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[03:15:44] pipecloud: sevenseacat: How are you doing on this fine day of my hatching?
[03:47:42] pipecloud: Se??or fowlduck!
[03:47:59] pipecloud: fowlduck: Thanks bruvster.
[03:48:20] pipecloud: I took care of a dental surgery survivor.
[03:48:25] pipecloud: But it was a nice day off.
[03:56:44] pipecloud: sevenseacat: that's awesome.


[03:47:49] pipecloud: bricker`LA: https://github.com/postmodern/ruby-install/blob/master/share/ruby-install/ruby/functions.sh#L6-L7
[03:51:19] pipecloud: postmodern: Is there any chance that you could expose the build options that ruby-install would use so I could use them while building unsupported ruby versions for a particular implementation?
[03:51:54] pipecloud: $(ruby-build --compile-flags ruby) ./configure
[03:52:19] pipecloud: postmodern: ooh.
[03:52:53] pipecloud: postmodern: I'd just run that from within the directory from the unpacked ruby I downloaded?
[03:53:45] pipecloud: postmodern: I'd just like to compile using the same things ruby-install otherwise uses.
[03:54:09] pipecloud: Passing in whatever's necessary in addition to whatever ruby-install uses.
[03:54:44] pipecloud: postmodern: Oh I see. So I should just pass the url to the packaged source?
[03:55:56] pipecloud: Yeah, that's exactly what I want to do.
[03:58:58] pipecloud: postmodern: Thank you, sir.
[17:34:20] pipecloud: davidcelis: Is there any offerings from your employer for companies whose security promises to their customers wouldn't allow data leaving their network?
[17:34:37] pipecloud: Is the development tool the only choice?
[17:35:40] pipecloud: davidcelis: Yeah, that kind of thing.
[17:35:58] pipecloud: What a shame. :(
[17:36:06] pipecloud: Moar benchmark and profile for me then.
[17:48:49] pipecloud: tubbo: I dont' understand how your ISP has anything to do with your PTO.


[01:28:21] pipecloud: I'm hoping for a good channel on trains.
[02:00:56] pipecloud: sevenseacat: Oh singular collection names, how frowny that makes me. D:
[02:03:14] pipecloud: Or use reject?
[02:03:28] pipecloud: Well, I guess reject would be wrong.
[02:07:17] pipecloud: emocakes: I, too, don't care about crappy clients that don't support it.
[02:11:33] pipecloud: emocakes: I just use it when I get tired of dealing with divs and arrangement. I guess it sits in grids still.
[02:13:21] pipecloud: I use the blood of my victims^wenemies
[02:19:10] pipecloud: Only your brain if you sniff hard enough!
[02:19:40] pipecloud: emocakes: lol
[02:20:11] pipecloud: epochwolf: Is it just for you or do you want multiple accounts for other users?
[02:20:46] pipecloud: Radar: +b dzisentuboca ~CLIENTE04@
[02:21:22] pipecloud: I think most people just want a one-click style mail solution that's open sauce.
[02:36:23] pipecloud: I like how his thoughts on agile are "fuck you, tell me what you want. I don't really want to care about the rest."
[02:37:00] pipecloud: A good way of doing business if you're a consultant, but it sure makes being a full time employee a lot of fun.
[02:37:34] pipecloud: emocakes: You called?
[02:38:00] pipecloud: snkcld: Are you talking about rails?
[02:38:19] pipecloud: #rubyonrails:
[03:04:03] pipecloud: emocakes: There's realtime linux.
[03:04:50] pipecloud: sevenseacat: Did you get them to drop the IE6 requirement?
[03:05:05] pipecloud: Scient: "It's all delegation, now fuck off so I can fly my rubyplane."
[03:05:51] pipecloud: sevenseacat: I'm surprised anything works with ruby.
[03:05:58] pipecloud: especially when rails.
[03:11:36] pipecloud: Why are you reinventing connection pooling?
[03:11:55] pipecloud: markalanevans: So you're reinventing it to learn how it works?
[03:12:22] pipecloud: markalanevans: You can say that again.
