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#ruby - 02 June 2015

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[00:18:59] shevy: "lib/mkmf.rb (pkg_config): split --libs if --libs-only-l option is not available. patch in [ruby-core:69428] by Hans Mackowiak."
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[01:04:16] noethics: in a master-slave designed application, should the slave be in charge of its own rate limiting
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[01:04:54] noethics: im leaning toward yes but i sorta like the idea of not having to block or poll or anything
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[01:06:29] bootstrappm: noethics what do you mean by master slave? I only ever hear about that in terms of DBs
[01:06:53] bootstrappm: where the concept exists because of propagation of information and all that, write to one, read from another etc.
[01:06:55] noethics: bootstrappm, just any type of distributed architecture where the master is in charge of deploying and managing nodes
[01:07:19] bootstrappm: is this user facing noethics?
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[01:07:57] havenwood: noethics: Like a supervision tree?
[01:07:58] noethics: bootstrappm, the master is
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[01:08:16] bootstrappm: what does it do? why does it need slaves?
[01:08:41] noethics: it needs slaved because that's the whole point of the application :P to distribute work
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[01:09:12] bootstrappm: so the slaves are workers then? background jobs? and the master is just a way to manage them?
[01:09:20] havenwood: noethics: https://github.com/celluloid/celluloid/wiki/Supervision%20Groups
[01:09:27] noethics: thats right
[01:10:02] bootstrappm: yeah I wouldn't consider that master-slave at all. The slaves in that case don't depend on the master at all
[01:10:25] noethics: bootstrappm, thats sort of what i have to figure out though
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[01:10:33] noethics: whether they should be dependent or not
[01:10:47] bootstrappm: and in that case yes, the slave should be in charge of its rate of doing work with an external interface if the manager needs to modify them
[01:11:05] bootstrappm: although I'm not sure why you would ever rate limit the workers / slaves if they're not user facing, they should be doing the work as fast as possible no?
[01:11:10] noethics: what do you mean external interface
[01:11:33] noethics: bootstrappm, ? what does rate limiting have to do with user facing lol
[01:11:37] noethics: how are they mutually exclusive
[01:11:52] noethics: or mutually inclusive
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[01:12:24] bootstrappm: well rate limiting refers to limiting the speed at which the slave / worker is doing something. That only makes sense to me if you want to limit the rate at which users are accessing your resources so as not to kill your server
[01:12:35] bootstrappm: without users in the picture ... I'm not sure why you would rate limit something
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[01:13:15] noethics: bootstrappm, the workers are using an api that is rate limited
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[01:13:43] bootstrappm: ahh, okay then you don't have to worry about rate limiting at all. Just have the workers try and if they get rejected, wait a while
[01:13:54] noethics: nah that's bad design imo
[01:14:07] bootstrappm: as in, you're not rate limiting your workers, you're responding to an external rate limit. two different things
[01:14:07] noethics: plus if it rejects you you get some timeout penalty
[01:14:10] bootstrappm: why bad design?
[01:14:20] noethics: it takes longer to be able to do new requests
[01:14:30] noethics: and then id have to poll to find out if its allowed to request yet
[01:15:00] bootstrappm: so you want to set a speed on the workers so they never hit the rate limit and you never get penalized?
[01:15:40] RickHull: all you can try to do is model the rate limiting on the remote end
[01:15:48] RickHull: they may still cut you off or whatever
[01:16:26] noethics: well i was thinking i could turn the master into a pull queue
[01:16:35] bootstrappm: cool, I'd share the state among all workers then. I don't think that a "master" is the best way to do that, I'd go for redis or something
[01:16:38] noethics: but i dont know the drawbacks of that
[01:16:43] noethics: possibly with longpolling
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[01:16:49] noethics: but that's sort of intensive? i don't know
[01:17:06] bootstrappm: then each worker can see if they'll put you over the rate-limit in aggregate when they're about to make the request
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[01:17:13] bootstrappm: keep it a bit under to be safe
[01:17:17] noethics: redis isn't an option per-worker
[01:17:27] noethics: the workers arent on the same box
[01:17:27] bootstrappm: what do you mean?
[01:17:40] bootstrappm: I figured, so yes, use redis
[01:17:54] bootstrappm: they all connect to the same instance
[01:17:57] bootstrappm: available over http
[01:18:03] noethics: i dont really get why that' necessary
[01:18:22] noethics: what's your reason for recommending that?
[01:18:42] bootstrappm: its not absolutely necessary. You could just set a fixed request rate on each worker and then manually work out your math so that your workers never go over your rate limit
[01:18:45] noethics: if anything i'd say beanstalkd or something might be a good choice
[01:19:01] noethics: but i'm not understanding the whole redis thing, you mean to store a time or something?
[01:19:11] bootstrappm: but if you want them to just work as fast as possible and only stop when you're close to the rate limit then shared state is the best choice
[01:19:23] bootstrappm: yes, to store how many requests you've made that hour or minute
[01:19:38] bootstrappm: and use that information in each worker to decide if you're going to keep making requests
[01:19:50] noethics: the thing is the workers dont really need to do a whole lot of processing
[01:20:02] noethics: so i think i could get away with a push-queue
[01:20:19] noethics: damn i wish i had a background in devops
[01:20:23] bootstrappm: push work to the workers?
[01:20:30] bootstrappm: how would you plan on doing that?
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[01:20:41] noethics: the workers setup an open port waiting for jobs
[01:20:45] bootstrappm: i always put the work on queue like redis and pull it from the workers end
[01:20:51] noethics: master pushes jobs to them when it decides its time
[01:21:31] noethics: redis isn't a queue though
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[01:21:55] bootstrappm: redis is data structure storage
[01:21:59] bootstrappm: a queue is a type of data structure
[01:22:08] noethics: not strictly
[01:22:24] noethics: "queue" is a blanket term
[01:22:25] havenwood: noethics: a la resque or sidekiq
[01:22:43] bootstrappm: it handles them very well, its what I've always used for the queue when I use pull based workers
[01:22:53] noethics: why not beanstalkd?
[01:23:01] noethics: ill check those out havenwood
[01:23:45] bootstrappm: use whatever floats your boat noethics, there's tons of options for queue based workers
[01:23:59] RickHull: redis indeed provides a shared queue, as in data structure
[01:24:09] RickHull: it is not a full blown MQ
[01:24:21] noethics: bootstrappm, i know, i'm just having issues deciding the best strategy
[01:24:27] noethics: it's a common problem i guess
[01:24:40] noethics: i don't work much with deployment
[01:25:02] havenwood: noethics: There's nothing wrong with beanstalkd, but Ruby options like Resque and Sidekiq work well too. Many langs now support Resque's interface as well so you have non-Ruby options if you want to swap out.
[01:25:23] Nilium: beanstalkd rocks.
[01:25:32] havenwood: noethics: e.g.: http://www.goworker.org/
[01:25:38] havenwood: noethics: or: https://github.com/jsanders/rusque
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[01:25:52] havenwood: or: https://github.com/akira/exq
[01:26:43] RickHull: here's antirez (redis) going for more of a distributed MQ: https://github.com/antirez/disque
[01:26:47] Nilium: I am slightly biased in favor of beanstalkd though, since I like things written in C and beanstalkd is fantastically small and nice.
[01:27:12] noethics: yeah Nilium i just dont know whether i should even bother with a queueor not
[01:27:22] noethics: if i use a queue it will most likely be beanstalkd
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[01:27:37] Nilium: If you need to keep a queue of work to do in the background, you probably want some sort of queue.
[01:27:54] Nilium: I tend to focus more on whether persistence is necessary and for how lon
[01:28:03] noethics: Nilium, right but i don't know if the workers need to deal with the queue
[01:28:12] noethics: the workers can just expire and get redeployed
[01:28:16] noethics: or they can request more work
[01:28:20] noethics: i don't know, ugh
[01:28:23] bootstrappm: where is that work stored noethics?
[01:28:28] bootstrappm: I think you're overcomplicating it
[01:28:29] noethics: with the master
[01:28:34] bootstrappm: there's a tried and true way of doing this
[01:28:40] bootstrappm: and its with something like resque
[01:28:48] bootstrappm: which is a job framework on top of redis
[01:29:03] Nilium: I do persistent workers that just receive more stuff when they're needed.
[01:29:13] Nilium: i.e., they don't die or expire or what have you.
[01:29:30] noethics: it seems like if you're confident in your software then that's the best way
[01:29:39] noethics: having them expire sorta mitigates memory leaks and stuff
[01:29:57] Nilium: I also write everything in Go, though, so I have slightly more confidence in what my code is doing.
[01:30:02] noethics: me too mostly
[01:30:15] noethics: my workers are going to be ruby but the master is in go
[01:30:28] Nilium: The only things that get periodic restarts are workers that're goroutine heavy, since goroutine stack memory is never released
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[01:31:02] noethics: Nilium, i just recognized your name from go-nuts, you were hating on me
[01:31:06] Nilium: And those ones just get the boot every six hours right now since they don't grow all that much.
[01:31:13] Nilium: Probably just your name.
[01:31:18] noethics: probably my old name
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[01:31:24] noethics: that you wanted me to change yesterday
[01:31:31] bnagy: nah it's not just the name :)
[01:31:34] Nilium: I wanted you to change it so everyone would shut up about it.
[01:31:39] noethics: lol bnagy too
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[01:31:50] noethics: go-nuts reunion
[01:32:03] Nilium: The Ruby/Go crossover is a weird one.
[01:32:24] Nilium: Especially since I hopped on Go since it was a nice C replacement.
[01:32:38] noethics: im switching to rust as soon as i can find time to learn it though
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[01:33:04] Nilium: I keep meaning to look at it, but it's in the category of languages that are more complicated than C++.
[01:33:13] noethics: it's complicated but clean
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[01:33:26] Nilium: And while I like C++ and the stupid things I can do with it, I don't want to pick up something harder to understand.
[01:33:33] noethics: the hardest part is the concept of ownership
[01:33:40] noethics: andd the syntax
[01:33:51] noethics: i just havent been around it for a while so a lot has changed
[01:33:58] RickHull: i feel like Rust is easier to learn than C++, from scratch
[01:34:10] noethics: yeah i know what you mean Nilium
[01:34:11] Nilium: Maybe. Depends on whether you like using the word monad, I think.
[01:34:32] RickHull: template programming, whether to use Boost, stdlib, etc
[01:34:33] Nilium: At any rate, I haven't touched Rust since it had a GC.
[01:34:36] noethics: i think knowing rust will be very rewarding soon though
[01:34:42] noethics: it really is the replacement for c/c++ imo
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[01:35:48] noethics: righto guess im going with the ol' beanstalkd and pull queues
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[01:37:44] bnagy: Rust has a GC?
[01:37:55] sevenseacat: rust just hit 1.0 recently, didnt it
[01:37:58] noethics: it doesnt need one though
[01:38:20] bnagy: Nilium: did it _used_ to have a GC?
[01:38:29] bnagy: ahhh I see
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[01:38:53] Nilium: The Rust that I used at one point is a very different language from what you'd use now.
[01:39:05] noethics: yeah, it changed so much
[01:39:05] Nilium: Hence why I don't know Rust now.
[01:39:17] Nilium: And also why I stopped trying to care.
[01:39:17] noethics: the code looks way cleaner than go code though
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[01:39:41] RickHull: Nilium: shoulda waited for 1.0 ;)
[01:39:43] RickHull: ACTION runs
[01:39:51] bnagy: I don't really care what the code looks like, tbh
[01:39:52] Nilium: Yeah, only had to wait.. how many years? >_>
[01:40:09] bnagy: or for random people's opinions about what's "clean"
[01:40:17] noethics: bnagy, dont you feel all clunky writing go code
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[01:40:46] bnagy: I do want a lot of rust stuff, I just can't use it yet for real software. They'll get there I guess, one day.
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[01:41:14] noethics: i mean, i think java even feels nicer to program with than go. but go has the features i want for now
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[01:41:34] bootstrappm: java feels nice to program? where am I? I thought this was #ruby
[01:41:46] noethics: do you use it
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[01:42:41] noethics: bootstrappm, with vim macros java isnt even as bad as people make it out to be
[01:42:48] bootstrappm: nope, want to but for performance reasons / the added library. Wouldn't willingly program in java because it is most decidedly not nice to program in
[01:42:50] noethics: if you're rolling around on eclipse then yeah you're gonna have a bad time
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[01:43:18] bnagy: bootstrappm: jruby is the most performant ruby implementation
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[01:43:41] bnagy: unless your only use case is ported 8 line bash scripts
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[01:44:07] bnagy: oic.. I misread your 'but' there
[01:44:09] bootstrappm: mmm, no. vim since forever. java is this: http://www.developermemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/java-problem-factory.jpg
[01:44:10] bnagy: ACTION drinks more coffee
[01:44:24] bootstrappm: yeah agreed bnagy, thats why i want to use it - haven't gotten around to it yet
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[01:44:59] noethics: i think i may be the only person that likes using java
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[01:45:13] bnagy: there's notch
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[01:45:36] noethics: what language can you use such a wide variety of design patterns
[01:45:49] existensil: I like java. I like ruby more so I made the switch, but Java is OK in my book. Verbose, but powerful. The JVM is pretty awesome.
[01:45:51] RickHull: like an AbstractFactoryImplFactoryFactory
[01:46:04] noethics: RickHull, autocomplete m8
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[01:46:13] bnagy: oh, the JVM is awesome on skates
[01:46:24] bnagy: it's just Java that is a PITA :)
[01:46:27] noethics: i type abs down tab and that's good to go
[01:46:45] RickHull: autocomplete helps for writing code
[01:46:48] RickHull: java sucks for reading code
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[01:46:55] bnagy: also the JVM profiling / debugging tools are excellent
[01:46:56] noethics: ruby is much harder to read
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[01:47:23] bnagy: which is a big win for jruby as well
[01:47:25] noethics: in java, every idiom is centered around clear and concise code basically
[01:47:32] noethics: that's why it's so verbose
[01:47:32] RickHull: concise, lol
[01:47:40] noethics: ok bad word to use there lmao
[01:47:44] bnagy: obvious troll is obvious
[01:47:44] RickHull: doublethink much?
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[01:48:01] noethics: bnagy, for once i'm not trolling
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[01:48:28] noethics: by concise i mean it's very easy to see what is where
[01:48:32] RickHull: if all you have is an ale, it's time to get hammered
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[01:48:35] noethics: it doesn't have a global namespace likr ruby
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[01:48:47] bnagy: ok well I disagree
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[01:49:17] bnagy: the way they have to try and have OO get in bed with type safety means they end up with the nasty factory / impl patterns to do generics
[01:49:29] bnagy: so you end up with three layers of crap before you can find the code that does the work
[01:49:34] noethics: or, use generics to do generics
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[01:49:53] bnagy: I can actually read ruby and know that it was written by someone that did Uni with Java
[01:50:02] bnagy: because their OO is just kooky
[01:50:19] noethics: idk how factory pattern is nasty
[01:50:20] bnagy: go take a look at the AWS ruby code, for example :)
[01:50:23] existensil: Java helped me really understand design patterns
[01:50:41] RickHull: design patterns are really just workarounds for language shortcomings
[01:50:43] existensil: ruby lets me play and have more fun and more flexibility, but I'm glad I started with Java
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[01:50:54] bootstrappm: okay all. gnight! hopefully the language wars end soon
[01:50:55] noethics: RickHull, how so?
[01:50:57] Aeyrix: ACTION started with C# then moved to Java.
[01:50:59] existensil: you still end up with lots of design patterns no matter what language
[01:51:03] RickHull: ruby doesn't have nor need a factory pattern
[01:51:14] existensil: they are just clearer and don't involve metaprogramming magic in Java
[01:51:25] noethics: maybe if it did ruby would have some presence in EE lol
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[01:51:39] existensil: I love the ruby magic, just saying... early on it was good to be exposed to very verbose methods of implementing a pattern
[01:51:41] Aeyrix: EternaLEnvY?
[01:51:50] noethics: nah c9 is trash
[01:51:54] noethics: enterprise m8
[01:52:00] Aeyrix: w o w o w o w o w
[01:52:18] Aeyrix: Alright m8 lay down your teams.
[01:52:27] Aeyrix: >inb4 tinker
[01:52:29] noethics: nah youll just call me a fanboy
[01:52:31] Aeyrix: >inb4 secret
[01:52:35] Aeyrix: >inb4 liquid
[01:52:41] Aeyrix: wait do liquid even have a team anymore?
[01:52:41] noethics: where you been m8
[01:52:43] Aeyrix: no they don't
[01:52:59] noethics: secret is topmeta
[01:53:10] Aeyrix: ohboy.gif
[01:53:45] Aeyrix: >not being an avid mouse supporter
[01:54:06] Aeyrix: mousesports
[01:54:08] noethics: they didnt even qualify for ti5 man
[01:54:13] noethics: they're knocked out
[01:54:34] noethics: whats your mmr
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[01:54:39] Aeyrix: Secret fans: http://i.imgur.com/EXRbR2Y.gif
[01:55:14] Aeyrix: ACTION doesn't play D2 anymore.
[01:55:19] Aeyrix: Too busy with Diablo m8.
[01:55:32] noethics: i dont play at all anymore either
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[01:55:54] Aeyrix: I was too garbage.
[01:56:11] noethics: i stopped at 4.5k
[01:56:11] bnagy: get a room
[01:56:34] noethics: i woulda made it to 5k spamming brood bt y'know
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[01:57:10] Aeyrix: Ursa / Bloodseeker all day every day.
[01:57:20] noethics: ya you were trench as hell for sure
[01:57:26] Aeyrix: Guaranteed trench.
[01:57:32] noethics: those heros are never in my games
[01:57:36] noethics: s/are/were/
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[01:58:06] noethics: ruby though
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[01:59:16] jfarmer: existensil As the saying goes: "One language's design patterns are another language's syntax."
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[02:00:54] existensil: yeah, often true... but I don't know of any language where best practices don't involve some design patterns of some sort.
[02:01:25] jfarmer: That's almost by definition what a design pattern _is_
[02:01:43] jfarmer: From the perspective of assembly, a function is a design pattern. From the perspective of C, objects and classes are design patterns. etc. etc.
[02:01:49] existensil: if they could all be done in syntax that would be a pretty complex grammer, and our jobs would be a lot easier
[02:01:51] jfarmer: At least that's how I see it
[02:02:12] noethics: that's clearly not what people mean when they refer to design patterns
[02:02:25] existensil: you are kind of correct, but you build abstractions on top other abstractions. at a certain point the syntax of a language won't be able to solve it for you.
[02:03:13] noethics: honestly the whole argument against design patterns seems to be only people who either are C gods (no one is in this argument), and people who have never managed a codebase over 1k lines of code
[02:03:27] jfarmer: noethics Who's arguing against design patterns?
[02:03:44] eam: I don't think anyone argues against design patterns, most especially not people who use C
[02:03:48] noethics: sorry, arguing that a language sucks because it's idiomatic to use a multitude of design patterns
[02:03:54] jfarmer: People in C use design patterns all the time.
[02:04:10] eam: btw who said ruby doesn't have factories
[02:04:20] existensil: A language might obviate the need for a explicit factory patterns or singleton patterns or whatever, and make implementing a registry pattern easier or make flywheel patterns simple to write... but no matter how many concepts are included in the box we'll need to build new ones on top
[02:04:23] noethics: if you call those design patterns. like what? function pointers?
[02:04:31] noethics: those are just language features
[02:04:54] eam: noethics: a struct with a function pointer is as much of an object as any ruby object
[02:05:21] noethics: i don't understand what your point is though eam
[02:05:34] noethics: what does having objects or the equivalent of an object have to do with design patterns
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[02:06:04] noethics: i'm not trying to say you're wrong i just really don't know what view you have
[02:06:31] existensil: to an assembly coder, I can see functions being a design pattern. I think jfarmer point is valid. I just don't think its valid that all patterns are potential language features or whatever else he was trying to say.
[02:06:33] jfarmer: The "abstract factory pattern" doesn't exist / is substantially different in a dynamic language like Ruby because types (i.e., classes) are run-time objects.
[02:06:37] eam: um, just responding to your comments about C
[02:06:44] jfarmer: There is no factory/product distinction in a language like Ruby
[02:06:45] eam: re: structs and function pointers
[02:06:55] noethics: eam, exactly, language features
[02:07:04] noethics: just like an object isn't a design pattern, that was my point
[02:07:10] jfarmer: Highly recommend this presentation by Peter Norvig: http://norvig.com/design-patterns/design-patterns.pdf
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[02:07:23] RickHull: i would say OOP is a design pattern
[02:07:23] eam: well, sure it is
[02:07:38] eam: OOP is a pattern of associating data with methods
[02:07:53] eam: stack variables are a design pattern
[02:08:14] eam: these are all such fundamental patterns we don't tend to consider them as such, but there are languages which don't use them
[02:08:26] noethics: those are both ways of processing data
[02:08:30] eam: for example, bourne shell has no stack variables, no locals
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[02:08:42] noethics: a struct does not process data
[02:08:47] noethics: it's simply a container
[02:09:01] RickHull: whether it processes data or not, is that an important distinction?
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[02:09:27] eam: noethics: I don't see your distinction, but regardless it's incorrect - in a von neumann architecture code = data
[02:09:54] eam: very specific example: struct containing a trampoline
[02:09:55] noethics: ok i'm data, you're data
[02:09:57] noethics: everything is data
[02:10:05] jfarmer: You can make structs do anything you can do with classes and objects, but it's enforced by human discipline and not the language.
[02:10:13] eam: ruby's method dispatch tables = struct
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[02:10:31] noethics: you can't make structs _do_ anything
[02:10:44] shevy: this is how to discuss things:
[02:10:46] shevy: http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b5/2014-09-19-1062sea.png
[02:10:54] bnagy: shevy: o/
[02:10:54] eam: noethics: I can stash a method into a node in a linked list
[02:11:02] eam: then the node "does" the associated function
[02:11:17] eam: gotta afk, fun conversation :)
[02:11:19] noethics: eam, this is just going to come down to semantics
[02:11:23] jfarmer: noethics You know what I'm saying.
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[02:12:13] noethics: jfarmer, i do but i'm talking at a more pragmatic level. when someone says "hey use this design pattern", they are talking about a very known subset of techniques for handling containers of data
[02:12:19] noethics: not the containers themselves
[02:12:44] jfarmer: And I'm saying, in other languages, those containers are themselves patterns (down the ladder of abstraction)
[02:12:52] jfarmer: Or up the ladder, the patterns become containers
[02:12:55] jfarmer: (to use your distinction)
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[02:13:20] noethics: fail to see how
[02:13:33] noethics: you can contain a pattern in an operator
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[02:13:40] noethics: but that is still effectively "doing" something
[02:13:45] noethics: a struct is not
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[02:14:49] jfarmer: Not the struct itself, no, but the entirety of how your various structs are arranged and used and the (human) contract that says one is supposed to use them in a certain way.
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[02:15:22] jfarmer: I'll re-link, because Peter Norvig makes a similar point (with examples!): http://norvig.com/design-patterns/design-patterns.pdf
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[02:20:19] noethics: jfarmer, i guess you're right. i think my view of design patterns is heavily biased
[02:20:29] jfarmer: For example, in Ruby, you'd never need to implement the "abstract factory pattern" ??? you'd just pass the class in as an argument.
[02:20:58] noethics: that's true, i can think of a bunch of different examples. but when i think of "design pattern" i think of GOF
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[02:21:20] noethics: and i think i sort of try to implement those patterns in any language, even if i don't need to
[02:21:23] noethics: if i'm honest
[02:21:24] jfarmer: I agree, but the cracks show when you ask a question like "How do I implement the abstract factory pattern in Ruby?"
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[02:21:37] jfarmer: not you specifically, but say, someone coming from Java
[02:21:43] jfarmer: It's a reasonable question, but misses the point.
