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#ruby-offtopic - 05 November 2017

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[03:29:50] apeiros: 3.4TB compressed to 36 bytes. cool story 😂
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[06:04:54] baweaver: Mentioned it on rails offtopic, but I'm writing a complete n00b intro to Ruby called: An Illustrated Guide to Ruby
[06:05:02] baweaver: reviewers welcome :)
[06:05:34] baweaver: The book itself will be free, I just want to try and lower the barrier to entry a bit more
[06:11:14] baweaver: apeiros: How'd you like that dark twist around 12?
[06:35:36] apeiros: before it I barely found it worthwhile to watch. now it starts to be interesting.
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[16:27:14] Papierkorb: It feels weird how closed down everything else is compared to IT. You can learn practically everything in IT through free, high-quality resources. I know I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. But when I look for photography stuff, there's some material for sure, but way less in quantity
[16:53:44] apeiros: Papierkorb: well, in 5-10y photogaphy will be 99% "point camera in general direction, let AI choose and enhance good pictures, choose your favorite"
[16:54:26] Papierkorb: Well with or without AI, it's what people already do. The point-and-shoot camera is dead, for good reasons!
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[16:55:25] Papierkorb: The professional camera market is doing better than ever actually. An AI can help you choose maybe, or suggest nice coloring or whatever, and that's what many with their phones care about. That's fine. But the pro stuff won't actually die out. I doubt it.
[16:55:45] Papierkorb: Well, I wouldn't want to photograph for a living, not my cup of tea.
[16:56:25] Papierkorb: Also, AI is never something original. Those "big pictures" aren't simply in their grasp, let alone because they can't manipulate the environment like a human can.
[16:56:45] nofxx: AI to improve pics?
[16:57:11] nofxx: agree with you, can't beat physics
[16:58:33] Papierkorb: nofxx: You can build an application to e.g. to auto retouching of faces, or removing people in the background
[16:58:35] apeiros: you're a bit early with "never" re AI ;-)
[16:58:44] Papierkorb: I'd actually applaud that, those things just waste time
[16:59:18] elomatreb: I'm really excited for machine-assisted art and culture
[16:59:38] Papierkorb: apeiros: AI simply can't do something original, not in the way we define them now. ML is like the borg: Can do what it's seen, but can't understand what it can't inspect
[16:59:39] apeiros: there's also already AIs "hallucinating" missing details in pics
[17:00:15] apeiros: Papierkorb: I bet you it'll be less than 10y when you won't be able whether original art is from a human or an AI
[17:00:31] apeiros: *won't be able to distinguish/figure out
[17:00:37] elomatreb: You could argue that we can't either (can you think of a truly alien concept?), we are just trained more
[17:00:48] Papierkorb: Well that's because real originality is scarce, even today, and has always been
[17:01:01] apeiros: what is real originality? :)
[17:01:42] apeiros: essentially, all art is building up on existing works. so how much originality does it have to "contain" to be "original"?
[17:01:57] apeiros: and what defines whether art is "real"?
[17:02:06] elomatreb: AI discussions are always only a step away from philosophical anthropology
[17:02:08] Papierkorb: no one used the term "real"
[17:02:26] apeiros: "18:00 Papierkorb: Well that's because real originality"
[17:02:42] apeiros: ok, real as in really original
[17:03:04] apeiros: ACTION still panting a bit from sports ;-)
[17:05:20] apeiros: elomatreb: agreed. and that might not be a bad thing. might give new impulses to old topics.
[17:05:34] apeiros: I still think humanity thinks far too highly of itself
[17:06:40] elomatreb: From a very pragmatic POV I don't like it, as it disguises the real problems of current "AI" technologies. People don't understand that it is always and completely biased from the data you train it with, and treat it like an absolute, neutral source of truth
[17:08:55] apeiros: IMO that's a very real but separate problem
[17:09:20] apeiros: and by very real problem, I also mean very important/grave
[17:09:58] apeiros: one of the worst aspects of it is how it'll in all likeliness make minorities suffer even more
[17:10:41] elomatreb: Yeah, and people are seriously discussing machine learning systems assisting in sentencing and stuff
[17:12:32] Papierkorb: There's no "holy grail" technology. AI is technology. It's no holy grail like many make it out to be. Which is a serious issue
[17:13:36] Papierkorb: Though then, many also don't think that their mundane jobs are at risk, as "who would hire a computer?!". Which is kinda ironic, that they're asking such a question in a financial market system
[17:14:20] Papierkorb: I fear that some countries will hugely fuck this up
[17:15:43] elomatreb: While I do agree that further automation will have a very large effect, I don't think ML is the primary cause for that. E.g. the ability to confuse many systems completely if you have access to the training data is a problem in systems like the financial ones
[17:16:41] elomatreb: E.g. the image recognition neural nets can be confused to recognize almost anything as something completely different, just by changing pixels invisibly to the human eye
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[17:43:48] apeiros: and another "connect your screen" crash
[17:43:56] apeiros: it's about 1 in 2 atm :-S
[17:45:05] dminuoso: Just stop connecting your screen?
[17:45:22] dminuoso: That'll be $200 for this Apple genius tip.
[17:45:36] apeiros: great idea, why didn't that occur to me?
[17:46:09] dminuoso: Honestly though, can you actually walk into an apple store and get free help from a "genius" >?
[17:46:21] dminuoso: Or do they charge you triple over again?
