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[22:19:38] Coraline: So I'm going to not be an op anymore. I don't really participate because some of the regulars on #ruby and #ruby-offtopic are really obnoxious and disrespectful to me and it feels like a hostile environment.
[22:19:52] Coraline: I'm on IRC all the time if any of you want to chat, but until then, see ya
[22:20:03] Coraline: ♥️ ♥️ ♥️
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[21:47:47] Coraline:
[22:03:17] Coraline: Thanks. :) Super happy.
[22:42:16] Coraline: I did a ton of research apeiros and I'm pretty convinced that they're serious.
[23:27:21] Coraline: I'm in Chicago and staying here.


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[19:23:18] Coraline: I'm not listed as staff on
[19:23:40] Coraline: Also I'm surprised that there is no rule against this
[19:23:41] Coraline: [13:17:16] <Ox0dea> $ unzip; strip; touch; grep; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; umount; sleep
[19:23:56] Coraline: I consider that pretty inappropriate.
[19:24:35] Coraline: Ox0dea: do you really think that that's appropriate?
[19:31:39] Coraline: He really gets on my nerves.
[19:31:53] Coraline: And it only got worse when he came after me about the Ruby CoC.
[19:32:02] Coraline: It wasn't fun being dogpiled.
[19:32:21] Coraline: Technically he didn't break any rules, he was just being an asshole.
[19:41:06] Coraline: Ox0dea: I'm not playing this game with you. Just stop now.
[19:47:10] Coraline: Pretty sure my implication to drop it was clear.
[19:49:19] Coraline: Great, thanks
[19:50:49] Coraline: Just happened across it
[19:52:52] Coraline: I can see it being borderline
[19:53:10] Coraline: But you also have to respect an op that says it's inappropriate.
[19:53:15] Coraline: That's what's lacking here
[19:53:47] Coraline: He believes himself to be above reproach
[19:54:13] Coraline: It was fine
[19:54:44] Coraline: Yeah I guess so
[19:55:04] Coraline: I meant your "don't"
[19:55:29] Coraline: Although yeah I should have done that
[19:57:08] Coraline: I probably should have handled it. I'm erring on the side of not being accused of being overly sensitive I think.
[19:57:11] Coraline: Which is bullshit.
[19:57:53] Coraline: I don't care if you don't like it
[19:57:57] Coraline: It's a thing that happens
[19:58:16] Coraline: It's not for you to judge what should or should not offend me.
[20:02:53] Coraline: I'm not really interested in your observations about my reactions to things.
[20:03:26] Coraline: [13:46:46] <diegoviola> Coraline: grow a thick skin please
[20:03:29] Coraline: That's exactly about me.
[20:06:26] Coraline: People are finally speaking up about bullshit
[20:06:32] Coraline: That's what's happening, so get used to it.
[20:07:35] Coraline: Tech isn't a boy's club anymore
[20:08:43] Coraline: So much of tech has catered to the whims and values of straight, cis, white men for so long
[20:08:52] Coraline: That's changing, and that scares people and pisses them off
[20:09:10] Coraline: It's not drama, it's real life
[20:09:15] Coraline: That's what you're missing
[20:09:31] Coraline: Tech is about people. You can't ignore people.
[20:09:39] Coraline: And people are complicated.
[20:10:03] Coraline: If you think it's a waste of time then let it go. Go code something. I don't need your opinions.
[20:12:11] Coraline: I didn't ask for a discussion or debate Papierkorb
[20:12:33] Coraline: I'd rather not talk about this stuff at all
[20:48:16] Coraline: I released a new version of CC that took into consideration some of the criticisms of the previous version
[20:48:24] Coraline: Won some former critics over.
[20:48:43] Coraline:
[20:49:00] Coraline:
[20:49:08] Coraline:
[21:06:10] Coraline: Yeah, I took that into account.
[21:17:54] Coraline: Free speech is not freedom from consequences. You are free to be an asshole and people are free to call you out on it.
[21:18:33] Coraline: "Anything you say"
[21:41:10] Coraline: Aviio: code please


[19:50:01] Coraline: !qkick FiredBall-0x71 Spam



[15:41:00] Coraline: Already had one discussion about the situation with 0x and others. It didn't go well.
[15:41:14] Coraline: I'm sure it will keep coming up for a while.
[15:41:35] Coraline: I'm all for people expressing and exploring their thoughts but it has to be kept civil.
[15:42:08] Coraline: And I refuse to take part in every conversation about it, I don't have that kind of energy.
[15:57:49] Coraline: Cool, good to know.