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[02:22:37] noethics: yeah sort of just realized how shit i am
[02:22:43] jfarmer: The "abstract factory pattern" is a contractual convention that relies on people implementing it correctly and the need for the "convention" might vanish in other languages.
[02:22:55] existensil: would be a good opportunity to demonstrate ruby's flexibility. start with the verbose example and whittle it down until the abstract factory is invisible/eliminated
[02:23:09] existensil: that PDF is a good explanation of what you were trying to say jfarmer
[02:23:26] jfarmer: Peter Norvig is a smarter man than I am, no doubt. :D
[02:23:33] noethics: i think. it's fair to say some languages are objectively better than others
[02:23:40] noethics: based on this new revelation
[02:23:50] existensil: * > javascript
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[02:24:15] bnagy: soe languages are definitely objectively better, but then there's also a big layer on top
[02:24:22] noethics: i mean, if there were a language that accomplished all of what ruby did but faster, then it would be better than ruby
[02:24:32] bnagy: which is "how well does language X reflect the way I think about telling a computer what to do"
[02:24:36] bnagy: which is purely subjective
[02:24:40] noethics: but the fuzziness would come from tradeoffs, which seems to be a problem at the moment
[02:25:00] existensil: also "How well does language X solve problem Y" .. the answer will vary greatly depending on what Y is
[02:25:31] existensil: even in your example, bnagy, this ruby-killer would fail to be as good as ruby if it didn't also have the community/ecosystem of ruby
[02:25:49] bnagy: nick mixup?
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[02:26:04] existensil: yes, meant noethics
[02:26:29] noethics: existensil, that seems like more of the 'fuzziness' bit
[02:26:43] noethics: you can't say it would fail to be better just because of that
[02:26:50] existensil: ruby-killer might do everything ruby does faster, but if I can't use some random ruby gem with a C extension in it and I need to for a problem, then suddenly ruby looks good again
[02:27:32] noethics: well in that example the ruby killer wouldn't have accomplished everything ruby does
[02:28:04] noethics: or do you mean just the human element
[02:28:10] existensil: just pointing out that "objectively better" depends tremendously on context, and there is no context in which you get to make such an apples-to-apples comparison in a perfect "everything works the same" vaccum
[02:28:14] existensil: cause it never works that way
[02:28:14] noethics: going forward you mean
[02:28:45] noethics: i'm talking strictly languages
[02:28:51] pontiki: what is an objective measure of better?
[02:28:59] noethics: just because no one uses the ruby killer doesn't mean it's not better
[02:29:07] noethics: even if NO ONE uses it
[02:29:10] noethics: not one single person
[02:29:29] existensil: we generally, as humans, aren't smart enough to evaluate objectively whether one language is better than another, even for a narrow task, without going ahead and solving the task in both
[02:29:29] pontiki: is this the betamax argument?
[02:29:33] jfarmer: for some definition of better, sure
[02:30:08] noethics: i'm talking about if it could do everything ruby can, it eliminates all of the design problems that ruby does, syntactically, but it runs faster than ruby
[02:30:15] existensil: and even then, you wouldn't know for sure you took the best possible approach with both languages. maybe someone could have solved in better in the language you deemed lesser
[02:30:27] jfarmer: I don't really see that as related to what we were talking about. It's not as if there's some grand unified language where all design patterns vanish and become pure syntax.
[02:30:43] noethics: jfarmer, isn't that the point of "the new c/c++"
[02:30:47] noethics: or the "new" anything
[02:31:11] jfarmer: Most new languages take some ideas from previous languages or language communities and run with them.
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[02:31:35] noethics: so you think that there's no "perfect" language
[02:31:43] jfarmer: I don't even know what that means, honestly.
[02:31:55] existensil: definitely not, and we'll never live to see one
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[02:31:57] pontiki: what defines perfect in this case?
[02:32:15] existensil: we don't even have the faintest notion of what perfect looks like, much less a roadmap to it
[02:32:22] pontiki: i mean, you're tossing out evalutive remarks, but not defining the valuation system
[02:32:27] existensil: this industry is still crude and infantile
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[02:32:32] noethics: i mean if it could encapsulate every known design pattern succinctly into its syntax, it might be perfect for that time
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[02:33:14] RickHull: says nothing about performance or readability
[02:33:15] pontiki: what's actually the point of this discussion?
[02:33:27] RickHull: language flamefest
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[02:33:48] existensil: don't know. just enjoying reading/typing on the new laptop
[02:33:52] jfarmer: pontiki We were talking about the nature of design patterns
[02:33:55] jfarmer: not sure how we got here
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[02:34:41] existensil: new lappy has "developer" in the name, so I know I got the right one
[02:35:04] pontiki: wadja get? wadja get?
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[02:35:14] existensil: XPS 13 Developer Edition
[02:35:18] RickHull: it's going to meet a cute hipster in a coffee shop and run away from you. it's a dev-eloper
[02:35:24] sevenseacat: ooh i was looking at those existensil
[02:35:34] existensil: I'm enjoying it
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[02:36:47] existensil: put 15.04 on it immediately. Pretty solid with zero Dell PPAs. Suspend is a little buggy at times but has gotten better. Battery life, screen, and build, are amazing
[02:37:04] pontiki: looks nice
[02:37:23] pontiki: how's the fit and finish?
[02:37:25] noethics: existensil, you dont format immediately after you get a new computer?
[02:37:48] noethics: i thought you said it came with it
[02:37:50] existensil: noethics: in this case I did, after backing up the dell installed 14.04
[02:37:54] sevenseacat: 15.04 is pretty solid
[02:38:00] noethics: yeah i'm on15.04 atm
[02:38:02] sevenseacat: had many problems with 14.10, all fixed in 15.04
[02:38:13] noethics: too bad i broke mine
[02:38:17] noethics: i'm too lazy to reinstall
[02:38:20] existensil: trackpad works well. intertial two finger scrolling is flawless
[02:38:23] sevenseacat: but now im on a macbook, so eh
[02:38:30] noethics: i basically did
[02:38:35] noethics: sudo apt-get purge *unity*
[02:38:37] pontiki: i just received a kirabook, if i ever get some time it will have 15.04 on it
[02:38:45] existensil: works so much like my macbook i keep trying to use other trackpad gestures with it
[02:38:46] sevenseacat: i like unity, i miss it
[02:39:02] noethics: what do you miss about it
[02:39:08] sevenseacat: about the only thing l like more about this mbp is the screen
[02:39:23] sevenseacat: like more than my old samsung series 9 laptop
[02:39:44] existensil: XPS 13 is a definite step up from the macbook air I had
[02:39:58] pontiki: did you get the 3200 display?
[02:39:58] sevenseacat: ah i have a rMBP :)
[02:40:10] existensil: no, I went 1080P
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[02:40:28] existensil: still pretty high PPI really, and much much better battery life and cheaper
[02:40:45] existensil: nice matte finish, amazing colors and viewing angles
[02:41:11] pontiki: what's the case material?
[02:41:14] sevenseacat: i find it odd that theyre only 8GB RAM
[02:41:53] existensil: outside is solid peice of anodized aluminum on both halves. inside is a soft-touch carbon fiber
[02:42:19] existensil: feels much nicer to rest my palms on than the aluminum unibody of the macbook air
[02:42:46] existensil: kind of feels like the back of a Motorola X if you've held one
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[02:43:14] sevenseacat: oh i love my moto x
[02:43:15] pontiki: i've had two droids, i think its the same stuff
[02:43:53] sevenseacat: the back is awesome, but that means it will attract grease and fingerprints like a mofo
[02:44:02] existensil: it does do that a little
[02:44:10] existensil: i throw a microfibre in my bag now
[02:44:42] existensil: I don't perspire as much as most, but it still shows smudges a bit sometimes
[02:44:56] existensil: had it about 3 weeks
[02:45:04] sevenseacat: i would have huge palm prints ingrained on the laptop in like a week
[02:46:01] existensil: the tiny bezel is definitely a sight worth seeing
[02:46:07] existensil: looks fantastic
[02:46:43] existensil: its like they took a macbook air and cut the crusts off of it all the way round
[02:46:48] RickHull: i read reports that the super hi res screen is problematic for a lot of the app ecosystem
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[02:47:36] existensil: yeah, I was worried about the high DPi scaling. once i saw diminished battery life I knew the 1080P was for me
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[02:47:52] existensil: its still a gorgeous display and 13" @ 1080P is still very sharp
[02:48:13] existensil: I have to zoom in on websites occasionally
[02:49:53] existensil: runs ruby nicely :-P
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[02:50:49] Elboerea: alias in Ruby is similar to typedef/using in C++?
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[02:53:10] RickHull: heh, i was just reading this http://blog.bigbinary.com/2012/01/08/alias-vs-alias-method.html
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[03:02:48] Ox0dea: Elboerea: alias creates a copy of a method under another name.
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[03:05:07] Elboerea: Differences from C
[03:05:09] Elboerea: "There?s no macros or preprocessor. No casts. No pointers (nor pointer arithmetic). No typedefs, sizeof, nor enums."
[03:05:15] Elboerea: I think that needs to change then.
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[03:06:04] Ox0dea: You don't *need* any of those things to write quality Ruby code, so why would you want them?
[03:06:27] Elboerea: Your argument is invalid.
[03:06:33] Elboerea: You don't know what I need or not.
[03:06:46] Ox0dea: You would have asked for faster horses.
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[03:09:14] noethics: Elboerea, if you want those things yer in the wrong place m8
[03:09:33] miah: i want faster cyborg horses
[03:09:33] Elboerea: I'm referring to typedefs aka alias
[03:09:52] RickHull: Elboerea: what's the question again?
[03:09:56] Ox0dea: noethics: For what it's worth, Ruby basically does have all of those things.
[03:10:11] Elboerea: <Elboerea> alias in Ruby is similar to typedef/using in C++?
[03:10:22] RickHull: Elboerea: did you get an answer to that?
[03:10:33] RickHull: or is there still something unclear for you?
[03:10:45] Elboerea: alias is used only for methods?
[03:10:58] noethics: i heard of types once
[03:11:18] noethics: didnt really understand them so i went back to nodejs
[03:11:25] Elboerea: noethics, That doesn't work.
[03:11:37] Elboerea: So I guess they are for methods only, yes.
[03:11:57] bnagy: Elboerea: yes, alias is for methods
[03:12:12] bnagy: but classes are first class variables
[03:12:22] Elboerea: what do you mean?
[03:12:51] bnagy: that the class of an object can be stored as a variable
[03:13:03] Elboerea: Node.js .. just give Elixir few months and see Node dying out :))
[03:13:14] Ox0dea: Class names are just regular-ol' constants.
[03:13:21] RickHull: Elboerea: i'd love to see that, but not holding my breath
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[03:13:54] bnagy: Elboerea: idiomatic ruby tends to use duck-typing though, so the whole type safety / checking angle isn't really a Thing
[03:14:17] Elboerea: bnagy, Yea I did read that :)
[03:14:23] Elboerea: RickHull, Heh. They doing a great job really.
[03:14:42] bnagy: so most of the reason I'd use typedef in C doesn't really apply to ruby
[03:14:50] RickHull: imho, Elixir has all of my favorite things from ruby, adds a bunch of cool shit, and leaves some crap behind
[03:15:34] noethics: how much does it bench tho
[03:15:51] Ox0dea: Does it even liftM2?
[03:15:55] RickHull: 185 furlongs per hogshead
[03:15:58] Elboerea: bnagy, Yea that's right.
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[03:16:50] Elboerea: It seems like many rubyists favor Elixir.
[03:16:59] sevenseacat: i'm learning elixir.
[03:17:18] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Any feedback?
[03:17:27] noethics: is there a good reason for learning it
[03:17:33] sevenseacat: functional programming does my head in, so far.
[03:17:44] RickHull: best reasons are functional programming and Erlang/BEAM
[03:17:49] Elboerea: noethics, Concurrency and functional programming seems to be the future :)
[03:18:05] Elboerea: Time to see Erlang shine.
[03:18:21] noethics: why do you think functional programming is the future
[03:18:22] RickHull: millions of threads can't be wrong
[03:18:26] noethics: i've heard some other people say that
[03:18:36] RickHull: side effects and mutation are the mindkillers
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[03:19:25] Elboerea: sevenseacat, From what I know, it's a small language right?
[03:19:26] sevenseacat: its a very different way of thinking. still strugging to wrap my mind around it.
[03:19:39] noethics: sevenseacat, don't you spam blocks all day in ruby
[03:19:41] sevenseacat: don't know. just learning.
[03:19:56] Elboerea: Yea you will definitely become a better programming learning Elixir/Erlang.
[03:20:08] Elboerea: programmer*
[03:20:08] RickHull: here is the same project originally implemented in ruby, and reimplemented in elixir https://github.com/rickhull/conway_deathmatch
[03:20:14] sevenseacat: noethics: yes, but I also call methods on objects, and use getters and setters, and store data, and other such things :P
[03:20:15] RickHull: (see the elixir branch)
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[03:20:34] noethics: you might do well to learn a more err developed functional language first, which has a lot of resources
[03:20:38] noethics: and is less focused
[03:20:50] RickHull: btw, it doesn't show that elixir uses less code or machine resources. but it gives you a feel for the two language differences
[03:21:02] sevenseacat: eh, i'm having fun.
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[03:21:20] RickHull: in elixir you pay a little more startup cost for the BEAM VM
[03:21:25] Elboerea: noethics, Erlang is old enough and Elixir benefits from the EVM.
[03:21:29] noethics: like haskell or something
[03:21:32] sevenseacat: learning phoenix as well
[03:21:43] noethics: erlang is pretty dope
[03:21:57] noethics: i like the instathreads, but i have that with go too
[03:22:12] noethics: and i dont need to be all interpreted and stuff
[03:22:26] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Do you know if there are any books coming out for Phoenix?
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[03:22:47] sevenseacat: Elboerea: I'm toying with the idea of writing one, does that count
[03:22:50] Elboerea: Elixir books launched really fast compared to the first serious Erlang book.
[03:23:00] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Yea of course :)
[03:23:01] sevenseacat: i dont think you'll see any phoenix books until 1.0 at least.
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[03:24:32] Elboerea: I guess so.
[03:24:47] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Did you have any previous functional programming experience before Elixir?
[03:24:58] sevenseacat: Elboerea: very little. a semester at uni, ten years ago.
[03:25:29] sevenseacat: https://github.com/sevenseacat/ticketee-phoenix see me trying to learn phoenix
[03:26:20] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Woot, that split up between views and templates :)
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[03:27:22] Elboerea: The power of Erlang, the joy of Ruby - Dave
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[03:29:07] noethics: serious question, do people actually use erlang
[03:29:17] RickHull: serious answer: yes
[03:29:29] RickHull: CouchDB, Ericsson
[03:29:33] noethics: have you ever seen a job posting asking for erlang programmers
[03:29:36] Elboerea: Facebook chat is in Erlang
[03:29:40] havenwood: sevenseacat: Nice.
[03:29:53] RickHull: facebook chat -- is that whatsapp?
[03:30:27] Elboerea: Facebook chat app started as a hackathon project.
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[03:31:26] havenwood: sevenseacat: I've been having fun playing with OTP: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/2a983703bd154b7e239a
[03:31:37] Elboerea: sevenseacat, I heard that you almost put your code in modules so you can somehow change parts of your program at runtime.
[03:31:50] alxndr: noethics: Amazon, Yahoo, Facebook, Whatsapp, T-Mobile, Ericsson, and many more http://stackoverflow.com/a/1637137/303896
[03:32:07] RickHull: erlang supports hot code reloading, yes
[03:32:11] sevenseacat: havenwood: looks like magic to me lol
[03:32:56] sevenseacat: also `:timer.sleep 1000 # Hard work this is ...` lol
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[03:33:09] noethics: ic thanks for the link alxndr
[03:33:20] noethics: it seems like it's not used much though
[03:33:30] noethics: like as if it were just the engineer's preference
[03:33:32] RickHull: it is not ubiquitous like jabba
[03:33:32] Elboerea: noethics, How do you know that_
[03:33:49] noethics: i don't Elboerea that's why i said _it seems_
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[03:34:04] noethics: because i have never seen a single job posting asking for erlang developers
[03:34:10] havenwood: RickHull: I still need to add hot code swapping to my FizzBuzz GenServer... mmm, code_change/3
[03:34:16] noethics: or know anyone that actively uses it
[03:34:18] noethics: or talks about it
[03:34:20] noethics: or anything
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[03:34:25] RickHull: noethics: you've found us!
[03:34:47] RickHull: havenwood: haven't messed with it myself, yet
[03:34:54] Elboerea: noethics, They are not as many as Python developers or Ruby developers. But if you master Erlang, you can land a very, very good job.
[03:34:56] sevenseacat: ACTION walks into a conversation about erlang "NOBODY EVER TALKS ABOUT ERLANG"
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[03:35:21] noethics: i mean i've heard elixir dropped in this channel a few times
[03:35:24] failshell: has joined #ruby
[03:35:27] noethics: but that's loosely relevant :p
[03:35:31] RickHull: elixir is the bridge from ruby to erlang
[03:35:44] bnagy: FLY YOU FOOLS
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[03:35:46] Elboerea: noethics, Elixir - The power of Erlang, the joy of Ruby.
[03:35:53] RickHull: elixir comes up, and then erlang comes up, and then lots of erlang questions
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[03:36:16] Elboerea: and in #erlang
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[03:36:34] noethics: no one's ever like HEY MAN IF YOU NEED THAT KIND OF CONCURRENCY GO USE ERLANG
[03:36:46] noethics: idk, just seems either underused or not relevant
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[03:37:29] existensil: I've heard almost exactly that before (if you need that kind of concurrency, go use erlang)
[03:37:38] existensil: also seen erlang replaced with Go
[03:37:48] noethics: yeah that's all i can think about
[03:38:01] noethics: go offers the same solution for concurrency atleast
[03:38:08] Elboerea: No, it does not.
[03:38:18] Elboerea: Nothing beats Erlang when it comes down to specific tasks such as concurrency.
[03:38:35] RickHull: supervisors are baked in
[03:38:39] RickHull: it's a design pattern yo
[03:38:58] noethics: you mean like channels that go has
[03:38:59] RickHull: also millions of lightweight threads. i'm not sure how go stacks up, but i doubt it
[03:39:05] noethics: go has exactly that
[03:39:14] noethics: they're called go routines
[03:39:31] Elboerea: noethics, And btw, ruby-lang.org uses Erlang :)
[03:39:35] RickHull: i don't think they reach the same scale, but i'm happy to learn
[03:39:39] havenwood: sevenseacat: Your Phoenix app looks like magic to me. I've been meaning to study up on Phoenix but haven't gotten to it yet.
[03:39:56] noethics: idk, does erlang compile to machine code?
[03:39:59] noethics: it does, right?
[03:40:03] RickHull: BEAM bytecode
[03:40:17] noethics: so it's interpreted
[03:40:23] RickHull: just like the JVM
[03:40:23] sevenseacat: so far (basic crud), its very similar to rails, excepting changesets for dealing with changes to a record
[03:41:10] noethics: http://stackoverflow.com/a/8534711
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[03:41:26] bnagy: I can't think of any modern languages for which a binary / interpreted dichotomy makes any sense these days
[03:41:49] bnagy: I mean your cpu is basically a bytecode VM anyway
[03:41:59] RickHull: bash is pretty much interpreted right?
[03:42:11] RickHull: (not modern)
[03:42:13] bnagy: what you think of as machine code, CPU engineers think is a HLL
[03:42:45] RickHull: you can pry my registers from my cold dead hands
[03:43:19] bnagy: so it doesn't really make much sense to use it as a broad-brush "this will / will not perform" metric
[03:43:53] bnagy: a bad C compiler will emit code that's slower for many things than java on latest jvm
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[03:44:13] Ox0dea: bnagy: Who uses bad C compilers?
[03:44:32] bnagy: some people would argue that even a good C compiler is close enough that it's not worth bothering :P
[03:44:34] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Do you see Phoenix being an all around web development framework as Rails or having a specific niche?
[03:44:58] RickHull: Elboerea: i think Phoenix wants to out-Rails Rails, in the best possible way
[03:45:08] existensil: even a good C compiler may have trouble exceeding the performance of similar java code running on a warmed JVM
[03:45:15] RickHull: namely avoiding bloat and too wide of a scope, but also being very general purpose
[03:45:15] Elboerea: RickHull, Do you see it happening?
[03:45:23] sevenseacat: Elboerea: all-round web development.
[03:45:28] noethics: existensil, i thought that too but nah. you may be thinking of c++
[03:45:32] bnagy: see, I predicted that some people might argue that ;)
[03:45:39] noethics: C still smashes java basically, even when factoring in JIT
[03:45:51] Ox0dea: "Smashes" is hyperbolic.
[03:45:51] Elboerea: existensil, It's not about performance, it's about performance control which you get with C++.
[03:46:11] noethics: if i say "30x faster" for some specific operations would you say it's hyperbolic lol
[03:46:20] RickHull: Elboerea: imho that depends less on Phoenix proper and more on the Ruby vs Elixir platform and ecosystem
[03:46:35] RickHull: noethics: so long as you name the specifics :)
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[03:46:51] havenwood: Exciting work is being done on interpreting C. Love this paper: http://www.chrisseaton.com/rubytruffle/modularity15/rubyextensions.pdf
[03:47:02] Elboerea: The thing here is that people wont invest in functional programming languages for a reason and that might slow Elixir down when it comes to popularity.
[03:47:23] noethics: if it's the future then you would presume new programmers will use it
[03:47:29] Elboerea: So it will be something like, only the geeks will be doing Elixir/Phoenix.
[03:47:31] Aeyrix: ITC: People who have "read things" about languages making assumptions.
[03:47:33] noethics: for X reasons why it's better than procedural
[03:47:35] bnagy: anyway, just saying, people romanticise C sometimes when it's not always warranted EVEN FOR performance
[03:47:36] Aeyrix: Please stop chatting garbage in my IRC window.
[03:47:40] RickHull: Elboerea: i think it will be like most of the FP world
[03:47:44] bnagy: which is the one and only reason to use C ever
[03:47:53] Elboerea: noethics, That's not true.
[03:47:59] Ox0dea: havenwood: https://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cint
[03:48:03] noethics: Elboerea, how not
[03:48:22] Elboerea: <--- bnagy, C developer for 17 years. Don't make me start :)
[03:48:32] Aeyrix: EPENISES HAVE ENTERED THE CHANNEL
[03:48:43] RickHull: TRIBES ARE FORMING
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[03:50:07] Ox0dea: >> [defined?(1.class), defined?(Fixnum)]
[03:50:08] ruboto: Ox0dea # => ["method", "constant"] (https://eval.in/374037)
[03:51:11] havenwood: Ox0dea: The neat thing about the Truffle/Graal work is you don't sacrifice performance and you can do stuff like compose the Ruby interpreter with the C interpreter to optimize across the language boundary. The numbers are dazzling.
[03:51:28] Elboerea: sevenseacat, You on Daves book about Elixir?
[03:51:54] sevenseacat: Elboerea: yeah, ive worked through the first section of it
[03:52:09] havenwood: Elboerea: I read and really enjoyed the free bits from each chapter. I need to buy a copy.
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[03:52:31] Elboerea: What the...
[03:52:36] Elboerea: everyone is into Elixir?
[03:53:01] Elboerea: you make me feel bad, I just bought Eloquent Ruby..
[03:53:04] sevenseacat: its something new and interesting, and syntactically similar to ruby.
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[03:53:14] sevenseacat: eloquent ruby is a good book.
[03:53:16] havenwood: Elboerea: We're really into Ruby too. ;)
[03:53:19] Aeyrix: I dislike Elixir.
[03:53:34] Elboerea: havenwood, :)
[03:54:00] RickHull: I found Dave's Elixir book to be about epsilon value above the official docs. very disappointed
[03:54:24] Elboerea: RickHull, Heard Elixir in Action teach you really great stuff.
