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#ruby - 12 July 2015

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[00:16:12] sarid: what is this and how?
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[00:17:42] apeiros: sarid: come again?
[00:17:50] sarid: one moment please
[00:18:00] havenwood: sarid: roger that
[00:18:50] apeiros: sarid: let me inform you that by now, precisely one moment has passed.
[00:19:11] sarid: moments aren't defined
[00:19:14] sarid: which is why they're used
[00:20:14] apeiros: somebody got a spare irony detector? sarid's in need of one.
[00:20:54] adaedra: require 'irony/detector'
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[00:21:42] Senjai: Good day ruby
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[00:21:53] havenwood: Senjai: g'day
[00:22:16] Senjai: Going to try and get some misc stuff done on the weekend -_-
[00:22:24] adaedra: Hello Senjai
[00:22:39] apeiros: sarid: anyway, the moment has indeed passed for me. I'll no longer wait. good night folks.
[00:22:46] pontiki: hi, Senjai
[00:22:56] apeiros: ACTION rides off into the night.
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[00:24:29] sarid: http://i.imgur.com/uKdVQBC.png
[00:24:34] sarid: i am impressed and confused
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[00:26:00] sarid: there is a ruby on my client
[00:26:13] havenwood: sarid: LimeChat.app was actually initially written in MacRuby before the Objective-C rewrite! Welcome to the #ruby channel. For non-Ruby topics visit us in #ruby-offtopic.
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[00:43:15] pontiki: havenwood is taking a turn as the welcome committee...
[00:43:27] havenwood: pontiki: Welcome!
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[02:14:50] hololeap: is there a shorthand for `obj.some_method { |o| o }`
[02:15:08] Senjai: hololeap: No, not if you want to do nothing
[02:15:20] Senjai: hololeap: If you want to call a method on o, that's different
[02:15:39] Senjai: obj.some_method(&:thing) == obj.some_method { |o| o.thing }
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[02:16:08] hololeap: right, but there's no method that just returns the object itself :/
[02:17:07] Senjai: Why would there be
[02:17:17] Senjai: Why call a block if you wanted to do that
[02:17:21] Radar: hololeap: in active_support there is tap
[02:17:55] Senjai: Aye, that's fair, but I still wouldn't pass in a block for that scenario
[02:18:29] Senjai: And doing obj.some_method(&:tap) is, in my mind a hack that shouldn't be done, or shouldn't have to be
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[02:19:28] hololeap: this is where i'm getting the idea from: http://stackoverflow.com/a/8922049/983883
[02:19:51] hololeap: there's `.group_by { |e| e}` and `.chunk { |e| e}`
[02:20:04] hololeap: it got me thinking that there's probably a better way to write that
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[02:21:29] Senjai: hololeap: What are you trying to solve
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[02:22:47] hololeap: i'm not, i was just seeing if anyone knew a shorthand for that pattern
[02:23:34] Senjai: That's kind of a weird case, I would do it by longhand (not with tap, even if tap is available) as that is the easiest way to convert an array to that type of hash
[02:23:36] Senjai: of a hash*
[02:23:50] Senjai: if it was code -i- was designing, I would have an explicit method for that conversion.
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[02:28:24] hololeap: heh, class Object; def to_proc; -> { self }; end; end
[02:28:37] hololeap: and then i can call `.group_by &nil` :p
[02:28:52] hololeap: oops s/Object/NilClass/
[02:29:22] hololeap: it's dumb, i know
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[02:38:22] [k-: Partition doesnt need a hash tho
[02:38:35] [k-: *create
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[02:39:16] [k-: Since nil is a falsey value, all nils will be the second array
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[02:39:32] [k-: But why would you want to keep nils
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[02:42:16] Senjai: Is datamapper pretty much dead?
[02:43:22] [k-: compact will also remove the nils
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[02:45:57] wmoxam: Senjai: last official release was in Oct. 2011
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[02:46:24] Senjai: wmoxam: It was kind of rhetorical, I'm going to axe it from cancancan
[02:46:29] Senjai: I just wanted to make sure
[02:46:35] Senjai: but thanks :P
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[02:47:58] heftig: Monitor is sort-of a recursive Mutex?
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[02:52:13] toretore: heftig: it is reentrant, yes, which Mutex is not
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[02:52:41] toretore: but is also about twice as costly to use
[02:53:06] heftig: just for checking the locking thread against the current thread?
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[03:20:58] Senjai: Is there a common way of display deprecation notices without active support?
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[03:21:08] Senjai: I've never had to do so in a gem that may not have access to active support
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[03:27:28] toretore: usually just output to stderr, aka `warn`, afaik
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[03:48:39] Senjai: Yeah, I guess that's what I'll do
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[04:28:55] hololeap: >> class Object; def method_missing name, *args, &blk; self; end; end; 45.is.an.awesome.number.here.let.me.show.you
[04:28:56] ruboto: hololeap # => 45 (https://eval.in/396865)
[04:30:05] [k-: We usually do not shorten &block to &blk
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[04:31:04] bnagy: &blk is incredibly common
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[04:31:35] [k-: I find it ugly
[04:31:41] bnagy: ok, well say that
[04:32:37] bnagy: also, someone just defined method_missing on Object and your complaint is choice of variable name for the block?? ;)
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[04:40:35] [k-: They can do whatever they want as long as it looks nice
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[04:58:11] konsolebox: and/or vs. &&/|| on non-assignment statements. your preference? and no it's-what's-preferred-by-the-community !@#$ please ;)
[04:59:35] Bloodshot: && and || are preferred almost always, I think
[04:59:41] Bloodshot: and and or have different precedence
[04:59:49] Bloodshot: And it's extra mental load
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[05:04:14] konsolebox: Bloodshot: i believe you're describing them the other way around :)
[05:04:41] Bloodshot: How do you mean, the other way around?
[05:05:28] konsolebox: Bloodshot: and and or has the same precedence. && has higher precedence than || which is more confusing, but the community persists that it's better :)
[05:05:52] Bloodshot: Oh, sorry, I meant 'and' and 'or' have different precedence than '&&' and '||'
[05:06:01] Bloodshot: Not that they have different precedence from each other
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[05:11:42] konsolebox: && and || can't be used in a chain, and if used in chains necessitates the use of () to keep precedence in control, which is ugly.
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[05:15:16] bnagy: I foolishly thought that you were asking a question, but apparently you just wanted to rant
[05:15:19] bnagy: ACTION wanders off
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[05:22:21] konsolebox: bnagy: i am needing of other users' insights of course. ranting, can be done in many ways, and this is not the best one
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[05:25:13] konsolebox: bnagy: i'm interested to see someone break my arguments in a strictly statistical and technical fashion ;)
[05:28:21] [k-: Too much effort
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[05:33:26] i8igmac: im writing some data to a mysql database with ruby, im very new to this database stuff... the database will be processed by a php script to display results on a webpage
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[05:33:57] i8igmac: im inserting this data with ruby, there is a part i feel im doing wrong, or there is a easer way
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[05:35:18] i8igmac: so this portion of goofy data, will be pulled with a php script
[05:35:33] i8igmac: the data i insert with ruby looks like this
[05:36:35] i8igmac: $eval=array('bob' => '/img/abc.jpg', 'tim' => '/img/xyz.jpg', ....and so on)
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[05:56:15] ZOMGITSABEAR: any webdesigners in here?
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[05:56:58] ZOMGITSABEAR: if not, then were would i find webdesigners?
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[06:20:14] ght: Question: I have a very strange scenario here. I'm passing a fairly long parameter to a Ruby app of mine. It takes the values of the parameter, ARGV[1], and
[06:20:21] ght: parses the values into a hash.
[06:20:34] ght: Normally this works fine, but intermittently, it cuts off the parameter at the space.
[06:24:10] T3: can you post an example parameter?
[06:24:34] T3: preferably the one that causes the error
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[06:27:39] bnagy: space is a separator for ARGV, no?
[06:27:46] bnagy: how is that unexpected?
[06:28:36] ght: Because it works 90% of the time
[06:28:46] ght: and them randomly, for no clear reason, it stops working
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[06:29:41] ght: the Ruby script is called from a seperate Bash script, I was at one point attempting to get the script to pass the parameter with double quotes around it but the concept of doing such blew everyones mind in #bash, and then it started working again, so I stopped.
[06:29:47] ght: It's a very bizarre situation.
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[06:31:35] bnagy: try p ARGV when you have a param that causes the fault
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[06:32:03] bnagy: but without some kind of quoting or escaping spaces will always separate ARGV params
[06:32:30] ght: Yes, it's quite bizarre
[06:33:25] bnagy: is there more than one param? Is just slurping the rest of ARGV an option?
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[06:34:35] bnagy: otherwise you can maybe do *stuff, last = ARGV
[06:34:48] bnagy: but stuff will always be an array now
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[06:58:51] tejasmanohar: https://gist.github.com/tejasmanohar/51a6c2177106ec0d34e4
[06:59:14] tejasmanohar: whats the easiest way to loop thru xml like this and grab all the `html_instructions`
[06:59:35] tejasmanohar: nokogiri + .each + build it into an array/string after checking the key?
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[07:36:22] [k-: Ox0dea, ping
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[07:43:16] apeiros: Senjai: actually there is: itself. ary.group_by(&:itself)
[07:43:26] apeiros: (a method which returns the object itself)
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[07:57:21] [k-: \o/ https://eval.in/396891
[07:57:58] shevy: more perl code
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[08:00:28] [k-: Decoding is much shorter than encoding!
[08:01:11] [k-: Security through obscurity !
[08:01:45] zenspider: damn. I do not miss that language at all
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[08:02:28] [k-: I am such a good ruby perler :)
[08:02:59] [k-: I figure if i change map to reduce...
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[08:10:01] [k-: Nailed it
[08:10:04] [k-: https://eval.in/396901
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[08:11:37] zenspider: nailed... something
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[08:12:46] [k-: Im still not sure how to change the regexp to support symbols and numbers
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[08:17:54] apeiros: what did thing do to deserve nailing? :-O
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[08:18:40] [k-: I used globals liberally :>
[08:19:29] apeiros: but you used send! that's alnums!
[08:19:43] apeiros: and scan and encode???
[08:19:47] apeiros: an reduce???
[08:19:57] [k-: There isnt any replacement that i knew off :(
[08:20:15] [k-: Encode was just there for readability
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[08:21:04] zenspider: hahahahhahahaha... um. readability?
