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#ruby - 07 August 2015

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[00:00:24] fullofcaffeine: has joined #ruby
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[00:01:19] Ox0dea: > You shoot the gun, but the bullet gets trapped in the IO monad.
[00:02:45] baweaver: what an uplifting thought
[00:03:11] dfockler: You shot 'service restart sshd', you can't shoot anymore
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[00:05:02] charliesome: does anyone have any opinions on Net::DNS vs Resolv (which is built-in) vs just shelling out to dig
[00:05:39] charliesome: looking at some code that uses Net::DNS, but I'm not sure if there's any reason to use that gem over the Resolv stdlib
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[00:08:01] drbrain: Resolv lets you do everything, but the API is not the best
[00:08:19] diegoviola: why I can't have a constant like this in a method: class Foo; def bar; NUMBERS = %w(1 2 3 4 5); end end?
[00:08:21] drbrain: I've used Resolv to work around broken DNS resolution in cloud stuff, and to do MDNS resolution
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[00:09:53] charliesome: drbrain: oh interesting
[00:09:54] drbrain: charliesome: if you don't trust getaddrinfo() why would you trust `dig`?
[00:10:10] Ox0dea: diegoviola: You can, but constant redefinition kind of defeats the purpose.
[00:10:11] charliesome: drbrain: need to query for specific record types
[00:10:21] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Note well that you're only being warned, not triggering an error.
[00:10:36] diegoviola: Ox0dea: how I'm redefining it/
[00:10:43] Mon_Ouie: No, you can't because of Ruby's syntax rules
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[00:10:49] Mon_Ouie: >> def x; A = 2; end
[00:10:50] ruboto: Mon_Ouie # => /tmp/execpad-3927fc81f292/source-3927fc81f292:2: dynamic constant assignment ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413376)
[00:10:54] drbrain: charliesome: the nice thing about Resolv is that it doesn't add a dependency, but Net::DNS' API might be nicer (I haven't used it though)
[00:11:06] diegoviola: Ox0dea: no, I'm getting an error
[00:11:16] diegoviola: SyntaxError: (eval):2: dynamic constant assignment
[00:11:23] Ox0dea: Yeah, sorry about that.
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[00:11:34] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Just stick the constant on the class.
[00:11:35] charliesome: drbrain: yeah agreed
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[00:11:43] charliesome: that said the code already uses Net::DNS so I'm just gonna leave it be
[00:12:00] diegoviola: and isn't %w just the same as declaring the array with NUMBERS = [1,2,3,4,5] ?
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[00:12:08] diegoviola: so I don't see how I'm redefining it?
[00:12:14] Mon_Ouie: No, %w is array of strings
[00:12:17] diegoviola: Ox0dea: why do I have to add it to the class?
[00:12:24] loincloth: diegoviola: i think you are caught up partly on a wording choice
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[00:12:38] loincloth: it maybe be the first time it was defined but because it was declared in a method body you are getting that error
[00:12:46] diegoviola: loincloth: ?
[00:12:50] loincloth: not sure on that, though
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[00:13:02] mwlang: Ox0dea: the fingerprint is developer???s choice more so than algo. basically what I have is a hash with say 200 keys. They???re soap messages that have been turned into hashes with the Nori gem. The developers of the exchange partner didn???t really follow Soap specs which says only one complex datatype definition per named data type and namespace.
[00:13:06] diegoviola: loincloth: what do you mean?
[00:13:20] Ox0dea: diegoviola: The constant would get redefined every time you called the method.
[00:13:24] loincloth: sorry if i'm off base, but i thought you were confused by it saying you are "redefining" when you haven't defined it before
[00:13:42] Ox0dea: That said, you can use Object.const_set if you simply *must* define a constant in a method, which you really oughtn't.
[00:14:01] Mon_Ouie: And constants can only exist inside modules (including classes). There's no such thing as a constant local to a method or something.
[00:14:50] mwlang: So, what I did was look for keys that distinguished one from the other and let the Factory choose the right Ruby object class to instantiate and populate. I found that out of 200 keys, I only needed 4 or 5 to correctly identify which Ruby class to instantiate for the hash.
[00:15:37] diegoviola: loincloth: I haven't defined the constant before
[00:15:47] diegoviola: I was trying to create a constant with some words in it
[00:15:47] loincloth: i believe you :D
[00:15:49] mwlang: I just had the idea as I was looking at the implementation to automatically scan for every object with a fingerprint class method and check that each one is unique to the other.
[00:15:51] diegoviola: inside a method
[00:16:01] diegoviola: so constants shouldn't be inside methods?
[00:16:02] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Why do you think it needs to live in the method?
[00:16:13] loincloth: diegoviola: it's not the best design
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[00:16:22] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Defining a literal constant in a method is, as you've discovered, a syntax error.
[00:16:27] diegoviola: Ox0dea: why it needs to live inside a class?
[00:16:30] Ox0dea: Dynamically doing so just attaches the constant to the surrounding module.
[00:16:57] loincloth: diegoviola: i'm not sure all the reasons but i think at the least it just violates semantics to do it that way
[00:17:12] Ox0dea: diegoviola: If you think about it, method-local constants don't make a great deal of sense.
[00:17:14] diegoviola: I want to know the reason why it needs to be in a class and not a method
[00:17:16] loincloth: as noted, you can actually dynamically define constants, but it's not a feature you should be looking to very often
[00:17:26] shevy: constants that can be changed lateron also don't make sense
[00:17:29] loincloth: you might want an instance variable instead, for example
[00:17:30] Ox0dea: diegoviola: It's not *constant* if it gets a "new" value every time the method is invoked.
[00:17:42] shevy: then why can it be changed?
[00:17:47] Ox0dea: Because Ruby.
[00:17:54] shevy: Because we can.
[00:18:03] diegoviola: %w is just a shorthand for defining a array of words? it won't redefine the array or anything, right?
[00:18:20] Radar: diegoviola: try it and find out :D
[00:18:22] shevy: >> %w( cat dog mouse )
[00:18:23] ruboto: shevy # => ["cat", "dog", "mouse"] (https://eval.in/413377)
[00:18:25] Ox0dea: diegoviola: https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/f56f47567971ade33d9c
[00:18:31] diegoviola: Radar: right
[00:18:39] Ox0dea: diegoviola: You're getting hung up on syntax rather than semantics.
[00:19:37] diegoviola: Ox0dea: not hung up at all
[00:19:50] diegoviola: just got confused about constant in class vs methods
[00:20:02] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Then why're you talking about %w arrays?
[00:20:02] diegoviola: works fine now that I moved my constant to the class
[00:20:14] diegoviola: Ox0dea: because someone mentioned redefinition and it confused me
[00:20:24] diegoviola: Ox0dea: but it's clear now, I tried it in pry
[00:20:34] loincloth: well fwiw i mentioned it because your mentioned it via the error message you got :P
[00:20:39] Ox0dea: >> $ids = []; def foo; bar = %w[a b c]; $ids << bar.object_id end; foo; foo; $ids # diegoviola
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[00:20:40] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [543776550, 543776510] (https://eval.in/413378)
[00:20:44] loincloth: but i'm sorry if i hurt more than i helped
[00:20:55] Ox0dea: diegoviola: That's what I meant about "redefinition"; the %w[a b c] is a different object every time the method gets called.
[00:21:07] Ox0dea: Thus demonstrating the futility of method-local "constants".
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[00:23:47] Ox0dea: diegoviola: In the event you're ever looking to emulate C's `static` keyword to only initialize an object the first time through a method, you can use `@ivar ||= foo`.
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[00:28:09] loincloth: diegoviola: sweet name btw :D
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[00:41:30] diegoviola: loincloth: ?
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[00:48:56] loincloth: diegoviola: nevermind
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[00:55:04] hays: is there a simple/small web framework in ruby similar to pocoo/flask
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[00:55:51] havenwood: hays: Sinatra is quite popular (I think it inspired Flask) or Roda is a very, very nice alternative.
[00:56:15] havenwood: hays: https://github.com/jeremyevans/roda
[00:58:12] diegoviola: Roda is very cool indeed
[01:02:20] pontiki: hihi again
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[01:07:53] shevy: yo pontiki - what greatness will you code today?
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[01:11:14] pontiki: nothing today
[01:11:30] pontiki: i'm working out some architecture
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[01:18:06] miah: sinatra is neat so far
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[01:19:20] shevy: screenshots!
[01:19:47] shevy: I am still at a level of noobness with sinatra... I tried to make a site that allows one to connect via a ftp-interface... so far I semi-failed
[01:20:46] miah: i am writing a user/group management interface for ldap
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[01:34:38] shevy: hmm I am trying to modify Gtk
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[01:35:23] shevy: I have code that looks like this: http://pastie.org/10334740
[01:35:44] shevy: I need to modify the original initialize to call the specific custom method
[01:36:04] shevy: but when I re-define initialize, I get a warning: gtk_module.rb:42: warning: method redefined; discarding old initialize
[01:36:11] shevy: any idea how to get rid of the warning?
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[01:39:01] diegoviola: shevy: write GTK::Entry instead
[01:39:47] diegoviola: I don't want to be pedantic, but GTK is an acronym
[01:39:53] pontiki: does Rack speak FTP??
[01:40:46] havenwood: pontiki: nope
[01:41:10] havenwood: diegoviola: Being pedantic, it's not an acronym it's an initialism.
[01:41:13] pontiki: i didn't think so
[01:41:30] havenwood: diegoviola: It isn't pronounced.
[01:41:35] pontiki: shevy: how were you trying to get sinatra to connect via FTP?
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[01:42:58] shevy: pontiki via my ftp wrapper; I don't know how to keep track of persistent data though, like "remain logged in" and continue to issue commands via that webinterface, and display that new thing in-page. I assume I may have to use javascript? no idea right now
[01:43:22] shevy: diegoviola did you use ruby-gtk before?
[01:44:45] pontiki: shevy: i'm woefully confused. you have an FTP wrapper that emulates ftpd?
[01:44:56] diegoviola: havenwood: I'm confused now
[01:44:58] shevy: nono, I am using the ruby ftp stuff
[01:45:11] Aeyrix: shevy: Yeah you're gonna need AJAX or something.
[01:45:12] shevy: it works fine from the commandline and via ruby-gnome so far
[01:45:21] Aeyrix: Because you're gonna need a backend-ish to keep a persistent connection via KEEPALIVE.
[01:45:24] havenwood: diegoviola: An acronym is pronounced. So like NATO.
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[01:45:39] havenwood: diegoviola: While an initialism isn't. So like IBM.
[01:45:53] diegoviola: I'm still confused
[01:45:55] havenwood: diegoviola: I-B-M
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[01:46:02] Aeyrix: >not pronouncing IBM "ibem"
[01:46:03] havenwood: diegoviola: naahtoh
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[01:46:45] havenwood: fermented soy beans..