[03:54:29] bnagy: havenwood: I thought truffle was a jruby magic unicorn thing
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[03:54:43] bnagy: how does elixir fit in?
[03:54:49] RickHull: what interests me most at this point is leveraging OTP and OTP patterns in elixir
[03:54:52] bnagy: imagine I have been writing ~0 ruby for 2 years :)
[03:55:47] RickHull: Elboerea: yeah, at my $new_job, there are lots of fans of the "... in Action" series, and I haven't been disappointed yet
[03:55:48] Elboerea: bnagy, I didn't even write anything serious 4 years after learning C. Became a language lawyer instead..
[03:56:08] RickHull: what's a language lawyer exactly?
[03:56:13] Elboerea: RickHull, Yea it was recommended by Jose in #elixir-lang
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[03:57:25] bnagy: Elboerea: oh I've written 10s of kloc of ruby, just not written any for a couple of years
[03:57:36] bnagy: so I'm out of date with hotnesses
[03:57:36] Elboerea: RickHull, Start by raw reading the C standard and pretty much try to understand the language itself, rules, whys and hows etc.
[03:57:51] RickHull: without actually writing it or putting it to use?!!?!?!?
[03:57:55] RickHull: i could never
[03:58:10] Elboerea: Of course you have to write, I said I didn't write anything serious.
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[03:58:21] havenwood: bnagy: Elixir isn't particularly related to Truffle/Graal, through there is Erjang and conceivably it could get Truffle/Graal support.
[03:58:24] RickHull: well that's a reasonable approach then
[03:58:38] bnagy: havenwood: what's a Graal?
[03:58:44] havenwood: bnagy: A VM.
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[03:59:51] Ox0dea: Elboerea: You've read all of ISO 9899, back to front?
[03:59:59] bnagy: so truffle compiles to graal?
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[04:00:40] Elboerea: Ox0dea, No lol. Just the C99 standard.
[04:01:06] havenwood: bnagy: Truffle is the AST framework and Graal is the VM.
[04:01:22] Ox0dea: Elboerea: What is the C99 standard if not ISO 9899
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[04:01:52] havenwood: bnagy: They've implemented a handful of languages already. The paper I linked above is a great read and is totally accessible.
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[04:02:18] bnagy: oic graal is also the compiler. Google saved me. :)
[04:02:34] bnagy: is jruby 9 truffle on by default?
[04:02:34] Elboerea: Ox0dea, Skimmed thought you said "all ISO standards". But yea, ISO 9899 or C9X.
[04:02:40] havenwood: bnagy: nope
[04:02:44] bnagy: and if not is it likely to mostly-work if I turn it on?
[04:02:55] havenwood: bnagy: It doesn't work with RubyGems yet.
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[04:03:25] havenwood: bnagy: Most of Ruby core is implemented but not much of the stdlib.
[04:03:26] bnagy: ie you can't use any gems at all?
[04:04:05] Elboerea: sevenseacat, Holy, already authentication for Phoenix???
[04:04:20] Elboerea: Or am I lost.
[04:04:39] jefus: has joined #ruby
[04:04:42] havenwood: bnagy: http://www.chrisseaton.com/rubytruffle/deoptimizing/benchmarks/
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[04:05:46] bnagy: holy crap
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[04:06:56] havenwood: bnagy: And it can optimize across language boundaries. Just damned impressive stuff.
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[04:06:59] bnagy: why is jruby1.7 < jruby9?
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[04:07:37] havenwood: bnagy: You mean why's 1.7 faster?
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[04:07:49] bnagy: yes, sry, typo
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[04:08:28] havenwood: bnagy: Many more efforts already spent on tuning performance.
[04:09:35] RickHull: i'm guessing it's not at least 9000 efforts
[04:09:58] havenwood: bnagy: They're catching it up and plan to surpass I believe.
[04:10:06] momomomomo: who and what is this we're talking about?
[04:10:19] RickHull: momomomomo: too late, you missed it already
[04:10:25] havenwood: momomomomo: http://www.chrisseaton.com/rubytruffle/
[04:10:25] momomomomo: damn internets
[04:10:35] Aeyrix: momomomomo: JRuby.
[04:10:52] momomomomo: dope love me some jruby
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[04:11:43] RickHull: is there a way to keep a hot JVM on standby (or similar) in order to achieve < 100ms CLI startup?
[04:12:20] RickHull: i.e. how would you implement `ls` in java, if you had to
[04:12:21] havenwood: RickHull: Drip
[04:13:18] havenwood: RickHull: https://github.com/jruby/jruby/wiki/Using-Drip-with-JRuby
[04:13:33] momomomomo: since when is ruby-lang invite only?
[04:13:40] RickHull: ruby-lang is kaput
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[04:13:44] RickHull: merged with #ruby
[04:13:58] RickHull: the great enmergening
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[04:14:06] havenwood: momomomomo: Consolidated.
[04:14:30] Aeyrix: What was wrong with #ruby-lang
[04:14:32] havenwood: RickHull: Other tricks: https://github.com/jruby/jruby/wiki/Improving-startup-time
[04:14:35] RickHull: June 1 2015 never forget
[04:14:39] Aeyrix: Matches the long domain name we have. :^)
[04:15:13] RickHull: Aeyrix: ruby-lang best lang
[04:15:26] RickHull: but #ruby was previously embiggened
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[04:15:36] RickHull: and so absorbed the smaller entity
[04:15:40] Aeyrix: ruby.org is garbage
[04:15:45] Aeyrix: ruby.com is also garbage
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[04:16:09] RickHull: ruby.com, still blue here
[04:16:10] Aeyrix: Tucows are assholes for pointlessly holding ruby.org for some trench-tier email service.
[04:16:11] havenwood: bnagy: I very much look forward to a fully functional Rack and RubyGems. :)
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[04:19:19] RickHull: havenwood: nice links, thx
[04:19:43] RickHull: something like drip is what I've had in mind for a while, asked around before, got funny looks
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[04:29:21] finisherr: Looking at docs for ruby 2.2.2. What happened to the test package?
[04:30:05] RickHull: what do you mean? got a link?
[04:30:26] finisherr: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/
[04:30:32] finisherr: Usually there is a test package
[04:30:43] finisherr: for unit testing
[04:30:46] RickHull: ah, like for Test::Unit
[04:30:59] RickHull: i'm not sure in this case, but Minitest is the new impl of Test::Unit for 2.0
[04:31:15] finisherr: not in the stdlib?
[04:31:17] RickHull: it may be in core rather than stdlib
[04:31:35] RickHull: and generally, i think things are moving towards core / gems rather than core / stdlib / gems
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[04:32:13] finisherr: crazy, it???s not there i dont??? think
[04:32:19] RickHull: Test::Unit may be in core, and minitest may be purely a gem. But i'm pretty sure minitest provides Test::Unit for ruby >= 2.0
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[04:32:55] RickHull: yeah i don't see it in core
[04:33:11] finisherr: so much change ha
[04:33:27] finisherr: I???m new to ruby
[04:34:01] RickHull: try require 'minitest'
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[04:34:18] RickHull: (after `gem install minitest`)
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[04:34:30] RickHull: should provide Test::Unit
[04:34:49] RickHull: (note: i'm totally fumbling here, someone else has better info surely)
[04:35:20] RickHull: plus ??a change, plus c'est la m??me chose
[04:35:21] Ox0dea: MiniTest is part of the standard library in 2.0+.
[04:35:45] finisherr: ok, i just didn???t see it in the docs
[04:35:57] havenwood: finisherr: MiniTest was renamed Minitest and is now shipped as a bundled gem.
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[04:36:07] RickHull: is Test::Unit still a thing?
[04:36:14] RickHull: what provides that constant, if so?
[04:36:23] havenwood: RickHull: It's also shipped as a bundled gem but is just backed by Minitest.
[04:36:29] RickHull: it's not in 2.2.2 stdlib
[04:36:35] RickHull: nor 2.2.2 core
[04:36:36] havenwood: RickHull: Bundled gem.
[04:36:47] havenwood: RickHull: They extracted it to a gem but ship it along with Ruby.
[04:36:52] RickHull: if i were new to ruby, how would you explain it to me?
[04:37:09] havenwood: RickHull: Some gems ship with Ruby. Minitest is one of those gems.
[04:37:10] RickHull: what is a bundled gem? using bundler?
[04:37:16] havenwood: Nothing to do with bundler.
[04:37:24] finisherr: haha, i was JUST researching bundler
[04:37:45] RickHull: so, if Minitest is bundled with ruby, where do i find the docs for it?
[04:37:50] RickHull: for the version shipped with my ruby?
[04:37:57] finisherr: that is a good question
[04:38:02] finisherr: at least it???s one i have ha
[04:38:12] havenwood: RickHull: Well, it's a gem so the gem docks.
[04:38:12] RickHull: finisherr: no worries i got your back
[04:38:26] RickHull: havenwood: let me rephrase
[04:38:31] RickHull: where are the docs for Test::Unit?
[04:38:52] havenwood: RickHull: https://test-unit.github.io/
[04:39:16] RickHull: literally never seen this before xD
[04:39:26] havenwood: RickHull: Or alternatively: http://www.rubydoc.info/gems/test-unit/3.1.1
[04:39:42] havenwood: RickHull: But use Minitest. :)
[04:39:46] RickHull: havenwood: hmmm
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[04:39:52] RickHull: seem pretty confusing as a ruby noob here
[04:39:57] RickHull: do I `gem install test-unit`
[04:40:15] RickHull: where is the part that explains how to unit test with ruby 2.2?
[04:40:35] RickHull: havenwood: not picking on you particularly, you have brownie points so far
[04:41:21] havenwood: RickHull: So when you install 2.2.2 you already have the Minitest gem installed. If you `gem update minitest` it will update to the latest Minitest if there's a newer one than the one Ruby shipped with.
[04:41:49] RickHull: finisherr: does that help?
[04:42:24] DANtheBEASTman: i'm not much of a rubyist, but i'm trying to install sass.. and I get this error trying to run it /usr/lib/ruby/2.1.0/rubygems/dependency.rb:298:in `to_specs': Could not find 'sass' (>= 0) among 11 total gem(s) (Gem::LoadError) and this is by directly calling sass
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[04:46:05] RickHull: DANtheBEASTman: looks like the gem is not actually installed
[04:46:22] RickHull: what's the output, use gist/pastie/pastbin if nec, of `gem list sass`
[04:46:42] RickHull: are you using bundler / Gemfile / Gemfile.lock ?
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[04:47:09] DANtheBEASTman: RickHull: it's in there, only gem I have... sass (3.4.14)
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[04:47:47] baweaver: What's the exact line in the gemfile?
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[04:48:14] RickHull: and what CLI command are you executing to get the error?
[04:48:17] baweaver: Also, you might update to Ruby 2.2 to be safe.
[04:48:27] DANtheBEASTman: i'm on sid and I don't have root to this machine
[04:48:41] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: What's the exact command you're running?
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[04:48:43] RickHull: DANtheBEASTman: neither should be a problem
[04:48:52] baweaver: DANtheBEASTman: That's what RVM and Rbenv are for
[04:49:15] baweaver: but that's more of an aside concern
[04:49:20] RickHull: baweaver: you mean chruby ;)
[04:49:24] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Are you prefixing `bundle exec` to your command to run "in the context of your bundle?"
[04:49:47] DANtheBEASTman: i'm not even writing a ruby script, I just wanted to be able to call sass from the cli
[04:49:58] finisherr: So, I???m looking at the documentation for URI. I???m seeing here that when you create a URI object there are all of these availble getters, like scheme and host. Where in the documentation would I find that those are available outside of the little example?
[04:49:59] baweaver: gem install sass
[04:49:59] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: So why do you have a Gemfile?
[04:50:00] finisherr: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/uri/rdoc/URI.html
[04:50:13] DANtheBEASTman: so I could locally install gems
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[04:50:33] RickHull: havenwood: in beastman's defense, this shit is super confusing
[04:50:43] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: gem install sass --user-install
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[04:51:01] DANtheBEASTman: havenwood: that's what my gemrc does.. i'm pretty sure
[04:51:37] RickHull: DANtheBEASTman: please make a series of pastes -- no joke. use gist.github.com your gemrc, and anything bundler or rubygems related
[04:51:38] DANtheBEASTman: sets gempath and gemhome env variables, and I have .gems/bin/sass in my PATH
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[04:51:48] RickHull: DANtheBEASTman: are you using bundler?
[04:52:07] RickHull: do you have a Gemfile?
[04:52:28] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: How'd you install sass?
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[04:52:41] DANtheBEASTman: gem install sass
[04:52:47] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: gem which sass
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[04:53:00] DANtheBEASTman: it seemed to install successfully
[04:53:13] RickHull: `gem which sass` # do it
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[04:53:46] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: When you say `.gems/bin/sass in my PATH` do you mean `.gems/bin in my PATH`?
[04:54:03] DANtheBEASTman: RickHull: /home/dan/.gems/gems/sass-3.4.14/lib/sass.rb
[04:54:05] DANtheBEASTman: havenwood: yes, sorry
[04:54:14] DANtheBEASTman: specifically I have $HOME/.gems/bin in my path
[04:56:24] RickHull: what's the command you're running?
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[04:57:56] DANtheBEASTman: $HOME/.gems/bin/sass
[04:58:20] DANtheBEASTman: because... i'm lying and my ~/.profile isn't loading .gems/bin.. that's weird
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[05:02:01] DANtheBEASTman: but calling the command directly is what gives me that error
[05:02:23] RickHull: what is the cmd exactly? (broken record?)
[05:02:43] RickHull: $HOME/.gems/bin/sass i guess
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[05:04:26] DANtheBEASTman: https://gist.github.com/DanielFGray/6a40c849d49c83cb7d4e
[05:05:17] RickHull: ok, good info
[05:05:46] RickHull: this is not my particular area of expertise
[05:05:57] RickHull: shouldn't you have something specifying `--user-install` ?
[05:06:00] havenwood: Seems to be some mixup between 1.9.1 and 2.1.0.
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[05:06:31] RickHull: oh yeah, and btw 1.9.1 is the official lib version, even if ruby is v1.9.3
[05:06:32] havenwood: /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.9.1
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[05:07:01] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: sudo update-alternatives --config gem
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[05:07:25] RickHull: isn't that debian specific? how do you know havenwood?
[05:07:28] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: You have both 1.9 and 2.1 installed?
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[05:07:50] havenwood: RickHull: Hmm? I don't follow.
[05:08:05] RickHull: `update-alternatives` is that distro-specific?
[05:08:09] shevy: will debian ever be painless
[05:08:10] havenwood: RickHull: nope
[05:08:21] havenwood: RickHull: Well, some don't have it but it's multi-distro.
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[05:09:08] RickHull: shevy: debian will be painless when life is painless
[05:09:39] baweaver: RickHull: But they have SystemD now!
[05:09:49] shevy: they intensify on the pain
[05:10:08] RickHull: i just take substance d and it makes the systemd pain go away
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[05:12:20] DANtheBEASTman: havenwood: no sudo
[05:12:40] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: which gem
[05:13:14] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: gem which rubygems
[05:13:43] DANtheBEASTman: /usr/lib/ruby/2.1.0/rubygems.rb
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[05:16:24] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Just to sanity check?: ruby -v
[05:16:50] DANtheBEASTman: ruby 2.1.5p273 (2014-11-13) [i386-linux-gnu]
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[05:17:18] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: ruby -rubygems -e 'puts Gem.default_bindir'
[05:17:46] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: echo $PATH
[05:18:05] DANtheBEASTman: do you want ssh access? lol
[05:18:15] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: /usr/local/bin/sass
[05:18:23] DANtheBEASTman: /home/dan/.local/bin:/home/dan/.npm/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games
[05:18:46] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Just checking that /usr/local/bin is indeed in your path.
[05:19:02] DANtheBEASTman: sass is in $HOME/.gems/bin/
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[05:19:39] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Not sure I followed how you set that up? In your gemrc?
[05:19:47] DANtheBEASTman: yeah, it works at home
[05:19:56] havenwood: Contents of gemrc?
[05:20:43] DANtheBEASTman: https://gist.github.com/DanielFGray/6a40c849d49c83cb7d4e
[05:20:52] havenwood: Ah, right, you linked.
[05:21:02] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: What's that 1.9.1 doing there?
[05:21:10] DANtheBEASTman: idk, i already fixed it
[05:21:39] DANtheBEASTman: that path in gemrc i mean
[05:21:50] DANtheBEASTman: no change in error though
[05:21:52] RickHull: make sure you have a new login session now
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[05:24:10] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Err, I'm tired. Confirm?: ruby -rubygems -e 'puts Gem.bindir'
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[05:25:00] RickHull: havenwood: if you don't resolve this ticket you don't get paid today
[05:25:12] havenwood: RickHull: But I want my porridge in the morning. :(
[05:25:23] RickHull: you can't have any meat if you don't eat your pudding!
[05:26:05] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Gist: gem env
[05:26:12] Aeyrix: This is the most un-ruby #ruby chat ever.
[05:26:29] RickHull: Aeyrix: in fact, it's super-#ruby-lang right now
[05:27:06] RickHull: deal with it, put on sunglasses, etc
[05:27:48] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: (Gem.bindir instead of Gem.default_bindir)
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[05:30:23] RickHull: vaya con dios mi amigos
[05:30:26] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: I'd suggest `--user-install` in your gemrc instead of custom gemhome and gempaths. Should *just work*.
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[05:31:20] havenwood: gem: --user-install
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[05:52:56] ocx: hello i want to create a menu in my xwindows that looks like the menu that runs on your access point when accessed via a webbrowser, it needs to have sections a menu, buttons text field etc, what is a good tool/language to use to achieve this?
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[06:02:37] prateekp: rdoc creates documentation for any project ... It does not throw an error if the project does not contain .rb files
[06:02:46] prateekp: is there any strict option?
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[06:06:41] prateekp: rdoc creates documentation for any project ... It does not throw an error if the project does not contain .rb files
[06:06:42] prateekp: is there any strict option?
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[06:11:10] shevy: rdoc is weird
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[06:11:58] shevy: here are its --help options https://gist.githubusercontent.com/shevegen/4b8d8a11ebb03cb1b015/raw/178437896e693fc7686328a68666f792a592621d/rdoc%20--help
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[06:12:18] Nilium: I just write all documentation in godoc style now.
[06:12:23] Nilium: Because that's surprisingly readable.
[06:12:47] shevy: I assume you can run it via system() prateekp or rather result = `rdoc`, and then decide what to do with the result. if there is no .rb file, you can find out anyway, via Dir['**/**.rb']
[06:13:52] prateekp: shevy : you are correct ... but sometime ruby projects contains c source as well
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[06:18:14] shevy: well you can check that anyway
[06:18:37] shevy: def has_c_files?; Dir['**/**.c'].size > 0
[06:18:40] shevy: or something like that
[06:19:21] prateekp: and also ruby projects must have atleast one .rb for it to be called ruby project
[06:19:27] prateekp: i may be wrong here
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[06:56:20] DANtheBEASTman: I don't understand what havenwood meant by putting --user-install in gemrc.. well I mean that's exactly the desired effect I want but surely putting that exact string in the file won't work.. and I can't find a syntax guide on the front page of googling 'gemrc syntax'
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[06:57:21] DANtheBEASTman: in other words I don't know how to do X because the front page of googling Y didn't help me
[06:57:47] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: For example: gem: "--no-document --env-shebang --user-install"
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[07:00:22] DANtheBEASTman: so I could replace my whole gemrc with.. echo 'gem: "--user-install"' > ~/.gemrc ? idk what those other switches do because they're not in --help or man ruby
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[07:02:23] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: For example: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/429f6c7af2094ab2b911
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[07:02:49] DANtheBEASTman: why do I need all those other things? what I just did worked great
[07:03:01] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: You don't need the others.
[07:03:12] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: Just showing how you'd do multiple in case you want to.
[07:03:31] DANtheBEASTman: ah. well thank you very much for your time!
[07:03:39] havenwood: DANtheBEASTman: You're welcome.
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[07:15:48] Parter_: how create my own kind of array with some variables
[07:16:06] ljarvis: Parter_: please be more specific
[07:16:07] Parter_: with each, meybe sort etc.
[07:16:17] ljarvis: what's wrong with a normal array?
[07:16:18] Parter_: a=[Array....
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[07:16:51] Parter_: my array have specyfic variable for example MyArray.v1 = 2
[07:17:01] Parter_: and a=MyArray.new
[07:17:22] ljarvis: ok, just use a normal array and separate them into different versions, then
[07:17:47] Parter_: trouble is with add arrays
[07:18:05] ljarvis: Parter_: please provide some code, this is too vague for me to help
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[07:18:19] Parter_: when I create my array and second my array and add 2 my arrays I get Array no myarray
[07:19:22] sevenseacat: if your array has settable attributes, its not really an array is it
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[07:20:11] apeiros: Parter_: create a custom class which has an array as member
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[07:20:33] Parter_: ljarvis, http://dark-code.bulix.org/5mrr24-88473
[07:20:37] bnagy: or a DelegateClass
[07:20:39] apeiros: or *create custom classes
[07:20:51] Parter_: when I add aa += bb
[07:21:04] apeiros: Parter_: don't inherit from classes you don't own. that's recipe for pain.
[07:21:38] bnagy: Parter_: that's going to happen with all approaches unless you wrap + and concat etc
[07:21:41] Parter_: is possible to make class Spoko with all functionality of array?
[07:21:59] Parter_: anybody can help me write working example
[07:22:26] bnagy: in order of preference, 1. Try not to want that 2. Create a class that exposes a real array via a method 3. DelegateClass 4. subclass
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[07:22:55] bnagy: 2 isn't exactly the api you asked for, but it's easier to work with
[07:23:22] bnagy: a.items would be the Array and a.v1 would be the attribute
[07:23:47] bnagy: the docs for DelegateClass have examples, but srsly, don't :)
[07:23:57] Parter_: bnagy, ok, Can You write Your code?
[07:24:15] sevenseacat: you mean, can bnagy write your code
[07:24:16] bnagy: Parter_: I can write mine just fine
[07:24:44] Parter_: sevenseacat, Yours code ;-)
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[07:25:18] Parter_: I need my own array and I need concatent etc. of it
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[07:26:15] sevenseacat: Parter_: you've been given the methods, now you want someone to write the code for you
[07:26:19] Parter_: I'm search any example for arrays and not found
[07:26:28] ljarvis: Parter_: are you confused by any of the suggestions? nobody is going to write it all for you
[07:26:44] Parter_: What sugestion?
[07:26:50] ljarvis: seriously?
[07:26:56] Parter_: please show this sugestion.
[07:27:09] Parter_: I put my example
[07:27:10] ljarvis: Parter_: there has been many suggestions given to you
[07:27:36] ljarvis: Parter_: the best one is to use a custom class that embeds an Array. i.e Spoko would have an Array member
[07:27:42] Parter_: ljarvis, meybe I canot see, can Yoy copy again it?
[07:27:49] ljarvis: Parter_: there you go
[07:28:09] Parter_: ok, tell me what i can add two class?
[07:28:28] ljarvis: Parter_: you have an @nowy member, now add an @items member
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[07:28:32] Parter_: if my Spoko have Array inside I need add Spoko+Spoko
[07:28:57] Parter_: how writing def +
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[07:30:26] apeiros: Parter_: take a look at http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/delegate/rdoc/Delegator.html and http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/forwardable/rdoc/Forwardable.html
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[07:32:06] Parter_: how defining + - / += [] etc ?
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[07:32:26] apeiros: you don't. you delegate to the array.
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[07:32:41] ljarvis: you would have to write a custom + method though
[07:32:50] apeiros: ljarvis: no
[07:32:57] apeiros: that's the nice thing about delegator
[07:33:06] ljarvis: apeiros: srsly
[07:33:08] apeiros: might return the wrong type
[07:33:12] bnagy: it will delegate + to the array
[07:33:19] apeiros: early morning???
