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#ruby-offtopic - 15 December 2017

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[07:48:24] dminuoso: apeiros: name: "i_fib_ord_loo_pat_fib_ord_id"
[07:48:28] dminuoso: Oracle is a blessing!
[07:49:26] apeiros: you have fibonacci in your oracle?
[07:49:47] apeiros: let me guess, this is an index? (i_ prefix)
[07:50:41] apeiros: also somebody doesn't follow guides, because it becomes so much more readable (*tries not to laugh while writing that*) if you just remove all vowels first
[07:51:03] dminuoso: That's an interesting thought.
[07:51:21] dminuoso: FbrOdrLpPthwayFbrOdrId
[07:51:38] dminuoso: (Kept the vowels that words might start with)
[07:52:08] apeiros: I'm not kidding you, that's the guide afair
[07:52:46] apeiros: personally, I try to cut out not-so-relevant words first, then start abbreviating those which remain somewhat readable when abbreviated, and then I start becoming desperate.
[07:52:47] dminuoso: Well I just went with autogenerated object names so far because effort.
[07:53:22] apeiros: haha, I still have a gem "oracalable" which automatically replaces all table names with numbers and keeps a "registry" and even translates error messages :)
[07:53:43] apeiros: I stopped using it because outside of rails it was impossible to work with the db anymore
[07:53:56] dminuoso: Does it integrate with SqlDeveloper?
[07:54:31] apeiros: select t1.* from t20123 t1 join t20124 t2 ON t1.id = t2.something_id join …
[07:54:34] apeiros: you can imagine the horror :)
[07:54:45] dminuoso: That looks lovely.
[07:54:45] apeiros: no. it's only for rails.
[07:54:53] dminuoso: Probably less confusing than i_fib_ord_loo_pat_fib_ord_id
[07:55:12] dminuoso: The name `oracalable` is hilarious.
[07:55:22] apeiros: well, even with that messy name, humans are still better at figuring out what that is than t<somenum>
[07:55:30] apeiros: and it lends better to tab completion too
[07:56:02] apeiros: but it's still infuriating that we have that 30 chars limit. it's ridiculous and there's no technical reason (besides "it's legacy and work to change" of course) to have that limit.
[07:56:32] apeiros: that said, I don't understand pg's 64 chars limit either. 255 makes sense. anything below is IMO arbitrary bullshit.
[07:57:22] dminuoso: Stable APIs and all that might be a factor.
[07:58:07] dminuoso: 64 you can at least reasonably work with, but with oracle its just horrid.
[07:58:50] apeiros: yes, 64 moves the issue significantly into the "rare edge cases" realm of issues.
[07:59:15] apeiros: but with autogenerated names you still can hit it easily. say a multi-column index.
[07:59:35] apeiros: index_<table_name>_<col1>…_<col_N>
[08:00:00] apeiros: and the moment you have to shorten them means you have to look out for unique name again
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[08:13:44] srandon111: hello all, how do you structure your code in the presence of a database ? imean do you useually create a single class to deal with the database and put all the method representing the queries there or more classes ?
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[08:27:07] dminuoso: srandon111: ?ot
[08:27:15] dminuoso: ?ot srandon111
[08:27:15] ruby[bot]: srandon111: this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related topics. Thanks!
[08:27:37] dminuoso: apeiros: shouldnt the bot catch that its in #ruby-offtopic?
[08:27:52] apeiros: factoids are simple canned responses. no logic.
[08:28:03] apeiros: if you want that, you need a command !ot
[08:30:39] srandon111: apeiros: i'm already in ruby--offtopic
[08:30:51] srandon111: dminuoso: look message above
[08:31:00] apeiros: srandon111: you may want to reread the flow of messages
[08:31:44] srandon111: dminuoso: i'm already in #ruby-offtopic
[08:32:36] apeiros: ACTION sights
[08:32:52] apeiros: damit, almost wrote sights again… muscle-memory, what's wrong with you?
[08:33:01] apeiros: srandon111: we are aware.
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[08:38:50] apeiros: found a new strategy.