[01:47:16] pontiki: i'll see your natto and raise you a can of surstromming
[01:47:26] havenwood: pontiki: natto is so gross!
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[01:47:43] pontiki: surstromming is registered as the worst smell ever
[01:47:44] shevy: diegoviola you can be pedantic - however had, if you write GTK::Entry then it would not work. If you would know ruby-gtk then you would know why, so I assume you never used it
[01:47:52] havenwood: pontiki: i believe
[01:49:05] pontiki: natto is tactical; surstromming is strategic
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[01:49:33] pontiki: mind you , i never want to be near either one when they're opened
[01:49:37] diegoviola: shevy: I never used it
[01:49:50] diegoviola: `/j ##english
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[01:51:52] diegoviola: crap I made a mistake in a git commit message
[01:52:00] diegoviola: about acronyms and initialism
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[01:54:56] havenwood: diegoviola: Out-pedanted you!
[01:55:28] diegoviola: that's fine at least I've learned something
[01:56:10] wafflemachine: How beneficial to my upcoming compsci degree (going into freshman year of college) is spending a weekend hacking around with rails?
[01:56:48] pontiki: a weekend? and then what?
[01:57:05] sevenseacat: you won't learn much in a weekend
[01:57:44] pontiki: no learning is wasted, though
[01:58:07] wafflemachine: It's amazing how powerful rails is
[01:58:12] pontiki: quanifying benefit for that is quite impossible though
[01:58:23] wafflemachine: like actually, I'm used to Node-based crap
[01:58:28] wafflemachine: and python-django/flask
[01:58:45] wafflemachine: This gives me so much flexibility and customizability
[01:59:00] pontiki: i'd be surprised if you used any of those in comp sci courses, though
[01:59:28] wafflemachine: yeah... I know :/
[02:00:14] wafflemachine: it gives me more leeway to ask to test out of intro, though. Only got a 3 on the AP test which means I actually have to take the class...
[02:01:14] pontiki: i guess the question throws me off. who *cares* if it's of benefit to your comp sci degree? it's worth it anyway
[02:01:46] wafflemachine: I mean, will it help me with any core concepts of compsci?
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[02:01:51] pontiki: mainly cause it's *fun*
[02:02:09] pontiki: not any more than the other things you mentioned
[02:02:12] sevenseacat: it doesnt relate to 'core concepts of comp sci'
[02:02:29] pontiki: core concepts are algorithms, data structures
[02:02:35] pontiki: representations, abstractions
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[02:03:17] pontiki: architecture, composition, ...
[02:03:22] pontiki: gods, it's been decades
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[02:03:48] wafflemachine: Sounds like I'm in for a party...
[02:04:43] pontiki: one of the early core classes in my program, called "fundamentals of computer science" was entirely about functional decomposition
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[02:05:18] pontiki: i.e., how to break problems into smaller and smaller bits until you have a set of easily solvable components
[02:09:03] heftig: methodology is a big part of any sci degree
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[02:09:35] wafflemachine: What do you mean by methodology?
[02:09:44] wafflemachine: Like, how one codes?
[02:09:50] wafflemachine: how one abstracts things?
[02:09:53] wafflemachine: all of the above?
[02:10:09] Radar: Programming: It Makes You Think.
[02:10:32] heftig: learning how to solve problems generally; not solving certain problems
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[02:12:38] heftig: how to solve problems, conduct experiments, evaluate results, write papers
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[02:23:52] Aeyrix: yes hello
[02:24:15] Radar: !mute MIGGERS_SUCK
[02:24:16] ruboto: +q MIGGERS_SUCK!*@*
[02:24:16] ruboto: -o ruboto
[02:25:23] Ox0dea: ACTION is implementing some of the GNU coreutils in LOLCODE.
[02:25:49] Ox0dea: It's a shame "LOLUtils" is the name of a virus. :/
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[02:28:21] wafflemachine: Ox0dea: LOLTools?
[02:28:37] wafflemachine: ... I can't do names.
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[02:29:22] fenjamin: /msg NickServ identify a#%zS*S*b
[02:29:38] Ox0dea: /msg nickserv identify hunter2
[02:29:41] Radar: Big whoops.
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[02:30:02] fenjamin: don't you touch my reputation!!
[02:30:06] wafflemachine: fenjamin: consider changing your password asap
[02:30:10] al2o3-cr: hi rublings
[02:30:12] Radar: Someone didn't change their password in time.
[02:30:27] fenjamin_: has joined #ruby
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[02:30:41] fenjamin_: do you have any idea how hard i worked for this reputation on irc
[02:30:49] fenjamin_: how dare you touch this username
[02:30:53] fenjamin: Look at all this free reputation!
[02:30:55] Radar: fenjamin_: You should change your original nick's password.
[02:30:59] fenjamin_: hours! hours! on irc!
[02:31:13] wafflemachine: fenjamin_, just do /msg nickserv help
[02:31:20] wafflemachine: there are a few commands to help you reclaim your account
[02:31:31] fenjamin_: wafflemachine i'm just joking. its a username. it doesn't matter.
[02:31:33] fenjamin: But then I'll become a ghost...
[02:31:44] Radar: fenjamin_: Well done for not using the same password on GitHub.
[02:31:48] wafflemachine: There are some people who take IRC far too seriously
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[02:31:55] Radar: This is fun.
[02:31:58] fenjamin_: fenjamin knows more than me
[02:32:13] Ox0dea: has joined #ruby
[02:32:15] fenjamin_: point i'm trying to make!
[02:32:18] ruboto: this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!
[02:32:18] wafflemachine: Radar: see if his FB username is the same
[02:32:34] Radar: wafflemachine: Na I should do real work instead :)
[02:32:37] Radar: Ox0dea: wb
[02:32:40] fenjamin_: have at it. i'm the lifelock guy without lifelock
[02:33:00] wafflemachine: fenjamin_ that's... not a good thing
[02:33:32] fenjamin_: so the cs solution to the pretty right triangle where for every star printed on a new row a space is subtracted
[02:33:45] tuxwaffle: Wait, what?
[02:33:50] Radar: ACTION is also confused
[02:34:22] tuxwaffle: Sounds like you need more recursion
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[02:34:50] Ox0dea: >> 42.times { |i| puts ?**i }
[02:34:51] ruboto: Ox0dea # => ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413382)
[02:34:54] Ox0dea: fenjamin_: You mean that?
[02:35:20] al2o3-cr: hi Ox0dea :)
[02:35:39] tuxwaffle: Is that... ruby?
[02:35:50] fenjamin_: yes. i'm trying to read this correctly
[02:35:51] Radar: tuxwaffle: It sure is.
[02:36:00] Aeyrix: i got an alert about that nickserv pass
[02:36:04] Aeyrix: i collect them :^)
[02:36:22] al2o3-cr: Radar: Aeyrix sevenseacat
[02:36:29] tuxwaffle: Man, I've been playing with Python for too long..
[02:36:29] Aeyrix: al2o3-cr: Yes?
[02:36:34] Radar: al2o3-cr: hello.
[02:36:35] tuxwaffle: I need to learn ruby hacking :D
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[02:36:45] sevenseacat: al2o3-cr: good morning
[02:36:48] Aeyrix: I need to go home.
[02:36:57] al2o3-cr: morning all :)
[02:37:58] fenjamin_: ok this solution looks a bit beyond my scope
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[02:38:22] fenjamin_: i have to create a method
[02:38:46] al2o3-cr: what's going on?
[02:39:05] Radar: fenjamin_: maybe take just one line to explain what you're trying to do?
[02:39:11] Ox0dea: fenjamin_: ? raised to the power n is n asterisks; what's the problem?
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[02:39:42] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "*****" (https://eval.in/413383)
[02:40:16] ruboto: this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!
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[02:40:22] sevenseacat: al2o3-cr: no it's not
[02:40:25] Aeyrix: al2o3-cr can you please stop doing that
[02:40:27] Radar: al2o3-cr: You sure do like claiming that something is offtopic when it's not.
[02:40:28] Aeyrix: fucking hell, it's obnoxious
[02:40:53] fenjamin_: write a method that prints * for n number of rows
[02:41:00] Aeyrix: I'm fairly sure that's by far and away the most-said thing by you, to be honest.
[02:41:02] BraddPitt: literally getting shit on
[02:41:09] Radar: BraddPitt: not literally
[02:41:35] BraddPitt: yes Radar thank you for correcting me :^)
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[02:41:53] fenjamin_: while i want to print * for n number of rows, I also want to i guess remove? " " for n number of rows
[02:41:56] al2o3-cr: billy bull shit
[02:41:58] Ox0dea: "Literally" literally means "figuratively" now.
[02:42:02] Ox0dea: English a shit.
[02:42:08] Radar: !mute al2o3-cr
[02:42:09] ruboto: +q al2o3-cr!*@*
[02:42:09] ruboto: -o ruboto
[02:42:18] Aeyrix: n i c e m e m e
[02:42:57] Ox0dea: fenjamin_: How do spaces come into it?
[02:43:07] Radar: fenjamin_: Maybe give us an example of what you wnat?
[02:43:17] Ox0dea: >> 42.times { |i| puts ?**i } # Radar
[02:43:19] ruboto: Ox0dea # => ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413384)
[02:43:27] Ox0dea: fenjamin_ has said that that's what he's trying to do.
[02:43:33] Aeyrix: Has he tried doing
[02:43:37] Aeyrix: 42.times { |i| puts ?**i }
[02:43:45] Ox0dea: That won't work.
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[02:43:47] fenjamin_: that's above my understanding
[02:43:47] Aeyrix: because I hear that works well when you're trying to emulate the behaviour of `42.times { |i| puts ?**i }`.
[02:44:03] fenjamin_: i've got to make it look like i'm studying code. unless someone could explain it?
[02:44:05] Aeyrix: fenjamin_: You want an explanation of that one-liner?
[02:44:06] fenjamin_: i'm beginning.
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[02:44:23] Radar: !unmute al2o3-cr
[02:44:24] ruboto: -q al2o3-cr!*@*
[02:44:24] ruboto: -o ruboto
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[02:44:33] fenjamin_: basic for loops and and conditionals
[02:44:44] fenjamin_: i'm happy to jump ahead as long as i can defend what i create.
[02:44:52] fenjamin_: people are holding me accountable.
[02:45:05] ruboto: I don't know anything about popcorn
[02:45:09] fenjamin_: i would enjoy using that solution but i need to explain it and most likely produce results consistent with this solution
[02:45:12] fenjamin_: which would be incredible.
[02:45:48] Ox0dea: You really shouldn't use that solution, mind.
[02:45:59] Aeyrix: https://gist.github.com/Aeyrix/b6a5d58abad492991e9d
[02:46:01] Aeyrix: Does this make sense to you?
[02:46:32] Aeyrix: The bigger block outputs this: https://eval.in/413386
[02:46:36] Aeyrix: Basically the same, but uses X's.
[02:46:44] Aeyrix: Identical to swapping "?*" to "X" in Ox0dea's code.