[07:33:28] ljarvis: you can't be my mess yesterday
[07:33:44] ljarvis: flughafen: morning
[07:33:52] apeiros: ljarvis: you have no idea :D
[07:34:02] bnagy: weird that I can't find a clean link to DelegateClass in the rdoc
[07:34:11] bnagy: imho it's nicer to use than Delegator
[07:34:30] Parter_: ACTION writing in mruby Delegating is not good idea
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[07:34:48] ljarvis: bnagy: it's a method on Object http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/delegate/rdoc/Object.html#method-i-DelegateClass
[07:34:53] jhass: iirc it even does coerce correctly? (which doesn't go through method_missing)
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[07:36:35] bnagy: jhass: doesn't seem to for me
[07:37:08] bnagy: would have made me o_0 if it did tbh
[07:37:32] bnagy: that would be taking a pretty aggressive view about what I wanted as a return class from arbitrary methods
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[07:38:20] bnagy: <3 when a class is defined in Object but you still have to require something to get it ;)
[07:38:52] sevenseacat: 'when a class is defined in Object'?
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[07:45:29] tobiasvl: haha what a horrible extermination that went on in #ruby-lang
[07:46:12] apeiros: dalekian extermination?
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[07:46:28] bnagy: stop, I'm still traumatised
[07:46:47] sevenseacat: extermination?
[07:47:25] apeiros: all users have been disintegrated. some reintegrated here. some got lost. it was a bloodbath.
[07:47:47] ledestin: was surprised to wake up here
[07:48:23] Parter_: is possible to redefining all method? .map [] + etc in class Spoko < Array
[07:48:49] Parter_: include Enumerables is not good idea
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[07:49:39] bnagy: what makes you say that?
[07:50:17] Parter_: aa=Spoko.new ; p aa.map { |i| i.reverse }
[07:50:26] ChanServ: -bb lpaste!*@* *!*@unaffiliated/chrisdone
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[07:52:05] Parter_: in this declaration .size not working
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[07:52:50] baweaver: apeiros: https://twitter.com/keystonelemur - Where are the Daleks? Thought I fixed that.
[07:53:27] baweaver: Parter_: Implement an Enumerable interface
[07:53:38] baweaver: Unless you have substantially good reason not to
[07:53:43] baweaver: Which you've yet to mention
[07:53:47] Parter_: baweaver, how?
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[07:54:30] baweaver: http://andreacfm.com/2011/07/27/make-your-ruby-classes-comparable-and-enumerable/
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[07:54:45] Parter_: baweaver, enumerables not working for me, .size .map .delete_at
[07:54:54] baweaver: http://blog.arkency.com/2014/01/ruby-to-enum-for-enumerator/
[07:55:01] adaedra: professor_soap: then ask your question, we can't guess your problem :)
[07:55:16] baweaver: Parter_: http://www.gist.github.com - post the code
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[07:55:24] ljarvis: size/delete_at are not Enumerable methods
[07:55:40] ljarvis: you would have to delegate those to your Array
[07:55:47] ljarvis: which is, again, what many people here have already suggested
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[07:56:31] baweaver: If people have already suggested that then why hasn't that been tried yet?
[07:56:35] baweaver: ACTION came in late
[07:57:33] ljarvis: delegate is basically exactly what Parter_ is looking for. However, they're just ignoring it and waiting for somebody to write the code for them
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[07:57:55] baweaver: Well on that I'm probably calling it a night then
[07:58:04] Parter_: ljarvis, or not undestanding
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[07:58:30] ljarvis: Parter_: if you don't understand, then ask questions
[07:58:45] ljarvis: but at least try what has been suggested
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[07:58:55] Parter_: Your code not working with .size .map +=
[07:59:00] Parter_: this is trouble
[07:59:08] sevenseacat: thats not questions
[07:59:09] ljarvis: sevenseacat: halp
[07:59:17] apeiros: baweaver: they drop through time about every third episode
[07:59:22] sevenseacat: thats 'fix it for me'
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[08:00:02] Parter_: my question is simple and still this same. How writing my own Array with all Array functionality and some variables
[08:00:03] ljarvis: I just had some awful coffee
[08:00:11] Parter_: I show code
[08:00:22] Parter_: and this code NOT working
[08:00:47] ljarvis: Parter_: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/delegate/rdoc/Object.html#method-i-DelegateClass
[08:01:00] Parter_: I use mruby
[08:01:15] Parter_: I wrote it (look previous)
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[08:01:34] ljarvis: I'm not such how that's relevant. Is that class unavailable on mruby?
[08:01:35] sevenseacat: Parter_: you havent posted any code yet
[08:01:40] ljarvis: sevenseacat: they have
[08:01:56] sevenseacat: its not in a gist
[08:02:00] sevenseacat: so i must have missed it
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[08:02:11] ljarvis: http://dark-code.bulix.org/5mrr24-88473
[08:02:29] sevenseacat: oh yeah i wasnt clicking on that one.
[08:02:39] apeiros: and I got an idea for the website - recent links & recent links by user
[08:03:00] baweaver: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8fcdf6b388f5081b0da5
[08:03:05] baweaver: sevenseacat: ftfy
[08:03:22] sevenseacat: ok, now whats the problem with that blob of code
[08:03:24] sevenseacat: other than 'it doesnt work'
[08:03:41] DefV: channel consolidation?
[08:03:43] DefV: this is bullshit
[08:03:56] DefV: where should I crosspost my questions now
[08:04:00] DefV: </troll>
[08:04:01] ljarvis: here and here
[08:04:06] jhass: DefV: ##ruby
[08:04:09] ljarvis: yay for solving problems
[08:04:15] baweaver: #RubyOnRails works too
[08:04:25] baweaver: Radar loves it when people do that
[08:04:36] apeiros: ACTION too
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[08:04:50] baweaver: ACTION ducks and runs off
[08:05:07] professor_soap: This is probably very elementary. I have a class with an attr_accessible "attrs" that hold things like an id. I need to write a finder method that iterates through these objects attrs hash and find by id. Can anyone point to a nice way of doing this?
[08:05:54] ljarvis: professor_soap: what about storing them in a Hash so the lookup is O(1) rather than using select or something?
[08:05:54] bnagy: professor_soap: you don't iterate through hashes, you just get your item
[08:06:23] baweaver: >> {a: 1, b: 2, c: 3}[:c] # professor_soap
[08:06:24] ruboto: baweaver # => 3 (https://eval.in/374086)
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[08:07:09] jhass: professor_soap: some code might illustrate what you're doing better
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[08:08:50] tirel: hello ruby chan. Does anyone knows an alternative to mkmf to build Makefile in ruby? mkmf incredibly inflexible folder structure all files must be in the same directory!
[08:09:06] tirel: mkmf has*
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[08:11:01] ljarvis: tirel: that's not true
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[08:12:41] ljarvis: oh actually i've misunderstood
[08:12:48] ljarvis: it probaly is true
[08:13:17] tirel: @ljarvis Yeah I think it is..
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[08:14:24] tirel: I was talking about the C/C++sources
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[08:15:16] ljarvis: oh, you want to add include paths? because you can use dir_config for that
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[08:17:15] tirel: Yes but using config_dir needs to be using command line options when actually calling the generated Make file, doesn't it ?
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[08:24:43] KJF: how to run mysql query in controller ?
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[08:25:11] jhass: ?rails kj_
[08:25:11] ruboto: kj_, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
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[08:27:39] Radar: DefV: Please cross post your questions to ##python, ##php and ESPECIALLY #haskell
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[08:27:55] KJF: ruboto_ this is the message i am gettting when I am posting anything in rubyonrails channel
[08:27:55] KJF: Cannot send to channel: #RubyOnRails
[08:28:16] sevenseacat: kj_: you didnt read the help text did you
[08:28:29] Radar: You have failed the first test.
[08:28:37] Radar: kj_: You need to register with nickserv first.
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[08:46:39] maloik: Anyone happen to be aware of a project that is some kind of starter/demo RoR application with the purpose of demonstrating bugs, trying out new gems etc? I remember reading about it some time ago, possibly on /r/ruby but I forgot the name
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[08:54:41] maloik: bingo: https://github.com/nicoschuele/railsplay
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[09:08:18] tirel: hello ruby chan. Does anyone knows an alternative to mkmf to build Makefile in ruby? mkmf has incredibly inflexible folder structure : all files must be in the same directory!
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[09:21:34] yorickpeterse: You asked the same question a while ago
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[09:22:17] tirel: yes, and got no real answers...
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[09:23:03] yorickpeterse: asking it again in just 45 minutes probably isn't going to get you an answer faster
[09:23:19] yorickpeterse: at least not one that's not "no there isn't"
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[09:25:40] fu2ristiq: hi everybody
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[09:25:59] tirel: ok thx yorickpeterse
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[09:30:23] fu2ristiq: "Programming Ruby" vs "Ruby Way" books. Which one is better to read if I've completed Koans?
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[09:31:11] ljarvis: fu2ristiq: start building something
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[09:34:18] fu2ristiq: ljarvis like what?
[09:34:33] tercenya: has joined #ruby
[09:34:45] ljarvis: fu2ristiq: I don't know. What would you do once you've "finished" learning Ruby?
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[09:35:00] jhass: maybe you have something that you do regularly and could partially automate?
[09:35:23] fu2ristiq: oh, thank you guys.
[09:35:34] apeiros: evergreens: write an irc bot, write a webframework, write a webscraper
[09:35:40] apeiros: which evergreens did I miss?
[09:35:52] ljarvis: webframework should be on there twice
[09:36:20] apeiros: oh, a gem to help you make gems
[09:36:55] fu2ristiq: by the way, speaking about productivity. why do people use tmux/screen when iTerm has this neat split action going on?
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[09:36:58] fu2ristiq: do I miss something?
[09:37:11] ljarvis: what happens when you close the iterm window?
[09:37:47] ruby_nuby: Anyone using Neo4J ActiveNode in ruby? I'm struggling a bit with a model
[09:37:49] MrBeardy: also I'd prefer being able to use something I can use everywhere, rather than just something on mac
[09:38:16] fu2ristiq: well, yeah.
[09:40:59] maloik: Radar: sorry for the vague question, but do you think Paranoia should alter the nested_attributes behavior in any way? Our app has a bug where a test is suddenly failing, and I can't figure out why. I just set up a new project with paranoia to try to recreate the problem but to no avail, so I'm guessing it's only happening because of our code. I see no reason for it myself, but I wanted to see if it throws any red flags on your end
[09:41:52] fu2ristiq: thanks guys
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[09:57:34] zenspider: tirel: you _might_ try mkrf. I doubt it'll help.
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[10:00:04] zenspider: I also think your assertion about a single source dir is incorrect.. at least, doable if you're willing to put in the (probably not worth it) effort.
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[10:00:35] zenspider: gah that shit is still horribly ugly
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[10:02:42] phale: jhass: are you there?
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[10:03:32] jhass: any issue?
[10:03:50] phale: how come you're always here
[10:04:01] jhass: it's just open in the background
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[10:04:41] Darkwater: 12:03 ~ NiseVoid ??? Darkwater: Ruby was made by a drunk japanese guy rite?
[10:04:41] Darkwater: 12:03 + Darkwater ??? why drunk
[10:04:41] Darkwater: 12:03 ~ NiseVoid ??? Because obviously the return last line thing is something you would only do when drunk
[10:04:47] Darkwater: how do I deal with people like these
[10:04:57] phale: Darkwater: use a sane language
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[10:05:28] ljarvis: of all the things they could have picked on, it was something nice?
[10:05:59] jhass: Darkwater: in doubt with /ignore add
[10:06:09] phale: what if his client doesn't support ignoring?
[10:06:16] Darkwater: I've tried leaving his channel
[10:06:18] jhass: then get a better client
[10:06:23] Darkwater: but for some reason I keep talking to this guy
[10:06:33] puppeh: has joined #ruby
[10:06:38] Darkwater: it's been going on for about 6 years
[10:06:46] puppeh: anyone here using the ruby 2.1 github fork in production?
[10:07:11] phale: Darkwater: try using something like Limbo
[10:07:19] phale: maybe he'll shut up
[10:08:33] Darkwater: I don't think I'm ready for that
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[10:08:49] phale: then ascend lol
[10:09:48] phale: I go on here to talk to people
[10:09:51] phale: not to code in Ruby
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[10:11:15] jhass: well, you don't appear to seek a nice conversation either
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[10:11:39] phale: jhass: hm?
[10:12:18] jhass: I never see questions from you that are designed to spark a nice conversation, quite the opposite in fact
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[10:12:47] phale: jhass: probably because I don't code in Ruby?
[10:13:14] jhass: I don't think that's related
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[10:13:44] phale: phale> quantum physics and astrophysics can be applie to a set of ruby programs right
[10:13:49] phale: that was my last question
[10:13:54] phale: I got called a troll for whatever reason
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[10:16:45] jhass: well, it's also things like "12:04 <phale> Darkwater: use a sane language" that you drop all the time
[10:16:51] jhass: you do appear quite close to a troll, yeah
[10:17:16] phale: no I'm serious
[10:17:16] tobiasvl: phale: you don't use ruby?
[10:17:19] phale: He should use a saner language
[10:17:22] phale: tobiasvl: No.
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[10:18:02] tobiasvl: then why are you here? "to talk to people" about what?
[10:18:05] jhass: phale: tbh I think #ruby is just the wrong community for you
[10:18:34] phale: I want to help people with Ruby problems and issues.
[10:18:44] phale: so basically everything about Ruby
[10:18:51] apeiros: phale: it doesn't look like that
[10:19:00] phale: apeiros: Give me one more chance, I'll help one person
[10:19:01] tobiasvl: and helping people with their problems include telling them to use a saner language
[10:19:24] apeiros: phale: I can tell you that I'm quite close to perma-banning you. so better use that chance.
[10:19:30] phale: who wants help
[10:19:44] jhass: same here, quite close to ban you too
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[10:20:13] apeiros: and stuff like "use a sane language" is inacceptable.
[10:20:21] apeiros: next time I see shit like that you're gone.
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[10:21:02] phale: apeiros: why?
[10:21:09] phale: I'm giving the users advice, that IS helping them.
[10:21:29] apeiros: I'm not going to discuss that. it's obvious enough.
[10:21:31] jhass: phale: at the end of the day if you don't see why that's sad, but you have to accept it
[10:21:51] phale: I'm sorry but I don't understand why people consider me as a troll because I help people.
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[10:22:15] tobiasvl: do you help them with anything else than suggesting they use other languages?
[10:22:21] phale: tobiasvl: Not really
[10:22:24] tobiasvl: because that's not helping them with ruby
[10:22:31] apeiros: this discussion is over
[10:22:39] apeiros: anybody continuing it will be kicked.
[10:22:48] apeiros: phale will either help people or go.
[10:22:51] apeiros: that's the last of it.
[10:25:06] TheHodge: has joined #ruby
[10:27:08] ddv: is phale causing trouble again?
[10:27:28] Darkwater: I'd have banned him already
[10:27:32] phale: ddv: No I'm helping people
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[10:27:37] apeiros: ddv: 12:22 apeiros: [this discussion is over] anybody continuing it will be kicked.
[10:27:42] apeiros: same @ Darkwater
[10:27:47] ddv: apeiros: didn't read that
[10:27:49] apeiros: I mean it. no further warning.
[10:28:06] ddv: I just logged on lol
[10:28:34] phale: Love is Looking Over Various Errors, Hate is Habitually Accelerating Terror.
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[10:29:43] ljarvis: that's Hat
[10:29:51] puppeh: when configuring ruby from source with ./configure and trying to pass the openssl path with `--with-openssl-dir`, what location am I supposed to pass? The lib/ dir of my OpenSSL installation or the bin/?
[10:29:52] puppeh: or the root?
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[10:30:16] phale: apeiros: Please don't kick me, I don't know how to help this person.
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[10:30:32] adaedra: which contains bin/ and lib/
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[10:31:05] puppeh: OK thanks
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[11:23:24] Jagan: Hi Every one !!!
[11:23:58] Jagan: How to verify checkbox is checked or not.
[11:24:23] Darkwater: Jagan: what checkbox?
[11:24:24] Jagan: Can you please help me.
[11:24:26] SebastianThorn: Jagan: you mean rails?
[11:24:49] Jagan: normal Checkbox
[11:24:51] Darkwater: what kind of checkbox
[11:25:29] Darkwater: a checkbox isn't a normal part of normal ruby
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[11:25:42] Jagan: Actually I selected checkbox
[11:25:56] adaedra: What checkbox
[11:26:02] adaedra: How did you make that checkbox
[11:26:02] apeiros: Jagan: you're lacking lots of context. as Darkwater said - ruby itself doesn't have checkboxes.
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[11:26:14] Jagan: is checked means, no issues, not checked means again i will checked.
[11:26:15] Darkwater: a checkbox could be anything
[11:26:41] apeiros: Jagan: html? GUI toolbox? CLI? something else?
[11:27:17] Darkwater: for all we know you could even be talking about a checkbox on a presidential election form which you're spying on using a sattelite and you're trying to get which checkbox the voter checks
[11:27:31] toretore: Jagan: how about showing us your code on http://gist.github.com ?
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[11:27:41] Jagan: Just I verify okay.
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[11:27:52] adaedra: Darkwater: Are you saying he may be russian?
[11:27:59] Darkwater: hey, for all we know
[11:28:03] Darkwater: he could be martian!
[11:28:11] Jagan: Just I verify checkbox is checked or not
[11:28:23] Darkwater: what kind of checkbox are you talking about
[11:28:59] tbuehlmann: the realisation after a day of #ruby: I miss #ruby-lang :'(
[11:29:14] Darkwater: what's that
[11:29:18] apeiros: tbuehlmann: because #ruby-lang had +b $x:clueless?
[11:29:28] tbuehlmann: you know exactly what I mean!
[11:29:41] Darkwater: tbuehlmann: you're not giving us enough context!!!
[11:29:57] toretore: this channel tended to attract the less desirable individuals, keeping them away from #ruby-lang
[11:30:19] jhass: now it keeps them away from #ruby-pro ;)
[11:30:23] adaedra: ???less desirable???
[11:30:37] Jagan: If not checked means, I will checked
[11:31:07] Jagan: Already checked means, no issues.
[11:31:21] jhass: ?answers Jagan
[11:31:22] ruboto: Jagan, How to ask the right questions to get you the right answer: https://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
[11:31:28] Darkwater: Jagan: the answer to all your questions requires knowledge of what kind of checkbox you are talking about
[11:31:38] Darkwater: on a html page? gui desktop application?
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[11:32:01] Jagan: web application
[11:32:11] apeiros: took only 5 tries???
[11:32:17] Jagan: this is fine.
[11:32:24] apeiros: ?code Jagan
[11:32:24] ruboto: Jagan, We can't help you without your code, please post it to https://gist.github.com
[11:32:34] Darkwater: now, what framework do you use, if any?
[11:32:45] Jagan: Okay friends.
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[11:33:08] Darkwater: isn't that a testing framework?
[11:33:13] Jagan: Web application using POM method
[11:33:18] toretore: troll meter certainty currenctly at 63%, rising.
[11:33:41] Jagan: automation testing framework
[11:33:45] Darkwater: toretore: clueless people actually exist though
[11:33:50] Darkwater: Jagan: I meant for the website itself
[11:33:54] Darkwater: a web framework
[11:33:56] Darkwater: rails? sinatra?
[11:34:04] toretore: the best trolls are indistinguishable
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[11:34:23] Jagan: not a rails
[11:34:26] apeiros: Jagan: so in your cucumber test story you want to have a step which checks whether a checkbox is checked?
[11:34:38] Jagan: only ruby using page object model
[11:34:42] toretore: Jagan: paste your code on gist.github.com and give us the link
[11:34:54] toretore: Jagan: show us the code
[11:34:56] toretore: Jagan: code
[11:35:44] apeiros: ok, so with Jagan to follow up on questions, you obviously have to ask at least 5 times.
[11:36:03] jhass: ACTION should write a bot
[11:36:19] Jagan: <apeiros> so in your cucumber test story you want to have a step which checks whether a checkbox is checked?
[11:36:30] toretore: Jagan: still waiting to see the code
[11:36:38] apeiros: Jagan: just for future reference - if you want help, answer on follow up questions. I'm amazed that people aren't already ignoring you.
[11:36:44] Jagan: this is exact question
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[11:36:58] MrBeardy: then answer it lol
[11:36:58] Darkwater: Jagan: show code
[11:37:00] adaedra: jhass, the bot writer
[11:37:01] Jagan: this is automation testing
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[11:37:07] toretore: Jagan: code
[11:37:08] Jagan: How will show the code
[11:37:13] apeiros: Jagan: with rspec + cucumber, that'd be: find(SELECTOR_FOR_CHECKBOX).should be_checked
[11:37:21] SebastianThorn: ACTION is reading all Jagan is writing in russian accent :)
[11:37:28] Jagan: I want idea for ruby using Page object model
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[11:38:12] toretore: Jagan: go to https://gist.github.com/ - copy and paste your code there, click the create button, copy the link from your browser's address bar, then paste the link in here
[11:38:16] gauke: has joined #ruby
[11:38:23] Darkwater: make sure to include your Gemfile if you use that
[11:38:45] adaedra: apeiros: too bad, we could have asked phale to help him :p
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[11:39:18] apeiros: adaedra: seriously, I said that's over. that applies to you too.
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[11:39:48] Jagan: <apeiros> Jagan: so in your cucumber test story you want to have a step which checks whether a checkbox is checked? you only understand my question. this is for automation testing
[11:40:11] apeiros: the best way to get trolls and "undesirable" people out, the best way is to stop paying them attention. report to ops, then ignore.
[11:40:26] apeiros: minus one "best way".
[11:40:32] adaedra: heh, he's not here anymore, that's why I allowed myself that
[11:40:48] apeiros: that makes it *slightly* less bad.
[11:40:53] Jagan: "I need to verify checkbox is checked or not, if not checked means, i will checked " this is my question in ruby
[11:41:00] adaedra: sorry, thought that would be funny.
[11:41:04] apeiros: 13:37 apeiros: Jagan: with rspec + cucumber, that'd be: find(SELECTOR_FOR_CHECKBOX).should be_checked
[11:41:12] apeiros: Jagan: do I need to repeat 5x again?
[11:42:04] MrBeardy: There should be a !solution command for bots that sends them a message with the supplied solution to someone for every message they send after that
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[11:42:25] Jagan: this is only cucumber
[11:42:33] Jagan: Can you pls tel me in ruby
[11:42:39] apeiros: Jagan: cucumber is executed by a language
[11:42:55] apeiros: and if you use ruby+rspec to execute cucumber, the above is the answer.
[11:43:08] Jagan: this is fine for ruby
[11:43:27] Jagan: I am not using rspec
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[11:43:37] apeiros: then. provide. useful. information.
[11:43:38] apeiros: seriously.
[11:43:41] toretore: Jagan: where's that code?
[11:43:48] toretore: Jagan: waiting to see your code
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[11:43:51] toretore: Jagan: code
[11:43:58] apeiros: anyway, I'm giving up. I've no patience for that.
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[11:44:10] Darkwater: Jagan: if you want help, answer our questions
[11:44:10] jhass: I suggest we all do that until Jagan read ?answers
[11:44:14] Darkwater: if you don't, fine
[11:44:19] jhass: ?answers Jagan
[11:44:19] ruboto: Jagan, How to ask the right questions to get you the right answer: https://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
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[11:48:22] Jagan: I write the code for click in checkbox
[11:48:34] Jagan: in ruby using POM method
[11:48:39] Jagan: def chk_exclude_opt() self.sel_exclude_opt_element.check end
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[11:49:18] Jagan: "sel_exclude_opt_element " this is xpath
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[11:49:59] Jagan: so "sel_exclude_opt_element.click"
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[11:50:17] Jagan: so automatically checked
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[11:51:44] Darkwater: show full code
[11:51:49] Darkwater: what does sel_exclude... return?