[08:39:23] apeiros: user reports "X does not work". auto-repsonse: "X does work". effect: user replies: "no, it does not work, when I do X then Y then Z, then A and B happen instead of C"
[08:39:33] apeiros: -> hurray, useful problem description
[08:43:42] apeiros: dminuoso: I said we'd need it. we don't have it ;-)
[08:43:56] dminuoso: apeiros: Why am I so sure that this existed?
[08:44:13] dminuoso: I thought we had something that pointed people towards #ruby-offtopic-offtopic?
[08:44:18] apeiros: wishful thinking?
[08:44:20] apeiros: daydreams?
[08:44:25] dminuoso: No seriously :|
[08:44:35] apeiros: it's the best I can come up with
[08:44:48] dminuoso: Wishful thinking can get you quite far
[08:46:23] apeiros: meh, sad. nothing like "DELETE FROM table WHERE cond RETURN id" to get a list of deleted IDs :(
[08:46:32] apeiros: it can be done, but not with a simple single query.
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[09:03:43] apeiros: aaahahaha, new json spec. only change: "it must be encoded in UTF-8" (unless it's in a closed system, which is an exception they should just have left out, because in a closed system you'll just say "it's like JSON, but in <encoding>"
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[12:18:57] apeiros: hm, a 10KB single query. lovely :) (definition for a DB view)
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[17:31:40] al2o3-cr: roll on the weekend :)
[17:34:35] aScottishBoat: al2o3-cr roll what
[17:34:54] aScottishBoat: rolling pin? a cigarette? roll tide? (American football joke har har)
[17:35:18] aScottishBoat: #ruby is notorious for its humour inducing capabilities
[17:35:23] al2o3-cr: thank crunchie it's friday!
[17:37:12] al2o3-cr: where are all them nukes?
[17:43:23] apeiros: today is one of those "weird questions" days…
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[18:59:29] mikkelsen: mvp.kablamo.org I've been having fun with this :D (since I was given the OK yesterday that I can discuss my interest in perl here -- still always looking to pick at the minds of perl users)
[18:59:44] mikkelsen: (as by OK I mean I won't be disowned as a Rubyist!)
[19:00:38] nofxx1: mikkelsen, we don't forgive php... and that green snake that shouldn't be named
[19:00:55] nofxx1: ok with haskell and perl ;)
[19:01:54] mikkelsen: oooo niice sounds good :D and I didn't know I lost connection and I'm no longer aScottishBoat *sigh* I hate it when my VPN lags and I lose connection as my main username
[19:02:19] mikkelsen: I'm also wanting to try haskell oh yeah. I have to learn Elm at work... Looking forward to that
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[19:06:50] nofxx1: mikkelsen, hey whatsup...!
[19:13:28] baweaver: mikkelsen: It's fine, some of us are recovering Perl programmers who've found a better way :P
[19:16:34] baweaver: So... HTTP 301 vs 308 - thoughts?
[19:17:02] baweaver: 301 [Moved Permanently] indicates all future requests should go to new_site
[19:17:46] baweaver: 308 [Permanent Redirect] indicates all future requests should go to new_site, but disallows any modification of HTTP verbs in the process. Call a GET a GET and a POST a POST
[19:19:28] Papierkorb: 301 "I did what you posted me about, the result is over there" 308 "You wanted to POST/GET over there I guess "
[19:20:25] Papierkorb: Dunno, but e.g. when you rename a Repo in Github, it adds a permanent alias from the old to the new name. I'd use 308 for that.
[19:22:26] baweaver: Papierkorb:
[19:22:40] baweaver: </snark> :P
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[19:25:29] mikkelsen: baweaver, what are your thoughts on using perl nowadays?
[19:26:07] baweaver: What need have I for two hammers?