[08:21:09] [k-: I can change reduce to a conversion to ord and back if you want
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[08:22:04] [k-: Thats the main thing the program was!
[08:24:08] shevy: this program
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[08:25:12] [k-: I could write a library of common operations
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[08:25:28] [k-: And include it in everything i write!
[08:25:49] [k-: I'll use $?? to access the lambdas
[08:26:30] [k-: And $??[?a] and any other symbols
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[08:31:26] shevy: now you did it [k-
[08:31:29] shevy: you made the cat laugh
[08:32:03] apeiros: [k-: but ?a is alnum
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[08:34:19] [k-: It doesnt matter cuz no one knows what $??[?a] does
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[08:48:35] apeiros: zenspider: don't contest me being nobody!
[08:48:49] apeiros: oh, ok, [k- said "no one", not "nobody".
[08:49:01] apeiros: good. so ?zensider will be "zenspider is no one" :)
[08:49:04] zenspider: you'll always be nobody to me :P
[08:49:17] [k-: https://eval.in/396946
[08:49:18] jhass: anybody doesn't care
[08:50:01] [k-: This could be a solution!
[08:51:21] [k-: Oh wait, 2 is missing :(
[08:52:28] [k-: https://eval.in/396948
[08:52:54] [k-: Its recursive!
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[08:53:17] [k-: So if you have a very long string, it will crash
[08:54:45] [k-: Not a very long string even
[08:54:53] [k-: Just random characters that
[08:55:07] [k-: Do not match the one before
[08:55:31] hotpancakes: has joined #ruby
[08:55:35] [k-: Im going to grab some strings from /dev/
[08:56:56] blackmes1: has joined #ruby
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[08:57:50] [k-: https://eval.in/396950
[08:58:01] [k-: It works! Excellent
[08:58:12] [k-: Time to integrate the solution
[08:59:25] zenspider: what IS the opposite of code golf, but where you're still trying to make an unreadable mess?
[09:00:09] [k-: Im guessing obfuscation
[09:00:19] apeiros: zenspider: they are trying to write code without alnum chars in it
[09:00:31] zenspider: "partition" ?
[09:00:33] apeiros: or at least that's what Ox0dea does. not sure about [k-
[09:01:14] [k-: [k- hasnt reached the skill of Ox0dea
[09:01:16] timonv: has joined #ruby
[09:01:28] [k-: So he is still relying on alnums
[09:01:51] tkuchiki: has joined #ruby
[09:02:02] [k-: https://devdocs.io/ruby/string#method-i-partition
[09:03:04] zenspider: whereas I try to write code with as few non-alnums as possible
[09:03:29] apeiros: natural mortal enemies
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[09:04:49] zenspider: mix our code and.... boom
[09:05:00] zenspider: or maybe it finally works?
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[09:10:21] [k-: Heh, i had a little trouble refactoring
[09:10:48] [k-: Here: https://eval.in/396953
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[09:20:33] [k-: You know what is even more devious?
[09:20:54] qiukun: has joined #ruby
[09:21:40] [k-: _m = [:partition, :method2, :method3,...].cycle
[09:22:21] [k-: So if you want method3, _m[299]
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[09:26:41] [k-: Im going to make this as obscure as possible and put it up on github
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[09:35:28] shevy: <zenspider> what IS the opposite of code golf, but where you're still trying to make an unreadable mess?
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[09:38:20] apeiros: ACTION sobs
[09:38:26] apeiros: ACTION wants GB fiber to home???
[09:38:26] [k-: has joined #ruby
[09:38:48] apeiros: even Gb would be good enough for the start.
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[09:45:32] shevy: [k- you are back!
[09:45:49] shevy: [k- do you repent your sins and will only write excellent ruby code henceforthwith?
[09:45:53] xkef_: has joined #ruby
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[09:46:24] [k-: One can never write excellent code, only code that satisfies him at that point in time
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[09:48:31] [k-: Hence, no
[09:48:42] [k-: Because i cant write excellent code
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[09:51:47] shevy: we could see that before :>
[09:52:13] [k-: Lies, that code was glorious
[09:53:02] [k-: Did you know researches can guess your password by listening to the sounds the machine makes?
[09:53:10] surs1: has joined #ruby
[09:53:21] [k-: By using this, they wouldnt be able to!
[09:53:38] jhass: or listen to your conversation by filming the plant nearby?
[09:53:56] shevy: [k- you mean based on the keys?
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[09:57:13] [k-: http://www.cnet.com/news/researchers-find-way-to-hack-gmail-with-92-percent-success-rate/
[09:57:19] [k-: I think i erred
[09:58:21] [k-: That isnt the article
[09:58:55] [k-: http://m.phys.org/news/2013-12-trio-rsa-encryption-keys-noise.html
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[10:05:35] [k-: It was in 2013
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[11:07:06] lxsameer_: I'm looking for xml web service client in ruby. is there any?
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[11:08:46] apeiros: "is there any" tells me that you spent exactly 0s on your own on this.
[11:09:02] apeiros: lxsameer_: ruby-toolbox.com. enjoy.
[11:09:35] lxsameer_: apeiros: no , I searched before an came up with several choices
[11:09:50] lxsameer_: apeiros: but I need to know it base on people experiences
[11:10:00] apeiros: then ask that.
[11:10:08] apeiros: show that you did your duty.
[11:10:17] apeiros: what you did is just pissing people like me off.
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[11:17:30] lxsameer_: apeiros: sorry about that
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[11:22:54] [k-: We shall punish him with an excerpt of my code
[11:23:13] [k-: And he has to tell us what it does!
[11:23:24] apeiros: [k-: that's exceptionally cruel
[11:29:40] apeiros: lxsameer_: no need to be sorry. I'm not offended. Just less inclined to help :) And I tell you that so you can improve the responses you get.
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[11:30:43] shevy: HE IS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU NOW!!!
[11:31:03] lxsameer_: apeiros: thanks
[11:31:08] lxsameer_: [k-: nooooooooooooooo
[11:31:11] shevy: not that I could, I gave up on xml years ago
[11:32:54] lxsameer_: unfortunately I have to :(
[11:34:14] shevy: well apeiros said that you can improve the responses you get
[11:34:20] shevy: so let's see if we can find a XML hero here!
[11:34:50] [k-: yorickpeterse!
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[11:42:28] shevy: back in 2003, XML would have excited so many people
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[12:15:21] [k-: let xml
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[12:24:56] aderium: https://gist.github.com/CirrusThink/246e332ad023a7542b1e
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[12:28:09] shevy: you almost went to finish :)
[12:28:15] shevy: you could in theory omit rdoc
[12:28:18] shevy: if you don't need them anyway
[12:28:36] aderium: that is what I am tryingnow --disable-install-doc
[12:28:38] shevy: that error is weird
[12:28:40] aderium: see what happens
[12:28:46] shevy: date_core.so: symbol rb_infinity: referenced symbol not found - /export/home/dolly/ruby-2.1.6/.ext/x86_64-solaris2.11/date_core.so (LoadError)
[12:29:03] aderium: not sure what that is
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[12:29:43] shevy: interestingly
[12:29:47] shevy: I also have this file: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ruby/2.1.0/date_core.so
[12:29:53] shevy: in my self-compiled ruby, I don't have it at all
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[12:30:55] aderium: date/date_core.c
[12:31:04] aderium: Home class method ?
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[12:31:51] aderium: Ladies & gentelman ......
[12:32:02] aderium: we have a winner
[12:32:06] shevy: did you run irb yet
[12:32:30] shevy: ah btw you should document your findings too at the bug tracker
[12:32:35] aderium: https://gist.github.com/CirrusThink/ebddc5f44db9cd3cf4da
[12:32:46] aderium: I will blog it next :)
[12:32:53] aderium: I did not run irb yet
[12:32:58] aderium: not sure what that means or why
[12:33:04] aderium: I am a ruby infant :)
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[12:33:24] shevy: in bin/irb you can run it directly I think: ./bin/irb
[12:33:26] shevy: from that dir
[12:33:32] shevy: if it starts up fine and works then I believe you!
[12:33:51] shevy: you are not only an infant
[12:33:53] shevy: you are an exot
[12:34:00] aderium: yeah but here is the thing ..... I am so upset ... file ruby
[12:34:00] aderium: ruby: ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
[12:34:07] aderium: how can that be
[12:34:09] shevy: that is strange
[12:34:43] aderium: 1.9.3-p545 :001 >
[12:34:47] aderium: now that is strange
[12:34:54] aderium: something going on with a previous rvm install ?
[12:34:59] jhass: it's using your system ruby
[12:34:59] shevy: I don't know what ./irb is there
[12:35:08] jhass: ./bin/ruby ./bin/irb
[12:35:24] aderium: ~/ruby64/bin/irb
[12:35:46] shevy: installing binary commands: /export/home/dolly/ruby64/bin
[12:36:01] jhass: ~/ruby64/bin/ruby ~/ruby64/bin/irb then
[12:36:01] aderium: so I irb from that location
[12:36:01] shevy: Aderium did you try RUBY_VERSION inside too?
[12:36:09] aderium: let me see
[12:36:32] aderium: dolly@vdocklab01:~/ruby64/bin$ ./ruby -v
[12:36:32] aderium: ruby 2.1.6p336 (2015-04-13 revision 50298) [x86_64-solaris2.11]
[12:36:45] shevy: yay now you have several different ruby versions!
[12:36:47] aderium: now I am confused
[12:36:54] jhass: try my suggestion
[12:36:54] shevy: add one more ruby version :>
[12:37:06] shevy: or kill the other ones
[12:37:15] jhass: irb is a script. with a hashbang
[12:37:37] jhass: your ~/ruby64/bin doesn't come before your /usr/bin/ or whatever in your $PATH
[12:37:41] aderium: i see that but rvm maybe defaulting the env ruby ver
[12:37:49] aderium: ok one sec
[12:40:13] aderium: export PATH=/export/home/dolly/ruby64/bin
[12:40:36] aderium: ruby 2.1.6p336 (2015-04-13 revision 50298) [x86_64-solaris2.11]
[12:40:38] jhass: uhm completely replacing PATH might not be a good idea
[12:40:46] jhass: why won't you try my suggestion
[12:40:49] jhass: ~/ruby64/bin/ruby ~/ruby64/bin/irb then
[12:40:54] aderium: just added not replaced
[12:40:59] aderium: but if I irb
[12:41:02] aderium: 1.9.3-p545 :001 >
[12:41:09] jhass: k, I give up
[12:41:19] aderium: a common ....