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[11:52:03] Darkwater: we aren't magic people who know everything
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[11:54:08] centrx: Speak for yourself
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[11:54:24] Darkwater: sorry wizard centrx
[11:54:33] Darkwater: please guide the young Jagan
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[11:54:47] Darkwater: that's not how you guide someone
[11:54:56] exile-bot-2: has joined #ruby
[11:55:07] centrx: Apprentice must want to be helped
[11:55:08] exile-bot-2: has joined #ruby
[11:55:09] Darkwater: what's this exile bot thing
[11:55:18] exile-bot-2: has joined #ruby
[11:55:23] centrx: !ops runaway bot
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[11:55:23] ruboto: fflush, apeiros, banisterfiend, seanstickle, Mon_Ouie, zzak, Radar, Havenn, jhass, sevenseacat, miah, workmad3, Coraline, drbrain, zenspider, rubyhacker1, slyphon, Aria, ljarvis
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[11:56:15] apeiros: +b exile-bot-2!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection
[11:56:28] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[12:04:26] Guest11560: hello, it is the first time for me to use irc, I got a quesation here: "The car costs $1000 and the cat costs $10".scan(/\d*/) {|d| puts d}. it only shows 10. but if * changed to +, both 1000 and 10 will show. Why?
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[12:05:10] Guest11560: thank you for your help
[12:06:02] tobiasvl: Guest11560: hmm. it works here, except that the former with * also puts a lot of empty strings.
[12:06:10] apeiros: Guest11560: it actually shows you much more than just 10 and 1000
[12:06:23] apeiros: because \d* also matches on zero \d's, i.e. the empty string
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[12:06:34] apeiros: >> "The car costs $1000 and the cat costs $10".scan(/\d*/)
[12:06:35] ruboto: apeiros # => ["", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "1000", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", "", ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374260)
[12:06:51] apeiros: you're probably missing the 1000 because with puts you get lots of empty lines in between
[12:06:54] Guest11560: let me check it, thank you guys
[12:07:04] Guest11560: yes, I think so
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[12:07:19] Guest11560: I may miss 1000
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[12:09:24] Guest11560: yes, I find it, too many other things that make me did not find 1000. Thank you everyone
[12:09:46] Darkwater: >> "a1b".scan(/\d*/)
[12:09:47] ruboto: Darkwater # => ["", "1", "", ""] (https://eval.in/374266)
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[12:53:41] [k-: #ruby-lang now forwards to #ruby?
[12:54:56] thebastl: has joined #ruby
[12:55:32] [k-: oh, the topic
[12:55:37] [k-: * facepal, *
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[12:59:30] workmad3: aww, I'm gonna miss #ruby-lang :(
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[13:00:25] Miphix: what's going on with ruby-lang
[13:00:33] charliesome: has joined #ruby
[13:01:01] centrx: Channels merged
[13:01:04] workmad3: Miphix: jhass is destroying it!
[13:01:19] jhass: s/is/has/
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[13:04:14] jhass: Miphix: look, the ruby community is finally among those that have a 1000+ members channel!
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[13:04:33] adaedra: It's not the size which counts.
[13:04:58] jhass: adaedra: sssh, nobody needs to know
[13:05:06] ddv: how did people ever end up in #ruby-lang anyways?
[13:05:17] adaedra: By typing /join #ruby-lang
[13:05:38] apeiros: ACTION did by reading ruby-lang.org
[13:05:39] surrounder: nice calm place was nice
[13:05:40] adaedra: (Joke.killed_count += 1)
[13:05:53] ddv: apeiros: ah :)
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[13:09:57] Miphix: The #ruby channel is the most popular channel in my IRC channel
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[13:10:20] Darkwater: how does that work
[13:10:37] jhass: *channels
[13:10:39] ddv: irception?
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[13:12:17] Darkwater: inception missing a column of pixels
[13:12:18] jhass: oh, #freenode is being funny
[13:12:58] cout: is it possible to use rake as a library instead of as a standalone application? my guess from reading the source is "no, not easily", since tasks defined with the dsl forward to an application singleton
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[13:19:39] adaedra: cout: what do you want to do, globally?
[13:19:44] quimrstorres: has joined #ruby
[13:19:45] cout: ah, I guess http://blog.absurd.li/2010/01/14/using_rake_as_a_component.html answers my question
[13:19:52] adaedra: who did using namespace std; ?
[13:19:54] aryaching: has joined #ruby
[13:20:20] cout: adaedra: this nick predates C++ standardization :)
[13:20:45] mary5030: has joined #ruby
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[13:21:30] cout: my first irc nick was Alt-255, and I've pondered going back to it, but nobody would know who I am since I've been using this one for 20 years now
[13:21:33] cout: HOLY COW
[13:21:57] adaedra: Leave the cow alone
[13:22:08] cout: adaedra: cam
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[13:22:18] jhass: too tasty
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[13:22:25] cout: adaedra: I came from clemson. We love our cows.
[13:22:36] adaedra: Anyway, did your answer solved your problem?
[13:22:49] cout: yeah I think so
[13:23:09] adaedra: Clemson, South Carolina?
[13:23:21] imperator: cout, thor perhaps?
[13:23:32] cout: imperator: what's thor?
[13:23:52] adaedra: It's a good thing that only the USA exists as a country, so you can give a city name without other precision like that
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[13:24:23] cout: imperator: haha, whatisthor.com
[13:24:27] cout: I've looked at this before
[13:24:35] adaedra: it's a good thing for clis
[13:24:52] cout: interesting, but I'm modifing an existing app rather than building a new one
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[13:25:41] adaedra: so your goal is to use existing rake tasks and call them from a cli?
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[13:26:12] cout: adaedra: my goal is to not have to use the tsort lib directly
[13:26:20] cout: adaedra: but instead to use a high-level interface
[13:26:34] cout: topological sort
[13:26:59] cout: basically I don't want to have to write all the guts to do dependency resolution but build on what already exists (and is already installed on all our machines)
[13:27:11] adaedra: because we were talking about rake above, I don't see the link
[13:28:00] cout: adeponte: the point of make (and also rake) is it correctly orders tasks in order of dependency
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[13:28:06] cout: adeponte: the DSL is icing
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[13:31:01] deded: say i have a block whatever.map {|o| some logic that involved o } - the logic is too long, can i do whatever.map {|0| logic_method} def logic_method; stuff that involve o; end
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[13:31:43] jhass: def logic_method(o); end; whatever.map {|o| logic_method(o) }
[13:31:51] jhass: you can also use newlines in a block
[13:32:29] deded: jhass: does it have to be passed as an argument? it seems to work as it is?
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[13:32:52] jhass: yes it has
[13:32:55] ruboto: Please show your real code to illustrate your problem. Using fake code often hides it or won't bring up the best possible solution.
[13:33:11] deded: jhass: kind of like inside the method o is still available without passing it
[13:33:12] adaedra: well, o may be a method on the object
[13:33:31] adaedra: code may help see that
[13:33:33] jhass: deded: that's very unlikely, as to the why it seems so, see above
[13:33:43] deded: jhass: thanks
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[13:35:22] twinkelhood: Hey, I'm trying to overwrite the initialize of Array, but I'm unsure how to retain original behaviour. was trying something like this:http://pastebin.com/JSXtq2KP
[13:35:23] ruboto: twinkelhood, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/cd3975d29c494c4f2e42
[13:35:23] ruboto: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
[13:36:15] bkxd: twinkelhood: dominated
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[13:38:40] g0rx: i need a programmer :)
[13:38:45] g0rx: i pay via btc
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[13:39:24] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[13:39:35] ericwood: not sketchy at all
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[13:40:14] ljarvis: twinkelhood: You shouldn't monkeypatch Array
[13:40:17] ljarvis: -o ljarvis
[13:40:56] twinkelhood: I know, but for the sake of science.
[13:41:10] twinkelhood: I promise i won't put this in production, probably.
[13:41:18] centrx: g0rx, I prefer to be paid in unmarked envelopes placed under a park bench
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[13:41:39] ljarvis: twinkelhood: did your original code work?
[13:42:19] ljarvis: also, remember you have changed the signature of Array.new completely, so you're not retaining the current behaviour
[13:42:35] twinkelhood: Nope, throws an argumenterror, 0 for 1. And yeah, that's the point, since I don't have inheritance
[13:42:57] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[13:43:26] ljarvis: twinkelhood: you need to default to arg=nil and handle a second argument
[13:43:41] ljarvis: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/Array.html#method-c-new
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[13:44:08] ljarvis: it's a bit more involved if you want the original signature, but you *could* just splat the args
[13:44:30] twinkelhood: But would my super call do the thing?
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[13:44:39] twinkelhood: When i monkeypatch a core class like that?
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[13:45:01] toretore: twinkelhood: as you're not subclassing, you need to alias initialize first, then call the original version from your redefined one
[13:45:02] centrx: you would use alias_method not super no?
[13:45:12] ljarvis: as toretore says, use an alias
[13:45:18] twinkelhood: Riiight, that's what I was thinking of
[13:45:19] toretore: twinkelhood: that being said, what you're doing is stupid
[13:45:55] ljarvis: toretore: it's been pointed out that this shouldn't be done, twinkelhood is hacking
[13:46:14] ljarvis: so let them hack
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[13:46:28] twinkelhood: Yup. My console is all hung up doing meaningful stuff, so just playing with IRB.
[13:46:44] bmurt: has joined #ruby
[13:47:05] ljarvis: is that the code-compiling excuse
[13:47:11] blandflakes: has joined #ruby
[13:47:19] twinkelhood: And my collegues do not have time for my "irellevant"/"dangerous"/"why are we even paying you?" questions.
[13:47:26] twinkelhood: You can call it taht
[13:47:28] adaedra: I'm not slicking off, code's compiling!
[13:47:34] MrBeardy: twinkelhood: looked at pry? it's better than IRB
[13:47:35] twinkelhood: I like calling it the re-importing db excuse.
[13:47:46] twinkelhood: It is pry, to be honest.
[13:48:28] adaedra: Segfault \o/
[13:48:40] bkxd: so for us noobs, why is monkeypatching array such a bad idea?
[13:48:57] bkxd: understand that it could potentially mess with a lot of things and is hard to maintain
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[13:49:03] twinkelhood: Because it'll kill you in your sleep. Subclass it if you want to use your own logic :)
[13:49:10] ljarvis: bkxd: pretty much yep
[13:49:14] bkxd: makes sense
[13:49:22] ljarvis: also, subclasses classes you dont own is also a bad idea ;)
[13:49:27] ljarvis: subclassing*
[13:49:33] twinkelhood: I mean, not that that ever kept activesupport from doing it >:(
[13:49:47] twinkelhood: It depends on what you want.
[13:49:48] ljarvis: meh, they don't hide it
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[13:50:03] adaedra: It's the reason of ActiveSupport
[13:50:18] toretore: it's like all global state, the more said state is relied upon from different users, the bigger the chance of something breaking
[13:50:30] twinkelhood: Am I here some... "That's bad practise unless DHH is doing it" from you guys? <3
[13:50:38] toretore: and Array#initialize is perhaps one of the most relied-upon
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[13:50:59] adaedra: AS just add methods no, not replacing?
[13:51:15] toretore: activesupport's monkey patching, like all monkey patching, is nothing but laziness
[13:51:33] ljarvis: I actually think ActiveSupport is a good idea
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[13:52:19] toretore: some of it is valuable, some isn't.. some improvements found their way back to core as well iirc
[13:52:19] apeiros: active-refinement
[13:52:23] ljarvis: Ruby was built with the flexibility to control/mutate these things. It's arguably one of its greatest strengths. Can't hate on AS because it uses them
[13:52:29] twinkelhood: I'm a fan of it too.
[13:52:34] twinkelhood: I'm just trolling.
[13:52:50] twinkelhood: It does really nice things
[13:53:09] ljarvis: just remember, never require active_support/all unless you're in a rails app or actually NEED everything
[13:53:14] twinkelhood: Like, aliasing << with :append, that just smells of good intentions.
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[13:55:50] wnd: Couple of weeks ago I spent considerable time figuring out why "GET" would an invalid HTTP method according to aws-sdk/seahorse/foo. At the end it turned out someone had monkeypatched String#capitalize to be unicode-aware, but at the same made it incompatible with the behaviour of original String#capitalize. "GET".capitalize would become "Get" and seahorse/aws-sdk would fail hard.
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[13:56:26] twinkelhood: wnd, awesome example.
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[13:57:09] apeiros: wnd: um, that's how capitalize works???
[13:57:11] twinkelhood: Good-intentioned monkey-patching of core stuff, is peeing in someone elses pants to get them to like you. It works at first, then... or.. yeah
[13:57:13] apeiros: >> "GET".capitalize
[13:57:14] ruboto: apeiros # => "Get" (https://eval.in/374348)
[13:57:21] apeiros: that's the expected behavior???
[13:57:33] Darkwater: >> "gEt".upcase
[13:57:36] ruboto: Darkwater # => "GET" (https://eval.in/374350)
[13:57:46] apeiros: .upcase if you want all chars uppercase.
[13:58:07] apeiros: sounds to me like in this instance it wasn't the monkey-patcher's fault :)
[13:58:10] toretore: *would* have been a good example ;)
[13:58:11] twinkelhood: Shhh, he's example still explains what kinds of things goes wrong
[13:58:28] wnd: oh, sorry, it was the opposite. seahorse would expect "Get" but the patched version would basically only touch upcase the first character and not touch the rest.
[13:58:33] apeiros: yeah. sorry for being a punch-line killer :D
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[13:58:54] apeiros: wnd: aha, so "GET".capitalize would return "GET"?
[13:58:57] txdv: o no, he is here, all hide
[13:59:42] apeiros: well, shame on aws-sdk for violating rfc anyway
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[14:00:08] toretore: it's probably not sending "Get"
[14:00:16] toretore: just using it to look up something
[14:00:20] Scripore: has joined #ruby
[14:00:21] wnd: def capitalize; return "" if size < 1; UnicodeUtils.upcase(self[0]) + self[1..-1]; end; end
[14:00:28] araujo: has joined #ruby
[14:00:30] wnd: where did my "class String" go?
[14:00:31] toretore: "Get".constantize probably :P
[14:00:39] apeiros: wnd: yupp, that's indeed a broken patch
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[14:01:01] apeiros: should be `UnicodeUtils.upcase(self[0]) + UnicodeUtils.downcase(self[1..-1])`
[14:01:20] toretore: or `def unicode_upcase`
[14:01:25] apeiros: and yes, it's still a bad idea to monkey-patch String's method to do that :)
[14:01:28] wnd: best part is that the code did come with explanation how it was supposed to work and it /did/ work exactly as described
[14:01:30] txdv: >> "shevy " * 100
[14:01:31] apeiros: expected behavior is ascii only
[14:01:31] ruboto: txdv # => "shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy she ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374356)
[14:01:48] jhass: txdv: seriously, that's what we get from lifting your ban?
[14:01:52] apeiros: !kick txdv don't use the bot for spam
[14:01:52] helpa: apeiros: No.
[14:01:53] ruboto: ruboto kicked txdv: use the bot for spam
[14:01:53] ruboto: -o ruboto
[14:01:54] catcher: has joined #ruby
[14:02:03] apeiros: oh, we even had them banned?
[14:02:24] txdv: has joined #ruby
[14:02:27] txdv: ok sorry
[14:02:40] txdv: its just a thing i do to shevy
[14:02:47] jhass: well, stop it
[14:02:57] txdv: but then it wouldn't be our thing anymore
[14:03:17] apeiros: we don't care
[14:03:21] Kricir: has joined #ruby
[14:03:23] apeiros: this channel is not here for you to spam it.
[14:03:38] txdv: This is actually a call for shevy to join the conversation
[14:03:49] txdv: Is inviting people to a conversation forbidden?
[14:03:50] jhass: txdv: next time you do it, you're gone again. End of discussion
[14:03:52] ixti: has joined #ruby
[14:04:03] yorickpeterse: see we should totally go back to #ruby-lang
[14:04:06] jhass: (continue the discussion and you're gone too)
[14:04:19] txdv: How is the weather?
[14:04:29] jhass: a bit cloudy
[14:04:37] adaedra: So happy together ???
[14:04:37] yorickpeterse: http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/zmw:00000.1.47159 it's ok
[14:04:46] imperator: ACTION hates dealing with authentication
[14:04:53] apeiros: ACTION starts a betting pool for how long it takes until yorickpeterse founds #ruby-rants
[14:05:04] apeiros: imperator: in irc?
[14:05:17] imperator: apeiros, azure
[14:05:18] a346: has joined #ruby
[14:05:29] txdv: jhass: why did you lift my ban?
[14:05:40] imperator: there's a simple way and a hard way....we, of course, must use the hard way
[14:05:41] apeiros: txdv: seriously, just go to #ruby-offtopic already.
[14:05:53] yorickpeterse: apeiros: I would've done that years ago if I wanted to
[14:05:57] jhass: txdv: if you want to discuss bans, join #ruby-banned
[14:05:59] adaedra: apeiros: is it still empty?
[14:06:12] apeiros: adaedra: yupp
[14:06:15] yorickpeterse: apeiros: why would I if there's #ruby-lang/#ruby?
[14:06:17] imperator: spent a bunch of time messing around with oauth2 yesterday only to be informed that i'm doing it wrong ;)
[14:06:33] apeiros: yorickpeterse: hence my betting pool???
[14:07:27] yorickpeterse: lol, guy here in the hostel begging to borrow a phone with 3G
[14:07:41] yorickpeterse: "mine doesn't work here, spare me a phone plz"
[14:08:13] momomomomo_: has joined #ruby
[14:08:18] twinkelhood: Give him a potato, some copper wire and say "just extend your reception", and when he looks confused say
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[14:10:26] yorickpeterse: ah yes vacation
[14:10:30] apeiros: 4 more and we have 1KiP
[14:10:36] yorickpeterse: that time of the year where FOSS productivity is 10x higher than usual
[14:10:46] txdv: why is it higher?
[14:10:47] yorickpeterse: and the wifi 10x shittier
[14:10:57] yorickpeterse: txdv: because there's nobody to bother me
[14:11:07] yorickpeterse: and because I don't have to go to an office during the day
[14:11:09] txdv: but you are spending your 'efficient time' on irc
[14:11:11] txdv: how can be that efficient
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[14:14:03] twinkelhood: Wait that's not how i spell my name.. what did i do. I did find it weird it didn't ask for my password...
[14:14:11] fmcgeough: has joined #ruby
[14:14:45] MrBeardy: twinkel looks dutch
[14:15:04] Torrieri: has joined #ruby
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[14:17:11] yorickpeterse: well, it _is_ a valid Dutch word
[14:17:45] fgo: has joined #ruby
[14:17:56] TwinkleHood: I dun wunner be dutch D:
[14:18:57] mcclurmc: has joined #ruby
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[14:19:34] yorickpeterse: well, you can't be unless you're a superior human being
[14:19:45] jaequery: has joined #ruby
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[14:20:38] yorickpeterse: 10x the height, 10x the strength, 10x the taxes (:<)
[14:20:38] jhass: I see yorick never heard of the human design system
[14:20:51] yorickpeterse: but there's no such thing as telnt!!!11
[14:21:02] yorickpeterse: I hate this wifi
[14:21:06] mase-chatter: has joined #ruby
[14:21:11] yorickpeterse: somebody must be downloading lots of Linux ISOs, works fine when everybody is out
[14:21:55] adaedra: yeah right, Linux ISOs.
[14:22:15] yorickpeterse: adaedra: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Linux+ISO
[14:22:44] adaedra: If people would stop /quit, I would be able to click that link.
[14:22:58] surrounder: fix that in your client then
[14:23:00] adaedra: yorickpeterse: TIL
[14:23:10] yorickpeterse: ^ both weechat and IRC can filter parts
[14:23:19] adaedra: I don't want to remove parts
[14:23:20] mikecmpbll: or more worrying, improve reaction speed / mouse control
[14:23:29] surrounder: indeed, very easy with weechat to toggle too
[14:23:42] adaedra: And why would I fix my setup when it's obvious that it's other people fault >_>
[14:24:01] ljarvis: lmao if you list joins/parts/quits
[14:24:29] centrx: They show the passage of time naturally
[14:24:44] yorickpeterse: adaedra: what client are you using?
[14:25:03] yorickpeterse: oh hm, that's one of those hipster clients
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[14:25:25] yorickpeterse: either way, Weechat at least can use a "smart" filter, where it hides /parts and /quits unless said person spoke in the past few minutes
[14:25:34] adaedra: I had that once
[14:25:37] ljarvis: do you even irssi
[14:25:39] yorickpeterse: also I meant Irssi instead of IRC above
[14:25:55] yorickpeterse: ACTION notices the clock says 23:25, might explain a few things
[14:26:11] ljarvis: that you should be closing oga issues and getting drunk?
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[14:26:47] txdv: yorickpeterse: that is something useful
[14:27:00] watchtheblur: has joined #ruby
[14:27:05] adaedra: but heh, I actually don't mind joins/parts
[14:27:14] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: I'm writing Rust actually
[14:27:38] ljarvis: right, so getting drunk might help
[14:27:50] watchtheblur: has joined #ruby
[14:28:00] yorickpeterse: but I'm not a fan of Korean booze :<
[14:28:05] yorickpeterse: and rice wine is meh
[14:28:18] yorickpeterse: though I did spot a place that had Dutch beer, but it's closed now
[14:28:52] kies: has joined #ruby
[14:28:54] ljarvis: how long are you there?
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[14:30:49] yorickpeterse: until Friday next week
[14:30:57] yorickpeterse: a massive 3 weeks
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[14:31:15] yorickpeterse: (some sarcasm there)
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[14:32:11] izzol: Hmm, how to convert: Mail::AddressContainer to String? I'm using gem: mail and I can get my e-mail from mail.from but this is a: Mail::AddressContainer.
[14:32:46] izzol: And I need to do something with the string (using split or something), but I cannot since this is not a string :(
[14:32:56] ericwood: izzol: call .address.to_s on it
[14:33:29] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: Rust is actually not too bad after the first week of beatings
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[14:35:46] atomical: if you stop using it do you get ptsd?
[14:35:53] symbol: has joined #ruby
[14:36:00] izzol: ericwood: hmm, I thought that I already tested it but probably in wrong way or something. Anyway it works now. Thanks ;-)
[14:36:27] adaedra: atomical: prsd
[14:36:38] adaedra: (post-rust)
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[14:37:20] yorickpeterse: atomical: no idea, haven't stopped using it yet
[14:37:32] yorickpeterse: I do miss Ruby though
[14:37:52] adaedra: I still hasn't dig enough into Rust
[14:38:03] adaedra: english is hard
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[14:39:59] ljarvis: yorickpeterse: I've written a fair amount actually, but still not a huge fan. The syntax gets me quite confused at times and I find it often hard to read rust code for learning purposes
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[14:40:19] puppeh: is there anyway I can limit the StackProf::Middleware to a specific unicorn worker?
[14:40:20] ljarvis: lol a fair amount is a gross over estimation, more like a couple thousand lines
[14:40:31] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: oh yeah, it requires quite the computing power to grok
[14:40:43] yorickpeterse: unless they cut down on the syntax bullshit I don't see this becoming as popular as Go for example
[14:41:15] ljarvis: i dunno, maybe. I think it'll be popular either way. Some people seem prepared to accept all of the syntax stuff that bothers me
[14:41:26] yorickpeterse: also it's pretty annoying it's either unique pointers or "lol fuck you, reference counting"
[14:41:32] ljarvis: but not being able to read other peoples code very well becomes a blocker quickly for me
[14:41:45] yorickpeterse: https://github.com/YorickPeterse/aeon/tree/master/src <- well, I'd say this isn't _too_ bad
[14:41:49] ljarvis: i like the safety
[14:41:54] yorickpeterse: mostly because I've been pretty aggressive at cutting down the amount of lifetime parameters
[14:41:58] yorickpeterse: which helps quite a bit
[14:42:30] yorickpeterse: what I hate though is cargo being slower than Rails to start up
[14:42:31] ljarvis: right, your code looks pretty sane compared to a lot I've looked through
[14:42:42] yorickpeterse: $ time cargo build
[14:42:59] yorickpeterse: that's 770 lines of code
[14:43:09] ljarvis: that's just rustc being slow, no?