[17:46:21] apeiros: yes and no
[17:46:31] apeiros: you can't just walk in, you need an appointment. but it's free of charge.
[17:46:41] apeiros: or rather, they'll tell you if they have to do paid service.
[17:47:16] apeiros: when I got my repaired MBP back, they cleaned the internals of my work laptop for free (opened it up and blew pressurized air through)
[17:48:06] dminuoso: What do you mean by internals?
[17:48:09] dminuoso: The backside of the keyboard?
[17:48:16] apeiros: as in inside of the laptop
[17:48:41] apeiros: when your laptop starts making weird fan sounds, it's time to do that. it probably gathered some dust.
[17:49:00] dminuoso: You think they can clean keys without too much trouble too?
[17:49:24] apeiros: if it's "just dust behind the keys", I'd expect them to, honestly.
[17:49:43] apeiros: because after all, it's apple's fuck up that the keyboard doesn't work properly under normal work conditions.
[17:49:54] dminuoso: Well, in my case it appears to be something sticky, though I have no clue what that could be. (Yes, barely got it back a months and I got keyboard issues again)
[17:49:55] apeiros: that could IMO even qualify for a mängelrüge in DE
[17:50:18] apeiros: current keyboard is a kludge
[17:50:29] dminuoso: I mean feel wise its absolutely brilliant.
[17:50:44] dminuoso: But the inability to remove keys yourself is horrid.
[17:50:48] apeiros: meh, no, I don't like how it feels either, even after giving it time to get used.
[17:50:57] apeiros: it's too clackedy-clack/loud
[17:50:58] dminuoso: Fair enough, Im just a big clicky fan.
[17:51:12] dminuoso: Got clicky keyboards at home and in the office. :)
[17:51:14] apeiros: you don't type while in bed with wifey trying to sleep next to you, right?
[17:51:22] dminuoso: Im not married, problem solved.
[17:51:38] apeiros: I'd have that problem without marriage too :-p
[17:51:52] dminuoso: Well, without marriage its far easier to just replace them?
[17:51:53] apeiros: only solution would be wife/gf who sleeps later than me
[17:51:59] dminuoso: In case they dont get used to it
[17:52:10] apeiros: or one which keeps me busy before sleep :o)
[17:52:50] dminuoso: Just tried pouring in some water in those keys, pushing the key a few times, and then pushing the water out with canned air.
[17:53:00] dminuoso: Seems to have worked. Lets see if the key remains unsticky :)
[17:53:12] dminuoso: If not, Ill repeat with isopropanol
[17:53:35] apeiros: terrible parts re keyboard: no proper insulation from rest of board (I mean come on, a single <0.1mm layer would have sufficed). difficult to clean. impossible to replace without replacing whole top case (which includes friggin expensive touchbar, battery and touchpad)
[17:54:31] dminuoso: Fully agree with the last points
[17:54:46] dminuoso: Oh, the battery is attached to the whole thing?
[17:54:52] dminuoso: That means I just got a fresh battery too?
[17:55:09] apeiros: if they replaced the keyboard? yes.
[17:55:35] apeiros: I mean I wouldn't even mind that if they subtracted salvageable parts from the repair price
[17:55:45] dminuoso: If this had been a personal laptop Id be giggling right now, because it was all under warranty.
[17:55:58] dminuoso: How much did they charge you?
[17:56:00] apeiros: but the 400.- almost certainly is material cost of battery+keyboard+trackpad+touchbar
[17:56:05] apeiros: 500.- total
[17:56:21] dminuoso: You can get some pretty decent laptops, new, for that.
[17:56:36] apeiros: that's also what I told the store manager rather clearly on the phone
[17:57:09] apeiros: (there was this "please rate your experience" thing after the repair which got a couple of 1's from me - upon which the question was added whether I'd mind a phone call)
[17:57:25] dminuoso: And did you mind a phone call?
[17:57:43] apeiros: no, i didn't. I clicked "yes, you can call me" and they indeed did.
[17:58:26] apeiros: and I think I was rather clear on this whole thing being inacceptable and me almost certainly stopping with apple products with the next laptop.
[17:59:08] apeiros: gtg, sirene calls
[17:59:14] apeiros: ACTION feels drawn to her
[18:00:40] Papierkorb: is that a caterpillar?
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[18:28:42] dminuoso: So. When in Star Trek something goes wrong, and they get a feedback loop from some weather station, the ships environmental systems produce fog on the ship.
[18:28:52] dminuoso: Why is it, that when I do something wrong, my program just crashes instead?
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[20:52:48] dminuoso: baweaver: fucking JS. :(
[20:53:23] dminuoso: baweaver: I just started exploring partial.lenses to great effect.
[20:53:34] dminuoso: but lack of a typing system is making this fucking hard.
[20:53:36] baweaver: Been around Ramda yet?
[20:53:41] dminuoso: Yeh, boring.
[20:54:02] baweaver: It can be fairly tame compared to some others
[20:54:10] dminuoso: baweaver: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/de13843f07336f098a34d435fc26153c
[20:54:20] dminuoso: this is what an everyday react component starts with
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[20:56:24] dminuoso: baweaver: https://www.twanvl.nl/blog/haskell/cps-functional-references
[20:56:27] dminuoso: Ever read that original article?
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[20:56:43] dminuoso: The sheer elegance is amazing.
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