[08:17:17] pipecloud: xybre: Well, it is semantic, just not coherent.
[08:17:21] pipecloud: And not semver.
[08:18:14] pipecloud: epochwolf is so cute!
[15:33:46] pipecloud: alindeman: Have you githubbros considered parsing markdown in commits?
[16:20:43] pipecloud: minion-: !gettingstarted
[16:20:58] pipecloud: |PiP|: It was always a tutorial.
[16:21:06] pipecloud: |PiP|: !guides
[16:21:19] pipecloud: And the docs are probably the best reference.
[16:22:26] pipecloud: I guess if you like books that lose their value pretty quickly, a rails reference would be the best manifestation of that!
[16:24:37] pipecloud: epochwolf: LUL
[16:24:50] pipecloud: "I hate this job and everyone should know it!"
[16:25:20] pipecloud: |PiP|: I don't know if anyone is printing off anything like that, no.
[16:25:35] pipecloud: It changes a lot though. Seems silly to want a physical copy of something so monstrous that changes so much.
[16:25:57] pipecloud: epochwolf: A nicer thing would be to extend a module into the object.
[16:26:06] pipecloud: Then there's at least a trace of it.
[16:26:30] pipecloud: |PiP|: K&R is the bible.
[16:26:37] pipecloud: epochwolf: Still. :)
[16:27:03] pipecloud: Hiding magic is almost as bad as tubbo's code
[16:27:48] pipecloud: epochwolf: Interesting naming there!
[16:28:03] pipecloud: I'd do ViewModels::LegalDocument.generate(attributes_from_view)
[16:28:10] pipecloud: But that's me.
[16:28:27] pipecloud: epochwolf: You say that as if it's a reason to do bad things! :D
[16:29:07] pipecloud: epochwolf: I'm somewhat more aspie about my code.
[16:29:56] pipecloud: epochwolf: mkay
[16:30:25] pipecloud: If you're happy with the atrocity, I'm happy enough. Actions at a distance should be made to be easily spotted.
[16:31:12] pipecloud: Plus, I don't believe Rails core has achieved the same level of enlightenment K&R has.
[16:31:37] pipecloud: Yeah, it's a shame that writing good code is just so damn hard to do!
[16:32:27] pipecloud: I usually prefer the more theoretical books when I want paper to sniff.
[16:33:12] pipecloud: tubbo: I'm already afraid because you bothered to mention me specifically. :(
[16:33:29] pipecloud: God damn it. I need to set up a local mail client like mutt...
[16:33:46] pipecloud: Fucking mail.app doesn't support 76 width forced linebreaks.
[16:34:21] pipecloud: How am I to be expected to communicate with people when I have to insert my own fucking line breaks around 76 characters? D:
[16:34:41] pipecloud: tubbo: There's rubygems handling notification in a cross-platform way, I'm sure one could script shit up.
[16:35:04] pipecloud: xybre: Nope. Never heard of it. Have they ever fucking heard of rack?
[16:35:09] pipecloud: They should go fuck themselves.
[16:35:47] pipecloud: xybre: When you find it, please link me.
[16:36:05] pipecloud: tubbo: I don't understand.
[16:36:21] pipecloud: epochwolf: 76 or gtfo
[16:37:01] pipecloud: Psh, you can read a little wider.
[16:37:21] pipecloud: xybre: Wasn't that the rails as she is spoke book?
[16:37:54] pipecloud: tubbo: Fuck them. They're noobs. I have a 286.
[16:40:27] pipecloud: tubbo: I like passing around objects that share a common interface. Often I'm passing around hashes, but if the collection has a collection-y behaviour, I'll wrap that into an object. I'm known more for wrapping a common hash sort into a value object.
[16:41:15] pipecloud: I don't make everything into a value object and then wrap it into a collection object. I generally look for values that travel along together.
[16:41:52] pipecloud: For collections, I look for groups of things I do operations on more than once.
[16:42:19] pipecloud: tubbo: Lastly, if you don't use cathode religiously, I wouldn't pee in your butt if it were on fire.
[17:12:24] pipecloud: Guh, Mail.app is the best terrible graphical application I've used to date. I should find something open source and graphical.