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[14:43:35] ljarvis: yeah i found it a bit annoying but i'm quite used to Go's near instant compilation
[14:43:53] yorickpeterse: Part of it is probably LLVM not being the fastest thing on the planet
[14:43:58] yorickpeterse: Although somehow clang can compile super fast
[14:44:05] ljarvis: i love clang
[14:44:12] jhass: different default optimization level?
[14:44:21] yorickpeterse: I can't even compile with optimizations
[14:44:23] ljarvis: ^ that's a decent point
[14:44:35] jhass: llvm's optimizations stage is what takes the insane amount of time
[14:44:36] yorickpeterse: because of https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/25940
[14:44:42] jhass: there are about 5 levels I think
[14:44:49] jhass: 0 (=none) is super fast
[14:45:03] jhass: just slow in runtime, but good enough for dev usually
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[14:45:34] yorickpeterse: http://llvm.org/docs/doxygen/html/AArch64PerfectShuffle_8h_source.html
[14:45:50] yorickpeterse: warning: peasant ocmputers might not load that page
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[14:46:08] ljarvis: yorickpeterse: your notes on this language look at *lot* like my toy language
[14:46:21] ljarvis: like... almost identical
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[14:46:53] yorickpeterse: heh, I have a whole lot more in my notebooks
[14:47:17] yorickpeterse: basically it would be ruby + smalltalk + Rust (error handling wise)
[14:47:21] yorickpeterse: plus gradual typing
[14:47:28] ljarvis: although ugh, remove dat ->
[14:47:37] yorickpeterse: though the typing would be compile only, the VM don' care
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[14:47:48] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: oh yeah, the syntax itself is still a bit of a rough sketch
[14:48:06] yorickpeterse: Not sure what I'd use in place of -> though, I kinda enjoy the return type being in postfix form
[14:48:13] yorickpeterse: => might be an option
[14:48:33] yorickpeterse: ideally it wouldn't require usage of the shift key at all, but I can't think of any sigils that would make sense
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[14:49:08] yorickpeterse: maybe just a : or something, not sure yet
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[14:49:19] yorickpeterse: also one of the things I have to think of is sharing memory
[14:49:24] ljarvis: I used nothing
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[14:49:43] yorickpeterse: e.g. I want memory to be thread-local by default, but that wouldn't work if you want to share for example a mutex
[14:50:03] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: also an option
[14:50:28] dfockler: are you writing a language?
[14:50:43] yorickpeterse: I believe Erlang implements mutexes as actual actors/channels, which is interesting
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[14:51:02] yorickpeterse: but that would require some sort of spinlock whenever trying to access the lock, which will fuck CPU usage
[14:51:05] yorickpeterse: dfockler: yesh
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[14:51:45] dfockler: cool! that's something I've been looking at, although no where near mutexes or shared memory
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[14:51:59] yorickpeterse: I'm basically doing everything at once
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[14:52:59] dfockler: I'm trying to figure out syntax for a set based language, where every operation is based around sets
[14:53:45] txdv: lisp is about lists
[14:53:48] txdv: how will you call that language?
[14:53:58] dfockler: right now it's call crappy lang
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[14:54:16] txdv: it probably describes the implementation as well?
[14:54:24] dfockler: haha absolutely
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[14:55:04] dfockler: yorickpeterse: what language are you writing it in?
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[14:56:00] yorickpeterse: dfockler: Rust
[14:56:08] dfockler: hey me too!
[14:56:09] mistnim: hello, one file for each class or not? what is the standard in ruby?
[14:56:11] yorickpeterse: although that will only be used for the VM, I intend to bootstrap the whole thing
[14:56:17] yorickpeterse: mistnim: usually yes
[14:56:18] ericwood: mistnim: one file for class usually
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[15:01:56] mwlang: has anyone used prediction.io with Ruby? I???m trying the ???quickstart??? tutorial here: https://docs.prediction.io/templates/ecommercerecommendation/quickstart/ but the Ruby examples seem completely ???off??? ??? either that or I just don???t quite follow.
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[15:02:56] yorickpeterse: "unresolved name `array_instance`. Did you mean `float_instance`?" lol rust you drunk
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[15:03:35] morissette: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4f95172085c9726fa742 - anyone know why I am getting this error?
[15:04:02] yorickpeterse: mwlang: what problems are you running into?
[15:04:23] imperator: morissette, possible one of your tests set it to nil?
[15:04:26] yorickpeterse: morissette: is @driver actually set before calling teardown?
[15:04:35] centrx: morissette, undefined method X for nil:NilClass means you have a nil where you expected an object
[15:04:54] morissette: I understand the error just not why the object doesn't exist
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[15:05:25] imperator: it appears to be defined in setup, so it's possible one of your tests set it to nil somewhere somehow
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[15:06:04] imperator: you could change the line in teardown to @driver.quit if @driver
[15:06:16] morissette: How about more code: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/0b2dc24849151df179c3
[15:06:20] mwlang: yorickpeterse: I???m trying to ???translate??? the curl examples to the Ruby examples now???I can definitely tell the Ruby examples are pure rubbish.
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[15:06:30] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: https://gist.github.com/YorickPeterse/d6392afc1d451d8a3cd7 lol
[15:06:52] jhass: morissette: how about some syntax highlighting in the future, just name your file whatever.rb or pick from the dropdown ;)
[15:06:54] yorickpeterse: mwlang: you know their Ruby examples use an SDK right?
[15:07:11] ljarvis: yorickpeterse: noice.to_string()
[15:07:24] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: haha yeah, that's because I use String all over the place
[15:07:31] yorickpeterse: and there's no syntax for creating a String :/
[15:07:32] dfockler: mwlang: yeah those examples are basically just a wrapper around the curl requests
[15:07:34] morissette: syntax highlighting:https://gist.github.com/anonymous/348885768cf48c5b3d72
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[15:08:38] dfockler: Vec<Box<Option<i32>>>
[15:08:56] mwlang: dfockler: going in with eyes wide open now???.I was at first just doing simple substites to replace <USER_ID> with real values and trying and not getting expected results.
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[15:09:42] jhass: morissette: *shrug*, perhaps you hit a var internal to minitest? would be sad if so, but try using a different name just for the sake of ruling that out
[15:10:13] TommyTheKid: I have a multiline string as a hash value that I am trying to use to_yaml on, hoping that it would use the "|" syntax to allow it to spread over multiple lines "cleanly" and its putting it in double quotes with \n's... which is technically valid, but ugly. is there an "easy" way to make to_yaml output multiline strings with yaml | syntax?
[15:10:26] TommyTheKid: (for what its worth, my "string" is an SSL certificate) :)
[15:10:50] dfockler: mwlang: I mean you should replace the <USER ID> part with an id like in the REST API example
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[15:11:48] Synthead: how can I write a block that has multiple "block" variables? I know how to utilize blocks, but I'm not sure about how to write this block itself.
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[15:12:25] dorei: >> [[1,2], [3,4]].map{|x,y| x+y}
[15:12:26] ruboto: dorei # => [3, 7] (https://eval.in/374386)
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[15:13:05] dorei: something like that Synthead?
[15:13:57] Synthead: dorei: I know how to use blocks, but I'm looking to write a block method myself. do I just return an array with yield and do something like "do |foo, bar|"?
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[15:15:53] dorei: >> def x ; yield [1,2] ; end ; x {|a,b| a+b}
[15:15:54] ruboto: dorei # => 3 (https://eval.in/374387)
[15:16:01] dorei: >> def x ; yield 1,2 ; end ; x {|a,b| a+b}
[15:16:02] ruboto: dorei # => 3 (https://eval.in/374388)
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[15:17:20] Synthead: dorei: ah that's great, thanks!
[15:17:21] jhass: TommyTheKid: mmh, it seems to do that by default pretty aggressively for me
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[15:17:37] jhass: TommyTheKid: might want to play with line_width and canonical
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[15:17:48] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: refresh my mind for a moment, "foo" is an instance of String, String is a Class, and is an instance of Class. What would you call String here? It's not the singleton class IIRC
[15:17:48] jhass: only options you have besides indentation anyway
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[15:18:35] yorickpeterse: hm, if I change my terms I can work around this I think
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[15:19:30] mwlang: dfockler: yeah, I see it now???at first I was completely missing it because, well, I had the Ruby tab opened, not hte Curl tab, so there was a ???disconnect??? with what was written and what the code was showing.
[15:19:32] ljarvis: yorickpeterse: i don't follow exactly, you described it pretty well
[15:19:48] Takumo: So, I've build a rest API as a rack application, anyone got any tips for writing benchmarks for a rack application? I want to run a bunch of calls and measure response times, CPU times, memory usage etc. I could just do it with Benchmark::BM but is there something more integrated with rack?
[15:19:48] TommyTheKid: jhass: I noticed that most people were trying to get it to *not* split over multiple lines ;)
[15:20:02] TommyTheKid: I just want it to "obey" the \ns
[15:20:05] jhass: Synthead: note there's a subtle difference between yield 1, 2 and yield [1, 2], play around with blocks accepting either one or two params and those variants ;)
[15:20:10] mwlang: Takumo: use Apache???s ab command.
[15:20:22] ljarvis: TommyTheKid: https://engineering.heroku.com/blogs/2014-11-03-benchmarking-rack-middleware
[15:20:31] yorickpeterse: ljarvis: the problem is I have a Class in my VM, but that really is just the structure, not an actual class in the language. It is however mapped to a class in the language
[15:20:43] yorickpeterse: so I had a method called "allocate_pinned_class", which allocates a VM class
[15:20:52] jhass: TommyTheKid: perhaps you got literal \n's for some strange reason like calling inspect somewhere?
[15:20:53] yorickpeterse: which I've just renamed to "allocate_native_class" which should solve the problem
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[15:22:21] ljarvis: that sounds nicer
[15:22:27] Takumo: ljarvis: interesting, thanks.
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[15:24:25] TommyTheKid: jhass: I wouldn't be surprised if something is getting wonky, its coming into puppet via hiera, and normally I just put it into a "file" (/etc/pki/tls/certs/blah.pem), but this time I need it to go to /path/to/app/shared/config/secrets.yml
[15:24:58] ljarvis: ugh puppet
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[15:32:13] kaen: Hi, I'm source diving to debug an issue with a colleague. Is there a way for a mere mortal to get the D "foo" output such as this: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/7393bf6a5cfff63683f36535e293caaa0d4c5be0/lib/net/http.rb#L882
[15:32:18] kaen: with a release build?
[15:32:40] someword: i'm working on an exercise from exercism.io. Need to convert binary to decimal. I have a working solution at https://gist.github.com/anonymous/0e36f055a967c68900b4 - but i'm curious if anyone has any input on the 'to_decimal' method. Having the method guard against invalid input and then actually call the real conversion method. Does that seem 'normal' ? Any other things I should thing? TIA
[15:33:14] ljarvis: kaen: did you try with $DEBUG?
[15:33:34] kaen: I tried with DEBUG=true ruby ...
[15:33:37] kaen: didn't get anything
[15:33:41] kaen: also tried --debug
[15:33:47] kaen: but only got the caught exceptions
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[15:34:10] TommyTheKid: thanks tho guys
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[15:34:37] someword: TommyTheKid: Are you using an erb temlate to write your yaml file?
[15:34:37] ljarvis: kaen: http://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.0.0/Net/HTTP.html#method-i-D
[15:34:39] a1fa: hello, for ruby apps that remain in a loop connected to a mysql database, is it better to connect to unix socket or over localhost?
[15:34:41] gregf_: >> [4.to_s(2), 100.to_s(10)];
[15:34:42] ruboto: gregf_ # => ["100", "100"] (https://eval.in/374390)
[15:34:49] TommyTheKid: someword: yes
[15:34:56] ljarvis: kaen: debug_output can be enabled with http.set_debug_output $stderr
[15:35:10] kaen: I thought it was like a global debugging macro
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[15:35:37] someword: TommyTheKid: You played with the various options to remove/keep whitespace (<- vs <) ?
[15:35:55] TommyTheKid: <%= @secrets.to_yaml %>
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[15:36:42] TommyTheKid: like I told my co-workers, I know its still technically the same value, its just ugly ;)
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[15:37:00] catphish: is it safe to call hash.delete(k) during hash.each{|k,v|}
[15:37:05] ljarvis: catphish: no
[15:37:11] TommyTheKid: someword: I am using <%=
[15:37:23] ljarvis: did that help?
[15:37:35] adaedra: you're not supposed to modify something you're iterating through
[15:37:49] catphish: well it depends how the iteration works
[15:37:53] ljarvis: catphish: delete_if was invented for this reason
[15:38:05] jhass: someword: should probably cache the values for the last two methods
[15:38:07] someword: TommyTheKid: Maybe trying to manually write out a here document in the template?
[15:38:07] tbuehlmann: as this is similar to arrays, that's unexpected behaviour
[15:38:12] catphish: ljarvis: i'd use delete_if normally, but in this case i call out to another method that removes entries
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[15:38:37] ljarvis: catphish: still do that, but have that method return true/false based on some criteria?
[15:38:38] jhass: someword: you may like Array.new with a block
[15:38:50] someword: jhass: would it be best to create the variables in the initialize method or in the binary_to_decimal method?
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[15:38:54] TommyTheKid: someword: that was what I was thinking. I can do a map, and detect the type (or length) of the value and deal with it that way
[15:38:59] catphish: ljarvis: the problem is that method already does the delete
[15:39:05] catphish: i can rework it
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[15:39:40] nmyster: catphish - I'd make a copy of it, modify the copy then use that
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[15:40:13] catphish: thanks, i think i prefer to use a delete_if block, i'll make modifications elsewhere to accomodate that
[15:40:20] nmyster: i.e hashCopy = hash
[15:40:20] nmyster: hash.each do | k,v |
[15:40:20] nmyster: hashCopy.delete(k)
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[15:40:27] jhass: someword: I'd keep them local to the method for these cases, not everybody agrees though
[15:40:38] ljarvis: nmyster: that isn't right
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[15:40:50] someword: jhass: Thanks for your input!
[15:41:03] ljarvis: nmyster: you probably want .clone
[15:41:12] ljarvis: but yeah, delete_if would be better either way
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[15:41:31] nmyster: yeah either way - my point is making a copy means your not adjusting the current hash your iterating
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[15:42:58] jhass: someword: you might also want to test with the input values "010foo" and "foo\n010"
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[15:43:23] someword: jhass: thanks - i'll add some tests right now
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[15:48:10] izzol: https://github.com/wolfedale/ruby/blob/master/enc.rb
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[15:48:34] izzol: It makes sense more or less?
[15:48:38] nmyster: has anyone had any use of the ruby sonos gem
[15:48:51] nmyster: https://github.com/soffes/sonos
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[15:52:09] mwlang: nmyster: that just makes me want to go out and buy a sonos speaker system. Looks like fun.
[15:52:24] nmyster: its great!
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[15:52:34] nmyster: however... i think it broke after latest sonos update
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[15:53:03] nmyster: In my office we have a sonos - I have developed a hipchat bot that lets you interact with Sonos via hipchat - pretty cool
[15:53:09] nmyster: but, it stopped working
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[15:53:46] txdv: who is sonos
[15:53:56] adaedra: damn hardware vendors who break everything with their updates
[15:54:25] nmyster: that, with the Spotify gem - https://github.com/Burgestrand/spotify - You can do something like #sonos{artist,Queen} and it would give you the top track for that artist has on spotify and if you replied #yes it would queue it to sonos
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[15:54:42] nmyster: I am fairly new to Ruby but I find the gems people have made actually make me love Ruby
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[15:55:08] nmyster: Favourite gems so far are the Sonos one (pre-breaking), hue gem by same devs and spotify gem
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[15:55:26] nmyster: messing with people in the office using irb > sonos.volume = 100 is always fun :P
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[15:56:05] MrBeardy: get in touch with the maintainer and see if there's anything they can do to fix it
[15:56:14] MrBeardy: (maintainer of that gem*)
[15:56:37] MrBeardy: plus, for brownie points, you could research the problem before-hand and look through the code to see if you could spot any issues
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[15:57:34] nmyster: yeah i started doing that but got side tracked
[15:57:44] Senjai: jhass: I'm so proud....
[15:57:57] Senjai: the tears of joy are real
[15:58:25] Senjai: congrats on the merge
[15:58:58] jhass: thanks, all I wanted is to make #ruby the official channel :P
[15:59:26] txdv: official channel of what?
[15:59:36] Senjai: But will yorickpeterse still go on his rants in a more populated channel. #thatisthequestion
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[16:00:33] adaedra: #HashtagsOnIRC
[16:00:54] finisherr: So, what???s the recommended method of distributing a CLI application w/ a specific version of ruby and specfic bundles?
[16:01:04] nmyster_: has joined #ruby
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[16:01:35] adaedra: forcing the ruby version and gem version in Gemfile and let people install that?
[16:01:38] mwlang: do prediction.io engines have to be in scala, java, or python? or can they also be in Ruby?
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[16:03:19] dfockler: mwlang: looks like the core server is in scala
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[16:04:04] jhass: is traveling ruby a thing already?
[16:04:12] jhass: finisherr: ^ look up if so
[16:04:25] havenwood: Even works on Win.
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[16:04:50] finisherr: I think vagrant bundles it???s own interpreter
[16:04:51] kinduff: has joined #ruby
[16:04:52] finisherr: but i???m not sure
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[16:05:13] finisherr: i basically just want the application to work without any harsh system dependencies
[16:05:13] havenwood: finisherr: https://phusion.github.io/traveling-ruby/
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[16:05:30] finisherr: Will look into that
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[16:06:43] finisherr: Awesome, this looks great
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[16:21:29] jhass: !fact mk ugt it's morning, see http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
[16:21:30] ruboto: jhass, I will remember that ugt is it's morning, see http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
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[16:25:08] xxneolithicxx: im afraid of ruboto
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[16:25:51] xxneolithicxx: if he ever becomes sentient hes going to be one hell of an admin
[16:26:25] m0r0n: Can someone tel me why the array list gets printed at the end of this program? http://pastebin.com/r3RNuX7U
[16:26:26] ruboto: m0r0n, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/26b9f242e77c1e97ef78
[16:26:26] ruboto: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
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[16:27:00] jhass: what do you mean?
[16:27:06] jhass: do you run this in irb/pry?
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[16:27:25] m0r0n: According to Codecademy, the output is "1112131415[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]"
[16:27:37] m0r0n: I expected everything but the array
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[16:28:11] jhass: looks like they print the return value of the each call then
[16:28:20] jhass: which is the receiver, in this case the array
[16:28:57] jhass: >> [1, 2, 3].each do |x| print x; end.inspect
[16:28:58] ruboto: jhass # => 123"[1, 2, 3]" (https://eval.in/374396)
[16:29:18] jhass: where did you pick up "#{x}" btw?
[16:29:21] bootstrappm: m0r0n: that is, the array isn't actually in the output if you were to run that ruby program normally. The tool you're using to run it just happens to print the return value of the last line as well
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[16:30:10] xxneolithicxx: its being "helpful", whatever it is you are using
[16:30:32] m0r0n: bootstrappm, Okay. That clears it up. jhass, That was something Codecademy used, I didn't modify their code when I pasted
[16:30:44] jhass: ah, so that's where
[16:31:18] m0r0n: I hate Codecademy, but I need to rush through it to find some common syntax I don't know for an interview tomorrow
[16:31:31] jhass: m0r0n: "#{x}" with nothing before #{ or after } is an anti idiom, just call x.to_s if x isn't a string already, or in this case print x, print calls to_s for you
[16:31:41] jhass: ?quickref
[16:31:42] ruboto: http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/QuickRef.html
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[16:32:09] m0r0n: jhass, Thanks. This looks cleaner
[16:32:24] MrBeardy: m0r0n: You'd learn a lot more a lot faster from the pickaxe book than from the codeacademy tutorials
[16:32:30] m0r0n: and about the #{}, yeah I wasn't entirely sure why they did that
[16:32:53] m0r0n: I'm actually learning Ruby on Rails via Rails 4 in Action
[16:33:12] m0r0n: then I realized I needed some more Ruby experience to get through it properly
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[16:33:31] m0r0n: I'm rusty with hashes and blocks, at this point
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[16:36:39] MrBeardy: you should definitely take some time out to learn ruby fully on its own, rather than just as a by-product to learn rails
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[16:38:47] m0r0n: That's the best route, I admit. I just needed to get a couple interviews to see what people expect from a Jr. Dev
[16:38:51] bootstrappm: If you're just trying to make something quickly I disagree. If you learn ruby fully you'll be looking into stuff you'll likely never use (e.g. metaprogramming) if you're just gonna create little projects
[16:39:07] bootstrappm: pareto principle as in everything m0r0n
[16:39:12] bootstrappm: figure out the 20% you need to know
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[16:39:18] ytti: http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-big-bowl-%E2%80%9Cspaghetti%E2%80%9D-code
[16:40:03] jhass: toyotas cars run on Ruby?
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[16:43:24] mwlang: hmmm???I like UGT timezone. Time.zone needs to implement ???UGT??? :-)
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[16:43:41] bootstrappm: interesting article though
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[16:51:20] bootstrappm: I'm actually gonna hop off today to focus on a freelance project
[16:51:42] centrx: hip hip hop away
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[16:53:20] BanzaiJoe: bootstrappm actually pareto principle would be m0r0m , hahaha, I crack myself up
[16:54:00] bootstrappm: haha palindrome principle :P
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[16:56:16] mwlang: bootstrappm: I think I shall follow suit. trouble concentrating on the ???real work??? today.
[16:56:49] bootstrappm: yeah, sometimes you just need a little less multitasking mwlang
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[16:57:26] chipotle: FIFA head is resigning!!
[16:57:29] JohnBat26: has joined #ruby
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[16:57:33] BanzaiJoe: the president?
[16:57:39] BanzaiJoe: Bam Splatter?
[16:57:45] adaedra: wasn't he elected like, two days ago?
[16:57:54] chipotle: a complete cunt
[16:57:57] BanzaiJoe: Sepp Blatter
[16:58:06] adaedra: I don't even know why I'm taking interest on this
[16:58:26] BanzaiJoe: because it's better than Game of Heroes or The Good Wife
[16:58:28] chipotle: because the level of corruption is insane
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[16:58:46] adaedra: Fifa runs under FAT32?
[16:58:52] BanzaiJoe: and it's been known for decades and it's vindicating to know the bad guys are going down
[16:59:19] BanzaiJoe: there's a first in first (a) joke in there somewhere....
[16:59:21] kinduff: mwlang: When called one time is morning, second time is night?
[16:59:22] adaedra: If only big corrupted guys could go down more often...
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[17:30:24] mwlang: How to I get this to give me every match, not just the first match? https://gist.github.com/mwlang/a72550bea798482e5eab
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[17:30:47] jhass: mwlang: scan?
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[17:31:23] mwlang: jhass: geez. too stupid simple.
[17:31:28] simon_: So, I'm looking at getting into programming/web development, I'm looking at the online courses that focus on RoR - Are they any good?
[17:31:45] havenwood: ?rails Simon_
[17:31:45] ruboto: Simon_, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
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[17:31:54] mwlang: the day is only half gone and I???m already slippin???.
[17:32:42] mwlang: Simon_: https://medium.com/how-i-learned-ruby-rails/how-i-trained-to-learn-rails-e08c94e2a51e
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[17:33:15] havenwood: Simon_: Do learn Ruby! \o/ This is a great place for Ruby questions or feedback.
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[17:48:53] phale: I'm here to help.
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[17:49:06] centrx: phale, Get me a coffee!