[02:47:14] Ox0dea: Objection! Misleading quotation.
[02:47:23] Aeyrix: doot doot dootdootdootdoot
[02:47:25] fenjamin_: i really like that
[02:47:33] Ox0dea: > thank mr skeltal
[02:47:44] Aeyrix: Nah it was an old mp3 from Tumblr which, to my dismay, I lost.
[02:47:46] fenjamin_: can i use this in a method body with a parameter?
[02:47:50] Aeyrix: Yeah sure.
[02:48:06] fenjamin_: they're going to think i'm jack and the beanstalk
[02:48:12] fenjamin_: "where did you get these magic beans??"
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[02:49:48] fenjamin_: i always wonder if there's a citation standard in programming someone is honorable and genuinely talented or a scriptkiddy
[02:50:05] fenjamin_: *so people can understand if something is honorable and genuinely talented or a scriptkiddy
[02:50:13] Aeyrix: There is, more or less.
[02:50:18] Aeyrix: You can tell when they understand the code they are writing.
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[02:50:49] Aeyrix: fenjamin_: https://eval.in/413391
[02:50:58] Aeyrix: Does *that* code make sense to you, without comments?
[02:51:33] Aeyrix: You said you wanted it in a method body. :^)
[02:51:47] fenjamin_: thats pseudocode IN the code code!
[02:51:54] Ox0dea: It's just code, mate.
[02:51:55] Aeyrix: Nope, that's just Ruby. :^)
[02:52:21] Aeyrix: https://eval.in/413393
[02:52:32] fenjamin_: ok im going to use the solution but this will come back around
[02:52:41] Ox0dea: fenjamin_: 2 * 3 == 2 + 2 + 2 == 6, 'x' * 3 == 'x' + 'x' + 'x' == 'xxx'
[02:52:45] Ox0dea: It's really quite intuitive.
[02:52:48] Aeyrix: Ox0dea: fuckin stop
[02:53:08] Ox0dea: Stop explaining what String#* does?
[02:53:12] fenjamin_: i still need my signature style!
[02:53:17] saddad: /query bougyman
[02:53:19] Aeyrix: [ laughtrack ]
[02:53:24] saddad: /query bougyman question
[02:53:31] bougyman: that didn't work so well.
[02:53:32] fenjamin_: this place is like a morning zoo in text
[02:53:40] Ox0dea: /query saddad What are you doing?
[02:53:54] Aeyrix: /query i am not good with computer ples 2 help
[02:54:06] bougyman: / Ox0dea wtf, yo?
[02:54:28] Ox0dea: bougyman: People don't think it be like it is.
[02:54:41] Aeyrix: but it do
[02:54:48] Ox0dea: Do it, doe?
[02:55:05] Aeyrix: think it do, yo
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[02:56:18] Aeyrix: https://twitter.com/MOOMANiBE/status/629394287449346048
[02:56:20] fenjamin_: yo i go commando EVERY DAY
[02:56:32] fenjamin_: my gangsta rhyme line for bohemian lifestyle
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[02:58:12] fenjamin_: that's my only line
[02:58:19] Ox0dea: Minecraft > /r/outside confirmed.
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[02:58:35] fenjamin_: which is better said for python
[02:59:08] al2o3-cr: fenjamin_: isthat you?
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[03:00:23] al2o3-cr: it's a bit dodgy fenjamin_ never spoke before, hmmm....
[03:01:04] al2o3-cr: must think ya daft!
[03:02:33] casadei_: has joined #ruby
[03:03:31] fenjamin_: it would be wonderful to scope an entire song from that one line
[03:03:55] omegamike: has joined #ruby
[03:05:42] fenjamin_: "but yo im lookin hungry with my hair in a bun/but spend my time starving because i'm looking for something that smells good and cant escape my own odor"
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[03:08:07] tuxwaffle: Wait, so, I know a bit of ruby. What should I code (somewhat practical) to get my skills from whack (bad) to whack (good)
[03:08:23] tuxwaffle: Coming from Python with codecademy Ruby experience
[03:08:50] fenjamin_: ok ask for an extension!
[03:09:53] fenjamin_: codewars.com
[03:09:58] fenjamin_: rubymonk.com
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[03:10:26] al2o3-cr: Ox0dea: lol
[03:10:48] Aeyrix: What the hell is going on in this channel?
[03:11:04] al2o3-cr: Ox0dea: is trolling
[03:11:09] Aeyrix: Are any of you actually speaking English, or just in incoherent image macros?
[03:11:15] Aeyrix: Without the images.
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[03:12:57] willywos: no speako any englisho
[03:13:16] al2o3-cr: When English is good, easy to spot
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[03:13:50] fenjamin_: ok back to research. you've been great!
[03:14:56] sevenseacat: mi ne parolas la anglan.
[03:15:11] Aeyrix: ACTION is not getting involved in language wars.
[03:15:42] al2o3-cr: tuxwaffle: come on!
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[03:21:15] tuxwaffle: al2o3-cr: que?
[03:21:22] tuxwaffle: no hablo ingles, hombre...
[03:21:31] arooni-mobile__: has left #ruby: ("Leaving")
[03:21:44] al2o3-cr: yeah, homie
[03:22:04] tuxwaffle: Tried codewars with python
[03:22:17] tuxwaffle: realized I like verbose, clear code more than one liners
[03:22:24] tuxwaffle: got schooled by one-liners
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[03:23:34] willywos: but what about javascript
[03:23:36] al2o3-cr: tuxwaffle: inconito heh
[03:23:59] tuxwaffle: willywoos: I have a particular disdain for JS
[03:24:06] willywos: what! undefined isn't even a function
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[03:24:22] tuxwaffle: More like I hate how Node has become the new Java
[03:24:26] tuxwaffle: or something
[03:24:35] tuxwaffle: ... the caffeine is wearing off and my thoughts are less coherent
[03:24:44] willywos: i thought everyone was leaving javascript for go
[03:24:50] tuxwaffle: that and marathoning "Silicon Valley" isn't helping
[03:25:01] tuxwaffle: Is Go webscale though? :P
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[03:25:53] tuxwaffle: I'm just gonna learn how to do everything in Ruby
[03:26:00] tuxwaffle: and be a dual Ruby/Python god
[03:26:04] al2o3-cr: weird, how 2 nicks trevor agaisnt each other?
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[03:27:59] willywos: i hate that trevor, such an ass
[03:28:42] tuxwaffle: I think my brain is broken now
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[03:30:49] diegoviola: I was talking with someone the other day and mentioned how expressive Ruby can be that you can do some really nice one-liners and make methods smaller, and then this person said "Really? Do you know code minification with JavaScript? Do you know how difficult that is to read?", I feel that he completely missed the point
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[03:32:57] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Properly utilizing Ruby's expressiveness has nothing to do with LOC.
[03:33:19] diegoviola: Ox0dea: I know
[03:33:25] Ox0dea: Clearly not.
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[03:34:44] diegoviola: it's why I said the other person was missing the point
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[03:35:24] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Why bother to mention LOC in defense of Ruby's expressiveness?
[03:36:10] Aeyrix: Because semantics.
[03:36:40] diegoviola: you're not making much sense
[03:36:47] Aeyrix: If we don't get our daily quota of arguing about semantics, this channel might start to look like a place where people can get help.
[03:36:56] Aeyrix: Gotta make sure that doesn't happen.
[03:37:26] diegoviola: you just want someone to argue with, I'm not interested
[03:37:38] Aeyrix: Oh, I don't. I was being sarcastic.
[03:37:42] Aeyrix: The others, probably.
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[03:39:54] diegoviola: code minification in JS and refactoring code to make methods smaller are different things
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[03:40:38] al2o3-cr: >> >> self.class === BasicObject
[03:40:39] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => /tmp/execpad-6a5f09dca00b/source-6a5f09dca00b:2: syntax error, unexpected >> ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413398)
[03:40:55] Aeyrix: >> self.class === BaseObject
[03:40:56] ruboto: Aeyrix # => uninitialized constant BaseObject (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413399)
[03:41:01] Aeyrix: >> self.class === BasicObject
[03:41:02] ruboto: Aeyrix # => true (https://eval.in/413400)
[03:41:04] Aeyrix: Third time lucky.
[03:42:02] willywos: what does that even do?
[03:42:10] Ox0dea: willywos: It shows that BasicObject is an Object.
[03:42:13] Ox0dea: Crazy, right?
[03:42:58] Ox0dea: Everything on which you can invoke a method is an Object.
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[03:46:10] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => true (https://eval.in/413403)
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[03:46:31] havenwood: al2o3-cr: I can confirm that. Just checked.
[03:46:39] al2o3-cr: that can't right
[03:46:43] Aeyrix: I'm so glad we have this bot.
[03:47:07] al2o3-cr: how can 5 equal 5?
[03:47:12] Ox0dea: >> 5 == 4.99999999999999999999999
[03:47:13] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/413406)
[03:47:18] havenwood: al2o3-cr: It... does.
[03:47:23] Aeyrix: n i c e m e m e
[03:47:43] havenwood: al2o3-cr: is five equal to five?
[03:48:10] al2o3-cr: havenwood: idk is it?
[03:48:10] havenwood: al2o3-cr: I don't understand the objection.
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[03:48:18] havenwood: al2o3-cr: Yup.
[03:48:23] Ox0dea: al2o3-cr: lrn2peano
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[03:48:54] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => 1 (https://eval.in/413407)
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[03:49:12] Ox0dea: al2o3-cr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms
[03:49:58] Ox0dea: Metaphysically, 1 == 1 because fuck you, that's why.
[03:50:17] al2o3-cr: haha lol :D
[03:50:46] al2o3-cr: Ox0dea: cheeky shit
[03:50:53] Ox0dea: al2o3-cr: GIGO.
[03:52:11] Ox0dea: al2o3-cr: Read the Principia or something.
[03:52:42] al2o3-cr: Ox0dea: chill, fucking with ya
[03:52:57] Ox0dea: And I with you, only I'm also trying to learn you something.
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[03:53:40] havenwood: >> 0 - 0 ** 0 == -1
[03:53:41] ruboto: havenwood # => true (https://eval.in/413409)
[03:54:25] al2o3-cr: havenwood: lol
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[03:55:09] al2o3-cr: havenwood: knows is maths
[03:55:12] havenwood: >> 0 ** 0 == 1 ** Math.sqrt(Math::E)
[03:55:13] ruboto: havenwood # => true (https://eval.in/413410)
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[03:56:01] Ox0dea: havenwood: So oily.
[03:56:17] Ox0dea: Wait, no, I thought you were doing Euler's identity.
[03:57:10] Ox0dea: >> Math::E ** (Math::PI * 1i) + 1 == 0
[03:57:11] ruboto: Ox0dea # => false (https://eval.in/413411)
[03:57:19] Ox0dea: Dammit. That's true on my system.