[17:17:30] pipecloud: workmad3: Yes.
[17:32:47] pipecloud: xybre: I think the important features for me atm is 72-76 width lines and GPG support. I'm hunting things down.
[17:36:17] pipecloud: xybre: mail.app with GPGTools
[17:36:22] pipecloud: But lacks other nerdy features.
[17:50:29] pipecloud: Hates_: Does that make an SQL query that groups or does it pull them all out into ruby first?
[17:51:02] pipecloud: Hates_: Seems sad.
[17:51:15] pipecloud: jsilver_: Does it have an MMU?
[17:53:31] pipecloud: Hates_: IDK bruv.
[17:53:53] pipecloud: You could probably slide by with shitty code for a while, but it certainly wouldn't make it past any pull request I review. :)
[17:54:46] pipecloud: xybre: I'm waiting for a good project tracker that's built into the VCS. There are some, but I want a nice one! :D
[17:55:05] pipecloud: Mark stories with tags and give them messages for the state.
[17:56:21] pipecloud: xybre: You should use confluence for the ops team!
[17:58:05] pipecloud: Hates_: I don't SQL. I can hobble together activerecord tho
[17:58:20] pipecloud: Guest30557: Mostly readjusting my junk in meetings, why?
[17:59:40] pipecloud: xybre: I just wish I knew a nice way to keep stuff in a separate commit tree and work on the project having both in use at the same time. It seems super expensive to constantly query git for parts or whole files. I haven't tried.
[17:59:53] pipecloud: I want something as distributed as git, no service needed at any point.
[18:01:57] pipecloud: xybre: Yeah.
[18:02:31] pipecloud: I think my problem is keeping the project checked out while accessing the branch that has the tracker in it.
[18:03:07] pipecloud: Another is syncing. The benefit of a service is no one typically works on the same thing as someone else without someone knowing it.
[18:03:28] pipecloud: Maybe you'd just need to script on top of git for the project tracker?
[18:06:10] pipecloud: xybre: I'd probably just want to configure a 'mirror', an origin, a place where I want to push my changes. Or places.
[18:06:49] pipecloud: xybre: I don't mind not knowing. I mind not being able to work with them to merge.
[18:08:10] pipecloud: xybre: I feel like the warning isn't integral, but it's a nice feature as long as people don't use it as an excuse to do things wrong.
[18:08:32] pipecloud: I'd rather they not know so that they make the best decisions possible.
[18:11:29] pipecloud: xybre: I don't want people adding new files or putting things where they don't belong in order to avoid the conflict.
[18:12:57] pipecloud: workmad3: The warning is the catalyst.
[18:13:32] pipecloud: If they don't get it, they're less likely to do it in order to avoid conflict. The less they know, they more they'll do what they think is right for reasons that aren't "I want to avoid a merge conflict."
[18:13:48] pipecloud: workmad3: No reason to throw more fuel on the fire, is there?
[18:14:15] pipecloud: xybre: I don't know if I've ever felt like that's a metric for changing files after I moved from PHP.
[18:14:30] pipecloud: workmad3: Sounds like a pretty shit thing to do.
[18:15:01] pipecloud: xybre: Unfortunately, my manager doesn't find it as funny as I do to ostracize the bad developers I have to work with from code.
[18:15:08] pipecloud: workmad3: What's the benefit of knowing?
[18:15:14] pipecloud: What the fuck are you going to do with the knowledge?
[18:15:50] pipecloud: xybre: I wish I had a manager who'd not only laugh with me but also encourage my antics.
[18:16:26] pipecloud: workmad3: Sounds like a great way to keep multiple stories in flight.
[18:16:40] pipecloud: xybre: stonean is such a neat guy.
[18:17:11] pipecloud: workmad3: Not really. I mean, go ahead, but you'll still have conflicts.
[18:17:27] pipecloud: You'll just have a better understanding of how to fix it ahead of time and your story won't have been worked on in parallel.
[18:18:57] pipecloud: Why not just work and have the first person who finishes help the other person with the conflicts?