[12:41:24] aderium: been at this for days :)
[12:41:29] aderium: let me remove rvm
[12:41:33] aderium: unles ....
[12:41:58] jhass: idk why you don't try my suggestion
[12:41:58] shevy: Aderium if you don't need the old one
[12:42:00] aderium: ideally what needs to happen is to tell rvm to install 2.1.6 but that if it does not find binaries to get the local source
[12:42:00] shevy: then kill it
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[12:42:44] shevy: or modify $PATH
[12:42:48] jhass: do you need RVM? chruby you can just point at your compile
[12:42:53] jhass: with rvm there's the mount stuff
[12:43:10] jhass: rvm help mount iirc
[12:43:28] jhass: but depending on what you're doing just using the full path to the binary may work
[12:43:37] aderium: I dont necessarly need rvm but I never used chruby
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[12:43:41] jhass: like in my suggestion to try runing irb under it
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[12:44:28] shevy: full path should always work
[12:44:52] shevy: btw how comes he can compile it on solaris, but fail to invoke it properly :)))
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[12:45:23] shevy: that's like successfully running a marathon - but unable to go to a shop and buy running shoes
[12:47:11] [k-: https://github.com/khobbits/Lain/blob/master/essai.tcl
[12:47:40] jhass: [k-: wrong channel?
[12:49:18] [k-: look at the code ;)
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[12:53:30] bnagy: does -W0 not work with ruby -e ? I'm getting the "world writeable dir in path" error, and I have it there on purpose
[12:53:43] aderium: ok imploded rvm
[12:54:20] bnagy: Aderium: I would run a find just to make sure everything is gone, imho
[12:54:37] bnagy: I got bitten by a long dead rvm install just the other day
[12:54:57] bnagy: find / -iname "*rvm*" -type f 2>/dev/null or something
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[12:56:05] aderium: ruby 2.1.6p336 (2015-04-13 revision 50298) [x86_64-solaris2.11]
[12:56:06] aderium: dolly@vdocklab01:~$ irb
[12:56:06] aderium: irb(main):001:0> exit
[12:56:08] aderium: dolly@vdocklab01:~$ which ruby
[12:56:16] aderium: now what should I do in irb
[12:56:39] aderium: this is madness
[12:56:50] aderium: its all 64 bit but its linking to elf 32-bit
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[12:57:22] aderium: ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
[12:58:10] jhass: RUBY_DESCRIPTION
[12:58:15] jhass: inside irb
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[12:58:35] aderium: => "ruby 2.1.6p336 (2015-04-13 revision 50298) [x86_64-solaris2.11]"
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[13:00:06] jhass: RbConfig::CONFIG may have some interesting keys too, target/host/build cpu, os, vendor
[13:00:23] aderium: should I type that in irb ?
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[13:00:32] shevy: it is valid ruby after all
[13:00:48] aderium: https://gist.github.com/CirrusThink/db3dcb72f383d302eca4
[13:00:57] jhass: just RbConfig::CONFIG or treat it like a hash with string keys
[13:01:21] jhass: okay, mayb require "pp" and pp RbConfig::CONFIG :P
[13:01:22] shevy: "build_cpu"=>"x86_64"
[13:01:25] shevy: seems fine doesn't it?
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[13:01:28] jhass: ACTION is spoiled by pry
[13:01:37] shevy: btw Aderium have you tried "gem env" already
[13:02:16] aderium: https://gist.github.com/CirrusThink/0c2aa378b84a2c7c121d
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[13:02:42] aderium: gem install libyalm ?
[13:02:48] shevy: no it is c code
[13:02:54] bnagy: madness. The warning warns when _any_ dir that's in the tree of a dir in my path is world writeable
[13:02:55] jhass: libyaml is a c library
[13:02:56] shevy: you can wget it like from here: wget http://pyyaml.org/download/libyaml/yaml-0.1.6.tar.gz
[13:03:05] bnagy: so.. so much for nfs
[13:03:08] shevy: it won't take long to compile, 2 minutes or so
[13:03:23] bnagy: and it's a compile CFLAG to disable
[13:03:30] bnagy: not, like, env or anything smart
[13:03:34] bnagy: muppets. :<
[13:03:42] shevy: bnagy yeah, ruby's warnings are weird
[13:04:10] shevy: same with things such as naming something a "constant", and being able to change it. in the past, one had different warnings when redefining a constant
[13:04:16] jhass: bnagy: maybe it's because it's a really really really bad idea ;P
[13:04:17] shevy: I remember, Object.const_set() used to not give a warning
[13:04:28] bnagy: well I'm kind of o_0 that -W0 doesn't fix it
[13:04:29] aderium: its making
[13:04:48] shevy: there should not be any error :)
[13:04:52] bnagy: jhass: it's not always a bad idea at all
[13:05:15] jhass: world writable directory in PATH? yes it is
[13:05:20] bnagy: neither you nor ruby knows enough about my security posture to spam warnings that can't be reasonably disabled
[13:05:43] shevy: yeah, user should have the option to overrule at user preference
[13:06:12] bnagy: like.. there is the user ruby is running as and there is root
[13:06:13] aderium: ok yalm installed
[13:06:25] bnagy: why should I care about anything being world writeable?
[13:06:35] shevy: Aderium problem is I don't know how to recompile only the bindings part :\
[13:06:48] aderium: I may have to recompile the whole thing then
[13:06:50] shevy: Aderium I usually compile again :P
[13:06:53] shevy: yeah, I do that too
[13:07:02] shevy: but aside from libyaml, there should be no showstoppers
[13:07:12] shevy: the bindings in ext/ directory like readline or openssl can be compiled lateron
[13:07:14] jhass: bnagy: the user ruby should run under has no business of placing binaries into its PATH potentially shadowing others
[13:07:50] jhass: and if you have two users only, why make it world writable, just give the one user the permissions if it's so necessary and keep the others out
[13:07:54] aderium: yalm also was installed 32 bit ...
[13:08:14] aderium: ok breack and reboot
[13:08:18] shevy: Aderium oh?
[13:08:20] jhass: Aderium: maybe your linker is somehow incapable to generate ELF 64bit?
[13:08:21] bnagy: jhass: because it warns when ANY OF THE DIRS in /path/to/blah are world writeable
[13:08:42] aderium: I am not sure that that should be the case
[13:08:48] aderium: I am running autoconf before configure
[13:08:56] jhass: well yeah, if any is world writable I can just rm -rf something under it and recreate it to my liking
[13:08:58] aderium: I wonder if that screws things up
[13:09:18] jhass: from any user
[13:09:26] shevy: don't think autoconf should screw up anything, it only obtains the information from... configure.ac or configure.in doesn't it?
[13:09:33] shevy: and config.guess
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[13:09:34] bnagy: of which there are two
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[13:10:10] bnagy: but it's not a matter of debating my security posture on this system, which IS FINE it's a matter of retarded undisableable warnings being bad software behaviour
[13:10:12] jhass: why is chgrp or chown so much more of a headache to you than chmod 777 ?
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[13:10:30] bnagy: any warning that can't be silenced is, imho, a bug
[13:11:09] shevy: it's spam
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[13:12:27] [k-_: @SuppressWarnings
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[13:13:02] bnagy: if -W0 worked I would be less enraged about it
[13:13:32] [k-_: oh -W stood for warnings
[13:13:48] shevy: -W0 means disable all warnings? or only specific warnings?
[13:14:27] [k-_: im itching to show Ox0dea my heinious creation ;)
[13:14:35] shevy: Ox0dea is not here
[13:14:39] shevy: ACTION sighs relievedly.
[13:14:51] bnagy: shevy: 0 Verbose mode is "silence". It sets the $VERBOSE to nil
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[13:15:20] bnagy: so obviously this CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY is too egregious to ever be silenced
[13:15:24] [k-_: did you set $DEBUG to nil too
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[13:15:39] bnagy: debug is off by default
[13:15:48] shevy: do you play with global vars [k-_ :P
[13:16:08] [k-_: i do not play with the ones that come with ruby
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[13:16:56] bnagy: I can't even 2>/dev/null because the script well-behavedly prints info output to stderr
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[13:18:06] bnagy: (??????????????????? ????????? time to make dinner instead
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[13:40:11] aderium: yaml alos soffers from the same imporper uname issues ...
[13:40:26] aderium: now I need to figure out where it gueeses arch by uname -p ...
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[13:42:42] aderium: config guee is yaml is like the same file ...
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[13:45:09] shevy: sevenseacat we speak cat language!
[13:46:11] shevy: Translation of Aderium: meow meow meow ... config.guess ... meow meow meow
[13:46:31] sevenseacat: Aderium: what did you say about my mother!?
[13:47:32] aderium: what I was stating is that the yaml config/config.guess file also suffers from the imprper settings for Solaris, so I am using the one I ad-hocked for ruby open source
[13:47:58] sevenseacat: dunno what that means, but good to know :thumbsup:
[13:48:11] aderium: shevy you tellhim :)
[13:48:41] shevy: I think jhass mentioned that yesterday or so
[13:49:01] shevy: since you run into that problem with config.guess, perhaps it may be best to indeed use a wrapper script over uname, that yields back these required settings
[13:49:20] shevy: (while internally calling ... ifo ... something. whatever the name was)
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[13:54:33] heftig: is `*a = *a` and `a = Array(a)` identical?
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[13:58:55] shevy: the first one seems to yield a new object?
[14:00:41] aderium: yaml config.sub does not include anything for sun5
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[14:09:44] aderium: ok Yaml is now configured in 64
[14:10:01] [k-_: how do you get length for an array 0xOdea way, baweaver?
[14:10:04] aderium: but now I need to tell ruby where to get the yamnl lib from during configuration
[14:10:43] shevy: Aderium is it not in /usr/lib ?
[14:10:57] aderium: no I can put it there though
[14:11:17] aderium: lib/libyaml.so: ELF 64-bit LSB dynamic lib AMD64 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
[14:11:30] shevy: so libyaml is 64 bit and ruby is 32 bit :D
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[14:11:52] aderium: I have not recompiled ruby yet
[14:12:01] shevy: I once wanted a completely static build of ruby
[14:12:08] aderium: I am about to but I need to put the yaml.so in the correct place
[14:12:19] shevy: but ldd ruby has things like libgmp.so.10 => /usr/lib/libgmp.so.10 (0x00007f417bdeb000) and I never managed to get a static ruby
[14:12:44] shevy: Anyone of you here has managed to compile a completely static version of ruby that works?