[03:57:21] al2o3-cr: >> 144 == (12**2.0)
[03:57:22] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => true (https://eval.in/413412)
[03:57:43] Ox0dea: havenwood: Euler's identity is pretty sexy.
[03:57:52] Ox0dea: I don't know why it doesn't hold on 32-bit systems, though.
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[03:59:56] al2o3-cr: how many zero's 32bt?#
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[04:01:13] diegoviola: Question please
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[04:02:16] diegoviola: why is that when I do: 10**2000.class I get a: TypeError: Class can't be coerced into Fixnum, but when I do (10**2000).class I get a Bignum
[04:02:36] Aeyrix: Order of operations.
[04:03:11] havenwood: diegoviola: 10**(2000.class)
[04:03:27] diegoviola: what is the meaning of the parens in this case
[04:03:41] diegoviola: havenwood: ok that makes more sense
[04:03:42] havenwood: diegoviola: an expression
[04:04:00] diegoviola: 10 is an object and ** is a method and you pass 2000.class as a parameter
[04:04:11] havenwood: diegoviola: yup
[04:04:22] Aeyrix: >> 10.**(2)
[04:04:23] ruboto: Aeyrix # => 100 (https://eval.in/413416)
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[04:05:07] al2o3-cr: >> (2**32)-1
[04:05:08] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => 4294967295 (https://eval.in/413417)
[04:05:14] diegoviola: (foo).class doesn't make much sense though, what is () exactly?
[04:05:15] al2o3-cr: running out
[04:05:22] Aeyrix: diegoviola: What
[04:05:24] diegoviola: is it just a keyword?
[04:05:33] Aeyrix: do you not remember mathematical order of operations?
[04:05:36] Aeyrix: it's basically the same thing
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[04:06:09] al2o3-cr: >> 2 << 32 (-1)
[04:06:10] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => /tmp/execpad-30d08b52790b/source-30d08b52790b:2: syntax error, unexpected '(', expecting keyword_end ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413418)
[04:06:22] havenwood: diegoviola: it delimits the beginning and ending of an expression
[04:06:34] diegoviola: havenwood: right
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[04:08:23] al2o3-cr: >> -> n { n << 32-1 }[2]
[04:08:24] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => 4294967296 (https://eval.in/413420)
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[04:09:00] al2o3-cr: >> -> n { n << 32-1 }.(5)
[04:09:01] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => 10737418240 (https://eval.in/413421)
[04:09:25] al2o3-cr: diegoviola: ruby is the bomb!
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[04:10:07] diegoviola: al2o3-cr: what is that supposed to mean?
[04:10:32] al2o3-cr: the one and only :D
[04:11:48] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Your elementary school deserves to have its funding revoked.
[04:12:18] Aeyrix: I'm lucky I chose to stop drinking before I switched back to this channel.
[04:13:06] al2o3-cr: drink, drink fackin drink lol
[04:13:32] diegoviola: Ox0dea: I'd rather not get into that discussion, can you also please stop with the belittling about education?
[04:13:51] al2o3-cr: father ted, funny
[04:14:10] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Check your privilege, mate.
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[04:16:38] al2o3-cr: mpv stop.mp3
[04:16:47] Ox0dea: Aeyrix: This song sounds a lot like 4'33".
[04:16:50] Ox0dea: New favorite!
[04:16:56] diegoviola: Ox0dea: not all countries have great education systems, that's one of the reasons I value the internet and open access to information a lot
[04:17:05] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Let it go, dude.
[04:17:48] al2o3-cr: why's it not playing?
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[04:18:00] Aeyrix: Ox0dea: It was brass
[04:18:04] diegoviola: Ox0dea: Sure. You might also want to be less offtopic and less passive aggressive
[04:18:13] Aeyrix: 1/4 1/4 1/2 1/2 1/4 1/4
[04:18:15] al2o3-cr: awesomeness
[04:18:18] Aeyrix: then someone saying "stop"
[04:18:20] Aeyrix: and that was it
[04:18:20] Ox0dea: diegoviola: When I joined the Internet, expression grouping was one of the first things they taught us during onboarding. We had to read SICP in the snow, uphill both ways.
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[04:18:43] blimpdev: 0x0dea: Can you please fuck off dude we all don't like you at all
[04:18:54] Ox0dea: Yeah! Fuck off, 0x0dea!
[04:19:10] blimpdev: dude i misspelled your shit because i fucking hate you
[04:19:13] blimpdev: piece of cock
[04:19:16] Ox0dea: All my feels.
[04:19:26] Ox0dea: Aeyrix: No! Y U DO DIS?
[04:19:27] Aeyrix: Can we stop the angst now, on all sides.
[04:19:55] Radar: !mute blimpdev
[04:19:55] ruboto: +q blimpdev!*@*
[04:19:55] ruboto: -o ruboto
[04:20:00] Radar: Anyone else want one?
[04:20:13] Ox0dea: ACTION raises hand, but only if you're gentle.
[04:20:14] Aeyrix: Does it come with an action figure?
[04:20:17] al2o3-cr: the billy joel song i like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0
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[04:20:33] al2o3-cr: and the only one
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[04:22:02] al2o3-cr: whoa, what happened?
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[04:22:37] al2o3-cr: i only searched for a song :/
[04:22:59] Aeyrix: People started getting rude.
[04:24:12] al2o3-cr: Aeyrix: yeah, scrolled up, wow
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[04:25:08] al2o3-cr: i should take joins/quits off
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[04:29:13] al2o3-cr: who's watched 'max'
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[04:29:46] Aeyrix: Is that like
[04:29:50] Aeyrix: before he went mad?
[04:30:06] Ox0dea: Mad Min is a pretty good show.
[04:30:07] al2o3-cr: max (THE WAR DOG)
[04:30:34] Radar: Ironic that the person who spams ?offtopic is now posting offtopic messages in this channel.
[04:30:59] Ox0dea: I think that's just hypocrisy.
[04:31:06] al2o3-cr: not bad film
[04:31:54] Ox0dea: ACTION just drank a fifth of dihydrogen monoxide.
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[04:32:56] al2o3-cr: very much respect to the the veteran and dog (you need balls, big balls for that career)
[04:33:07] wmoxam: ???? ????
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[04:35:41] baweaver: Aeyrix: you can always !.ops to get their attention too (without the dot)
[04:35:52] Aeyrix: But I try and remind everyone before using that.
[04:36:11] Ox0dea: Plus nice memes.
[04:36:31] Aeyrix: Ox0dea: I tried to get that as a command for #ror's bot.
[04:36:34] al2o3-cr: so many young people dying, over a war that not be won
[04:36:35] Aeyrix: Didn't work.
[04:36:47] Aeyrix: Is al2o3-cr a Markov chain bot?
[04:36:53] Ox0dea: He's just... different.
[04:37:20] al2o3-cr: Aeyrix: no just speaking the truth
[04:39:12] wmoxam: al2o3-cr: I agree. Programming language wars are the worst
[04:39:12] baweaver: so just high then, ok.
[04:39:26] baweaver: Java should die in a fire.
[04:39:29] al2o3-cr: just fucking gets to me, not even lived and getting killed over a fucking war that's as beem going on for over a 1000 years (government pricks)
[04:40:36] al2o3-cr: and this country is a JOKE
[04:41:03] Ox0dea: /part #soapbox
[04:41:16] sevenseacat: al2o3-cr: can you like, settle a little?
[04:41:17] wmoxam: al2o3-cr: it's true that the Ruby community can be a bit tough on PHP and Java folk, but I'd say on a whole we're an accepting bunch
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[04:42:03] al2o3-cr: grandmothers and grandfathers fought in world war 2 possibly 1 and can't get shit, it's wrong, it needs to change
[04:42:14] sevenseacat: al2o3-cr: enough.
[04:42:22] Ox0dea: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."
[04:42:25] Aeyrix: thank mr philosophy
[04:42:33] wmoxam: oh yes, I remember the text editor wars
[04:42:40] baweaver: I'm just Mr Pun
[04:42:41] Radar: !mute al2o3-cr
[04:42:41] ruboto: +q al2o3-cr!*@*
[04:42:41] ruboto: -o ruboto
[04:42:41] wmoxam: they were *brutal*
[04:42:44] Radar: Anyone else?
[04:42:59] Aeyrix: wmoxam: They still happen! :D
[04:43:03] baweaver: Radar has spoken, so it shall be
[04:43:09] Aeyrix: I'm like 80% sure one of my colleagues uses Emacs.
[04:43:16] Aeyrix: idk what he uses as a text editor though
[04:43:31] baweaver: Just grew up administering headless servers so Vim is kinda second nature to me anymore.
[04:43:52] Aeyrix: I always stuck to nano because I was just lazy and often was only doing very simple text editing.
[04:43:54] baweaver: Would I tell a fresh newbie to use it? No, they have enough to learn as is.
[04:44:06] Aeyrix: I can use vi/m, but I tend not to.
[04:44:12] Ox0dea: baweaver: But that's the antithesis of indoctrination!
[04:44:15] baweaver: It takes getting used to definitely.
[04:44:50] baweaver: I'm far more a pragmatist, use what works best for you
[04:45:11] baweaver: which of course can be overridden for the sake of greater pragmatism, ie style guides
[04:45:19] wmoxam: baweaver: that attitude is what led to the end of the war
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[04:45:42] Aeyrix: ALL FOR NOTHING
[04:45:52] Ox0dea: Well, I think it won a Pulitzer or some such.
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[04:47:02] Ox0dea: Scratch that, but it did contribute to M??rquez's Nobel Prize, so there's that.
[04:47:29] Ox0dea: "One Hundred Years of Solitude".
[04:47:40] Ox0dea: It's wunna dem book thangs.
[04:47:41] Aeyrix: So, yeah, Vim.
[04:47:41] wmoxam: and Vim as well
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[04:47:59] Aeyrix: On the topic of software winning prizes, I wish I could do these reports in LaTeX.
[04:48:11] Aeyrix: MSWord crashes so fucking frequently on OS X right now.
[04:48:28] wmoxam: why are you using MS Word?
[04:48:34] Aeyrix: wmoxam: MSWord templates.
[04:48:40] Aeyrix: LibreOffice gets 'em wrong.
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[04:49:10] wmoxam: I only use Google Docs anymore
[04:49:24] wmoxam: or if I want a good layout, HTML
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[04:54:01] Ox0dea: https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/sinkhole
[04:54:03] Ox0dea: The hell is Ring -2?
[04:55:09] wmoxam: Ox0dea: HW exploit?
[04:55:23] wmoxam: ie: microcode?
[04:55:27] wmoxam: (just guessing)
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[04:56:28] Ox0dea: wmoxam: Well, yeah, but Ring -1 is the hypervisor; what's under that?