[19:26:16] baweaver: that's pretty well where I ended up
[19:26:16] al2o3-cr: use whatever you feel like using :P
[19:26:27] baweaver: Started with Perl, found Ruby, didn't have much reason to go back
[19:26:47] baweaver: Python, on the other hand, is cemented in a lot of data science and other fields so it has a distinct usage
[19:27:40] mikkelsen: I'm just so confused as to why so many perl guys stick to it.. Makes me feel like there is _something_ there
[19:28:23] apeiros: huge ecosystem
[19:28:42] apeiros: and perl's stuff was very well documented back when I used it
[19:28:43] baweaver: When you know one tool well, why switch?
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[19:37:01] havenwood: baweaver: python also has really nice gui bindings - every version of everything i can think of supported
[19:37:14] havenwood: ruby is more scattershot on that front
[19:37:21] havenwood: <3 Shoes DSL
[19:37:51] miah: i read that MS is considering making Python available in Excel as a scripting language too
[19:38:27] miah: and iirc Blender is largely written in Python and has scripting abilities too
[19:38:42] havenwood: mikkelsen: Perl 6 might be worth investing in for the future. We'll see!
[19:39:00] baweaver: Mascot still creeps me out
[19:39:02] miah: is perl6 a thing yet? i feel like i've heard that for like... 15+ years now
[19:39:10] mikkelsen: baweaver, I agree about the mascot
[19:39:12] havenwood: The butterfly is on acid, for sure.
[19:39:32] baweaver: The main thing with me was that I was very very new in Perl when I started into Ruby, so I had a huge jump in skill in terms of Ruby and just stuck with it
[19:40:14] mikkelsen: havenwood, I want to give p6 a shot, too, but... Yeah, I agree on the mascot. Also, it doesn't seem competitive yet
[19:40:31] mikkelsen: I'll be honest, community is massive for me, so if no one is using a language... I don't want to use it, even if it's wowzah amazing
[19:41:12] havenwood: mikkelsen: You'll have to make the thing in the language that causes people to start using it.
[19:41:50] mikkelsen: havenwood, true (btw it's aScottishBoat, my internet keeps logging me out of ASB though) but we'll see what the future holds for p6
[19:41:56] mikkelsen: seems nice and clean, syntax guys
[19:44:35] baweaver: ah, that's where you seem familiar from
[19:45:13] mikkelsen: if you ever see mikkelsen... It's still me
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[21:00:23] al2o3-cr: i can't even use the english language sometimes.
[21:14:33] mikkelsen: al2o3-cr, how so
[21:15:37] al2o3-cr: synapses shut down sometimes.
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[21:21:18] al2o3-cr: probably due to how many alcoholic chocolates i've had (yeah that's the one)
[21:22:55] apeiros: al2o3-cr: switch to spanish then
[21:24:18] al2o3-cr: apeiros: i can barely speak my own language nvm espanol.
[21:24:47] apeiros: brainfuck then
[21:25:04] apeiros: nobody will be able to tell whether the series of <!>? are making any real sense or not
[21:25:43] al2o3-cr: see, at least you're bright!
[21:28:12] apeiros: in the darkness of the universe, every single photon is
[21:28:52] al2o3-cr: still a photon?
[21:38:01] al2o3-cr: i like how shevy used to alias puts to e haha
[21:38:24] havenwood: alias g p; g'mornin'
[21:38:55] al2o3-cr: used to make piss that did
[21:39:47] al2o3-cr: what a character!
[21:40:39] apeiros: thems gone tho
[21:41:22] al2o3-cr: gone but never forgotten.
[21:41:56] apeiros: it's all dust
[21:42:26] al2o3-cr: worm food it's all the same
[21:43:10] al2o3-cr: it's all about them carbonsssss
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[21:47:15] apeiros: carbons too become dust
[21:47:25] al2o3-cr: dust is carbon
[21:47:34] apeiros: it's a metaphor
[21:47:43] apeiros: it'll decompose to something simpler
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[21:48:09] al2o3-cr: yeah carbon
[21:48:30] al2o3-cr: you can't get simpler then carbon
[21:49:49] jhass: eh, cat ran across keyboard :P
[21:49:50] al2o3-cr: hydrogen pretty simple like me :P
[21:50:18] al2o3-cr: what your cat called?