[14:13:32] [k-_: have you seen how massive ghc is
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[14:16:59] shevy: Laurent Sansonetti seems to have succeed with LLVM, I'll try that later today: www.slideshare.net/LaurentSansonetti/inside-rubymotion-llvm
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[14:17:24] [k-_: https://www.haskell.org/platform/
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[14:23:23] aderium: ok now compiling ruby
[14:23:34] aderium: lets see what it catches
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[14:29:06] aderium: looks likeits parsing correcli the rdoc this time
[14:29:18] aderium: i changes CC grom gcc to SunSolarisStudio
[14:29:29] aderium: i changes CC from gcc to SunSolarisStudio
[14:29:43] aderium: but maybe its working because yaml lib is there now
[14:30:17] aderium: and so far make is making all the .o in 54 bit :)
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[14:32:17] shevy: oh 54 bit
[14:32:19] shevy: that is exotic
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[14:34:29] aderium: https://gist.github.com/CirrusThink/54714c71b6cbecab6e72
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[14:35:06] aderium: dolly@vdocklab01:~/ruby64/ruby-2.1.6/bin$ file ruby
[14:35:06] aderium: ruby: ELF 64-bit LSB executable AMD64 Version 1 [SSE2 SSE], dynamically linked, not stripped
[14:35:11] aderium: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:35:40] [k-_: how do you even require a script in irb
[14:35:52] jhass: not any differently
[14:35:53] [k-_: WHY DOESNT REQUIRE 'SCRIPTNAME' WORK
[14:35:57] aderium: ruby 2.1.6p336 (2015-04-13 revision 50298) [x86_64-solaris2.11]
[14:36:01] jhass: BECAUSE $LOAD_PATH
[14:36:02] [k-_: it is in the same directory!
[14:36:22] jhass: use require_relative or irb -I.
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[14:36:45] [k-_: it doesnt work as well
[14:37:03] aderium: now documentation of insanity
[14:37:17] jhass: how about some patches?
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[14:37:29] havenwood: Aderium: grats
[14:38:11] [k-_: -lfilenamewithoutrbextension fails too
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[14:38:57] [k-_: whyyyyyyyyyyyy
[14:39:14] aderium: uhm ... well now can I use bundle install ?
[14:39:27] aderium: and install gems in the directory where ruby is ?
[14:39:33] havenwood: Aderium: Bundler's a gem, so you have to: gem install bundler
[14:39:39] shevy: try "gem env"
[14:39:48] havenwood: Aderium: Yeah, by default it'll install in $GEM_HOME like normal.
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[14:40:10] [k-_: what happened, suddenly require 'filenamewithoutrbextension' works
[14:40:18] shevy: ruby learned and got smarter [k-_
[14:40:25] aderium: that env is empty ... uhm
[14:40:29] [k-_: require 'set' made something happen
[14:40:34] shevy: how can it be empty
[14:40:44] havenwood: Aderium: If you set a `--path` it's remembered.
[14:41:01] aderium: it in the same pathof whre I installed 64 bit
[14:41:17] shevy: Aderium that is my current one http://pastie.org/pastes/10288156/text
[14:41:48] aderium: how do I get all that ?
[14:41:55] aderium: ruby env ?
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[14:41:58] shevy: do you use the wrong gem?
[14:42:00] shevy: nono "gem env"
[14:42:12] [k-_: $? isnt used right, im going to use it for my library
[14:42:12] shevy: perhaps you use the rvm one still
[14:42:16] aderium: ok perfect
[14:42:23] aderium: i took out rvm all together
[14:42:24] shevy: [k-_ why are you so evil
[14:42:34] [k-_: ??\_(???)_/??
[14:42:43] shevy: I think $? is used...
[14:42:49] [k-_: for what :o
[14:43:01] shevy: $?: status of the latest executed child process
[14:43:24] shevy: you could use it and then restore it after your script has finished :)
[14:43:52] [k-_: they use all the $(symbols on the keyboard) :(
[14:43:57] shevy: I do that with $VERBOSE ... similar reason to bnagy ... though another error, since I use syck locally and not psych
[14:44:07] shevy: erm, I meant not error, but a warning
[14:44:11] [k-_: i'll use $= then
[14:44:24] shevy: is that legal?
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[14:44:33] [k-_: i tried already
[14:44:37] shevy: >> $= 'abc'; $=
[14:44:38] ruboto: [k-_ # => /tmp/execpad-c1b5246815d7/source-c1b5246815d7:2: warning: variable $= is no longer effective ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397076)
[14:44:39] ruboto: shevy # => /tmp/execpad-3411201f5e39/source-3411201f5e39:2: syntax error, unexpected tSTRING_BEG, expecting key ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397076)
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[14:44:49] shevy: what a strange warning
[14:45:14] shevy: please do not break ruby [k-_
[14:45:22] [k-_: how dare you override my eval.in!
[14:45:26] [k-_: apeiros: bug
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[14:45:35] [k-_: race condition i believe
[14:45:42] ruboto: [k-_ # => /tmp/execpad-62a8df47fa2b/source-62a8df47fa2b:2: warning: variable $= is no longer effective ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397077)
[14:45:50] shevy: what does this even mean
[14:45:54] shevy: "no longer effective"
[14:46:03] apeiros: [k-_: contact charliesome :)
[14:47:36] [k-_: charliesome: you have been contacted
[14:47:38] [k-_: $= # The flag for case insensitive. Defaults to nil. Deprecated.
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[14:47:44] [k-_: yay for zenspider!
[14:48:03] shevy: defaults to nil O_O
[14:48:09] ruboto: shevy # => nil (https://eval.in/397078)
[14:48:21] shevy: how do you assign to $= anyway?
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[14:48:46] [k-_: >> $= = ?=
[14:48:47] ruboto: [k-_ # => /tmp/execpad-c32fa4de393e/source-c32fa4de393e:2: warning: variable $= is no longer effective; ignore ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397079)
[14:49:00] [k-_: there it works
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[14:50:15] shevy: you are using your ugly syntax now
[14:50:36] [k-_: my code was always ugly
[14:50:46] [k-_: im going to use $-o
[14:50:49] shevy: regular syntax is also ugly:
[14:51:08] apeiros: [k-_: charliesome is not in the channel at the moment. he won't see the ping.
[14:51:10] ruboto: [k-_ # => /tmp/execpad-be00d7f8c0a9/source-be00d7f8c0a9:2: warning: variable $= is no longer effective; ignore ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397080)
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[14:52:43] [k-_: today i bring you the knowledge that you can use alias on globals
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[15:22:28] [k-_: i forgot how to get SuperNaN :(
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[15:23:19] [k-_: lucky the channel has logs :>
[15:24:42] shevy: what the h is SuperNaN
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[15:25:48] [k-_: https://eval.in/396505
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[15:39:02] [k-_: i cant...reproduce SuperNaN with my library
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[15:39:34] ljen: Hi all ??? I am working on a Lisp interpreter and I'm having trouble with a super basic problem. For some reason I'm getting an "undefined method is_a_list?" error when I run this: https://gist.github.com/paeeon/83f22a9ff4bfb3ac0bf3 Any ideas would be much appreciated :o)
[15:40:21] Scripore: has joined #ruby
[15:40:46] [k-_: you did not monkeypatch File
[15:41:04] [k-_: is_a_list? is only available on the Interpreter class
[15:41:07] havenwood: ljen: There's no String#is_a_list? method defined. You're not calling #is_a_list? on an instance of Interpreter.
[15:41:48] havenwood: Oh, right, not String.
[15:41:57] ljen: Ohhhh? I thought that is_a_list? was an instance method.
[15:42:05] [k-_: yes it is
[15:42:11] havenwood: ljen: An instance method for Interpreter not File or IO.
[15:42:59] ljen: Ohh, okay. Does it make sense to monkey patch it inside the Interpreter class?
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[15:44:16] havenwood: ljen: Change `is_a_list?` to `is_a_list? file` and change `file.is_a_list?` to `is_a_list?(file)`.
[15:44:25] aderium: how do I install a gem manually from a specific source ?
[15:44:34] havenwood: ljen: Then `file.read` instead of `self.read`.
[15:44:44] ljen: Ohh, I think I fixed it by opening the File class and adding the is_a_list method
[15:44:51] aderium: like a specific fork from github
[15:45:17] jhass: Aderium: if you use bundler, just gem "foo", github: "bla/foo"
[15:47:19] aderium: not via bundler, manually
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[15:47:44] jhass: clone the repo and run gem build on the .gemspec, then install the resulting .gem
[15:47:51] [k-_: i reproduced it!
[15:49:34] [k-_: https://gist.github.com/SkyBirdSoar/2d1267be7661d1ee0803
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[16:02:27] havenwood: Aderium: Just to show off new-ish RubyGems features, here's how you could install from a gem.deps.rb file: echo "gem 'rake', git: 'https://github.com/ruby/rake.git'" > gem.deps.rb && gem i -g --no-lock
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[16:04:25] havenwood: Aderium: Then if you want to add more gems to your gem.deps.rb file RubyGems will resolve the dependencies.
[16:04:41] havenwood: Just like Bundler with a Gemfile.
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[16:05:42] adaedra: havenwood: neat
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[16:16:56] shevy: is this documented outside havenwood's mighty brain as well? :)
[16:19:11] havenwood: shevy: https://github.com/rubygems/rubygems/blob/master/History.txt#L459-L465
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[16:20:04] havenwood: shevy: But no, I don't know where the resolver support for git is documented outside of the code itself.
[16:20:29] havenwood: shevy: https://github.com/rubygems/rubygems/tree/master/lib/rubygems/resolver
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[16:30:20] havenwood: Documented after all :) https://github.com/rubygems/rubygems/blob/d3db595be39639fdc6b020e24fab4d0cf052b448/lib/rubygems/commands/help_command.rb#L128
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[16:31:51] havenwood: gem help gem_dependencie
[16:31:55] havenwood: gem help gem_dependencies
[16:32:34] havenwood: gem 'bang', gist: '1232884'
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[16:51:42] shevy: dependency.rb:315:in `to_specs': Could not find 'ruby' (>= 0) among 194 total gem(s) (Gem::LoadError)
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[17:08:09] [k-_: what i have now: https://gist.github.com/SkyBirdSoar/2d1267be7661d1ee0803
[17:08:26] [k-_: planning to add encode and decode for use with obscure_method_name
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[17:09:46] Stratege_: heya, I've keep hearing people bring up ruby and wanted to know if there's perhaps somewhere a list of the benefits of using ruby, or what you all personally enjoy about ruby and why you picked it as your language of choice? :)
[17:09:48] [k-_: method of the day: $??[?+]
[17:10:07] [k-_: ^ thats not ruby!