[04:57:05] havenwood: "we'll release proof-of-concept code exploiting the vast, unexplored wasteland of forgotten x86 features, to demonstrate how to jump malicious code from the paltry ring 0 into the deepest, darkest realms of the processor"
[04:57:35] wmoxam: Ox0dea: turtles
[04:58:00] havenwood: deep water turtles that like the dark
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[04:58:54] havenwood: Ox0dea: ring super sekret
[04:59:00] sevenseacat: computers, how do they work?
[04:59:03] sevenseacat: we're all fooked
[04:59:23] wmoxam: ring -2 is where they keep the magic smoke
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[05:02:08] havenwood: Ox0dea: System Management Mode (SMM) apparently.
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[05:03:37] havenwood: looking at that pdf
[05:04:09] Ox0dea: >> eax = 42; eax ^= eax
[05:04:10] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 0 (https://eval.in/413423)
[05:04:17] Ox0dea: A dedicated zero register seems just dumb enough to be useful.
[05:04:49] Aeyrix: this is relevant to my expertise
[05:05:09] Ox0dea: Aeyrix: It's sinkhole's author's GitHub handle.
[05:05:30] Aeyrix: I meant the sinkhole itself.
[05:05:40] Ox0dea: Ah. ELI5?
[05:06:04] Aeyrix: The actual thing?
[05:07:20] Aeyrix: Basically x86 has a more privileged area beyond ring 0 - kernel - where things just go full MC Hammer and AV can't touch it.
[05:08:01] Aeyrix: There's plenty of layers of protection over these areas with x86, but 40-odd years of code and models leave a really nice mess.
[05:08:53] Aeyrix: One of the key niceties of "ring -2" is the fact that it can bypass Intel's TXT (trusted execution tech), giving it tip-top tier privileges on even modern processors.
[05:10:31] Aeyrix: There's not a full paper yet because the talk hasn't happened afaik.
[05:10:34] Ox0dea: Is it not technically feasible for whitehats (read: AV writers) to use the same principle for good?
[05:10:47] Aeyrix: This attack isn't like
[05:10:54] Aeyrix: it's not a punchhole vulnerability
[05:11:00] Aeyrix: where you're just breaking a level of protection and can do anything
[05:11:06] Aeyrix: it's actually quite limited in its first stage.
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[05:12:35] Aeyrix: It's more the second stage which is much, much more potent.
[05:12:40] Aeyrix: Because it now has access to this ring -2.
[05:13:33] Aeyrix: The main problem with this vulnerability is at "ring -2" nobody, nothing can see what you're doing.
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[05:13:47] Aeyrix: It's kind of what most people imagine ring 0 is all about, by an order of magnitude
[05:14:11] Aeyrix: I described it to someone else as like getting SYSTEM / root but for the hardware itself, not just the OS.
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[05:14:45] Ox0dea: Aeyrix: I can't quite wrap my head around ring-2 residents not being able to see each other; how does that work?
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[05:15:05] Aeyrix: Because if malware gets there first, it runs the place.
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[05:17:20] Aeyrix: This is amusingly all possible because of a miniscule patch to fix a small subset of systems two decades ago.
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[05:24:52] [k-: >> 1 ^= 1
[05:24:53] ruboto: [k- # => /tmp/execpad-b2168bdf8214/source-b2168bdf8214:2: syntax error, unexpected tOP_ASGN, expecting keywor ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413430)
[05:25:09] [k-: does it work for 1?
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[05:28:18] bnagy: Aeyrix: http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/features/endpoint fwiw
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[05:28:31] bnagy: hypervisor isn't that esoteric and tons of AV companies want in there
[05:28:38] bnagy: smm is crazypants
[05:28:44] Aeyrix: Hypervisor is "ring -1"
[05:28:52] Aeyrix: in quotes because there's only three true rings and I don't care what anyone says.
[05:29:07] Aeyrix: Also FWIW this sinkholing is fixed as of Intel's Sandy Bridge generation of processors.
[05:29:12] Aeyrix: About three years ago?
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[05:29:19] Aeyrix: Sandy / Ivy / Haswell
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[05:29:48] bnagy: well SMM attacks in general are very not-dead
[05:29:49] Aeyrix: bnagy: Have you seen the actual restrictions they had?
[05:29:58] Aeyrix: It's insane.
[05:30:16] bnagy: yeah, I was just reacting to "below ring 0 means AV can't touch it"
[05:30:22] Aeyrix: Oh, yeah.
[05:30:31] Aeyrix: Unless explicitly allowed by things like vSphere. ;)
[05:31:02] bnagy: you can run more-or-less-normal code at -1, lots of things use it
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[05:31:38] bnagy: although I definitely agree that the 'ring' monikers are dumb
[05:31:47] bnagy: below 0 anyway
[05:31:47] Aeyrix: 0 - 3 made sense.
[05:31:55] Aeyrix: -1 was... i don't know
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[05:33:38] bnagy: the arm TZ talk also got pulled which is >:(
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[06:03:56] Aeyrix: diegoviola: lol did you quote Linus on regression testing
[06:04:11] diegoviola: Aeyrix: yes, why?
[06:04:18] Aeyrix: You realise that quotation was sarcasm, right?
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[06:04:34] Aeyrix: I thought so.
[06:04:36] Aeyrix: It was sarcasm.
[06:04:55] diegoviola: Aeyrix: how do you know? none of his projects do any regression testing
[06:05:06] Aeyrix: Because I know where the quote came from.
[06:05:13] diegoviola: Aeyrix: where did it come from?
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[06:05:19] Aeyrix: An email in 1998.
[06:05:20] Aeyrix: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9804.1/0149.html
[06:05:34] diegoviola: I've seen this email before
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[06:11:31] diegoviola: Aeyrix: oh 2 years before I started with Linux, interesting
[06:11:41] TomyLobo: sarcasm came from an email in the 90s?
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[06:12:22] [k-: "Raw brain taste test"
[06:12:32] [k-: oh shit wrong channel
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[06:12:52] [k-: you guys saw nothing!
[06:13:57] TomyLobo: the answer is probably "like chicken" anyway
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[06:22:53] Ox0dea: >> Class.is_a? Module # TomyLobo
[06:22:54] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/413505)
[06:22:59] Ox0dea: Because I wasn't around to blow your mind earlier. :P
[06:23:33] [k-: ACTION raises CircularDependencyError
[06:23:41] Ox0dea: [k-: ^= is a compound assignment; you can't assign to integer literals.
[06:24:11] Ox0dea: Also, a mutual dependency isn't necessarily circular.
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[06:24:14] [k-: i know what = means!
[06:24:21] Ox0dea: Then why did you `1 ^= 1`?
[06:24:38] [k-: a moment of foolishness.
[06:24:46] Ox0dea: Humility becomes you.
[06:25:18] htmldrum: has joined #ruby
[06:25:39] [k-: in Soviet Russia, you become humility
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[06:38:04] ruboto: baweaver # => 2 (https://eval.in/413520)
[06:38:14] ruboto: baweaver # => 0 (https://eval.in/413521)
[06:38:39] Ox0dea: "Nice haircut," said 1+1.
[06:38:46] atmosx: aloha ppl
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[06:39:25] diegoviola: LaTeX is sort of annoying to use, but the quality of the documents is great
[06:39:43] Ox0dea: (That was two's compliment, for any confused.)
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[06:41:12] diegoviola: Ox0dea: are you referring to my comment?
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[06:42:10] Ox0dea: diegoviola: No, baweaver gave a demonstration of two's complement arithmetic.
[06:42:13] Ox0dea: And then I punned.
[06:42:37] Ox0dea: No worries.
[06:42:44] baweaver: I am the one who puns
[06:42:50] diegoviola: sorry for the offtopic too, I thought I was on #archlinux for a second :P
[06:42:58] baweaver: Just so we're crystal clear here
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[06:43:15] diegoviola: not sure about that
[06:43:48] diegoviola: what is pun/punned?
[06:44:00] baweaver: joke ___/ diegoviola \____
[06:44:09] diegoviola: english is not my primary language
[06:44:21] baweaver: wouldn't help in this case.
[06:44:32] baweaver: It was a Breaking Bad pun
[06:44:39] diegoviola: not sure I understand, nvm
[06:44:47] baweaver: probably won't, it's a show
[06:44:57] baweaver: you'd have to watch it to catch the joke
[06:45:00] diegoviola: I know Breaking Bad, never watched it though
[06:45:02] Ox0dea: baweaver: A guy opens his mouth and puns and you think that of me?!
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[06:45:19] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Punning is arguzia verbale.
[06:45:35] Ox0dea: Blame Google.
[06:45:37] baweaver: we're just word playing
[06:47:01] baweaver: Ox0dea: http://thecodelesscode.com/ is fun
[06:47:10] Ox0dea: I enjoyed it.
[06:47:28] Ox0dea: Probably should've kept a list of my favorites, in hindsight.
[06:47:32] baweaver: http://thecodelesscode.com/case/29 is a decent enough starting point
[06:47:47] baweaver: story of two ponds
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[07:19:18] Kero: baweaver: thx for that link (thecodelesscode), I think I'll enjoy it, too!
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[08:24:12] symm-: any way to start the default browser with an arbitrary url from ruby?
[08:24:27] djbkd: has joined #ruby
[08:24:29] adaedra: depend on the system
[08:24:55] Ox0dea: `xdg-open` is pretty standard.
[08:24:58] adaedra: there's xdg-open command on Linux and open on Mac OS X
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[08:25:41] symm-: oh nvm found it - system("start http://www.google.com")
[08:25:48] symm-: (windows here)
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[08:26:01] symm-: thanks guys
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[08:31:29] irctc594: hello anyone here?
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[08:32:38] yorickpeterse: g'day children
[08:32:43] yorickpeterse: you all behaved nicely?
[08:32:48] yorickpeterse: not doing any drugs?
[08:33:15] adaedra: winners don't do drugs
[08:33:22] adaedra: good thing I'm not a winner I guess
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[08:37:44] irctc594: so im getting this error, {"code"=>101, "error"=>"object not found for update"} when trying to do this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/18675c26e5470999808d
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[08:39:31] sevenseacat: I hate whe n that happens.
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[08:42:05] irctc594: can anyone help with my issue?
[08:42:16] Ox0dea: irctc594: Do you have a local variable named object_id?
[08:42:17] sevenseacat: what about it?
[08:42:36] irctc594: yes i do have a local variable.
[08:42:43] sevenseacat: and what is it?
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[08:43:00] irctc594: i dont know why its saying object not found for update when i have the column in parse
[08:43:54] irctc594: object_id = session[:object_id]
[08:44:01] sevenseacat: and what is it?
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[08:46:04] jhass: meh, I want a way so that some_symbol.to_f_s returns a frozen string and always the same one for the same symbol
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[08:46:21] irctc594: i just said what it was
[08:46:36] sevenseacat: for all we know, session[:object_id] is nil, so
[08:46:42] sevenseacat: thats why I asked what it is
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[08:47:01] Ox0dea: irctc594: Whose code do you reckon is more likely to be wrong, Parse's or yours?
