#ruby-offtopic - 11 July 2017
« Back 1 day Forward 1 day »
[05:21:23] havenwood: yeah, it's one of those things you don't really setup much, so it's not very practices
[16:27:14] eam: lemmie see if I can dig 'em up - basically, language aesthetics take a backseat to being able to hire several thousand engineers
[16:28:20] apeiros: dminuoso: I presume a binary double is a base2 double. ieee754 also defines decimal floats
[16:56:40] apeiros: oh, well possible oracle actually supports decimal floats. no idea. docs didn't help?
[16:57:55] apeiros: huh? I found the docs to be useful in general. not stellar, but relatively solid.
[16:58:08] dminuoso: apeiros: Maybe Im just spoiled by the high quality docs that Postgres comes with.
[17:00:14] dminuoso: eam: Something like PHP is adaptable if you are large enough if you provide your own monstrous stack of patches and tools to avoid any of the language problems -> essentially modifying the language.
[17:01:23] dminuoso: And in reality facebook has been slowly drifiting away from their PHP in the backend.
[17:02:35] dminuoso: I mean facebook created Hack to solve the issues. Im sure that Yahoo took some similar routes.
[17:03:39] dminuoso: But I agree that broad availability of engineers is definitely an important factor for small and large businesses alike.
[17:04:05] dminuoso: For large businesses to scale, and for small businesses to make it easier to find partners experienced with your software stack.
[17:04:22] Papierkorb: But how many good engineers are there? PHP having a bad reputation for shoddy code quality doesn't come from nowhere
[17:05:06] dminuoso: Papierkorb: I think it's easier to find 1_000 skilled PHP developers than it is to find 1_000 skilled C++ developers.
[17:05:19] Papierkorb: Would be interesting if PHP has exceptionally many bad devs compared to other languages, or if it's just because everyone and their code "knows" PHP
[17:05:46] VeryBewitching: I think PHP is still in use because those developers don't know any better.
[17:06:11] VeryBewitching: I was stuck with it for more than ten years and I'm glad it's in my rear-view.
[17:06:12] dminuoso: Or maybe an article. But Im afraid we dont get any car analogies or princess bridge references anymore.
[17:06:33] dminuoso: VeryBewitching: Honestly it's just a matter of tooling, conventions and culture.
[17:07:22] VeryBewitching: dminuoso: The language does have it's issues, consistency of heritage and function conventions being the two that drive me bonkers the most.
[17:07:25] Papierkorb: tbh, the PHP irc channel is the most immature coding channel I know of. There are many layed back ones .. and then there's PHP
[17:08:02] dminuoso: Papierkorb: Im fairly sure that there's some places for the skilled people to hang out... like a slack channel.. or maybe an irc channel on efnet :D
[17:08:43] VeryBewitching: dminuoso: Sure, but I've been working with it since PHP 2 FI and the community doesn't seem to care that they're wading in garbage
[17:09:22] dminuoso: VeryBewitching: If you look in the react world you start seeing some very interesting things and really well written libraries.
[17:09:49] VeryBewitching: I agree that JS both client and server-side has thankfully come quite a long way.
[17:09:56] dminuoso: Granted, it would be better if the language had static typing from the get-go (typescript has that covered for you)
[17:11:48] dminuoso: JS is inherently still crap. It requires a lot of work to make it suitable for scaled production.
[17:12:50] dminuoso: flowtyped? say thanks to facebook. typescript? say thanks to microsoft. react? say thanks to fb. angular? say thanks to google. usable eslint configurations? say thanks to airbnb
[17:14:16] VeryBewitching: Some of the PHP teams out there have provided a good deal of assistance in that matter, but the horde as a whole doesn't realize the mess they're living with. There are much better ways to skin a cat imo
[17:14:19] Papierkorb: At that point, you're using JS as virtual machine of sorts. It's not JS anymore - Which may be a good thing.
[17:14:43] Papierkorb: Though I've been happy for my small things with pure JS ES6 without-bullshit.
[17:15:27] VeryBewitching: Papierkorb: I know some very zealous WordPress coders who happen to think they found the grail
[17:16:01] VeryBewitching: Building applications in a blog platform turned CMS makes my proverbial skin itch something terrible
[17:17:25] Papierkorb: ... okay, I admit it, I do get a chuckle out of it whenever some super popular WP plugin has a really stupid vulnerability reported. Thank goodness I have nothing to do with that crap.
[17:19:40] Papierkorb: You'd think that after all those years, these codebases would be battle tested and hardened. But nope.
[17:20:18] dminuoso: Papierkorb: From what I can tell the JS libraries that have been developed from healthy cultures (say within the confines of facebook or google) are extremely solid.
[17:20:44] dminuoso: I can't recall any even half-way usable JS UI framework library that was developed not from an internal need, but rather as a "fan project"
[17:22:29] dminuoso: Not sure about ember, but Im willing to bet that the core contributors work for yahoo or twitch
[17:23:50] Papierkorb: I don't like any of them. But I'm also not a webdev aficionado. my train's heading elsewhere.
[17:26:44] dminuoso: baweaver: Even projects like the Linux kernel are only as rock solid because thousands of companies have software developers hired with the permission to submit patches..
[17:26:44] dminuoso: The bulk of contributions in Linux comes from the industry, not hobby developers.