[21:50:32] al2o3-cr: and dont say garfield
[21:54:26] al2o3-cr: i wanna get a lenovo x270
[21:55:07] ljarvis: i want an imac pro
[21:55:39] al2o3-cr: what are them?
[21:56:26] ljarvis: the new $5k machines apple just released
[21:56:32] apeiros: ljarvis: even if I'd want a desktop again, I couldn't justify an imac pro. I'd rather wait for the next mac pro
[21:56:49] ljarvis: oh totally, i could never justify that thing
[21:56:53] apeiros: it's dead money. want a bigger hard drive? buy a new one. want more ram? buy a new one.
[21:56:59] ljarvis: 5k is the base price, too..
[21:57:09] apeiros: well, that's not really my problem.
[21:57:13] apeiros: my current setup cost more.
[21:57:16] ljarvis: i heard apple only can do upgrades, but yeah
[21:57:25] apeiros: only when buying afaik
[21:57:29] al2o3-cr: never been a mac user tbh
[21:57:34] apeiros: bought config is final config.
[21:57:38] ljarvis: apeiros: you have a mac pro atm?
[21:57:44] apeiros: macbook pro
[21:57:50] ljarvis: apeiros: i've heard that's not true (final config)
[21:57:56] al2o3-cr: apeiros: 15 or 17?
[21:57:58] apeiros: ljarvis: interesting
[21:58:10] apeiros: al2o3-cr: 17" haven't been produced in over 7y afaik
[21:58:15] ljarvis: apeiros: you can send it back to apple to upgrade *some* parts, but meh..
[21:58:18] apeiros: I have a 15"
[21:58:40] ljarvis: i <3 my macbook pro
[21:58:41] apeiros: ljarvis: ok, that'd be somewhat bearable, assuming it also applies to premium resellers.
[21:58:48] apeiros: I don't. I loved my 2012
[21:58:51] apeiros: I hate my 2016.
[21:58:56] ljarvis: i have a 2014
[21:58:58] ljarvis: it's awesome
[21:59:05] ljarvis: i dont want one of the new ones
[21:59:11] apeiros: yeah, stick with it until they fix the fucking keyboard.
[21:59:25] apeiros: I love the 4x TB3.
[21:59:37] apeiros: and dongles (except for HDMI) ain't no problem.
[22:00:05] ljarvis: im surprisingly attached to the magsafe port
[22:00:11] ljarvis: it's the little things
[22:00:17] apeiros: I got myself an anker 7x UBS A (3.0) hub with a USB3 B <-> USB C cable. attached it to my LG 5k. works almost like a hub.
[22:00:43] ljarvis: nice. How's that monitor? have been considering it for a while (although wont work with this machine)
[22:00:43] apeiros: a) there will be replacements (current ones only work up to 60W), b) I surprisingly don't miss it
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[22:01:02] apeiros: and c) I *love* how I can charge *everything* on my laptop power supply. wii, iphone, ipad :)
[22:01:08] apeiros: errr, switch, not wii
[22:01:19] ljarvis: yeah that's a nice bonus
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[22:01:44] apeiros: I love the screen. but ever since they repaired my mbp, it crashes about 1 out of 3 times I connect it.
[22:01:52] al2o3-cr: you two are dual booting linux right?
[22:01:54] ljarvis: that's bad :/
[22:02:05] ljarvis: al2o3-cr: nope
[22:02:32] ljarvis: i use linux enough in my servers, where it's meant to be used :D
[22:03:00] apeiros: al2o3-cr: no
[22:03:07] al2o3-cr: i'd disagree but fair enough.
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[22:03:26] apeiros: the things I do run without modifications on either OS
[22:03:57] ljarvis: fwiw im an ex-linux user who stage-3'd gentoo for ~5 years, i loved it but don't regret moving to macs
[22:04:44] ljarvis: i just don't want to hack around with my local machine anymore, i want to open it and everything work, which is what macos (generally) gives me
[22:04:49] al2o3-cr: nah openbsd is decent enough
[22:06:01] apeiros: same as ljarvis. though the "everything works" is not as good as it used to be IMO.