[17:49:11] phale: centrx: Will do
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[17:50:33] phale: >> def get_coffee(who) print "Gives coffee to: #{who}"; end; get_coffee("centrx");
[17:50:34] ruboto: phale # => Gives coffee to: centrxnil (https://eval.in/374434)
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[17:54:25] Darkwater: >> "\x037hi"
[17:54:26] ruboto: Darkwater # => "\u00037hi" (https://eval.in/374435)
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[17:54:51] phale: Darkwater: Don't use the Ruby bot for your own purposes (unless it's demonstrative)
[17:55:13] Darkwater: wanted to see if I could make it output irc colors
[17:55:19] Darkwater: but I guess the channel is +c'd anyway so meh
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[18:16:40] elev: I will reconnect, god issues
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[18:18:22] Master44: Whats the different of using "#{}" or just the variable?"
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[18:18:53] baweaver_: The former calls to_s
[18:19:06] ruboto: baweaver_ # => "1" (https://eval.in/374452)
[18:19:09] ruboto: baweaver_ # => 1 (https://eval.in/374453)
[18:19:36] TommyTheKid: is it OK to ask a question about rails here too?
[18:19:45] baweaver_: #RubyOnRails TommyTheKid
[18:20:10] Master44: puts "#{1}"
[18:20:25] Master44: so puts h and puts (h) its the same=
[18:20:27] baweaver_: Ruby infers them, and try not to post multi-line code
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[18:20:45] baweaver_: Use gist for that
[18:20:57] baweaver_: There ARE cases where that'll bite you
[18:21:00] Master44: so what does the () do?
[18:21:09] baweaver_: What does it do in other languages?
[18:21:24] Master44: well thanks :)
[18:21:29] baweaver_: Ruby just infers them
[18:21:35] baweaver_: (most of the time)
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[18:22:06] baweaver_: The edge case is with blocks: array.reduce 0 do |acc, i| ... end
[18:22:08] baweaver_: that's fine
[18:22:26] baweaver_: >> [1,2,3].reduce 0 do |acc, i| acc + i end
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[18:22:27] ruboto: baweaver_ # => 6 (https://eval.in/374454)
[18:22:31] Master44: I only know ruby
[18:22:37] Master44: I am new to programming
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[18:23:03] baweaver_: >> [1,2,3].reduce 0 { |acc, i| acc + i }
[18:23:04] ruboto: baweaver_ # => /tmp/execpad-316c73f57ac1/source-316c73f57ac1:2: syntax error, unexpected '{', expecting keyword_end ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374455)
[18:23:17] miah: () limits scope basically
[18:23:18] baweaver_: that's the case where it needs them for agruments to distinguish from a block
[18:23:31] baweaver_: >> [1,2,3].reduce(0) { |acc, i| acc + i }
[18:23:32] ruboto: baweaver_ # => 6 (https://eval.in/374456)
[18:23:35] miah: and most of the time its not needed, but often times its helpful
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[18:24:58] Master44: this sign: () What does insert mean?
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[18:25:19] miah: () by itself is nothing
[18:25:33] miah: >> 1 + ( 2 * 4 )
[18:25:34] ruboto: miah # => 9 (https://eval.in/374457)
[18:25:47] baweaver_: >> 1 + 2 * 4
[18:25:48] ruboto: baweaver_ # => 9 (https://eval.in/374458)
[18:25:51] havenwood: >> ().class
[18:25:52] ruboto: havenwood # => NilClass (https://eval.in/374459)
[18:25:55] baweaver_: >> (1 + 2) * 4
[18:25:56] ruboto: baweaver_ # => 12 (https://eval.in/374460)
[18:26:17] mwlang: for regex, how do I say ???consume everything up-to the word ???Processing????
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[18:26:31] miah: /.*Processing/
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[18:26:38] Master44: so when i write I never use ()
[18:26:50] havenwood: mwlang: negative lookahead
[18:27:15] Master44: ok got it ty
[18:27:30] miah: the only times i use () is when im defining a method that has arguments, or i'm calling a method with arguments. im sure there are others but those are the ones that stand out
[18:28:00] baweaver_: Basically go out and program something, you'll find out pretty fast.
[18:28:07] miah: but even when im calling a method that has arguments, using () isnt required. i just do it for cleanliness
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[18:28:24] baweaver_: miah: Not an adherent of Seattle style eh?
[18:28:26] miah: ya, that. go write some code
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[18:28:50] miah: i guess not? =)
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[18:29:05] baweaver_: def method args, have, no, parens
[18:29:05] miah: eloquent ruby and rsg have been my bibles
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[18:29:27] baweaver_: that's Seattle style
[18:29:29] Master44: I did baweaver, thats why I asked I saw a video and he used () just wonted to know why he did
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[18:29:49] baweaver_: though I'm sure zenspider is cringing at me saying that
[18:29:54] havenwood: mwlang: i mean positive lookahead
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[18:30:14] mwlang: havenwood: ah???.I was reading up on negative lookahead and it wasn???t making sense.
[18:30:23] havenwood: >> "stuff to be Processing and so on"[/.*(?=Processing)/]
[18:30:24] ruboto: havenwood # => "stuff to be " (https://eval.in/374462)
[18:30:30] baweaver_: havenwood: http://runjumpfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/you-chose-poorly.jpg
[18:30:38] havenwood: baweaver_: hehe
[18:31:34] baweaver_: I'm a blob of memes, puns, and ruby knowledge.
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[18:31:53] baweaver_: hm, it appears I forgot to logout at home
[18:32:00] baweaver_: fun, so no rails channel today
[18:32:18] havenwood: mwlang: partition(/Processing/).first
[18:32:25] miah: i ssh to a node on the internets and run irc in tmux. no 'logging out at home' required =)
[18:32:27] mwlang: havenwood: this mostly works: https://gist.github.com/mwlang/a72550bea798482e5eab#file-log_scan-rb-L87
[18:32:37] jhass: baweaver_: just ghost yourself?
[18:32:48] mwlang: but when the flow is something other than going from Processing to Processing (say Exception error), the flow breaks).
[18:32:55] baweaver_: jhass: Lazy / forget to do it
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[18:33:04] havenwood: mwlang: positive and negative lookaheads and lookbehinds can be handy
[18:33:21] havenwood: mwlang: just a matter of keeping track of which is which ;)
[18:33:24] jhass: baweaver_: /ns ghost baweaver hunter2
[18:33:34] mwlang: so the new strategy is to just consume until I hit ???Processing???.
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[18:34:21] baweaver_: jhass: The fact that I understand where hunter2 came from...
[18:34:27] baweaver: has joined #ruby
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[18:35:03] baweaver_: Also comcast is being a pain so fair warning
[18:35:23] baweaver_: you might see a lot of comcast users flickering on channel today.
[18:36:09] havenwood: mwlang: Dunno, maybe a case for StringScanner?: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib/libdoc/strscan/rdoc/StringScanner.html
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[18:37:18] Master44: to_a means to array right?
[18:37:34] phale: master44: yes
[18:37:46] mwlang: havenwood: that???s a new one to me. Let me experiment a bit I haven???t used lookarounds before (other than stealing other people???s ideas), so this is a learning exercise for me.
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[18:38:51] adaedra: <baweaver_> Also comcast is being a pain so fair warning
[18:39:03] adaedra: according to the internet, isn't that /always/ true
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[18:39:12] baweaver_: Moreso than usual
[18:39:19] jhass: baweaver_: btw you should also be able to identify regardless of your current nick, just be explicit: /ns identify baweaver hunter2
[18:39:55] baweaver_: touchy thing
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[18:40:20] jhass: ACTION goes back to #freenode
[18:40:27] phale: jhass: Hey, let's not go off-topic.
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[18:41:10] baweaver_: I'll just kick the thing when I get back home.
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[18:42:38] phale: Nothing against you, just enforcing the rules.
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[18:50:31] mwlang: this regex almost does it, except it gets everything up to the last Processing line in the file: %r{.*(?=Processing)?Processing\s([\w|#]+)\s\(for\s([\d|\.]+)[^\)]+\)\s\[(\w+)\]\n}
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[18:51:21] jhass: mwlang: read up on greedy vs non-greedy
[18:51:23] mwlang: so I reckon what I need is ???less greedy??? and match on first occurrance.
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[18:51:38] mwlang: jhass: ok, that confirms I???m on the right track...
[18:51:43] jhass: >> "fooabara"[/.*a/]
[18:51:44] ruboto: jhass # => "fooabara" (https://eval.in/374469)
[18:51:49] jhass: >> "fooabara"[/.*?a/]
[18:51:50] ruboto: jhass # => "fooa" (https://eval.in/374470)
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[19:01:58] aaeron: hi. I have a hash like this - myHash = { :first => { :color => [???red???]}, :second => {:color => [???blue???]}}
[19:02:11] aaeron: I want to call myHash and get the value using
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[19:02:36] aaeron: myHash[myValue] #myValue = first
[19:02:43] aaeron: and not use myHash[:first]
[19:02:46] aaeron: Is there a way to do this?
[19:02:50] jhass: >> my_hash = {first: {color: %w(red)}, second: {color: %w(blue)}; my_hash[:second][:color]
[19:02:51] ruboto: jhass # => /tmp/execpad-67bcd44fe2b0/source-67bcd44fe2b0:2: syntax error, unexpected ';', expecting '}' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374476)
[19:02:59] jhass: >> my_hash = {first: {color: %w(red)}, second: {color: %w(blue)}}; my_hash[:second][:color]
[19:03:00] ruboto: jhass # => ["blue"] (https://eval.in/374477)
[19:03:05] jhass: >> my_hash = {first: {color: %w(red)}, second: {color: %w(blue)}}; my_hash[:second][:color].first
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[19:03:06] ruboto: jhass # => "blue" (https://eval.in/374478)
[19:03:42] yxhuvvd: aaeron: my_hash[my_hash.keys.first]
[19:03:42] jhass: >> my_hash = {first: {color: %w(red)}, second: {color: %w(blue)}}; my_value = :first; my_hash[my_value][:color].first
[19:03:43] ruboto: jhass # => "red" (https://eval.in/374479)
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[19:04:09] jhass: if that doesn't help
[19:04:12] ruboto: Please show your real code to illustrate your problem. Using fake code often hides it or won't bring up the best possible solution.
[19:04:40] aaeron: This is the real code
[19:04:43] aaeron: Just different values
[19:05:00] jhass: so question answered then?
[19:05:06] mwlang: Is there a better way to say ???\r?\n??? for EOL? ???$??? doesn???t seem to work.
[19:05:19] mwlang: sometimes I???ll have a file with \r\n and other times I???ll have \n only.
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[19:05:31] aaeron: jhass - > checking
[19:05:52] jhass: yeah, $ matches \n only (and doesn't consume it) iirc
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[19:06:15] jhass: /\r?\n/ is common, not off the track there
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[19:07:39] aaeron: I have a limitation of having the key as a variable
[19:07:50] aaeron: my_hash[my_value][:color].first
[19:07:51] jhass: so does my last example
[19:07:55] aaeron: Cannot have .first
[19:07:56] aaeron: in the end
[19:08:17] jhass: that just gets the first item of your array
[19:08:37] jhass: >> my_hash = {first: {color: %w(red)}, second: {color: %w(blue)}}; my_value = :first; item_number = 0; my_hash[my_value][:color][item_number]
[19:08:38] ruboto: jhass # => "red" (https://eval.in/374480)
[19:08:39] jfarmer: aaeron I missed your question/code ??? what is it?
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[19:09:17] mwlang: jhass: havenwood: thanks for the steering. Got it all working nicely now.
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[19:09:28] aaeron: my_value = :first
[19:09:32] aaeron: my_value = first
[19:09:41] aaeron: I think there is a difference in this
[19:10:01] jhass: aaeron: yes, the later assigns my_value the value of the variable or method first
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[19:10:41] jfarmer: aaeron :first is a Symbol literal ??? a Symbol is a data type in Ruby like a String, Integer, Array, Hash, etc.
[19:10:58] aaeron: The second is a variable assignment
[19:10:59] jfarmer: so there's as much difference between those two lines as there is between
[19:11:07] jfarmer: my_value = "first"
[19:11:09] jfarmer: my_value = first
[19:11:22] aaeron: my question is : I have a hash
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[19:11:35] aaeron: myHash = { :first => { :color => [
[19:12:04] aaeron: myHash = { :first => { :color => [???red???, ???green???]}, :second => {:color => [???blue???]}}
[19:12:09] aaeron: I want to call myHash using
[19:12:18] aaeron: variable = ???first"
[19:12:20] havenwood: mwlang: Commented on your gist with the requisite Regexp-free version: https://gist.github.com/mwlang/a72550bea798482e5eab
[19:12:35] aaeron: myHash[variable][:color]
[19:12:39] jfarmer: aaeron Symbols and Strings are different
[19:12:43] jfarmer: :first != "first"
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[19:12:50] aaeron: I got that poiny
[19:13:26] finisherr: can open-uri return the response object so i can query for the retern code?
[19:13:31] finisherr: s/retern/return
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[19:13:37] jfarmer: >> myHash = {:first => [1, 2, 3]}; variable = :first; myHash[:first]
[19:13:38] ruboto: jfarmer # => [1, 2, 3] (https://eval.in/374483)
[19:13:45] jhass: aaeron: why do you have a string?
[19:13:50] jfarmer: >> myHash = {:first => [1, 2, 3]}; variable = :first; myHash[variable]
[19:13:51] ruboto: jfarmer # => [1, 2, 3] (https://eval.in/374484)
[19:13:53] jhass: and a symbol as key?
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[19:14:11] mwlang: havenwood: interesting???but does that handle Exception Reporting and random log emissions mixed in with all the Processing lines?
[19:14:13] aaeron: Oh. I can have a string as the key
[19:14:19] aaeron: I want to have only one
[19:14:39] havenwood: mwlang: All the varieties in your example at least.
[19:15:05] havenwood: mwlang: It ignores beyond the Parameters line.
[19:15:07] mwlang: havenwood: ah. Yeah, it were that simple, I???d already be done. :-)
[19:15:23] jfarmer: aaeron Do you have a self-contained example of what you're trying to do and why it isn't working?
[19:15:38] aaeron: got the solution
[19:15:39] aaeron: Thanks a lot
[19:15:48] aaeron: colos = {'first' => {'color' => ['red']}}
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[19:15:54] mwlang: havenwood: I use your approach more often than not.
[19:16:03] aaeron: test = 'first'
[19:16:03] aaeron: test_a = 'color'
[19:16:04] aaeron: puts ": #{test_method[test][test_a]}"
[19:16:12] aaeron: thanks a lot for the explanation
[19:16:18] havenwood: mwlang: Always nice to compare the regexp and non-regexp solutions.
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[19:16:20] mwlang: easier to read and debug???.reg-exps take some patience to grok
[19:16:23] aaeron: Because of u guys I am learning Ruby quicker
[19:16:32] aaeron: thanks a lot jhass and jfarmer
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[19:18:11] mwlang: havenwood: I added more of the log data. and cleaned up the gist a bit.
[19:18:14] mwlang: https://gist.github.com/mwlang/a72550bea798482e5eab
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[19:20:24] havenwood: mwlang: Updated code to work.
[19:21:28] havenwood: mwlang: Sec and I'll make it nicer.
[19:21:41] mwlang: havenwood: verb: verb.delete('[]'), <== I like this. Clean way of throwing away garbage.
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[19:24:25] havenwood: mwlang: aye
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[19:25:08] havenwood: mwlang: Oops, I was about to introduce a Regexp! :O Abort
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[19:31:07] ljarvis: yorickpeterse: yo stahp with python style embedded docs :(
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[19:33:36] Verrelia: havenwood, Noticed you were in #elixir-lang. You also learning it?..
[19:33:50] ytti: super excited about elixir and rust
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[19:33:55] havenwood: Verrelia: Yup, really enjoying Elixir.
[19:34:20] ytti: too bad won't have much time for programming in near future
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[19:37:01] Verrelia: What is it that you guys found interesting about Elixir?
[19:37:07] diegoviola: just went to some work at some shop and it looks like they expect me to use windows, I asked if I can use Linux myself and they said "You'll have to use a VM"
[19:37:37] diegoviola: they're even using PHP it seems
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[19:37:45] surrounder: what's wrong with a vm ?
[19:37:53] diegoviola: I wonder if it could be worse
[19:38:26] diegoviola: surrounder: well, it took me 20 minutes to get Arch up and running in a vm
[19:38:38] surrounder: so get a decent OS
[19:38:58] miah: just fullscreen your vm and live in it =)
[19:38:58] surrounder: still, don't understand what's wrong with having your *nix tools in a vm if the hardware's up to it
[19:39:00] diegoviola: surrounder: Arch is great, I'm not complaining about the 20 minutes
[19:39:16] surrounder: you just did
[19:39:24] diegoviola: no, I didn't
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[19:39:35] diegoviola: I'm complaining about the fact they won't let me install it on bare metal
[19:39:42] diegoviola: and Windows is horrible as a host OS
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[19:40:17] surrounder: don't notice a difference really
[19:41:03] diegoviola: I could actually barely notice the difference when I full screen Arch
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[19:42:25] dfockler: does the GServer class still exist in ruby 2.1
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[19:43:15] ljarvis: dfockler: no
[19:43:15] yxhuvvd: diego: so why are you working at such a place?
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[19:43:32] havenwood: 21>> require 'gserver'
[19:43:33] ruboto: havenwood # => true (https://eval.in/374506)
[19:43:42] ljarvis: dfockler: ugh, it's 2.2 it's gone
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[19:43:51] ljarvis: >> require 'gserver'
[19:43:52] ruboto: ljarvis # => cannot load such file -- gserver (LoadError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374507)
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[19:44:05] dfockler: did they replace it, or just remove it?
[19:44:11] ljarvis: it's a rubygem
[19:44:19] dfockler: ahh ok, makes sense
[19:44:20] ljarvis: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/5480
[19:46:12] dfockler: the idea is nice, I guess the implementation was not
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[20:08:03] xaocon: I'm very new to ruby and just made a gem. I am looking for any advice on it, from suggestions about ruby idioms to poor code. https://github.com/xaocon/carbonblack
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[20:09:11] jhass: xaocon: usage examples in the readme make a great gem for starters ;)
[20:09:24] miah: xaocon: check out 'rubocop'
[20:09:37] miah: ?rubocop
[20:09:37] ruboto: I don't know anything about rubocop
[20:09:46] jfarmer: Saddems: https://github.com/bbatsov/rubocop
[20:09:59] ddfreyne: Rubocop is <3
[20:10:04] jhass: xaocon: require outside and inside a class makes no difference, just put all at the top
[20:10:09] jhass: I disagree
[20:10:15] miah: ?fact add rubocop https://github.com/bbatsov/rubocop
[20:10:15] ruboto: add, I don't know anything about fact
[20:10:25] miah: why you no love me
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[20:10:38] miah: !fact add rubocop https://github.com/bbatsov/rubocop
[20:10:38] jhass: xaocon: ruby community standard is 2 spaces for indentation
[20:10:41] jfarmer: xaocon Ruby code should always be indented 2 spaces per indentation level. That's 2 literal space characters, not 1 tab character set to 2 spaces, not 4 spaces, not anything but 2 literal space characters.
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[20:10:47] ddfreyne: I generally don't use Rubocop as-is (I always have a few tweaks), but it's really good to have a consistent code style.
[20:10:55] jfarmer: jhass Jinx?
[20:11:09] jhass: what's that?
[20:11:22] miah: xaocon: also https://github.com/bbatsov/ruby-style-guide/
[20:11:27] jhass: xaocon: no need for empty parens () anywhere
[20:11:30] jfarmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinx_(children%27s_game)
[20:11:41] miah: rubocop will automate the checks against the ruby style guide
[20:11:51] ddfreyne: jhass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinx_(children%27s_game)
[20:12:14] jhass: xaocon: sensor.rb should define class Carbonblack::Sensor
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[20:13:26] jhass: not sure what the example yaml file is for...
[20:13:34] jfarmer: ddfreyne Junx
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[20:14:34] jhass: xaocon: some of your method names feel backwards, I'd prefer read_sensor over sensor_read for example
[20:15:00] jhass: xaocon: Prefer "string #{interpolation}" over "string" + concatenation
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[20:15:55] jhass: xaocon: don't mix {ruby_19: hash_style} with {:hash => rockets}
[20:16:10] ljarvis: to_id should probably be a private method since it's merely a helper and not part of the api
[20:16:26] xaocon: wow! a lot of great information. thanks for all the advice. while i'm looking for advice, is bundler the best way to manage the gem?
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[20:17:00] ruboto: I don't know anything about better
[20:17:06] ruboto: "Best" and "better" are subjective. Try to use a different term.
[20:17:16] g0rx: i need a programmer :)
[20:17:21] g0rx: i pay via btc
[20:17:21] jhass: it's certainly not a wrong way ;)
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[20:17:41] havenwood: g0rx: What do you need programmed? How does it relate to Ruby?
[20:18:16] g0rx: some thing for personal
[20:18:34] jfarmer: xaocon Sidestepping the semantics of "best," it's the most conventional way and you'd need a good reason to use something else.
[20:18:47] jhass: g0rx: I wonder how many more days until you'll realize that what you do won't attract nobody, at least nobody sane...
[20:18:56] jhass: er, *anybody
[20:19:58] jhass: I don't know, I seem to see plain rubygems and something like jewlery etc quite often too
[20:20:07] xaocon: jhass: certainly best is almost always subjective. could you give me more detail on what is wrong with the hash styles?
[20:20:44] jhass: xaocon: don't do {:a => b, c: d}, either do {a: b, c: d} or {:a => b, :c => d}
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[20:21:41] jhass: if one of your keys requires the =>, use them for all of them, else I'd suggest the Ruby 1.9 style, since it's future proof if the API you're using switches to keyword arguments
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[20:22:22] jfarmer: xaocon The general principles behind coding style is:
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[20:22:40] xaocon: jhass: ahh on the HTTParty request. I think that was mostly copypasta. is 1.9 the rockets? I prefer {a: b} but if that won't work all the time I'll probably switch.
[20:22:46] jfarmer: 1. Whatever style you pick, use it consistently.
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[20:22:56] jfarmer: 2. Where the community broadly agrees on a standard, use that.
[20:23:04] jhass: xaocon: no the colons, the rockets is the old style that works for any kind of key not just symbols
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[20:23:29] jfarmer: 3. Where the community is divided, pick one style and stick with it.
[20:23:44] jhass: that's just 1 rephrased :P
[20:24:05] jhass: don't mind me...
[20:24:07] duderonomy: if an array of words can be returned with this: words.slice(0..-1) why does the opposite not work as expected? (-1..0) ? What is this newb missing?
[20:24:12] jfarmer: 3. Where the community is divided evenly among a handful of styles, pick one (and don't forget 1)
[20:24:13] apeiros: good rules IMO :)
[20:24:17] duderonomy: expecting reverse array
[20:24:19] jfarmer: don't just pick a random style is my point
[20:24:29] jfarmer: an idiosyncratic style I mean
[20:24:47] duderonomy: I need to learn math too?
[20:25:20] jfarmer: duderonomy What do you expect it to do?
[20:25:29] jfarmer: I honestly don't have a sense of what I'd "expect."
[20:25:31] duderonomy: expecting reverse array
[20:25:42] centrx: Use .reverse
[20:25:55] duderonomy: hey dudedudeman! *my* brother from another mother
[20:26:08] dudedudeman: 'ell yeah! my homedoggy
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[20:26:15] jhass: ACTION sense #ruby-dudes forming
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[20:26:42] dudedudeman: ACTION sniffs air, likes what he smells
[20:26:42] Sweeper: ACTION fistbump
[20:27:03] dfockler: ACTION brofist
[20:27:09] duderonomy: I know reverse is good. Just want to know why it does not work as expected (0..-1) does right by me
[20:27:12] dudedudeman: ACTION bumps all the fists
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[20:27:45] jhass: >> (-1..0).to_a # duderonomy
[20:27:46] ruboto: jhass # => [-1, 0] (https://eval.in/374514)
[20:28:09] jhass: mh, no, nvm me :D
[20:28:15] jhass: it's just the way it is I guess
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[20:30:08] duderonomy: Yeah, I was ready for the great epiphany moment just now. bumps_fist :)
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[20:31:33] jfarmer: I can understand why Array#slice works this was from an implementation perspective, but it does break the "generality" of the interface.