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[08:47:22] irctc594: obviously mine
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[08:48:50] Ox0dea: irctc594: Good, then you've the sense to appreciate that "object not found for update" is a concise and accurate explanation for the problem you're having.
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[08:49:47] Ox0dea: irctc594: I trust you realize that application ID and API key aren't the same thing?
[08:49:57] Ox0dea: Your code indicates that you're using the same value for both.
[08:51:01] irctc594: but in my real code i have it differntly, i just changed it for posting on gist
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[08:51:23] sevenseacat: so..... did we work out what object_id was yet?
[08:52:21] Ox0dea: irctc594: Aye, you should confirm that session[:object_id] is what you think it is.
[08:52:37] Ox0dea: According to Parse's API docs, it should be a ten alphanumerics.
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[08:53:27] irctc594: yeah the users objectid
[08:53:30] Ox0dea: This guy.
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[08:54:08] sevenseacat: I don't think we're asking a super-hard question here
[08:54:16] Ox0dea: irctc594: You're *certain* you're not inadvertently invoking the #object_id method?
[08:54:31] sevenseacat: what value is currently stored in the variable object_id ?
[08:54:48] Ox0dea: That's PII, after a fashion.
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[08:55:09] sevenseacat: so change some numbers or letters then
[08:55:41] sevenseacat: but for all we know, they're calling the api with their ID from their own database, which is not the right ID
[08:55:44] irctc594: whoever is logged in their user objectid is taken to use, so in this case its 6i9wY1E7pb
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[08:56:31] sevenseacat: so thats what you got when you printed out object_id in the console when you made that request or something?
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[08:56:43] sevenseacat: and you're 1000000% sure that matches a user record in the Parse database?
[08:57:06] adaedra: that's a big number
[08:57:07] irctc594: yes 1000000000% lol
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[08:57:47] irctc594: yeah i have it right now so whoever is logged in, it outputs their objectid. and it matches
[08:58:45] sevenseacat: then you just broke the internet. god job.
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[09:00:29] irctc594: not really helpful lol
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[09:02:41] sevenseacat: well you said Parse isnt broken, and your code is perfect. what else are we supposed to say?
[09:03:44] apeiros: ACTION just rehashing what the others already said:
[09:04:23] apeiros: irctc594: store url & message body in a variable, print that url and the message body, use that variable. to make sure what you print is what you actually use
[09:05:09] apeiros: the most likely reason for the break is your request being faulty. so that's where I'd spend time investigating.
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[09:09:15] irctc594: i mean i cant find any errors in my request
[09:09:38] apeiros: well, then what sevenseacat said.
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[09:13:14] irctc594: so i just do nothing? haha
[09:13:42] apeiros: no. you figure out where you went wrong with your assertions and/or testing methodology. we do nothing.
[09:14:16] apeiros: mostly because there's nothing we could do - you didn't give us anything to work with.
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[09:18:59] irctc594: how can i give u something to work with?
[09:19:46] Ox0dea: irctc594: local_variables.each { |v| puts "#{v}: #{eval v.to_s}" }
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[09:20:26] irctc594: what is that for?
[09:20:38] Ox0dea: All your state are belong to us.
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[09:22:44] [k-: i don't want the state, get away!
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[09:35:05] jhass: ACTION shouts "away! over here!"
[09:35:11] jhass: mmh, doesn't respond, sorry
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[09:35:29] adaedra: stop shouting, some people are trying to sleep
[09:36:03] [k-: yeah, like away
[09:36:32] dostoyevsky: will my c extension gems working with ruby1.9 still be able to be installed with ruby2 and later?
[09:37:17] jhass: after all the ABI changed with 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2
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[09:37:28] jhass: but that doesn't mean any part you use changed
[09:37:42] jhass: so there's only try and see left
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[09:43:07] apeiros: yay! thanks ICAO, transliteration tables :D
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[09:52:29] Ox0dea: apeiros: Doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd have to rely on an organization to provide?
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[09:55:33] Ox0dea: In hindsight, it seems likely that I completely misinterpreted your comment.
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[09:57:07] [k-: it seems we have seen much reflection on Ox0dea's part today
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[10:03:10] atmosx: dostoyevsky: you have a bad-ass nickname
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[10:07:00] Ox0dea: "[The Brothers Karamazov] can teach you everything you need to know about life." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Schlachthof-f??nf
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[10:07:17] tobiasvl: aka Slaughterhouse-Five
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[10:23:24] apeiros: Ox0dea: take a look at page 38 (in the pdf it's labeled as page 30, section 6a) in http://www.icao.int/publications/pages/publication.aspx?docnum=9303 (part 3), tell me whether you prefer to have a given table or come up with it yourself :p
[10:23:35] apeiros: splitty net?
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[10:24:19] apeiros: Ox0dea: also, even if you'd come up with it yourself - if you need it for what I need it, you have to follow the standard anyway
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[10:28:43] Ox0dea: apeiros: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/STRO/Lingua-Multinational-Translit-ICAO-1.05/ICAO.pm
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[10:29:03] Ox0dea: It explicitly mentions its source as being that Document 9303.
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[10:31:08] shock_one: Hi, guys. I'm reading the Sandi Metz' book and she has an interesting approach to testing. The idea is that if a method call to the object you test causes a side effect, but by means of a different object, you shouldn't test the side effect, instead you should test that the second object has received the correct incoming message. What do you think of this and do you use it in everyday life?
[10:31:09] Ox0dea: As an aside, Perl programmers really are strange: q!1 1...2 2! to delimit a multiline string.
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[10:32:34] shock_one: Does my sentence even make sense?
[10:32:50] Mon_Ouie: >> %q!1 1...1 2!
[10:32:51] ruboto: Mon_Ouie # => "1 1...1 2" (https://eval.in/413640)
[10:33:11] Ox0dea: shock_one: http://i.imgur.com/umCQh6m.png
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[10:33:41] Ox0dea: Testing whether an object receives a given message is extremely common, yes.
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[10:34:20] Ox0dea: Mon_Ouie: Sure, but have you ever seen something like that in wild Ruby code?
[10:34:21] shock_one: Ox0dea: I understand how to achieve it, but I'm wondering if it's a good idea. By the end of the day I don't care what methods my object calls, I only care if the side effect took place.
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[10:35:18] Ox0dea: shock_one: You mistook my intent; I meant to show you that it's "the done thing".
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[10:35:44] Mon_Ouie: Maybe not I guess
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[10:48:33] yardenbar: How can I set root user to use ruby 2.0 instead of 1.9.3 ?
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[10:51:28] shock_one: yardenbar: just make sure that the folder with the correct ruby binary comes first in your PATH variable.
[10:51:55] apeiros: Ox0dea: so: yay icao :-p
[10:52:22] apeiros: but yes, of course, I'll see whether there's a ruby library, or a table for AS' transliteration according to icao.
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[10:55:03] startupality: how can i reference my application.scss (SASS file) for use with PDFkit? can i make it work with SASS files instead of CSS and can I use my web site's css styles?
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[11:04:23] apeiros: um, Ox0dea - that lib you linked is a joke
[11:04:31] apeiros: it defines maybe 3% of the transliteration table
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[11:10:16] [k-: buuuuurn
[11:10:46] [k-: side effects are bad! always work with pure code!
[11:11:10] [k-: its not like ruby cant do it or anything
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[11:15:45] yorickpeterse: clearly haskell is the answer
[11:16:17] yorickpeterse: I mean ????????????????????????????
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[11:16:41] apeiros: must never print, must never persist. it's all sideeffects!
[11:17:19] [k-: clearly that is the way
[11:17:46] [k-: it's all meaningless when you factor in the entire universe
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[11:22:17] [k-: however, we need money
[11:22:29] [k-: haskell lets us do side effects too
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[11:25:52] yorickpeterse: and it doesn't give us money
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[11:27:12] shevy: what a useless language
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[11:28:12] [k-: more useful than you!
[11:28:21] [k-: ooooooo buuuuuuurn
[11:28:36] tuor: hi, i need to do a tree traversal but not binary, it can have more then 2 child.
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[11:29:04] tuor: I'm looking for an example to see how I can do it.
[11:29:15] jhass: sounds like homework :P
[11:29:26] tuor: jhass, no work.
[11:30:22] tuor: ^^. I mean I can do it, but I think it will be to comlicated and long if I try it just my self.. (and it takes much time).
[11:30:45] jhass: the recursive approach is generally more elegant, but given no practical tail call optimization it easily overflows the stack in Ruby
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[11:31:09] jhass: best is you come up with your own approach and post it here
[11:31:23] jhass: and ask for alternatives/tips/improvements
[11:31:30] [k-: so you want us to do the work for you?!
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[11:31:56] [k-: u need a better excuse!
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[11:34:01] tuor: [k-, no, I searched for examples in the inter but only found ones for binary trees. I'm just looking for an example how to do it. I'm not asking how to do it in my code. I think maybe someone knows one.
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[11:34:55] [k-: adapt the binary trees then
[11:35:29] jhass: tuor: I mean it, show your own approach, that will make it easier for us to suggest something appropriate but more importantly improve your own learning experience tremendously if you really thought through your problem on your own first
[11:35:30] [k-: [19:30:19] <tuor> ^^. I mean I can do it, but I think it will be to comlicated and long if I try it just my self.. (and it takes much time).
[11:35:30] [k-: --- sounds very much like an excuse
[11:36:32] apeiros: tuor: start by traversing the first level of children
[11:37:01] apeiros: when you've written that, show us the tree you traverse and the code you use
[11:37:12] tuor: apeiros, ok.
[11:37:27] maloik: Is anyone aware of any challenges/games much like http://honeypot.softwareskills.se/ ?
[11:37:40] apeiros: the tree should contain more than one level of children, though. it's just that for the start you only traverse one level.
[11:37:50] maloik: I'd love to try and program some of those game loop things, but the languages they have their aren't exactly my strong suits
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[11:41:34] tuor: apeiros, i have a try but didn't tested it for now. This is how I would do it. Just not ready to test it because not all code around (other methods) is done: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1d05f61d961781cc74a0
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[11:41:58] apeiros: tuor: I don't see a tree
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[11:42:42] tuor: a template has multiple dependencies, each of them has dependencies again and so on.
[11:42:51] apeiros: tuor: also if you're not sure how to traverse a tree yet, then leave away all code which is unrelated to traversing itself. solve traversal in isolation.
[11:43:10] apeiros: tuor: I know what a tree is. I don't ask for an abstract. I want *your* *specific* tree
[11:43:38] jhass: ... in your specific datastructure
[11:44:34] [k-: but wouldn't that increase coupling
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[11:51:02] tuor: with comments what it should do: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f12d082598eb9ccc8678
[11:52:46] [k-: the singular form of dependencies is dependency
[11:52:56] yorickpeterse: tuor: is there a specific order you need to process the nodes in?