[22:06:13] apeiros: and I don't get why apple doesn't just invest a couple of billions in QA
[22:06:21] apeiros: I mean they fucking have it.
[22:06:27] apeiros: it's not rocket science.
[22:06:32] ljarvis: well because ios
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[22:06:50] apeiros: QA is one kind of problem you can actually tackle with "get more people"
[22:07:45] apeiros: assuming you have a good coding culture with tests where you can onboard a team relatively effortlessly (as in: core team doesn't get overhead, the "fixxers" onboard themselves, it just takes time, aka money)
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[22:08:13] al2o3-cr: macintosh II and mac all in one the screen was like []
[22:08:35] al2o3-cr: i can't remember what it was called, it was only small
[22:08:58] apeiros: al2o3-cr: mac plus, mac SE
[22:09:09] apeiros: 512x384 BW screens
[22:09:11] al2o3-cr: let me google sec
[22:09:31] apeiros: ACTION had an SE with 20MB HD and 2.5MB Ram (that was back when 640KB was "enough for everyone")
[22:09:47] al2o3-cr: yeah it was a mac plus bloody hell
[22:09:50] apeiros: well, "I had" = "my father had" and I was allowed to use it :)
[22:10:09] al2o3-cr: that was a few years ago too.
[22:10:42] al2o3-cr: no way just brought back some memories that as.
[22:15:02] ljarvis: so today was the first day i couldn't fit an adventofcode challenge into my lunch break :(
[22:16:48] al2o3-cr: 3/25 not bad yeah :P
[22:17:27] al2o3-cr: ljarvis: yeserdays?
[22:17:48] ljarvis: er yes, wow where did that day go
[22:18:13] ljarvis: the description alone took most of my time to get my head around :/
[22:19:22] al2o3-cr: some are hard
[22:19:28] al2o3-cr: some are easy
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[22:20:18] ljarvis: they've been fairly easy up to yesterday i found :)
[22:20:39] al2o3-cr: last years were harder i'll tell thee
[22:20:55] ljarvis: well, easy enough to fit into ~40 minutes lunch (+ actual lunch)
[22:21:11] ljarvis: didn't do last years, but going through 2015 and prob last years at some point too, just for fun
[22:21:53] al2o3-cr: i need to ten more yet :P
[22:22:23] al2o3-cr: i should do a day to day basis code of this shit :P
[22:22:41] al2o3-cr: been busy with work tho
[22:23:32] al2o3-cr: i swear to got i use map too much
[22:23:35] ljarvis: yeah i had planned on just going whilst i could fit them into lunch breaks
[22:23:45] ljarvis: no more :)
[22:25:01] al2o3-cr: one of the least used method is Array#fill
[22:25:30] al2o3-cr: super handy on one of last years
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[22:45:59] al2o3-cr: i'll have to think on this one.
[23:00:24] al2o3-cr: this doesn't fucking make sense.
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[23:18:23] baweaver: al2o3-cr: was about to say something along the lines of: "You don't say? Some random on the internet doesn't understand my entire pipeline?"
[23:18:30] baweaver: but decided not to
[23:24:26] al2o3-cr: best to bite your tongue sometimes
[23:25:04] baweaver: I don't have a tongue anymore from that advice al2o3-cr ;)
[23:26:09] al2o3-cr: :P thats pissed up tho
[23:32:48] al2o3-cr: baweaver: the one *thing* is, even such knowledge you think you about a about certain *thing* i'll guarantee there's 10%-15% you don't know.
[23:33:48] al2o3-cr: and that can be anything
[23:35:46] baweaver: al2o3-cr: interesting how often that 10-15% is where there's some critical bug too
[23:37:36] al2o3-cr: it's probably the end users error more often then not.
[23:43:31] baweaver: al2o3-cr: https://eval.in/920054
[23:51:33] al2o3-cr: pretty nifty use of to_proc there lemur
[23:53:24] al2o3-cr: you know what baweaver i forgotten more ruby then i know