[17:10:18] [k-_: ACTION wipes sweat off
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[17:12:20] Coraline: Stratege_: I like Ruby for the fast feedback cycle it provides and the English-like syntax. It's very readable and easily understandable.
[17:12:27] Coraline: And flexible enough for a variety of tasks.
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[17:12:56] shevy: Stratege_ this interview made me pick ruby over python years ago: http://www.artima.com/intv/ruby.html
[17:13:03] Coraline: I came to Ruby from Java.
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[17:13:59] Stratege_: Coraline that sounds like ruby has a repl? cool
[17:14:03] Stratege_: shevy thanks! will read it
[17:15:51] pontiki: i chose ruby because it makes me so happy to code in it. it reminds of me of those halcyon days of my youth learning lisp and then later smalltalk
[17:16:55] pontiki: ACTION 's sekrit plan is to scare newbies away
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[17:17:39] Stratege_: pontiki I've heard the claim that ruby -is- a lisp, although one with a peculiar syntax for a lisp. And the things I've heard so far (metaprogramming, eval, repl, etc) seem to suggest that that's infact the case, would you agree? And then... why use ruby instead of, say, scheme?
[17:18:24] Stratege_: (oh you'll have to mention java a lot more and smalltalk/lisp a lot less to scare me away ^^)
[17:18:38] pontiki: i don't think ruby is a lisp, though matz's use of lisp influenced ruby's functional programming aspects
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[17:19:49] Stratege_: fair enough, thanks
[17:20:07] tmtwd: not a lisp
[17:20:16] tmtwd: there are some similarities though
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[17:20:34] tmtwd: you often don't need an explicit return statement in ruby
[17:20:49] Stratege_: mind pointing out which things make it so that it's not a lisp? I suppose the way it's evaluated differs?
[17:21:16] pontiki: ruby is not homoiconic
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[17:22:08] Stratege: well, yeah.
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[17:23:23] apeiros: is ruby heteroiconic?
[17:23:47] pontiki: but the distinction, for me, is really rather pointless; i learned to really love programming by learning lisp, and ruby gives me the same feeling of joy and beauty
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[17:24:19] pontiki: if you're looking for a rational, measureable difference from me, i don't care about that
[17:25:12] havenwood: shevy: adaedra: Here's an example gem that's just a gist installed via RubyGems: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/2f58ca4bbbb8c5720dc6
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[17:26:40] shevy: (hi(pontiki!))
[17:26:58] Stratege: pontiki I just figured the question might help me understand what ruby is considered to be or not considered to be by those who use it. Just looking for a way to see what people see in it, without committing to do a major project in it to find it out.
[17:27:20] shevy: ah you already got the ruby philosophy
[17:27:23] shevy: of laziness! \o/
[17:27:33] Stratege: still strictly evaluated, right?
[17:27:55] pontiki: (greet 'shelly)
[17:28:19] Stratege: because I really had my fill of lazily evaluated languages for the time being, don't need to add another one on ^^
[17:28:41] pontiki: what languages have you been using, Stratege ?
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[17:29:40] sebbers_: can someone help me with this problem https://gist.github.com/anonymous/270195d6d7e9f5d83819?
[17:29:44] pontiki: because i'm going to give you the PragProg philosphy: learn a new language every year, but one in a different paradigm than you've been using
[17:29:44] Stratege: C++, Python, bits of racket (scheme dialect), bunch of C# and currently my main language is Haskell.
[17:29:44] shevy: laziness of the programmer
[17:29:47] shevy: not laziness of ruby
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[17:30:17] shevy: sebbers_ is this homework
[17:30:40] sebbers_: the coding part is easy but its the formula
[17:30:45] shevy: you need to convert this into code
[17:30:45] sebbers_: for calculating the MPH
[17:30:49] sebbers_: given the info
[17:30:51] sebbers_: that i have NO IDEA
[17:30:59] rehat: new to ruby, if I have a method that returns a custom object and I am trying to put the object into an array I get this error "no implicit conversion of Shirt into Array (TypeError)"
[17:31:03] Stratege: pontiki guess why I'm here ^^ it's been a bit over a year ago that I picked up Haskell, and I'm fairly comfortable with it, so I'm now looking for another language to evaluate and look if it might be useful to learn.
[17:31:03] sebbers_: how to even take the information and create a formula out of it
[17:31:18] shevy: miles per hours - now you just have to find which part yields to it
[17:31:21] pontiki: Stratege: given that list, you might get a lot out of learning ruby, even if you don't ever work in it going forward. ruby has certain idioms and ways of expressing concepts that are interesting
[17:31:36] sebbers_: ya i cant figure out what to do with the given information shevy
[17:31:42] shevy: yeah it looks like utter shit
[17:31:49] shevy: super verbose
[17:31:52] shevy: trim it down, make it logical
[17:31:56] sebbers_: well actually
[17:32:01] sebbers_: its for a job interview
[17:32:06] pontiki: Stratege: at the same time, you didn't mention Java, and learning Java deeply enough to be competent in it will teach you a lot as well
[17:32:13] sebbers_: its pissing me off bc this is such a horrible problem description
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[17:32:48] shevy: rehat do you have minimal code that reproduces the problem?
[17:32:55] pontiki: the difficulty, for me, is that i don't think i could have learned Java without having a dedicated paid project to do so with
[17:33:01] Stratege: yeah but I was already in #Java a while ago and the community was just really hostile. The language seems to be extremely lacking and the syntax is just extremely verbose. All together puts me off from wanting to learn more about Java.
[17:33:36] pontiki: yeah, i can understand that, very well, Stratege
[17:33:47] shevy: java is verbose
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[17:33:58] shevy: we have to accept it
[17:34:23] pontiki: java is baroque in it's verbosity; tons of ritual
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[17:34:44] rehat: shevy: https://gist.github.com/rehat/b337e300230b53fe9038
[17:35:00] pontiki: it was definitely worth it to me to experience that
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[17:35:48] shevy: rehat well that code is a bit strange. you can use << rather than +=
[17:36:06] shevy: parse_shirt_info gives you a shirt object?
[17:36:11] shevy: you can put that into an Array just fine
[17:36:35] Stratege: I think going from Haskell to Java would be an extreme test in frustration tolerance. Being unable to express all those neat and concise concepts in code. And suddenly having a type system that's just a bit of a travesty...
[17:36:43] rehat: oh << is for a single object and += is for concatenating an array?
[17:36:47] shevy: >> class Shirt; end; array = []; array << Shirt.new << Shirt.new; array
[17:36:48] ruboto: shevy # => [#<Shirt:0x410c3fa0>, #<Shirt:0x410c3f8c>] (https://eval.in/397127)
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[17:37:07] Stratege: mind pointing me in the right directions for interesting ruby idioms and ways of expressing concepts? Anything particularly noteworthy perhaps? :)
[17:37:08] shevy: in both cases you append to the array
[17:37:28] shevy: << will be faster
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[17:37:57] shevy: via += you create an additional object, it is a shortcut just like the other variants -= *= and so forth
[17:38:17] rehat: shevy: sweet thanks
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[17:49:35] yh: I have a long running process I wish to asynchronously invoke remotely. Would anyone recommend a library/framework?
[17:50:29] yh: I'd call a service with some sort of parameter, it'd return a HTTP 202 (or such) - then upon completion initiate an RPC (HTTP, SNS, whatever) to let me know it finished
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[18:16:38] havenwood: yh: From what you've said so far the first thing that came to my mind was Typhoeus: https://github.com/typhoeus/typhoeus#handling-http-errors
[18:17:47] JulienTa_: ActiveSupport::TestCase is a shortcut for module ActiveSupport ; class TestCase ?
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[18:19:33] havenwood: JulienTa_: TestCase is not a module
[18:19:42] havenwood: JulienTa_: Ah, yes.
[18:19:47] JulienTa_: hehe thanks :)
[18:20:24] JulienTa_: I'm a noob (starting Ruby & RoR today), and i'm already challenging myself with rubocop hehe :)
[18:20:41] havenwood: JulienTa_: The former relies on `module ActiveSupport` having already been declared.
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[18:21:11] JulienTa_: and rubocop says
[18:21:11] JulienTa_: test/test_helper.rb:5:7: C: Use nested module/class definitions instead of compact style.
[18:21:11] JulienTa_: class ActiveSupport::TestCase
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[18:21:29] JulienTa_: so i try to figure how to fix this, buyt now i know :) thanks
[18:21:51] havenwood: JulienTa_: Yeah, that way it wont break if `module ActiveSupport` hasn't yet been defined.
[18:22:08] havenwood: ?rails JulienTa_
[18:22:08] ruboto: JulienTa_, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
[18:22:45] havenwood: JulienTa_: ^ Not that this was a Rails-specific question at all, but just for reference you'll have the best luck with Rails questions in #RubyOnRails.
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[18:23:44] JulienTa_: I'm already in, thanks havenwood :)
[18:23:49] havenwood: JulienTa_: Ah, nice.
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[19:10:28] shevy: hey havenwood I got news from tiobe http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
[19:10:39] shevy: first news is "SyntaxError: missing ) after argument l"
[19:10:44] shevy: working with professionals here!
[19:11:05] shevy: and second news is ... ruby is rising again!!!
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[19:17:19] i8igmac: Thread.list.each{|t| Thread.kill(t)}
[19:17:31] i8igmac: this will kill all the threads including the irb shell
[19:17:53] i8igmac: what threasd is the interpreter
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[19:18:22] i8igmac: [#<Thread:0x000000020dcff8 run>]
[19:18:54] i8igmac: Thread.list.each{|t| puts t.to_s.include?("run")}
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[19:20:06] i8igmac: Thread.list.each {|t| if not t.to_s.include?("run"); Thread.kill(t); end}
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[19:20:20] Thomas-0725: Hi! I am defining a method that can take either just a keyword or a keyword => value. I want both of these method calls to work: < my_method("word") > as well as < my_method("word" => "definition) >. What does this look like when I define the method? def my_method(option), and then determine the class of option and act accordingly?
