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[15:26:27] volty: nmpribeiro: seems the install script of compass pretends to install where it shouldn t
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[22:37:11] volty: something like this: str = IO.read ... ; str.encode!( 'UTF-8', 'ISO-8859-1', invalid: :replace ) unless str.valid_encoding? ?
[22:41:38] volty: Sorry, can't get it.
[22:44:08] volty: and how are you going to fix it, hopefully forever ?
[22:45:41] volty: try to force re-encoding and see if it makes diff, and what is the diff
[22:46:26] volty: i have a question. I forgot about closures. Need a func timeTrue(n) that when called returns true the first n times, then false
[22:46:42] volty: timesTrue(n)
[23:09:44] volty: Do we have real threads (apart jruby) now ?
[23:09:59] volty: native, I mean
[23:15:17] volty: thx havenwood


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[03:17:16] volty: isn't a simple hash sufficient for the purpose of having unique-by-name instances ?
[03:18:18] volty: easy for working, uneasy for playing
[03:23:53] volty: PorcoRex: I didn't read your code. How do you access your instances?
[03:24:04] volty: myself would do something like
[03:24:47] volty: >> class MyObj;end; h = {}; h ||= MyObj.new
[03:25:24] volty: >> class MyObj;end; h = {}; h[:ref_A] ||= MyObj.new
[03:26:30] volty: and if that is enough, we can hide the hash inside a class or module
[03:27:47] volty: What is the difference if the instance is inside a hash or elsewhere ?
[03:28:26] volty: anyway those instances will be somewhere
[03:29:22] volty: I think it can be made thread safe too.
[03:35:26] volty: PorcoRex: imho you are polluting classes' initializers with the key
[03:35:42] volty: far from clean and transparent
[03:36:59] volty: One has to (re)implement his classes to take into account the 'key'. No way - for me.
[03:39:32] volty: no, let's say I have already a class that I want to use with multiton
[03:40:00] volty: or let's say I have something complex classes and I don't want to bother thining about 'arg' in my initializers
[03:40:26] volty: the idea could be good, but should be implemented by other means - imho
[03:41:11] volty: for example hiding out 'new' and creating instances by means of module method
[03:42:32] volty: take mine just as hints: e.g. class Mine; extend Multiton; end; end; mine_1 = Mine[:first] // or something like that
[03:42:58] volty: the name should be given as arg in initialize
[03:43:05] volty: ops, shouldn't
[03:45:00] volty: I mean define [] on module (if possibile, can't remember now), or something similar, alias new, hide it, and call it from the module method that takes arg as name
[03:45:43] volty: imho it is going to be more clean
[03:47:02] volty: you can then implement it as hash or use the (almost) very same code of yours
[03:47:51] volty: nop, named instances are special case, and should be obtained by special means, without polluting initializers
[03:48:45] volty: you'll realize that as soon as you'll need real class cases
[03:57:26] volty: sorry, forgot the limits of default singletons, but anyway for myself I do not care whether ruby's default singletons have params or not. If I was to implement this, I would go for singletons with params. and with whatever else possible
[04:04:28] volty: just one instance -- the 'different parameters' get ignored if already initialized (with initial parameters)
[04:06:22] volty: it all depends on what you need
[04:08:45] volty: can't we reimplement Singleton.instance, aka SingletonParam < Singleton; and there allow params to be passed to aliased new ? why not
[04:11:25] volty: Yes. I like it simple outside and complicated inside (the libs).
[04:14:24] volty: PorcoRex: I see the multiton as a factory. So I prefer to create those objects calling a class method (as factory)
[04:15:51] volty: But I do not understand your 'remote system' case.
[04:18:29] volty: writing good libraries is an art, writing abstract libraries is an abstract art :)
[04:19:22] volty: you can use class variables and constants
[04:19:27] volty: for that purpose
[04:21:14] volty: better streamlined than singletons
[04:22:06] volty: you have hashes, structs and openstructs
[04:22:34] volty: more than enough. leave the patterners pattern about their patterns
[04:26:33] volty: I do not question your code. The code is nice. What I question is the purpose.
[04:27:48] volty: Think about a concrete case. When are you going to need multiple parameter-less instances of a class ?
[04:28:20] volty: No, you are not going to use it, ever ! :)
[04:29:00] volty: that doesn't make sense. We have arrays and hashes for that purpose
[04:30:35] volty: you were talking about classes shutting an 'arg'. Are you going to subclass URL for the sole purpose of extending it with a multiton? Take a sleep, dream about it for a while, and you'll realize it's a nightmare
[04:32:49] volty: Whatever. Whatever they are, they have to be different, and to be different, you have to initialize them differently (by means of parameters of course, otherwise it gets too messy)
[04:34:15] volty: Sorry PorcoRex, but the question isn't if it is best for you. The question imho is if there's a case in the whole universe
[04:36:32] volty: Look. Apart my innate allergy to 'patterns', if left free to pattern, the patterners will pattern the 'spiting behind' too.