[11:52:59] canton7: and the plural of child is children
[11:53:05] shevy: is kids!!!
[11:53:11] tuor: connor_goodwolf, ^^ sry
[11:53:29] tuor: oh man sry again. I ment canton7.
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[11:53:37] yorickpeterse: tuor: https://github.com/YorickPeterse/oga/blob/master/lib/oga/xml/traversal.rb#L7-L47 this could be useful
[11:53:40] yorickpeterse: That processes nodes in order
[11:53:42] shevy: I am sure connor_goodwolf needs some love as well
[11:53:46] yorickpeterse: (in order of their appearance)
[11:54:22] apeiros: yorickpeterse: in order? why not pre order? or post order? :D
[11:54:45] apeiros: or even breadth-first?
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[11:54:50] yorickpeterse: apeiros: read docs
[11:54:53] yorickpeterse: it's bread-first + depth-first
[11:55:03] yorickpeterse: heh, bread first
[11:55:08] apeiros: yorickpeterse: uh, you should look up tree traversal terminology :-p
[11:55:09] canton7: that's how my day starts
[11:55:21] yorickpeterse: apeiros: I'm familiar with pre/post order
[11:55:32] yorickpeterse: canton7: I'm more a fan of cereal-first order
[11:56:27] canton7: ACTION wonders whether there's a pun in first-order cereal
[11:58:02] Mon_Ouie: Wouldn't that be more efficient with #pop and #<< instead of #shift and #unshift which would both be O(n)?
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[11:58:58] [k-: it's the other way round in Haskell
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[11:59:09] [k-: the more you know!
[11:59:09] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: IIRC then the order is no longer correct
[11:59:13] Mon_Ouie: For linked lists, not for arrays
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[11:59:56] [k-: yeah? it is faster to remove the head or add the head
[12:00:06] [k-: not the back
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[12:00:47] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: Ah yes, if you use #<< and #pop the order goes bonkers
[12:00:54] yorickpeterse: I actually remember trying something like that initially
[12:01:05] Mon_Ouie: You're prepending elements and removing the first element. If you just swap the places where you reverse the array and instead append elements and remove them from the end, it should be strictly equivalent
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[12:01:41] [k-: this is a LIFO right!
[12:02:11] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: computer says no
[12:02:20] jhass: [k-: for linked lists it is (given singly linked, no tail pointer), for arrays it's slower since it needs to shift all later elements in memory
[12:02:52] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: oh hm, seems it does do it in order when the initial array is in reverse _and_ the iteration is in reverse
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[12:03:04] yorickpeterse: but I honestly doubt it would make much of a difference, Array#unshift isn't that bad performance wise
[12:03:10] [k-: yeah i know that, i read about it in algorasaurous
[12:03:20] [k-: i think thats how you spell it
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[12:04:11] [k-: http://algosaur.us
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[12:06:30] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: Yeah, there's pretty much no performance difference
[12:06:53] yorickpeterse: nevertheless shift/unshift shouldn't be needed so I'll get rid of that
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[12:11:43] jhass: yorickpeterse: if you still have the benchmark open I'd be curios if visit.concat current.children.to_a.reverse would be faster or slower. Given that most arrays there should be relatively small I'd expect the allocation to be more expensive than the additional method calls, but still
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[12:14:36] yorickpeterse: jhass: why would #concat be faster than #<< ?
[12:16:12] jhass: because it can expand the array to the target size and because you have less method calls / transitions between Ruby / C land
[12:17:00] yorickpeterse: Well, #<< doesn't re-allocate on every call IIRC
[12:17:10] yorickpeterse: it only re-allocates when needed and last I checked re-allocates in chunks
[12:17:40] connor_goodwolf: tuor: lazy tabber!!! *polishes his big teeth*
[12:17:44] jhass: yeah it does, but that's a heuristic while with concat you can guarantee it
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[12:18:11] jhass: idk whether MRI does it but in theory concat could also do a single memcopy
[12:18:52] Mon_Ouie: If you need to insert 1000 elements in an array whose capacity was initially 16 it will have to increase the buffer's size several times. #concat should only need to do it once.
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[12:20:57] yorickpeterse: Computer says no
[12:21:03] yorickpeterse: it's actually a tad slower
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[12:21:15] yorickpeterse: as in, using reverse_each it runs at 3258 iterations/sec
[12:21:28] yorickpeterse: using visit.concat(current.children.to_a.reverse) it runs at 3033 iterations/sec
[12:21:29] jhass: as said there's an expected transition point, you probably bench with small arrays
[12:21:41] yorickpeterse: No, it's 10 MB of XML with in total....
[12:21:43] jhass: and thus the .reverse becomes more expensive
[12:21:54] jhass: how many levels?
[12:22:06] yorickpeterse: 420241 nodes to traverse
[12:22:07] jhass: how many nodes per level on average?
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[12:23:34] yorickpeterse: Varies widely, no idea what the average is
[12:24:42] jhass: mmh, then the reverse is just too expensive I guess
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[12:26:46] Mon_Ouie: https://gist.github.com/230ec3c8d4ff6486a0e6 try with different tree width/depth
[12:26:48] shevy: flughafen ... I just read that Imtech has went bankrupt, I am sorry that you won't take off anytime soon :(
[12:27:13] Mon_Ouie: https://gist.github.com/91a6099d526aae6bc3f1 there
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[12:27:58] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: please don't use Benchmark for benchmarks
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[12:28:08] yorickpeterse: Even with bmbm it's pointless
[12:28:26] yorickpeterse: also that looks like massive overengineering for something as simple as iterating a tree
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[12:28:38] yorickpeterse: Especially since the nodes are already there: they're XML nodes
[12:29:03] jhass: the thing about each_node3 is that it can blow up the stack
[12:30:10] Mon_Ouie: Also what's wrong with Benchmark?
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[12:32:10] yorickpeterse: Mon_Ouie: it performs exactly 2 iterations when using bmbm
[12:32:29] yorickpeterse: whereas benchmark-ips takes care of warming things up and automatically calculating a decent number of iterations
[12:32:38] yorickpeterse: This can make _huge_ differences when benchmarking Rubies using a JIT
[12:32:43] yorickpeterse: or something that caches data
[12:33:02] yorickpeterse: The common pattern you see is Benchmark.bmbm { |b| b.report { 1000.times { .... } } }` but that's just as broken
[12:33:21] yorickpeterse: Here the number of iterations is fixed and usually picked for no particular reason other than "oh, 10 000 should be enough"
[12:33:39] yorickpeterse: But if your algorithm runs in 0.0000001 seconds you probably won't get very useful numbers when only running 10 000 iterations
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[12:37:47] Mon_Ouie: Like this? https://gist.github.com/815fab74e289334adfd8
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[12:40:16] yorickpeterse: Though each_node3 will smash the stack pretty quickly
[12:41:27] yorickpeterse: e.g. the default stack size for me is 8192, that's a limit that you'll hit really quickly
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[12:42:41] Mon_Ouie: Yup, can deal with trees that are ~1500 levels deep here
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[12:46:03] tuor: my aproach: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/85d5f288d03d1c0456a2
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[12:48:51] [k-_: so many string instantiations
[12:48:58] [k-_: looks painful
[12:49:26] tuor: ACTION uses vim and is happy with it
[12:50:09] tuor: first I wanted to do one more level.
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[12:57:07] tuor: This does what I want. So are there better ways?
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[12:59:57] [k-_: not initializing so many strings?
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[13:00:07] [k-_: using a ???
[13:00:14] [k-_: using a ??*
[13:00:23] [k-_: stupid macro
[13:00:36] [k-_: yes, thank you!
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[13:04:29] [k-_: >> a, b, c = {}
[13:04:30] ruboto: [k-_ # => {} (https://eval.in/413754)
[13:04:39] [k-_: >> a, b, c = {}; [a, b, c]
[13:04:40] ruboto: [k-_ # => [{}, nil, nil] (https://eval.in/413755)
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[13:07:22] [k-_: algosaurus actually uses an array to represent a binary tree
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[13:13:57] tuor: this is now in my code. I don't have a "prebuild" tree, the tree is "build" while traversing. The tree exist, but not as object in ruby only logical. https://gist.github.com/anonymous/aa0222b37d6ea8d76daf
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[13:15:00] tuor: [k-_, ^^ o man. yeas this would have save some time^^
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[13:17:14] [k-_: tuor: you already used the unless modifier in line 10, why not for line 8 too?
[13:17:55] jhass: tuor: .each on an empty array shouldn't be more expensive than comparing it to an empty array or even calling .empty?, just get rid of that silly unless there
[13:18:16] tuor: -> jhass
[13:18:28] tuor: [k-_, the line would be longer the 80 letters...
[13:18:43] jhass: tuor: so, that's the elegant recursive solution, but not it'll blow up if your tree depth exceeds your stack size
[13:19:34] tuor: jhass, the tree depth should normaly be max at 3 level or very max 5
[13:19:38] [k-_: use a ??!
[13:19:44] jhass: then it's fine
[13:19:45] [k-_: ugh the macro striked again!
[13:19:52] jhass: [k-_: what for?
[13:20:01] [k-_: recursive!
[13:20:12] jhass: [k-_: stop blabbering nonesense
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[13:20:35] yorickpeterse: They did too much Haskell
[13:20:36] tuor: [k-_, I don't get what you say. Can you tell me what I have to search online for understanding what you write?
[13:20:37] yorickpeterse: They've gone mad
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[13:20:50] [k-_: dont lambdas not produce so much stack
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[13:20:58] jhass: tuor: I'd move the already imported check into import_template
[13:21:20] tuor: jhass, ah nice idea! thx
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[13:22:04] adaedra: [k-_: lambda
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[13:22:15] jhass: or as return if to the start, you probably don't need to bother checking deps if you already imported
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[13:22:47] jhass: [k-_: no, Proc#call is a normal method call
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[13:23:11] jhass: no TCO at all in a normal MRI build
[13:23:12] tuor: jhass, yes. Then i does a litle less disk IO. But I don't realy know which would be faster. Both is ok.
[13:23:30] Mon_Ouie: And those recursive calls aren't tail calls anyway
[13:23:32] tuor: To have it in import_template is nice.
[13:24:04] [k-_: i used to think that if checks were expensive
[13:24:08] [k-_: and rescuing was not
[13:24:13] [k-_: ??\_(???)_/??
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[13:25:01] tuor: [k-_, no checks aren't but when there is code which is not need, then why not remove it.
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[13:25:35] [k-_: tuor: i said i used to think ;p
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[13:52:22] j416: what's a good up-to-date place to learn how to properly create a gem?
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[13:52:54] apeiros: j416: guides.rubygems.org
[13:53:46] apeiros: all you really need is a .gemspec. following the conventions with regards to directory structure is a good idea, though :)
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[13:54:30] havenwood: here's a Gist that's a gem: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/2f58ca4bbbb8c5720dc6
[13:54:50] havenwood: itsy bitsy gem
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[13:56:27] havenwood: could be smaller i guess
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[13:56:44] apeiros: isn't it a bit dirty to have the gem's code in the gemspec? o0
[13:56:51] havenwood: but yeah, of course follow gem structure!