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[19:21:47] waxjar: yes. though it's better to stick to a single signature
[19:22:16] Thomas-0725: What do you mean signature?
[19:22:17] shevy: Thomas-0725 inside your method, check for whether you have a hash or not
[19:22:55] Thomas-0725: Oh ok. I was unsure if there was a ruby feature that I just did't know about that made it slightly easier. Checking for a hash was the obvious option, but I wasn't sure if it was the best.
[19:22:55] apeiros: Thomas-0725: the method signature is how the method "looks" to the outside
[19:23:10] apeiros: i.e. how many arguments it accepts, what types of arguments it accepts etc.
[19:23:24] Thomas-0725: apeiros, ah, ok. This is part of a practice set of problems, so my hands are tied. But for future reference, noted. :D
[19:23:56] apeiros: and I agree with waxjar: methods which try to accept all and everything are inherently bad. force the user of the method to normalize.
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[19:24:02] apeiros: and for common cases, provide an alternative method.
[19:24:17] apeiros: (which does the normalization and calls the "canonical" method)
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[19:35:19] yh: havenwood: hey. Typhoeus is great (well, actually I'm rewriting a Typhoeus component because it sucks on JRuby, but...),
[19:35:34] yh: however that's more for issuing requests, I'm kind of thinking about _receiving_ them
[19:35:50] yh: Perhaps I can just knock this up in Sinatra, I just don't want to reinvent wheels too much
[19:36:56] yh: Maybe ideally it'd actually be like this
[19:37:09] yh: 1) Service Foo should receive a request with params 2) Execute a process on its system, have a websocket to its STDOUT/STDERR
[19:37:19] yh: Not worried about STDIN.
[19:37:39] yh: Was thinking of returning a HTTP 202 (Accepted/Processing), but would be good to get a constant stream from output and maintain a connection
[19:37:54] yh: Not sure how websockets would respond to the connection dropping, as far as resuming it goes, though
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[19:43:49] Thomas-0725: Should I wait until I am proficient in Ruby itself before diving into Rails, or does it make more sense to learn the two simultaneously?
[19:44:00] havenwood: yh: How about Server-Sent Event-stream? That's actually reconnect.
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[19:44:36] havenwood: Thomas-0725: I'd suggest learning Ruby before Rails.
[19:45:28] havenwood: yh: For example: https://gist.github.com/rkh/1476463
[19:45:40] havenwood: yh: Or: https://gist.github.com/maccman/2992949
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[19:48:37] havenwood: yh: Ah, Ruby on both sides?
[19:48:47] havenwood: Just reread what you wrote..
[19:50:37] ytti: Thomas-0725, i've not really done rails, but it's very dsly, so if your goal is to do sometihng in rails, i'd dive straight into rails, you will be able to get results
[19:50:47] ytti: and side steps may demotivate
[19:50:51] havenwood: yh: How many connections at once? Lots of data or just a little coming back? Just streaming in one direction?
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[19:54:51] Antiarc: DSL-y - lots of DSLs
[19:55:02] Antiarc: And I'd recommend getting profient with basic Ruby and then starting on Rails
[19:55:05] Antiarc: I wouldn't wait to master Ruby
[19:55:15] Antiarc: But you should know the object model, how blocks work, and how method_missing works
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[19:55:44] Antiarc: Being able to recognize the Ruby reasoning behind the Rails "magic" can be very helpful in troubleshooting
[19:55:44] ytti: generally, just do something
[19:55:58] ytti: trying to plan may just be stopping you from moving
[19:56:04] Antiarc: ^ this is good advice
[19:56:18] Antiarc: If you're hesitating because you think you don't know enough Ruby, just do it
[19:56:30] Antiarc: But if you feel like you have plenty of Just-Ruby stuff to keep you busy, finish that
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[20:09:39] Thomas-0725: def find(prefix); @entries.select {|word, definition| word.include?(prefix)}; end;
[20:09:52] Thomas-0725: That searches for prefix in all of word. How can I make it search for prefix only at the front of the word?
[20:10:03] Antiarc: workd.match(/^#{prefix}/)
[20:10:23] Thomas-0725: thanks! I didn't realize #{} worked within a regex
[20:10:23] Antiarc: Or word.start_with?(prefix)
[20:10:24] apeiros: Thomas-0725: start_with?
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[20:10:36] Antiarc: (I have an unhealthy tendency to jump to regexes)
[20:10:39] Thomas-0725: start_with is clearer, but certainly good to know about #{} within regex. :D
[20:10:44] Antiarc: Or word[prefix] == 0. I think
[20:10:51] apeiros: the regex solution probably needs Regex.escape
[20:10:56] Antiarc: No, [] won't do it, lemme check the API
[20:10:58] apeiros: depending on the intended behavior
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[20:11:18] apeiros: [] returns the substring
[20:11:27] Antiarc: yeah I was thinking it returned the start index
[20:11:30] apeiros: not an integer. so == 0 will always be false
[20:11:41] apeiros: =~ does that
[20:11:42] Antiarc: `word.index(prefix) == 0` would do it
[20:11:59] yorickpeterse: Is there a way to make throw/catch not bubble up? IIRC having something like `catch :foo do catch :foo do throw :foo end end` results in all "catch" blocks being executed
[20:12:12] Thomas-0725: Ruby has so many methods.
[20:12:38] apeiros: Thomas-0725: don't try java then???
[20:12:39] yorickpeterse: oh hm no, I'm just dumb
[20:12:44] Antiarc: yorickpeterse: Huh, I'ven ever even tried that - what's the bytecode say?
[20:12:49] yorickpeterse: ???( ?????????)???
[20:12:55] yorickpeterse: Antiarc: it says I'm dumb
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[20:13:49] Thomas-0725: I'm fine with all the methods. It's just funny. I am new to programming, but I did a small amount of C in high school, and iirc, C does not have very many built-in methods. Ruby seems to have a method for everything.
[20:14:35] Thomas-0725: Naturally, C is not object oriented, so there's that difference as well. I just hadn't anticipated the quantity of available methods when I started this adventure.
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[20:14:39] Antiarc: Well, Ruby's stdlib is very comprehensive. Ruby The Language is quite sparse :)
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[20:15:12] Thomas-0725: Ahhh, I suppose that's the distinction.
[20:15:14] Antiarc: C by itself is quite bare, similarly, but C + glibc is much more comprehensive
[20:15:30] Antiarc: Ruby just comes with batteries included :)
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[20:22:04] Antiarc: yorickpeterse: I'm guessing that it just jumps straight to the last-defined catch, eh? :)
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[20:25:40] havenwood: >> 'noe??l'.reverse
[20:25:41] ruboto: havenwood # => "l??eon" (https://eval.in/397189)
[20:26:24] canton7: welcome to the fun and games of unicode string manipulation :P
[20:27:20] Antiarc: >> 'noe??l'.bytes.reverse
[20:27:22] ruboto: Antiarc # => [108, 136, 204, 101, 111, 110] (https://eval.in/397190)
[20:27:33] Antiarc: >> 'noe??l'.bytes.reverse.pack("c*")
[20:27:34] ruboto: Antiarc # => "l\x88\xCCeon" (https://eval.in/397191)
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[20:28:09] Antiarc: >> 'noe??l'.chars
[20:28:10] ruboto: Antiarc # => ["n", "o", "e", "??", "l"] (https://eval.in/397192)
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[20:28:22] Antiarc: Madness, hysteria, unicode!
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[20:29:37] apeiros: >> require 'active_support/core_ext'
[20:29:38] ruboto: apeiros # => cannot load such file -- active_support/core_ext (LoadError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397193)
[20:29:40] nofxx: There's a gem for that, or activesupport's mb_chars.
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[20:30:04] apeiros: anyway, different normalizations. the given string is decomposed.
[20:30:19] apeiros: with AS, you can change it to composed using str.mb_chars.compose.to_s.reverse
[20:30:31] yorickpeterse: Antiarc: it goes to the inner most, my snippet was just flawed
[20:30:42] apeiros: @ havenwood ^
[20:31:11] canton7: >> "No??l".reverse
[20:31:12] ruboto: canton7 # => "l??oN" (https://eval.in/397201)
[20:31:17] canton7: ^ on the other hand...
[20:31:21] apeiros: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_equivalence
[20:31:25] apeiros: relevant WP article
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[20:31:36] havenwood: apeiros: aha
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[20:32:34] apeiros: oracle has a bug translating utf-8 to iso-8859-1 if the utf-8 uses NFD
[20:32:44] apeiros: they wanted us to pay them money in order to report it to them???
[20:32:51] apeiros: that's how oracle rolls.
[20:33:02] apeiros: fuck them.
[20:33:15] yorickpeterse: Don't have a $10000 support contract? Fuck you too bad
[20:33:42] yorickpeterse: http://i.imgur.com/jsCJ6.jpg basically
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[20:34:03] apeiros: looks about right
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[20:34:58] adaedra: >> [ "halla??", "hall??" ].map(&:reverse)
[20:34:59] ruboto: adaedra # => ["??allah", "??llah"] (https://eval.in/397202)
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[20:35:10] adaedra: that's crazy
[20:35:30] apeiros: limechat has trouble rendering those sequences. funny.
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[20:35:37] apeiros: terminal holds up better.
[20:35:47] adaedra: textual works fine
[20:35:51] yorickpeterse: oh lol wtf, does it lose characters there?
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[20:36:14] yorickpeterse: oh hm no, "?? isn't a double quote
[20:36:27] adaedra: well, it is, with a ring above
[20:36:33] yorickpeterse: Ah, it displays properly on the website
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[20:37:10] JMoir: Hey I'm getting a Boot error LoadError: cannot load such file -- sinatra/flash, can someone help please? I've installed all the gems, they are in my Gemfile... I can't figure it out https://gist.github.com/jamalmoir/3bc5b7d50b5acb7f14a4
[20:37:12] adaedra: come one, ruby should be able to do the difference between characters and codepoints better now
[20:37:43] yorickpeterse: JMoir: line 4 has a missing quote
[20:37:47] yorickpeterse: or is that a copy-paste error?
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[20:38:07] JMoir: Sorry I retyped it into the gist, that's a mistake, it's correct in the Gemfile
[20:38:23] yorickpeterse: You did run bundle install right?
[20:38:26] adaedra: JMoir: what's the command issuing the error?
[20:38:45] JMoir: yes I ran the bundle install, what do you mean adaedra?
[20:39:05] adaedra: well, the error is the result of a command? which is it?