[00:53:27] Coraline: Can we update the channel topic with a link to the new commands?
[20:31:27] Coraline: baweaver: where can I find the latest list of bot commands?
[20:33:25] Coraline: Wondering about kick and ban and if they can be triggered by /msg
[20:33:34] Coraline: I guess I could read the source but
[20:39:45] Coraline: Go with yours
[21:06:45] Coraline: Awesome, thanks
[21:06:49] Coraline: I get a lot of email, so
[21:08:35] Coraline: Yeah, I think we're all set now


[17:31:51] Coraline: I'm pretty sick of how smug Ox is
[17:32:12] Coraline: Like I don't get enough shit already.


[00:00:35] Coraline: Ox0dea: you are a right asshat.


[22:03:55] Coraline: Ox0dea: for what?
[22:04:02] Coraline: Oh that. :)
[22:04:17] Coraline: I wouldn't call it "coming after"
[22:04:35] Coraline: I tried reaching out to Matz directly first.
[22:04:51] Coraline: And I talked to a few other people too
[22:05:02] Coraline: I wanted to be more careful I guess.
[22:05:46] Coraline: Matz seems to be leaning toward crafting one specifically for Ruby, which will be good as long as marginalized people who know about these things are involved in the process.
[22:12:26] Coraline: That's a motto. There's nothing that you can do with that.
[22:12:38] Coraline: What's the consequence of violating MINASWAN?
[22:12:46] Coraline: What does 'nice' mean?
[22:13:19] Coraline: I'd disagree with that statement.
[22:13:31] Coraline: And enforcement is a necessary part of a CoC.
[22:14:10] Coraline: Maybe some people would consider making sexual advances 'nice' because it's a compliment to the other person.
[22:14:52] Coraline: Some things are necessarily left to interpretation by maintainers.
[22:15:08] Coraline: It's impossible to spell out every type of bad behavior.
[22:16:11] Coraline: CoCs are also an important signaling mechanism.
[22:16:22] Coraline: CoCs set expectations.
[22:16:39] Coraline: They codify community standards.
[22:17:05] Coraline: As a marginalized person I can tell you that it is.
[22:19:06] Coraline: In the absence of a CoC there are people who will not feel comfortable contributing to Ruby.
[22:19:47] Coraline: I fail to see how a CoC causes harm.
[22:20:39] Coraline: I'm not going to have a discussion with someone who sexually harasses me, sorrynotsorry
[22:21:04] Coraline: It happens.
[22:22:13] Coraline: It's happened here.
[22:22:35] Coraline: Humans are capable of horrible things.
[22:22:44] Coraline: Being human is not a moral code.
[22:28:33] Coraline: Please don't talk to me about having a thicker skin. You have no idea what I go through every single day.
[22:28:43] Coraline: This shit wears down on you.
[22:29:35] Coraline: By what stretch of the imagination am I inflicting suffering on others?
[22:30:23] Coraline: You're right, the abuse I get should just be ignored.
[22:30:41] Coraline: I should just drop out of oSS
[22:31:18] Coraline: And cancel my Twitter account. And stop reading email.
[22:31:33] Coraline: Gods forbid people be held accountable.
[22:31:51] Coraline: Maybe I should go to the police with my abusive emails.
[22:32:29] Coraline: Others have.
[22:32:43] Coraline: Harassment is not illegal.
[22:33:54] Coraline: It matters.
[22:34:21] Coraline: Because it's who I am and contributes to a) how I see the world, and b) how the world sees me
[22:35:19] Coraline: It matters apparently to people who insist that I'm not a woman.
[22:35:43] Coraline: Saying it doesn't matter is erasure.
[22:36:52] Coraline: You actually want me to name off all the people who have come after me?
[22:37:46] Coraline: "An anti-harassment agenda"
[22:38:03] Coraline: My desire to be treated as a human being is an agenda now.
[22:39:21] Coraline: It's about clearly stating community values, outlining examples of unacceptable behavior, putting forward an enforcement mechanism with consequences, and signaling inclusivity.
[22:40:01] Coraline: I have no way of knowing if a maintainer is responsible or not
[22:40:41] Coraline: Again, it's a signal.
[22:44:33] Coraline: Good thing we don't have laws. That would mean that America is full of bad people!
[22:44:42] Coraline: Rules are stupid!
[22:44:54] Coraline: Good thing this channel doesn't have a CoC and mods!
[22:47:41] Coraline: What's wrong with defining your terms?
[22:48:09] Coraline: What's wrong with stating what will happen if you are in fact an asshole?
[22:48:21] Coraline: What's wrong with saying "we don't want assholes"?
[22:48:37] Coraline: MINISWAN is insufficient. A motto is not a code of conduct.
[22:48:48] Coraline: "we are nice"
[22:48:51] Coraline: What if we're not?
[22:55:34] Coraline: Harassment is not a drama storm.
