-: No no,
[16:32:14] nox: I'm @not on Slack.
[16:32:23] nox: This joke will never get old to me.
[16:33:54] Nicd-: https://media.tenor.com/images/dd6127e9759eb366269a99ff3b978bcd/tenor.gif
[16:34:33] Nicd-: Look it's multimedia
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[18:16:17] Zarathu: whoa, 20k people in the elixir slack?
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[18:27:11] Nicd-: But Slack doesn't remove accounts by itself so the majority are dead
[18:27:12] gamache: 19,994 lurkers
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[18:51:10] serafeim: let's not start again on slack :)
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[19:20:04] nageV: thankfully IRC continues to withstand the test of time
[19:20:37] gamache: (now would be the perfect time for a netsplit)
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[19:44:26] OliverMT: why are you using tenor for ants Nicd-? :(
[20:06:14] josevalim: benwilson512: are you using Phoenix.PubSub.direct_broadcast anywhere?
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[21:08:19] Poeticode: so I made a prod release with distillery. version 0.1.6. I unzipped the resulting app_name.tar.gz to a new directory, and started the app. later, I made a prod release with the --upgrade flag, version 0.1.7. I moved that over to the releases folder in that new directory. But now when I run `bin/app_name upgrade 0.1.7`, it complains that it can't fi
[21:08:19] Poeticode: nd the `relup` file in 0.1.6. Did I goof up somewhere?
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[21:40:43] Poeticode: ok just made a completely new 0.1.7 release
[21:40:52] Poeticode: I'll figure out upgrading later :p
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