[20:39:56] JMoir: I just get redirected to a page with that error on when I try to load the site. I haven't done anything with the gem yet
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[20:40:29] havenwood: JMoir: For example: bundle exec shotgun
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[20:41:05] adaedra: if you're on a web server, how did you run it?
[20:41:15] JMoir: and shotgun
[20:41:26] adaedra: tried with bundle exec rackup?
[20:41:27] JMoir: It's just running off my laptop
[20:41:38] JMoir: no I'll try that now
[20:41:42] yorickpeterse: See, you shouldn't be running with shotguns
[20:41:47] yorickpeterse: ??(???????????) hnnngggghhhh. :troll:
[20:41:56] yorickpeterse: I didn't know I actually had a poop emoji
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[20:42:25] yorickpeterse: in unrelated news, running "bundle install" for Gitlab takes forever
[20:42:30] yorickpeterse: they have a shit ton of Gems
[20:42:53] yorickpeterse: something something 99 problems
[20:43:50] nofxx: I know it's kinda strange but it'll work as a charm: Any idea to to print an ERB inside an ERB? Was trying: <%= '<%= bar %>' %> result I want is '<%= bar %>' w/o quotes
[20:43:54] yorickpeterse: I'm supposed to be working on Oga's Xpath compiler but I'm slacking off by checking if Gitlab runs on Rbx instead
[20:43:56] yorickpeterse: what a way of slacking off
[20:44:10] nofxx: or to skip one replace, would work too: something like: \\<%= bar %>
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[20:45:00] adaedra: wouldn't it require to run ERB twice
[20:45:08] nofxx: adaedra, exactly what I need
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[20:45:33] JMoir: rackup won't even start, updated gist with error https://gist.github.com/jamalmoir/3bc5b7d50b5acb7f14a4
[20:45:59] nofxx: here's the scenario: I got coffee/html app that is rake compiled to www/foo.js , all nice, but that foo.js I'm going to copy and replace the erb to 10 places
[20:46:09] yorickpeterse: well, at least it installs now
[20:46:16] yorickpeterse: now to go through the pain of getting this up and running
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[20:46:59] nofxx: adaedra, some vars I want replaced in the first render, others on the second... kidna crazy but'll work heh
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[20:48:05] havenwood: JMoir: uninitialized constant Tilt::CompileSite (NameError)
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[20:48:09] havenwood: JMoir: What version of Sinatra?
[20:49:18] JMoir: sinatra (1.4.6) ???
[20:49:20] JMoir: sinatra-base (1.4.0, 1.0)
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[20:50:18] nofxx: Ouch! so easy: <%%= bar %>
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[20:51:13] yorickpeterse: yeah ok fuck this, I'll look into this later this week
[20:51:17] yorickpeterse: E_TOO_MANY_SETUP_STEPS
[20:51:50] havenwood: JMoir: It looks to me like the sinatra-base gem was abandoned long ago in favor of just sinatra.
[20:52:20] havenwood: JMoir: Remove sinatra-base from your Gemfile and bundle.
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[20:52:40] JMoir: oh right, ok. Thanks, I'll try that
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[20:53:05] havenwood: JMoir: You can still `require 'sinatra/base'` since it's a Sinatra thing: https://github.com/sinatra/sinatra/blob/master/lib/sinatra/base.rb
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[20:54:10] shevy: apeiros sounds as if oracle is the modern day mafia
[20:54:28] apeiros: that's not even so far off reality
[20:54:45] apeiros: especially when you read /. today about oracle "mobbing" customers to adopt their cloud services.
[20:55:38] Nilium: "Mobbing?"
[20:56:09] Nilium: "Would be a shame if something happened to your filesystem when you're not using Oracle's filesystem."
[20:56:12] Nilium: That sort?
[20:57:40] JMoir: Thanks, rackup boots up now! Shotgun is still broken and can't find the file though. Is that normal for shotgun to do this?
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[21:16:44] havenwood: JMoir: Shotgun isn't in your Bundle? What's the error?
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[21:32:45] JMoir: havenwood: It's in this gist, it broke when I added Sinatra::Flash https://gist.github.com/jamalmoir/3bc5b7d50b5acb7f14a4
[21:33:00] yorickpeterse: https://gist.github.com/YorickPeterse/a8a6c9ba6be60d687bf8 hihi, writing Ruby with Ruby
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[21:34:16] havenwood: JMoir: The sinatra-flash gem's last update was over five years ago. That doesn't seem promising.
[21:35:15] Nilium: Such is Ruby gem maintenance
[21:35:24] JMoir: Ahm OK... I should really check that before I start using it, shouldn't I? Haha, oh well.
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[21:35:56] JMoir: Well, that's a good lesson to learn xD
[21:36:17] adaedra: did you look if it were in sinatra-contrib?
[21:36:50] JMoir: No, I found it in a google search and just went for it, my mistake
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[21:38:19] adaedra: eh, I just throw it like that, I don't know if it is in here
[21:38:31] adaedra: just know that there are many cool things in -contrib
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[21:39:40] JMoir: Thanks, I'll take a look. I'm still trying to get used to ruby and it's gems haha. I've never really used libraries in the same way before.
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[21:53:35] war_pigs: Hey guys/gals, I'm trying to plan my next career move. I'd very much would like to work as a consultant in one of the big ruby dev shops. What other big names can you think of to complete this list ThoughBot, ThoughtWorks, TopTal?
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[22:05:43] Thomas-0725: I want to define a method that accepts two numbers and then performs + - * or / on them, and which operation should be specified as a parameter. How do I do that?
[22:06:17] havenwood: war_pigs: Carbon Five, Hashrocket, Pivotal Labs, etc.
[22:06:21] Thomas-0725: In my head, it should be something like: def perform(num1, num2, operation); num1.operation(num2); end;
[22:07:19] havenwood: Thomas-0725: num1.public_send operation, num2
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[22:08:06] havenwood: >> 41.public_send :+ , 1
[22:08:07] ruboto: havenwood # => 42 (https://eval.in/397219)
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[22:08:47] havenwood: >> 41.public_send :+ , 1>> 41.public_send '+' , 1
[22:08:49] ruboto: havenwood # => /tmp/execpad-df4ea442aaf1/source-df4ea442aaf1:2: syntax error, unexpected tSTRING_BEG, expecting key ...check link for more (https://eval.in/397220)
[22:08:53] havenwood: >> 41.public_send '+' , 1
[22:08:54] ruboto: havenwood # => 42 (https://eval.in/397221)
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[22:10:36] havenwood: Thomas-0725: Or: [num1, num2].inject operator
[22:11:05] havenwood: >> [41, 1].inject :+
[22:11:06] ruboto: havenwood # => 42 (https://eval.in/397224)
[22:12:00] havenwood: Thomas-0725: Which also works with String, but in both cases it's converting them to Symbols anyways under the hood.
[22:12:38] havenwood: Thomas-0725: no prob, you're welcome
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[22:16:19] yh: havenwood: sorry I disappeared earlier. SSE sounds like a far better shout than WebSockets, don't know why I didn't just initially say that.
[22:16:25] yh: Interesting: didn't know it handled drop connections
[22:16:44] war_pigs: Thanks havenwood
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[22:17:07] yh: havenwood: also, there would literally be a max of 1 user. 99.99% of the time 0. :)
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[22:19:53] havenwood: war_pigs: You're welcome. Good luck, sounds like an adventure.
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[22:20:12] havenwood: yh: Nice, users complicate things - especially when there're lots of them.
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[22:35:58] rsiqueira: hi, i'm new on ruby and facing some problems parsing hashs.. i have, for instance, {"from"=>{"id"=>"111111111111", "name"=>"John Doe"}} and I only can access using quotes like in php data['from'] instead of data[:from].. how can i parse it to use data[:from]
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[22:36:31] apeiros: rsiqueira: :from and "from" are two different values
[22:36:46] djbender: rsiqueira: activesupport gem has a HashWithIndifferentAccess which is probably what you???re looking for.
[22:36:47] apeiros: just like 1 and "1" are different values
[22:37:00] djbender: what apeiros said as well.
[22:37:10] apeiros: djbender: that's the cargo cult solution???
[22:37:17] apeiros: IMO better to understand what it's all about
[22:37:27] rsiqueira: i'm parsing a JSON from a http request body
[22:37:31] djbender: yep. it is a solution that rails came up with.
[22:37:40] djbender: if you???re not using rails, i wouldn???t recommend it
[22:37:57] djbender: just use string keys if you???re doing something lightweight
[22:38:18] rsiqueira: i'm using rails haha
[22:38:25] rsiqueira: but thanks for the tip
[22:38:58] djbender: rails is supposed to parse params as HashWithIndifferentAccess so idk what???s going on there.
[22:39:19] nofxx: yeah, strange .. how you're doing the request rsiqueira ?
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[22:39:40] apeiros: it's not a params hash
[22:39:45] apeiros: they said it was a json response body
[22:39:50] djbender: some sort of manual json request i presume?
[22:39:57] rsiqueira: actually i have no idea how the gem does the request under the hood
[22:40:08] rsiqueira: because i'm using a facebook graph gem
[22:40:14] djbender: simple solution, use the string keys :)
[22:40:15] rsiqueira: to parse some event feeds
[22:40:43] rsiqueira: how it's the right name for data[:from] and data['from']
[22:40:50] apeiros: :from is a symbol
[22:40:51] rsiqueira: i would like to go deeper into it
[22:40:54] apeiros: 'from' is a string
[22:41:08] apeiros: both are passed in as an argument to the [] method
[22:41:15] apeiros: (yes, the method's name is actually [])
[22:42:04] rsiqueira: and both, symbol and strings, can used as keys in hashes
[22:42:13] apeiros: almost any object can
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[22:42:39] apeiros: the requirement is that it implements #hash and #eql? meaningfully. and since Object (from which almost all classes inherit) defines those already, almost all objects qualify.
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[22:46:10] nofxx: rsiqueira, now that you understand that you, feel free to use yourhash = yourhash.with_indifferent_access
[22:46:44] nofxx: rsiqueira, and you can work as you expected
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[22:56:49] apeiros: nofxx: but why would you?
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[22:57:05] apeiros: there's almost certainly no point to convert it to HWIA
[22:57:25] apeiros: also you'd have to probably even do it recursively???
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[22:58:29] apeiros: oh, .with_indifferent_access does it recursively. first part remains, though :)
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[23:04:42] nofxx: apeiros, First and foremost, damn I hate when I use a symbol and it's string. Also symbols are much easier to type and it looks way better.