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[20:32:12] jfarmer: Like..you'd kind of expect array.slice([i1, i2, i3, ..., iN]) to return a new array populated with the values at indices i1, 12, ..., iN
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[20:33:13] apeiros: jfarmer: that's what values_at exists for
[20:33:20] jfarmer: apeiros I get that.
[20:33:34] jfarmer: I'm saying I understand duderonomy's expectations.
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[20:33:42] jfarmer: The docs kind of imply it, at least in the case of Ranges
[20:33:54] jhass: well, (0..-1).to_a == []
[20:33:58] duderonomy: which is way helpful to helping me sleep at night
[20:33:58] apeiros: jfarmer: I don't think so, no
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[20:34:33] apeiros: the docs are imo quite clear on #[] accepting either offset,length or offset..offset. and negative offsets being treated as from the end
[20:34:44] jfarmer: When given a range, the docs say that Array#slice "returns a subarray specified by range of indices."
[20:35:03] jfarmer: (-1..0) is a "range of indices"
[20:35:21] apeiros: hm, I guess the wording changed
[20:35:33] apeiros: at least I remember it differently
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[20:35:41] jfarmer: And, as jhass points out, (-1..0) is NOT empty whereas (0..-1) IS
[20:36:24] apeiros: yeah, "a subarray specified by range of indices??? can be misunderstood
[20:37:10] jfarmer: So, that's kind of strange ??? Array#slice will return a non-empty array for certain empty ranges and will return an empty array for certain non-empty ranges.
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[20:38:11] apeiros: I think understanding range argument simply as offset..offset helps understanding it
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[20:38:28] apeiros: -1..0 would be "from end to start", and slice does not support reverse indexing
[20:38:45] apeiros: (even though it'd IMO make sense - could return a reversed slice)
[20:38:46] jfarmer: Right and I get why that's the case.
[20:39:00] jfarmer: But to "get it" you have to understand something about what makes arrays special as a data type
[20:39:11] jfarmer: (i.e., contiguous addressing)
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[20:39:27] finisherr: What do I pass to Net::HTTP::Get.new to get a request object?
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[20:39:49] apeiros: jfarmer: um, that's kind of the defining aspect of arrays
[20:39:49] jfarmer: so getting a monotonically increasing slice is easy peasy ??? O(1) in fact ??? while getting a monotonically decreasing slice or a slice in a non-contiguous order is O(n)
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[20:39:59] jfarmer: apeiros A beginner doesn't see that, though.
[20:40:41] apeiros: sure. but there's lots of such things in a higher level language.
[20:40:44] ljarvis: finisherr: see the example, a URI instance: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/net/http/rdoc/Net/HTTP.html#class-Net::HTTP-label-How+to+use+Net-3A-3AHTTP
[20:40:45] jfarmer: Just saying I can see why the slice is justified in working the way it does and can also see why a beginner is more likely to see that behavior as "surprising"
[20:40:54] jfarmer: That's all I'm saying.
[20:41:01] jfarmer: That I can empathize with both sides. :P
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[20:42:16] jfarmer: And I agree that high-level languages are filled with those kinds of hiccups (though some more than others)
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[20:42:44] jfarmer: Ruby's generally pretty good on that front, at least among OOP languages.
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[20:42:45] finisherr: ljarvis: Ahh, okay, the uri object. The docs say send some kind of method as the first param
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[20:43:09] jhass: finisherr: which docs? new(path, initheader = nil)
[20:43:28] finisherr: I was lookin at: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/net/http/rdoc/Net/HTTP/Get.html
[20:43:59] ljarvis: finisherr: those are constants
[20:44:00] jhass: finisherr: yeah, no methods documented there, click Parent
[20:44:07] finisherr: Which sent me here: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/net/http/rdoc/Net/HTTPGenericRequest.html
[20:44:13] finisherr: according to the comment at the top
[20:44:39] ljarvis: The "See Net::HTTP for usage examples" was quite telling, too :)
[20:44:41] finisherr: Ahh, parent
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[20:44:57] finisherr: I???m on 1.9.3 so i was lookin at those docs which are slightly different
[20:45:02] finisherr: Thanks for the help though
[20:45:04] waxjar: if all you need to do is send a GET request, i highly recommend using open-uri. it's so easy!
[20:45:17] finisherr: waxjar: I???m looking to get the response obj
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[20:45:20] finisherr: so i can query for the return code
[20:45:27] finisherr: does open-uri have support for that kinda thing?
[20:45:35] finisherr: cause it IS simpler
[20:45:36] ljarvis: open-uri can do that too, but I'd stick with net/http
[20:45:51] jhass: finisherr: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.2/libdoc/net/http/rdoc/Net/HTTP.html#method-c-get
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[20:46:11] jhass: eh, wrong one
[20:46:13] waxjar: why ljarvis?
[20:46:13] ljarvis: that'll return the string response
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[20:46:17] jhass: get_response a bit further down
[20:47:06] jfarmer: finisherr Honestly, Net::HTTP is _wayyyyy_ more low-level than most people want or need (which is why you're finding this process awkward)
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[20:47:19] ljarvis: no it's not
[20:47:25] jhass: jfarmer: saw my link?
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[20:47:38] jhass: hardly harder than open-uri
[20:47:40] ljarvis: waxjar: just for flexibility, really
[20:47:46] jhass: just need an additional URI()
[20:48:00] waxjar: ljarvis: fair enough
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[20:48:05] ljarvis: it's certainly no harder than open-uri, and it's most definitely not "way more low level"
[20:48:29] jfarmer: finisherr I would consider looking at something higher-level like faraday (https://github.com/lostisland/faraday) or HTTParty (https://github.com/jnunemaker/httparty)
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[20:48:39] jfarmer: internet arguments!
[20:48:53] finisherr: Thanks for the tips folks
[20:49:11] jfarmer: I just mean it operates at a lower level of abstraction than most people who want to make HTTP requests are operating at.
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[20:49:34] jfarmer: sorry for emphasizing the "way", but I do think that's why people stumble left and right over trying to use Net::HTTP
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[20:50:18] jfarmer: But also not looking to start a debate.
[20:50:29] jhass: Net::HTTP.get(URI("http://google.com"))
[20:50:42] jhass: same as open("http://google.com", &:read)
[20:51:12] waxjar: net/http is easy enough imo, provided you don't need to set headers/cookies/etc. in this case a higher level http library seems overkill
[20:51:15] jhass: Net::HTTP.get_response(URI("http://google.com")) #=> <Net::Http::Response ...>
[20:51:57] ljarvis: in other nets, this is basically the library I wish was Net::HTTP https://github.com/httprb/http.rb
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[20:52:01] ljarvis: s/nets/news/
[20:52:54] jhass: that it doesn't have an option to follow redirects is my biggest issue with net/http
[20:53:25] ljarvis: yeah, building a recursive method for that always got annoying
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[20:56:09] ljarvis: also, better timeouts
[20:56:11] apofis: has joined #ruby
[20:56:17] ljarvis: because Timeout is not the way to do request timeouts
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[20:57:06] xaocon: one more thing, as I'm developing i don't want to build the gem every time i change the code. I tried running test code with
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[20:57:18] jfarmer: ljarvis That's nice
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[20:57:43] xaocon: "ruby -Ilib/carbonblack -rlib/carbonblack test.rb" but it didn't work
[20:58:05] ljarvis: ruby -Ilib -rcarbonblack test.rb
[20:58:56] ljarvis: also, thank you for running examples properly and not like a mad man
[20:59:04] xaocon: ljarvis: ahh wonderful. thanks again.
[21:00:07] jhass: ljarvis: s/request //
[21:00:29] ljarvis: jhass: amen
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[21:04:21] ljarvis: I seriously spend way too long screwing around with different programming languages
[21:04:33] jhass: looked at crystal yet? :P
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[21:04:56] finisherr: Can you get the response header from an HTTP resopnse?
[21:05:00] ljarvis: yeah I did, I took a bit of notice during the stage of rebuilding into self-hosting
[21:05:09] Verrelia: <finisherr> Can you get the response header from an HTTP resopnse?
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[21:05:29] Verrelia: You always get that.
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[21:05:45] jhass: ljarvis: currently concurrency/io model is revamped to something more Go-like, Coroutine/channel based
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[21:05:56] ljarvis: jhass: oo sounds like something i'd like
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[21:06:33] jhass: currently it's single thread but plan is to eventually to automatically distribute them to a thread pool
[21:06:36] ljarvis: Go's concurrency model is imo the best of its kind
[21:07:06] finisherr: Verrelia: I guess how would i get something like the Content-Type field
[21:07:33] finisherr: oh, nevermind
[21:07:40] finisherr: there are methods for access
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[21:11:42] ljarvis: jhass: was debot cinch-inspired? :)
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[21:12:44] jhass: ljarvis: look at the branches ;)
[21:13:05] jhass: it's version 3 ;D
[21:13:09] ljarvis: looks good
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[21:13:36] jhass: underlying stuff is still way too incomplete, like the whole user tracking is a complete mess
[21:13:47] jhass: but I loose interest once things start working for my usecases :/
[21:14:04] ljarvis: I do that a lot
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[21:33:18] duderonomy: thanks to you all for that excellent discussion about the slice in ruby
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[21:42:56] Ox0dea: Is there some way to "un-lambda" a Proc in-place without resorting to Fiddle?
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[21:44:12] jhass: just pass .arity-n nils?
[21:45:17] jhass: >> l = -> a, b, c { p [a, b, c] }; args = [1]; args.concat Array.new(l.arity-args.size); l.call(*args)
[21:45:18] ruboto: jhass # => [1, nil, nil] ...check link for more (https://eval.in/374521)
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[21:45:59] jhass: just stuff that into def i_am_unsure_how_to_call_you(l, *args) and be done
[21:46:27] Ox0dea: jhass: Procs and lambdas also differ in their return semantics.
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[21:47:28] jhass: eh, and the caller most likely wrote the code with that in mind
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[21:57:25] apeiros: c_nt: hi girl
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[21:59:00] c_nt: do you know scratch programming apeiros?
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[21:59:38] apeiros: I don't know the term "scratch programming", no
[21:59:58] c_nt: have you programmed in scratch?
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[22:00:10] c_nt: it's a language for kids that was made by Lego people
[22:00:11] apeiros: is scratch a programming language?
[22:00:22] apeiros: I see, no, I haven't programmed in scratch
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[22:01:04] c_nt: they have a code step sequencer where it visualizes what line of code the program is currently on in real time
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[22:01:14] c_nt: I was wondering if there is something like that for ruby
[22:01:25] dudedudeman: https://scratch.mit.edu/
[22:01:52] apeiros: c_nt: see byebug. I think it has a stepper.
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[22:02:09] apeiros: or pry-byebug
[22:02:57] c_nt: thank you
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[22:10:07] belak: Is there a better way of doing this? file_url = URI.parse("#{params['xdm_e']}/api/1.0/repositories/#{params['owner']}/#{params['repo']}/src/#{params['cset']}/#{params['path']}")
[22:11:20] apeiros: ?better belak
[22:11:20] ruboto: belak, I don't know anything about better
[22:11:32] apeiros: oh dear. I don't know messages shouldn't be targeted :-S
[22:11:35] apeiros: ?best belak
[22:11:35] ruboto: belak, "Best" and "better" are subjective. Try to use a different term.
[22:11:50] belak: I'd say "less ugly" but that's also subjective.
[22:12:12] apeiros: at least it tells the area in which you want the improvement
[22:12:19] apeiros: so it's already more context than a plain "better" :)
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[22:13:02] apeiros: if the keys were symbols you could use String#%
[22:13:11] apeiros: other than that??? not much I can think of
[22:13:20] belak: Is there a best-practices way of doing string formatting for this case?
[22:13:26] apeiros: you can trade more lines beforehand to have this line shorter
[22:13:56] belak: I wanted to do % params, but that doesn't appear to work
[22:14:17] apeiros: "doesn't work" is not something we can act upon
[22:14:32] apeiros: as said, you need symbol keys
[22:14:57] ddarkpassenger: belak, You could try something like rest-client: https://github.com/rest-client/rest-client
[22:15:15] ddarkpassenger: e.g. RestClient.get 'http://example.com/resource', {:params => {:id => 50, 'foo' => 'bar'}}
[22:15:33] apeiros: example of trading lines: `template = "%s/api/1.0/repositories/%s/???"; uri = template % params.values_at('xdm_e', ???); file_url = URI.parse(uri)`
[22:15:51] belak: Right now I'm just using the plain HTTPClient. I wasn't sure if there was a better library to use.
[22:15:59] apeiros: c_nt: say, what does your nickname mean?
[22:16:10] belak: apeiros: what is that magical values_at?
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[22:16:18] apeiros: belak: Hash#values_at
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[22:16:36] apeiros: gets values at multiple keys at once
[22:16:53] ddarkpassenger: You should be able to achieve the same thing using URI assignment methods (host=, path=, etc)
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[22:18:20] apeiros: ddarkpassenger: won't `RestClient.get 'http://example.com/resource', {:params => {:id => 50, 'foo' => 'bar'}} ` just generate a url with a query part?
[22:19:10] apeiros: from the README it seems like
[22:19:18] ruby-lang783: I am a newbe at RubyGems: I am trying to backward re-write a Gem at my work. I am getting confused around all the "SPEC" files. It has a gemname.gemspec AND a Gemfile AND a ~/spec/gemname_spec.rb <-- These files seem redundant (also I read that Gemfile was from bundler but I had to install bunder on the server ... so
[22:20:02] ruby-lang783: Any help would be appreciated
[22:20:28] ddarkpassenger: apeiros: Yep, but maybe he could use the same concept to define his URI.path in a more elegant way, with something like URI, something like this: https://github.com/hannesg/uri_template
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[22:21:22] ruby-lang783: anyone an expert at creating RubyGems?
[22:22:11] apeiros: ruby-lang783: your confusion is understandable
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[22:22:20] apeiros: ruby-lang783: to build a gem, all you need is the .gemspec
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[22:22:44] apeiros: `gem build your.gemspec` will generate the your-<version>.gem file
[22:23:16] apeiros: the Gemfile is used to deal with dependencies in arbitrary projects, not just gems. some of what it can do can also be handled by the .gemspec file
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[22:23:43] ruby-lang783: Ok, it looks like all dependencies are in the .gemspec
[22:24:26] ruby-lang783: so I removed everything in the Gemfile and replaced it with source and gemspec
[22:25:08] apeiros: you can find a description of the .gemspec format here: http://guides.rubygems.org/specification-reference/
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[22:25:27] ruby-lang783: wo why a full spec directory with a <gemname>_spec.rb ??? What could this do?
[22:25:50] apeiros: those specs are tests
[22:25:59] apeiros: specifications for how your gem works
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[22:26:17] apeiros: google for rspec
[22:26:26] ruby-lang783: rspec ... ok thanks
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[22:27:32] ruby-lang783: I appreciate the help apeiros. If I need more I will come back ... and when I get a better handle on this I may come back to help others ... thanks again
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[22:28:23] apeiros: ruby-lang783: you're welcome
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[22:30:00] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[22:39:34] dfockler: yard is pretty nice for docs
[22:39:42] dfockler: I'm trying it out now
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[22:43:15] qsuscs: is why???s poignant guide still the way to get started with ruby?
[22:43:34] dfockler: if you like foxes and comics
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[22:43:55] qsuscs: better than some dry lecture.
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[22:44:07] dfockler: some people love dry lectures
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[22:45:35] qsuscs: so, it isn???t particularly outdated? like, teaching me stuff that will break with the latest ruby, or not mentiong something that i really should know?
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[22:46:05] dfockler: I'm sure there are a few things, but it's more conceptual
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[22:47:00] qsuscs: hm, around 3.50??? to print it ??? or are there nice epub/mobipocket versions?
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[22:48:09] qsuscs: oh, someone converted it to markdown. i can probably beat that to mobipocket with pandoc or so
[22:48:35] dfockler: https://github.com/sorah/poignant-guide-epub
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[22:48:46] dfockler: here's an epub, probably ok quality
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[22:49:08] jfarmer: qsuscs It's outdated
[22:49:31] havenwood: qsuscs: And the soundtrack to the book: http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/soundtrack/
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[22:50:14] qsuscs: jfarmer: what would you recommend instead? preferably on dead rainforest, or at least easily printable
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[22:51:34] havenwood: If I could just get my act together and draw some wizards...
[22:51:35] jfarmer: qsuscs Is this for you?
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[22:52:15] qsuscs: jfarmer: yes
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[22:52:32] jfarmer: What's your background, programming-wise?
[22:53:20] qsuscs: unix shell hackery, haskell, object pascal (not deliberately. school.)
[22:53:33] qsuscs: though i???m far from being a pro at all of those
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[22:54:52] jfarmer: Is there some language you would say you're comfortable with?
[22:55:01] jfarmer: Or are you trying to learn something in-depth for the first time?
[22:55:28] qsuscs: i???ve been _trying_ to learn something in-depth many times ;)
[22:55:40] qsuscs: and i???m comfortable with german and english :>
[22:56:35] g0rx: i need a programmer :)
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[22:57:35] dfockler: g0rx: sorry this channel is about gemstones and jewelry
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[22:58:22] dfockler: haha just kidding
[22:58:28] nofxx: g0rx, only hard work miners and traders
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[23:00:17] jfarmer: qsuscs I recommend https://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
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[23:00:30] jfarmer: And eventually http://www.poodr.com/
[23:00:35] g0rx: jfarmer i recommend barbie.com
[23:00:48] jfarmer: qsuscs And http://www.amazon.com/Eloquent-Ruby-Addison-Wesley-Professional-Series/dp/0321584104
[23:00:55] jfarmer: g0rx Go away.
[23:01:04] g0rx: jfarmer why ?
[23:01:12] g0rx: don t be racist
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[23:01:43] qsuscs: jfarmer: hm, the first one sounds like made for people who have no programming experience whatsoever ??? i wouldn???t consider myself a real programmer, but i???m good at concepts (unless it???s monads or pointer arithmetic or such weird stuff)
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[23:03:22] jfarmer: qsuscs I don't know what "good at concepts" means, but if you're not proficient with some other language when Chris Pine's book is an excellent introduction.
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[23:03:48] jfarmer: How do you know if you're "good at concepts" if you haven't put that to the test by implementing them?
[23:04:07] jfarmer: in which case, there'd be some language you were proficient with (presumably)
[23:04:23] jfarmer: But it's an easy and very good read regardless ??? check it out.
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[23:04:34] qsuscs: jfarmer: because i did not listen in programming classes for two years, never did the exercices, yet scored 15 out of 15 points in the exam.
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[23:05:28] gambl0re: what does this line mean? if ('#switcher').is(':hidden')
[23:05:34] qsuscs: jfarmer: i mean, i won???t need somebody carefully explaining a for loop or the difference between int and char or that stuff, rather ???yeah this is how we do it in ruby???
[23:05:35] jfarmer: That sounds more like an indictment of the test then anything.
[23:06:00] jfarmer: qsuscs In the time you've spent here, you could've flipped through some of the freely-available chapters.
[23:06:07] jfarmer: you've spent here pushing back that is
[23:06:11] qsuscs: jfarmer: true. the teacher is weird and it???s not challenging ??? yet others scored three points
[23:06:13] jfarmer: Honestly, it's a very good book.
[23:06:21] qsuscs: okay, convinced, i???ll try it
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[23:07:05] jfarmer: That story also tells me you might be good at convincing yourself you understand things that you're only actually familiar with. :)
[23:07:26] jfarmer: which makes me want to recommend the book all the more
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[23:16:54] eddie_v8: i have already updated my rubygems and i keep getting Warning: You're using Rubygems 2.0.14 with Spring. Upgrade to at least Rubygems 2.1.0 and run `gem pristine --all` for better startup performance.
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[23:17:14] eddie_v8: any idea how to fix that
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[23:18:59] nofxx: eddie_v8, linux?
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[23:19:44] jhass: how did you install ruby?
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[23:20:52] mwlang: gambl0re: That looks like javascript and it???s checking to see if an element on the page is hidden (display: none, most likely) In this case, the element with ID=switcher
[23:21:05] jhass: eddie_v8: gem update --system should be good then
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[23:21:18] eddie_v8: jhass: i tried that
[23:21:20] eddie_v8: its updated
[23:21:31] jhass: did you do the suggestion?
[23:21:51] jhass: gem -v reports 2.4.something?
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[23:23:00] eddie_v8: jhass: i get Latest version currently installed. Aborting.
[23:23:29] jhass: you did run gem update --system with the same ruby & gemset activated as your rails app has?
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[23:23:56] eddie_v8: jhass: but its a new rails app
[23:24:15] eddie_v8: jhass: i get the warning when i run rails new project
[23:24:18] jhass: you start evading my questions...
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[23:25:29] eddie_v8: jhass: how do i know what gemset if i didnt create a rails app already
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[23:26:03] jhass: you check that rvm current is the same when you run bin/rails and gem update --system
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[23:26:31] jhass: do you prepend sudo to any commands behind the scenes?
[23:26:47] jhass: there we go, that's your mistake
[23:26:50] ruboto: General advise in system administration: do not and that means never use sudo or root to "fix" things. Only use it if you exactly know why it would work and why it wouldn't work under any circumstances as normal user. Or if you're told to do it.
[23:27:01] eddie_v8: need to run them with sudo
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[23:27:42] jhass: if you have a global RVM install it's rvmsudo, if you have (like any sane person) a per user RVM install you don't need sudo for anything
[23:28:14] eddie_v8: think i will need to uninstall everything
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[23:30:07] nofxx: eddie_v8, which distro? ruby that comes with it too outdated?
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[23:47:23] gkra: Can someone help me understand what I'm clearly missing here? https://gist.github.com/gkra/64e19568600c9782265d
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[23:50:30] jerski: im new to this channel
[23:50:32] gkra: I apparently can't brain gsub!
[23:50:50] jerski: would like to seek some help from ruby gurus here
[23:51:26] jerski: can someone help me write a short script?
[23:51:40] ruboto: Just ask your question, if anyone has, they will respond.
[23:52:05] jhass: !fact ed anyone Just ask your question, if anyone has or can, they will respond.
[23:52:06] ruboto: jhass, I stand corrected that anyone is Just ask your question, if anyone has or can, they will respond.
[23:52:32] shadoi: gkra: added a comment on your gist
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[23:53:10] jerski: honestly i'm new to ruby and i'm looking for someone who can write a script that displays all tty devices in linux.
[23:53:37] jhass: what did you try so far?
[23:54:39] jerski: ordered by increasing numbers, in 3 columns. the scripts should accept 3 arguments, -h: display help, -r: reverse order listing, and -csv comma separated values (same output, no spaces, separated by comma).
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[23:55:24] jerski: i've tried
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[23:56:12] gkra: shadoi: hah, i'm using gsub like an idiot....
[23:56:23] jhass: gkra: rely on the truthiness of stuff, match returns nil which is falsey, MatchData instances are truthy, no need for the ternary
[23:56:47] gkra: jhass: the ternary was me going into the weeds
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[23:57:01] gkra: instead of going "Oh hey maybe i should use sub instead of gsub"
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[23:58:07] jhass: jerski: show your attempt, try to ask something specific about what you're stuck with it ;)
[23:58:13] ruboto: https://gist.github.com - Multiple files, syntax highlighting, even automatically with matching filenames, can be edited
[23:59:00] jerski: i've only tried to write this
[23:59:03] jerski: f = File.open("test.txt") p f.isatty # => false p STDOUT.isatty # => true
[23:59:34] jerski: i'm having brain freeze