[04:36:46] volty: Used where?
[04:39:20] volty: It says: Implementations - In Java, the multiton pattern can be implemented using an enumerated type.
[04:39:27] volty: I say: What a pattern! : )
[04:41:48] volty: I used code similar to yours to fake new & initialize on modules. But there it was interesting and useful - for the qt gui
[04:43:19] volty: qt with ruby is wonderful
[04:44:02] volty: ruby's risking to fall behind python in that respect
[04:45:45] volty: yap, that must be true, but when googling I see pythoners quite active on qt
[04:46:40] volty: anyway I am studying scala
[04:47:16] volty: oood vs worth vs complexity etc etc
[04:47:26] volty: s/oood/good/
[04:47:49] volty: how's ruby on android ?
[04:50:12] volty: was nice talking, going to take a rest, bye
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[23:01:05] volty: are you developing an AI Guess What Music I Like ?
[23:01:16] volty: (application)
[23:06:38] volty: like, dislike, download and the implied "not interested".
[23:17:21] volty: we are still biased - since bias isn't a mistake but a condition of essence
[23:18:18] volty: we pretend to believe - too often people are not ready to argue about their narrative
[23:19:33] volty: dta? I can't get it. Not used with the jargon (or it's just to late for me)
[23:20:04] volty: ah, of course :) :)
[23:20:18] volty: never trusted. Neither myself.
[23:22:39] volty: have a nice music & philosophy. going to bed and dream about eternity
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[00:06:35] volty: no, I did it in old style, then, after having resolved the problems, to keep up with being "sexy" ,rewrote it in recursive manner , and threw away the "old good donky way code"
[00:07:17] volty: Or, in other words: I do not keep archives for that purpose
[00:08:26] volty: Verity: balance between coding and learning. Keep as much more coding than learning as you can.
[00:08:59] volty: Going to grasp scale constructors inheritance. Bye
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[22:52:49] volty: what's best is getting the things done, and possibly with pleasure (of the beloved language)
[22:54:29] volty: as for the "what's poor for" - like questions, they should be sent back, and kindly asked to ask an advice in the style "I would like to do this, this, and this. Is Ruby nice for that? "
[22:57:58] volty: but if you are creative yourself you can do it alone
[22:59:31] volty: memory debugging what for ?
[23:01:42] volty: ytti: then you should better work on your expectations ?
[23:02:57] volty: ytti: for the high level langs the introspection should be enough
[23:05:43] volty: no way if your design is modular . dispose as soon as you don't need
[23:08:12] volty: Verity: go with the book, more than enough
[23:08:29] volty: (for now, and forever - - that all the rest will depend on yourself)
[23:09:02] volty: I had it from pragmatic programmers
[23:10:18] volty: the same goes for spoken languages -- just start and breath the spirit of the language
[23:13:02] volty: in c everything is a speed
[23:14:04] volty: yes, but they are too slow to write
[23:14:53] volty: and calculate too - because you need to do some calculus for the sake of choosing the fastest instructions
[23:15:21] volty: and they are already beaten by the calculus made by the compiler
[23:15:52] volty: yes, valid for the best compilers
[23:17:04] volty: I am giving a look at scala. Anybody here with some experience with scala?
[23:17:46] volty: Their channel is full but mute. They must be lost in functional
[23:19:36] volty: Me, as a beginner, just scared
[23:20:47] volty: I know enough of Ruby
[23:22:02] volty: I gave it a look and escaped. I hate Python because of formatting (among others). I used to like Haskel (as a beginner), but then realized that it's utterly useless
[23:22:35] volty: scala seems amusing and promising
[23:23:04] volty: imho haskell is totally useless. there's a video on yt where his creator states the same
[23:23:37] volty: not at all! Watch the video
[23:24:00] volty: google yourself
[23:24:29] volty: Radar: what do you mean by "not serious"?
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[23:25:03] volty: what's the matter?
[23:25:20] volty: you are not kids, are you ?
[23:25:59] volty: what do you mean? you pose as a discretional commander ?