[23:05:54] nofxx: also much less prone to error... ruby stuff will use symbol, yaml does but people :dont: use much , and keys will be symbols which confuses a lot
[23:06:08] toretore: oh no, strings :( :( :(
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[23:06:41] toretore: i wish ruby didn't have symbols
[23:06:44] apeiros: nofxx: if you used ruby for more than a month and are still confused when you come across symbol vs. string then you're doing something quite wrong???
[23:06:51] nofxx: toretore, that's an heresy
[23:07:00] nofxx: god made the symbols for a reason: hash keys
[23:07:20] apeiros: nofxx: that's wrong though. they were made for internal identification.
[23:08:02] nofxx: apeiros, I use ruby for years, and won't stop using symbols on my hashs
[23:08:23] apeiros: nobody says anything against using symbols as keys???
[23:08:30] nofxx: apeiros, which kind of identification? practical day to day use
[23:08:39] apeiros: if you've read this into the last few lines then I suggest you scroll back and read again.
[23:09:02] apeiros: nofxx: anything with a name in ruby creates a symbol of the same value.
[23:09:15] apeiros: ivars, lvars, methods, constants, globals, ???
[23:09:19] nofxx: apeiros, actually you didn't understand my rant. It's impossible to not 'be confused' when you're working with lots of gems and conventions
[23:09:31] apeiros: nofxx: yer doin it wrong, mate
[23:09:36] apeiros: it's trivial not to be confused.
[23:09:51] apeiros: different standards/conventions are annoying. not confusing.
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[23:10:30] nofxx: they are annoying because?
[23:11:39] apeiros: you have to either look up or remember what they use
[23:11:44] nofxx: ok, I'll put in your terms. It's annoying to have to check if the option or return or whatever is using symbol or string. HWIA make it less annoying.
[23:11:54] apeiros: but it's not like "OMIGOSH IS IT A STRING OR A SYMBOL??!? I'M SO CONFUSED!"
[23:12:18] apeiros: and even the annoying part is very limited.
[23:12:32] nofxx: and that's the whole point of ruby imho, programming that's fun
[23:12:43] apeiros: probably the total time I spent due to that the last couple of years is already less than this discussion
[23:13:02] apeiros: yeah. using string keys doesn't take the fun out of it???
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[23:16:31] apeiros: btw., since you seem to argue that symbols as keys are better than strings - hwia stores string keys, not symbols ;-p
[23:18:09] nofxx: apeiros, better for the coder, that's indifferent ;) in his/her point of view
[23:18:27] nofxx: apeiros, guess because a to_s is less prone to error than a to_sym?
[23:18:42] apeiros: no, because it's not vulnerable to memory exhaustion
[23:18:49] apeiros: only ruby 2.2+ started to GC symbols
[23:18:54] nofxx: apeiros, ah I see
[23:19:23] Bloodshot: I think that symbols and strings should be the same thing internally, personally, but I don't really have a strong opinion on it.
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[23:22:15] apeiros: Bloodshot: that makes no sense.
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[23:23:57] Bloodshot: This is what I mean: http://t-a-w.blogspot.com/2015/06/ruby-3-should-merge-strings-and-symbols.html
[23:24:08] apeiros: (note: toretore's suggestion to not have symbols to begin with makes sense - but same implementation for symbols and strings makes none whatsoever)
[23:24:48] shevy: yay for simplifying ruby! think of the children \o/
[23:25:16] toretore: wasn't there talk of making Symbol a subclass of String for 2.x?
[23:25:49] shevy: is that blog post accurate?
[23:25:52] shevy: "In Ruby 1.x strings were just String objects"
[23:26:16] shevy: I mean symbols existed back in 1.x too right?
[23:27:13] shevy: "Look at any Ruby significant codebase today and you see to_s and to_sym scattered everywhere, nasty nonsense like HashWithIndifferentAccess and friends"
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[23:27:36] shevy: and the latter is from rails isn't it - though I concur that it would be better to not need to have it anyway
[23:27:38] Bloodshot: I think he means that nobody used Symbols back then
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[23:28:20] shevy: but 1.x includes 1.8.x right?
[23:28:29] shevy: perhaps he means 1.0
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[23:29:01] Bloodshot: I read it as 1.0 - around 1.7/8ish
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[23:29:19] shevy: I wish I would have used ruby before the 1.8.x era
[23:29:44] toretore: symbols have been there for a long time, at least 1.6, and people have been using them since then
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[23:30:00] toretore: the problem is people started overusing them
[23:30:38] Bloodshot: I think it's kind of orthogonal to the point the post is making, that :something should just be a syntax thing, and not be a completely different object than "something"
[23:30:38] shevy: they are also easier to type: :foo versus 'foo' :)
[23:30:42] Bloodshot: Which I generally agree with
[23:31:00] shevy: oh I agree with it anyway, for reason of simplicity alone
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[23:35:56] BStheHD: Hey, ruby is my first ever programming language and I've been learning it these past few days.. I'm interested in developing a game with these skills and I wanna know where to start?
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[23:37:33] shevy: start by describing the game
[23:38:08] shevy: then translate that into ruby structures, like class Player ... and what not
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[23:38:47] BStheHD: Idk what kind of game yet, but I see..
[23:39:07] BStheHD: I know there's RPG Maker but you don't really need to know ruby for that right?
[23:39:16] mozzarella: look for bindings for sdl/sfml/etc.
[23:39:54] mozzarella: ruby is probably not the best language for writing a game, to be honest
[23:40:13] Bloodshot: Are you looking to program just 'any game' so you can practise programming? It might be easier to make something text-based, then.
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[23:40:32] yh: All the programming languages suck
[23:40:34] yh: That's why I'm moving away from pure software development
[23:40:53] Bloodshot: That seems like an odd thing to post in #ruby
[23:41:20] yh: Your observations do not concur?
[23:42:00] BStheHD: yeah I've heard.. I'm using Aptana Studio as my script editor and all and I installed the gosu gem to vast the library for 2D game development
[23:43:46] shevy: BStheHD well I'd would start with something simpler
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[23:43:56] shevy: I found games to demand a lot of time invested
[23:44:12] shevy: do you use linux?
[23:44:19] BStheHD: right that's true
[23:44:32] BStheHD: I use windows
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[23:44:58] shevy: start with php
[23:45:03] shevy: you'll come to ruby lateron anyway :)
[23:45:11] yh: don't advocate that please
[23:45:17] shevy: I went that route!
[23:45:23] shevy: ok that is not true
[23:45:30] shevy: I was already using linux when I started with php
[23:45:30] BStheHD: so far I can write simple stuff like a histogram that counts repeating words in any phrase you type
[23:45:48] yh: the legacy mess is still not cleared up yet, let's not add any more to the pile than need be
[23:45:53] shevy: so you know how to obtain user input
[23:46:05] yh: (that is, the php ecosystem)
[23:46:27] BStheHD: yup all that gets.chomp stuff! :p
[23:47:08] shevy: well then you could actually start with the user interface / menu to your game
[23:47:18] shevy: but as long as you don't know what kind of game you even want to write, that sounds really hard
[23:47:29] yh: Let's face it, nobody writes Ruby applications for desktops. It probably isn't responsible to recommend doing so to this novice
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[23:48:20] shevy: I write everything in ruby!
[23:48:33] yh: And does that include desktop applications?
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[23:49:09] Bloodshot: I don't think that has any bearing, Ruby is fine for general-purpose low-performance programming, and it seems like his goal is to learn
[23:49:27] BStheHD: people say it's hard and that ruby isn't a powerful language, but isn't it supposed to be very efficient?
[23:49:48] yh: It's not efficient in programming language terms. Nobody writes high performance games in it
[23:49:52] Bloodshot: It's efficient for the programmer
[23:50:00] shevy: yh yeah - this was the latest one, for my exam-questions http://shevegen.square7.ch/screenshot.png - it looks like crap, but I use fluxbox and I am too lazy and too incompetent to make it look good (I suppose I could switch to gtk3 ... but I am lazy)
[23:50:05] Bloodshot: But it's an interpreted language, and isn't designed to run 'fast'
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[23:50:27] yh: shevy: neat. I like your style
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[23:50:50] shevy: when I finished it, I realized that the commandline interface was better :\ :/
[23:51:19] yh: Bit of ncurses would have done ya
[23:51:37] shevy: I tried to get friendly with ncurses
[23:51:46] shevy: I don't know what it is but its API drives me nuts
[23:52:11] yh: There are enough abstraction layers available for it though
[23:53:01] shevy: BStheHD ruby is also rather complex in that there is a lot of stuff; it's also very adaptable to your own programming style
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[23:53:41] yh: If you are the kind of person that likes to be institutionalised, bound by clear rules, and not need to think very much,
[23:53:44] yh: go Java
[23:53:50] yh: Ruby is freedom
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[23:54:52] BStheHD: so is it nearly impossible to develop.. let's say a game like doodle jump in ruby?
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[23:55:33] shevy: you can develop it just fine
[23:55:35] yh: Nah you could do it.
[23:55:39] yh: I'm not sure I'd want to, though
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[23:55:48] shevy: like via gosu: https://www.libgosu.org/
[23:55:55] yh: Ruby's game-related ecosystem is probably nowhere near as advanced as those of other languages
[23:56:00] yh: Even though it does have some solid libraries
[23:56:03] shevy: if you feel motivated and have the time then go for it, but it will be quite a lot of work
[23:56:03] yh: (like gosu)
[23:56:09] carpeliam: regex question: say I have the text ???Frank 123 Robinson??? and I match against /\w+ (?:\d+\s)?\w+/, but I don???t want the 123 to show up in the match group - what can I do?
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[23:57:16] shevy: carpeliam perhaps you could add two capture groups?
[23:57:24] shevy: and discard the first one or something
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[23:57:58] carpeliam: shevy: it might be something like ???Frank Lloyd 123 Wright??? or ???Frank 123 Lloyd Wright???
[23:58:19] carpeliam: no idea where the number might show up (it???s a line number, but part of the text)
[23:58:58] havenwood: carpeliam: What's the return value you'd like?
[23:59:21] carpeliam: havenwood: ???Frank Lloyd Wright???, or ???Frank Robinson??? in the earlier example
[23:59:51] carpeliam: my regex right now is more like (?:(?:\s+|\n{2,3}\d{1,2}\s*)[A-Z]\w+)+