[18:23:43] pipecloud: workmad3: I'm usually already busy or pairing, that just wouldn't work for me. I'm not usually editing just one file. They might touch a file, I'm usually working on at least 3.
[18:24:00] pipecloud: workmad3: I get that knowledge when I've pulled. Then I just talk to them.
[18:24:09] pipecloud: Pretty easy and no distracting notification.
[18:26:01] pipecloud: workmad3: I just think that my focus and work is more important than possible conflicts that I don't have to care about until after I've committed or when I've decided to merge remote changes in locally.
[18:26:40] pipecloud: Why not just use google docs to write your code?
[18:27:08] pipecloud: xybre: I'm a ginger. No one lets me know what's cool. :(
[18:28:23] pipecloud: We build our project management tools, like planning poker, retros, etc., in google spreadsheets.
[18:28:29] pipecloud: Neat stuff, not just simple copypasta.
[18:28:39] pipecloud: xybre: ikr :(
[18:29:57] pipecloud: Lexical scopes, bitch.
[18:30:06] pipecloud: tubbo: bubs.
[18:31:00] pipecloud: I'm working on a thing called KernelFuckery that basically mixes Array, Hash, and Enumerable's methods into Kernel so you can each(args, receiver &blk)
[18:31:12] pipecloud: Because delegation and sugar, so fuck you.
[18:33:57] pipecloud: Delegate moar, bitch. Make more objects, motherfucker.
[18:34:45] pipecloud: xybre: IKR.
[18:35:00] pipecloud: And mixins, subclassing, etc. are all just sugars (bad ones) over delegation.
[18:36:07] pipecloud: Delegation puts message passing front and center, where it belongs.
[18:37:53] pipecloud: xybre: I like something like an object that just handles exposing an interface and just delegates and coordinates.
[18:38:16] pipecloud: xybre: And yet they eventually get there after a few years.
[18:38:33] pipecloud: Because one of the blogging rubyists that people read talk about it.
[18:38:54] pipecloud: workmad3: I just call them objects, because they encapsulate behaviour.
[18:39:30] pipecloud: But people like words, so service object or behaviour object.
[18:40:47] pipecloud: workmad3: lib/<feature>/<behave>.rb
[18:40:55] pipecloud: Because app/ isn't your app. :(
[18:43:10] pipecloud: workmad3: But they're obviously misnomers.
[18:43:22] pipecloud: They're just objects that encapsulate data and behaviour, like anything else.
[18:44:05] pipecloud: I don't know that the use of 'certain' is necessary.
[18:45:51] pipecloud: ddd: Feature!
[18:46:10] pipecloud: workmad3: I don't see the value in pushing that it's grouped. All of them are just objects.
[18:46:21] pipecloud: Organize as you desire, but the concept is that it's just objects.
[18:46:38] pipecloud: Focus on the messages, organize by data and messages to your heart's content.
[18:46:50] pipecloud: workmad3: Psh, go deeper!
[18:47:05] pipecloud: Before require config/application
[18:47:17] pipecloud: As early as possible in the boot!
[18:47:34] pipecloud: Danielpk: Why are you using a plural model name?
[18:48:52] pipecloud: workmad3: that'll do well enough, I guess.
[18:49:10] pipecloud: Would rather you patch the c in ruby.
[18:49:43] pipecloud: xybre: I'm just saying that it's lumping two things.
[18:49:53] pipecloud: workmad3: Those are two points.
[18:50:19] pipecloud: One is that those objects are just objects, another is that you should organize them.
[18:50:54] pipecloud: xybre: Ohlawdy no. I'm saying that service/behaviour objects are just objects.
[18:51:06] pipecloud: As a second point beside the first, you should organize that shit.
[18:51:26] pipecloud: xybre: What pattern? OO?
[18:51:38] pipecloud: workmad3: "These are just objects. Note that they are also organized by their roles."
[18:51:47] pipecloud: xybre: Is just a misnomer.
[18:52:03] pipecloud: xybre: service object.
[18:52:39] pipecloud: xybre: If you mix the two points of just object and organization, you make it sound like the plain object is a special thing because of its organization. Does that mean other objects aren't other objects or aren't organized?