[22:56:03] Coraline: I got doxxed. Tell me how that's drama.
[22:56:54] Coraline: Being put in fear of my safety is more than drama.
[22:58:01] Coraline: If I had been doxed by a contributor to a project then there could be consequences for that person.
[22:58:30] Coraline: As a maintainer you are already responsible for managing community behavior.
[22:58:52] Coraline: People are less likely to be malicious if they know that there are consequences to their actions.
[22:59:03] Coraline: That's human nature.
[22:59:44] Coraline: We have fundamentally different experiences of human nature then.
[23:00:05] Coraline: Can you provide an example of someone being expelled from the community?
[23:00:17] Coraline: And can you tell me exactly how that would happen?
[23:01:03] Coraline: Avoiding problems definitely make them go away.
[23:02:10] Coraline: Doxing is an example of something that happened to me. It was an anonymous gg'er
[23:03:04] Coraline: It's an example of how communities can go wrong.
[23:03:27] Coraline: It's an example of people "being human"
[23:03:33] Coraline: "Being an adult"
[23:04:02] Coraline: If you're afraid of violating a CoC then you have bigger problems.
[23:04:12] Coraline: Or a persecution complex.
[23:05:15] Coraline: Should we take murder laws off the books because one innocent person is in jail?
[23:05:52] Coraline: Yep, Adria Richards is a friend of mine.
[23:14:55] Coraline: smathy: can I ask if you are a white male?
[23:15:22] Coraline: Because what works for the majority does not work for everyone.
[23:15:40] Coraline: In OSS? Yes they are.
[23:16:24] Coraline: Between 2 and 10 percent of OSS contributors are women.
[23:16:39] Coraline: Does that not indicate that there's a problem?
[23:17:09] Coraline: And if a woman tells you that there's a problem, are you really going to answer "works on my machine"?
[23:17:46] Coraline: Because it colors your experience of the world.
[23:18:19] Coraline: You can't pretend that we live and work in a society that is colorblind and genderblind.
[23:18:48] Coraline: Well you can but you'd be wrong.
[23:19:49] Coraline: I have not personally experienced harassment by contributors to the Ruby project. I have personally experienced harassment by members of the Ruby community.
[23:20:01] Coraline: I have never been murdered. I still want murder to be illegal.
[23:22:09] Coraline: Do you think that #ruby is worse off with rules?
[23:22:24] Coraline: Did you prefer it the way it was before?
[23:22:31] Coraline: Should we have mods?
[23:23:57] Coraline: Would you prefer that mods operate according to rules, or not?
[23:26:32] Coraline: smathy: I can't say the same, so I would hope that knowing that my experience and therefore perspective is different would mean something.
[23:27:09] Coraline: If people who regularly experience harassment support an idea, and those who do not oppose it, there are reasons.
[23:27:24] Coraline: And people who experience it should be listened to.
[23:28:32] Coraline: You can talk over others without listening. You can listen without hearing what someone is saying or empathizing with them.
[23:29:54] Coraline: I bother because I'm trying to make things better.
[23:30:09] Coraline: This is one way that I believe we can make things better.
[23:31:35] Coraline: You need a CoC before problems emerge.
[23:32:46] Coraline: I want the community that I'm part of to be deliberate and open about its core values and commit to enforcing them.
[23:33:19] Coraline: I don't think that's too much to ask.
[23:35:00] Coraline:
[23:35:01] Coraline:
[23:36:12] Coraline: These are the people who agree with you. Does that give you pause?
[23:38:42] Coraline: When you get shit like that all day every day it wears you down.
[23:39:09] Coraline: That's my world.
[23:39:34] Coraline: A CoC is a single tool.
[23:39:38] Coraline: smathy: I do
[23:42:11] Coraline: Papierkorb: how would it be different if deeterius stated in his Twitter profile that he was a core contributor to project x?
[23:48:52] Coraline: Papierkorb: so if a Ruby core member harassed me, I should start writing in another language?
[23:55:41] Coraline: Elia continually makes and retweets transphobic comments.
[23:56:13] Coraline: I'm not digging through his timeline for you.
[23:56:57] Coraline: That's not my problem.
[23:57:34] Coraline: I'm not arguing.
[23:58:18] Coraline: I don't see a point in continuing this.
[23:58:29] Coraline: No one is going to change anyone's mind.
[23:58:45] Coraline: You can disrespect or devalue my work if you want to.
[23:58:52] Coraline: I'm not stopping.


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