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[23:27:03] volty: one has to have eyes to see what is big
[23:27:23] volty: slowly, just for the pleasure
[23:27:45] volty: Yes, if it is not mandatory :)
[23:29:11] volty: yes, that is the video. As for the rest, go and try doing something in Haskell (I mean beyond folding and mapping) . A gui app, among other examples
[23:36:38] volty: no, that is only a matter of polarization oo vs functional. what oo needs isn't the REAL object of a REAL class, but just the syntactic behaviour of the oo
[23:36:58] volty: what oo programmer needs i meant
[23:49:13] volty: iteration is recursion in bottom-up fashion
[23:50:21] volty: you solve the same problem, often keeping :"manual stack:
[23:52:18] volty: ah ah, not at all, it's presentation vs trasformation vs organization vs algorithm
[23:55:55] volty: look, I am a bit fuzy now but I try it in few words --- all those (almost all) functional purists attribute absolute value, without proving the same value. the truth is that we humans often get tired and fuzzy, and need breaks, and need to trace slowly etc etc. With recursions you can get lost. With manual tracing (stack) you can do it in the end.
[23:58:36] volty: of course you can grasp recursions on single lists and trees, but when it comes to more complex interactions between objects, you easily get lost and frustrated. Otherwise the very intelligent functionals would already have produced something with no-matched values.
[23:59:07] volty: My motto is "do it as you please, and do not bite me with purism"


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[00:25:45] volty: as it is true that goto's are rare
[00:26:02] volty: is your a quiz ?
[00:38:50] volty: stack frames? what goes on the stack ?
[00:41:44] volty: yes, thanks
[00:41:57] volty: but that's only one extra call per loop
[00:49:46] volty: nothing static here
[00:52:29] volty: and breaking :)
[00:53:22] volty: what can be done with this enumerator ?
[00:53:37] volty: ops, what could
[00:54:28] volty: recursive ? how that ?
[00:54:46] volty: though I understand the useless 'infinite'
[00:55:27] volty: also inside a simple loop
[01:04:02] volty: impermanence is a double expert — expert in ruby, and expert in stupid question on ruby (and I have a good nose and good memory :) )
[01:06:23] volty: never mind, dear. I have to add that I find you useful since you force people to articulate well their knowledge on ruby
[01:10:58] volty: I don't know what you mean, matthewd. I can only repeat that I have an expert nose and excellent memory of benevolent trolls
[01:13:40] volty: (I didn't know what 'uncalled for' means; went for a dictionary - that english is not my mother lang)
[01:20:45] volty: loop enumerator could find a use in functional programming constructs, but I can't imagine a case usage now.
[01:20:53] volty: cerulean: no way
[01:21:30] volty: though the next time I can state the same with other words
[01:21:45] volty: nothing to do with fear (paranoid).
[01:23:35] volty: cerulean: anyway the next time you see somebody that seems a bit too noob, try to give a look at the coherency of his not-knowledge
[01:24:46] volty: anybody here tried scala ?
[01:33:10] volty: no, it returns enumerator only without block
[01:38:19] volty: >> (1..Float::INFINITY).first(5)
[01:41:51] volty: >> (0..Float::INFINITY).lazy.map { |n| n * 2 }.first 5
[01:46:48] volty: >> def loop_naturals; (0..Float::INFINITY).to_enum; end
[01:52:09] volty: yes, but that is a limit of ruby trying to mimic the true functional languages
[01:56:49] volty: Hard Way brings hard questions. How can a newbie doubt the words of the 'hard way'?
[02:01:57] volty: our expert probably meant 'redundant' - since the chars removed by chomp do not change the result ? but his instinct tells him that we should always chomp, because chomp could change the result.
[02:04:22] volty: >> $/ = "3"; s = "33"; [s.to_i, s.chomp.to_i]
[02:04:49] volty: did I prove that he is an expert ? :)
[02:07:42] volty: impermanence: I wanted so say the same you are asking about — how can a novice imagine there could be "other difference"
[02:08:21] volty: chomp removes whatever $/ 's value is
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[16:56:31] volty: you can post an event, but you'll have to get it back with qt routines
[16:58:16] volty: I could try to answer better if you give us a simple example of what are you trying to achieve
[16:59:17] volty: if you are trying to simulate keystrokes to be consumed by other apps, you'd better go with ah-hoc external programs
[17:00:24] volty: but if you are going to consume them within your own app, you can go with qt even with no windows (but I'd have to verify this one)
[17:01:39] volty: or something like that (on linux)
[17:06:47] volty: ops, sorry, got to go away
[17:07:07] volty: could be i can give you sol for linux , wait
[17:08:07] volty: found, I use wmctrl to get a list of windows on my desk
[17:10:38] volty: as for the standard library I guess it isn't here just because almost no ruby coders need it
[17:15:35] volty: you can extend the os module calling external progs, or you can extend it writing your own c routines
[17:17:03] volty: the os's were designed for human clicking and typing
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