[18:53:05] pipecloud: "These are organized objects" might be confusing and cause some weird conflation.
[18:53:17] pipecloud: xybre: No reason to extend their failure.
[18:55:00] pipecloud: xybre: I'm saying that these objects are just objects. They're also organized by role. To say both at the same time makes it sound like they're just objects that are unique because they're organized.
[18:56:21] pipecloud: xybre: Are they just objects?
[18:58:03] pipecloud: xybre: So agreeing that they're just objects, is the distinguishing point between these 'behavioural objects' and others that they're organized in some manner?
[18:58:44] pipecloud: If yes, then you're saying that "Here's objects that are organized" which sounds like others aren't, because surely you wouldn't mention it unless it was some semi-unique trait of the objects.
[18:58:55] pipecloud: If no, then why mention it in the same breath?
[18:59:14] pipecloud: xybre: They should also be many things, is it really adding any kind of clarity to mention all the things they should be?
[18:59:41] pipecloud: They are just objects. Like any other object, they should be organized.
[19:00:04] pipecloud: xybre: I'd probably be old enough to retire by the time I say all that a single object should be.
[19:01:15] pipecloud: xybre: Saying that they should be organized makes it sound like others don't have to. It's like a "no shit, sherlock" thing to say.
[19:02:06] pipecloud: That's true for all things.
[19:02:22] pipecloud: Not really specific to the idea that 'behavioural objects' are just objects.
[19:02:27] pipecloud: All objects should be organized well.
[19:03:30] pipecloud: xybre: they're objects that encapsulate certain kinds of data and behaviour
[19:03:33] pipecloud: Every object does this.
[19:03:40] pipecloud: Nothing specific to behavioural!
[19:04:15] pipecloud: xybre: Then we talked about organization.
[19:04:51] pipecloud: xybre: I think there's more clarity when you say that they're just objects. Saying too much might give the wrong impression. People read into the bullshit I say for some reason.
[19:05:28] pipecloud: xybre: I think that, like all objects, they should be organized cogently, since they are just objects. I personally prefer to keep delivery separated from the rest of the system.
[19:06:20] pipecloud: So often I have multiple services, but in the case of a single place for these objects, I'd probably put them into a gem where they're broken down under a namespace for the kind of interface and behaviour they provide.
[19:07:12] pipecloud: lib/my_gem_name/adapters/database/relational/postgresql.rb
[19:08:16] pipecloud: xybre: I've called them service objects a long while, as well as behaviour objects. They're just words that help people understand that the object is encapsulating some state change in the system or coordination.
[19:08:27] pipecloud: xybre: Yeah.
[19:08:48] pipecloud: xybre: It's almost like a call to "think at a higher level".
[19:09:17] pipecloud: xybre: I'm bad at picking out the exact phrasing that makes people happy. :(
[19:09:45] pipecloud: xybre: I think it's a good bridge for people learning though.
[19:10:11] pipecloud: xybre: It plays so well into what DRY is really about. Behaviour, not code.
[19:10:26] pipecloud: Make a class that expresses a behaviour that's repeated in the system.
[19:11:05] pipecloud: That behaviour object, what is it? A service, sure, a coordinator, probably, what's unique about it though? Nothing because it just does what OO is for. Message passing and encapsulation of data and behaviour.
[19:11:46] pipecloud: If I say service object, it's just a hint to think about some verb'ing of some nouns.
[19:11:58] pipecloud: A thing doer.
[19:12:24] pipecloud: xybre: It should describe it's purpose and intent, definitely!
[19:12:34] pipecloud: All objects should live under this regime.
[19:12:59] pipecloud: True story there.
[19:13:14] pipecloud: I've got to pear with a bruvgrammer lady now.
[19:13:59] pipecloud: She makes more inappropriate jokes than I do.
[19:14:27] pipecloud: ddd: I'm concerned that I might end up in a pickle though. D:
[22:50:17] pipecloud: jsilver_: Check the source. :D
[22:50:25] pipecloud: It doesn't but, but it may suck. :D
[22:55:32] pipecloud: jsilver_: It's more of a hook.