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[13:57:34] havenwood: apeiros: way dirty! guess I could use a gist with multiple files. :)
[13:58:00] apeiros: how do you actually require that?
[13:58:01] havenwood: apeiros: just wanted to show it can be done
[13:58:10] havenwood: apeiros: i was just pondering that, hah
[13:58:13] apeiros: by activating the gem via Kernel#gem?
[13:58:22] havenwood: apeiros: ah, check the comment
[13:58:41] apeiros: the comment only concerns itself with installation, no?
[13:58:47] havenwood: apeiros: you can install it straight from the gist with RubyGems' new gemdeps stuff
[13:58:55] havenwood: apeiros: ah, you require like any other gem
[13:58:58] havenwood: once installed
[13:59:06] apeiros: you require a gem by requiring a file from its lib dir
[13:59:15] apeiros: this gem doesn't have a file
[13:59:34] havenwood: oh yeah, good point
[13:59:44] apeiros: require 'gemname' only works if you actually have lib/gemname.rb in your gem :)
[13:59:45] havenwood: i haven't extensively used this gem :P
[14:00:01] havenwood: i guess a gist can't have a lib folder
[14:00:07] apeiros: unless of course I'm mistaken and rubygems falls back???
[14:00:14] havenwood: apeiros: no, i think you're right
[14:00:17] yorickpeterse: maybe one day we no longer have RubyGems loading all Gemspecs in memory and keeping them there
[14:00:23] yorickpeterse: but one can only hope
[14:00:24] jhass: havenwood: no longer, there was a time where it was possible (never through web ui though)
[14:00:37] jhass: but now github actually rejects pushes
[14:00:55] yorickpeterse: > ObjectSpace.each_object(Gem::Specification).count
[14:01:10] havenwood: apeiros: i guess i should make it an executable ping
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[14:01:12] yorickpeterse: Though there are only 6 for a vanilla ruby -e
[14:02:13] havenwood: since it can point at itself for executables=
[14:02:14] mikecmpbll: could you add gem.require_paths = ['.'] ?
[14:02:34] mikecmpbll: never known exactly what require_paths does :p
[14:03:04] havenwood: mikecmpbll: yeah, i guess that instead of the normal `require_paths = ["lib"]` would make sense
[14:03:09] mikecmpbll: bundle gem bootstrapping ftw
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[14:05:11] mikecmpbll: speaking of rubygems and such. are there still plans for a bundler/rubygems unification?
[14:05:22] mikecmpbll: pretty sure i read that once, unless it was one of those crazy dreams i have.
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[14:05:28] mikecmpbll: after a few cloudy ciders.
[14:05:40] apeiros: mikecmpbll: afaik a lot of functionality of bundler has been rolled into rubygems already
[14:05:44] apeiros: e.g. it can handle gemfiles
[14:05:51] apeiros: and .lock files
[14:06:09] apeiros: and afaik they'll use the same dependency resolver (any time soon???)
[14:06:17] workmad3: apeiros: ah, it can handle lock files now too... fun... I think rubygems still resolves Gemfiles differently to bundler tho... yeah
[14:06:18] mikecmpbll: apeiros: really! hmpf. nice.
[14:07:17] workmad3: apeiros: can rubygems handle things like git: and path: options in Gemfile syntax?
[14:07:27] apeiros: workmad3: no idea
[14:07:39] apeiros: I didn't have a chance to get up to speed what gem can do
[14:07:43] apeiros: or how it does it
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[14:08:04] workmad3: tbh, that's the sort of thing I wouldn't expect to be rolled into rubygems, as that's really part of app provisioning rather than package/dependency management
[14:08:43] apeiros: well, you can view it as just sources for your repositories
[14:08:52] workmad3: it would be nice if that separation between bundler & rubygems became shaper though... shift the hardcore dependency management out into rubygems, keep the provisioning in bundler
[14:08:54] apeiros: similarly how it can handle mirrors
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[14:09:28] workmad3: apeiros: sure, but there's then still the issue of how to pick which repo to grab from, which is the provisioning aspect ;)
[14:09:47] apeiros: not sure I follow
[14:09:59] apeiros: hm, no. I'm sure I don't follow. there :D
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[14:10:55] workmad3: apeiros: ok... so how would you expect something like "Grab this gem from my local gemfury fork, this one from github, and this one from rubygems, and ignore the copies that have the same 'version' in the other repos you see" in rubygems?
[14:11:15] workmad3: apeiros: that's the provisioning aspect (where exactly do I get stuff from) as opposed to the dependency aspect (what do I need)
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[14:12:10] workmad3: apeiros: systems that try to do both well tend to end up sucking (maven, earlier versions of bundler, etc.)
[14:12:22] apeiros: I'm not really sure I see a reasonable distinction there
[14:12:48] apeiros: something which wants to resolve dependencies must need to know where to find those dependencies in order to traverse the full tree.
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[14:14:00] workmad3: apeiros: sure... but it's really about saying "I know this thing can be gotten from X, Y and Z" and a dependency manager doesn't really care which... provisioning is about saying "Ignore X and Y for this package, I need to get it from Z"
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[14:14:32] workmad3: apeiros: and then delegating to the dependency manager to resolve the dependencies of that package
[14:14:51] mikecmpbll: just give me what i want ????
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[14:16:20] havenwood: mikecmpbll: `gem install --file ./Gemfile` or shorthand `gem i -g` to create a Gemfile.lock
[14:16:44] workmad3: apeiros: the distinction is much less distinct in ruby than with maven tbh... with the java setup, you can (and frequently need to) say shit like "Make this package available during compilation, make this package available during testing, include this package in a jar, but exclude these dependencies from the jar because they'll be provided by the servlet"
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[14:17:02] havenwood: mikecmpbll: To activate Gemset gems set: RUBYGEM_GEMDEPS="-"
[14:17:11] tuor: when I call importe_templates i get the error: "undefined method `inlcude?' for []:Array" https://gist.github.com/anonymous/38d02db914db7a8ce916
[14:17:16] mikecmpbll: havenwood: tight.
[14:17:20] tuor: why? Man I don't get git :(
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[14:17:31] [k-_: tuor: you spelt include? wrong
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[14:17:45] tuor: [k-_, ah thx!!!
[14:17:53] tuor: was searching for >15min
[14:19:10] mikecmpbll: that's at least 22.5 seconds per character of the error message, you should've spotted it really :p
[14:19:43] [k-_: tuor: more sleep for you
[14:19:59] havenwood: mikecmpbll: Oops, typo, it's: RUBYGEMS_GEMDEPS
[14:20:12] mikecmpbll: havenwood: ah okay.
[14:20:15] havenwood: mikecmpbll: You can alternatively point it at the full path of the Gemfile
[14:20:47] havenwood: the - just has it detect Gemfile in current dir back to root
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[14:21:00] tuor: [k-_, I'm coding for 8.5 hours nonstop now... I have to eat something^^
[14:21:01] havenwood: works well :D
[14:21:14] havenwood: except for Rails which needs to stop hardcoding to Bundler
[14:21:37] havenwood: easy enough to fix
[14:21:40] mikecmpbll: havenwood: i doubt it will do that any time soon as from our discussion it seems there's still distinct differences :)
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[14:22:42] havenwood: mikecmpbll: aye, it's be a rails 5 thing if it make it
[14:22:52] havenwood: can't type this morning
[14:22:58] mikecmpbll: probably beyond that even
[14:23:13] havenwood: mikecmpbll: is rails 5 coming anytime soon?
[14:23:33] mikecmpbll: was originally stated to be later this year, i don't think they're totally off track, so.
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[14:25:38] havenwood: Maybe Rails 5 and Ruby 2.3 for Christmas this year. ;D
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[14:29:31] dudedudeman: happy friday, rubyists!
[14:29:39] dudedudeman: may all of your ruby dreams come true
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[14:34:49] adaedra: I'm doing PHP right now, is the offer still good, dudedudeman?
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[14:36:50] dudedudeman: I need to dig in to some php
[14:36:53] luzidco: has joined #ruby
[14:37:03] dudedudeman: everyone tells me i should hate it, but i'm a firm believer in not hating something until i've tried it
[14:37:32] [k-_: just hate it already
[14:37:47] adaedra: I have php.net open more often that any other tab, including mailbox.
[14:37:55] adaedra: Is it enough for you, dudedudeman?
[14:38:12] Darkwater: try devdocs.io
[14:38:25] dudedudeman: adaedra: never neough
[14:38:50] adaedra: Darkwater: it's moving the problem, won't change it.
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[14:39:22] Darkwater: adaedra: just a general tip for everyone though
[14:39:23] adaedra: And I need to read php.net comments to go quicker into depression.
[14:39:25] Darkwater: has ruby docs as well
[14:39:32] Darkwater: hm, it is true that those help
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[14:39:43] Darkwater: anyway dudedudeman learning php is time wasted
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[14:40:08] Darkwater: unless you want to become a corporate code typer with job security for a couple of years
[14:42:22] dudedudeman: i don't have too much need to learn it at the moment
[14:42:28] dudedudeman: the new job is dev ops, and they do ruby
[14:42:41] dudedudeman: but, i at least don't like being unaware
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[14:46:13] adaedra: <?php crap();
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[14:46:58] centrx: adaedra, That's the default functionality, doesn't need to be called
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[14:56:31] j416: how would I mock a class Foo::Bar to that I could say allow(Foo::Bar).to .. ?
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[14:56:49] j416: Foo::Bar is not defined.
[14:57:00] yorickpeterse: Then you can't mock it
[14:57:07] yorickpeterse: How do you mock something that doesn't exist?
[14:57:13] j416: that's what I'm asking
[14:57:29] yorickpeterse: You have to define Foo::Bar first
[14:57:41] j416: I want it to only be available when running the test
[14:58:05] yorickpeterse: Then you define it in the test
[14:58:12] yorickpeterse: Either way you have to define it somewhere
[14:58:16] j416: then it will be available to other tests
[14:58:32] [spoiler]: He can mock the lack of its existance "haaa haaa you don't exist, loooooser!"
[14:58:35] yorickpeterse: Then you undefine it after you've used it
[14:58:57] j416: was hoping rspec would provide some shorthand for that
[14:59:05] yorickpeterse: If you don't care about names you can use anonymous classes
[14:59:13] yorickpeterse: some_class = Class.new { ... }
[14:59:14] j416: I need a specific name
[14:59:30] j416: the code I am testing refers to Foo::Bar exactly
[14:59:44] [k-_: this is silly
[14:59:46] j416: but I don't want to require the gem that it is in
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[14:59:59] adaedra: [spoiler]: hahaha
[15:00:01] [k-_: just define the class!
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[15:00:19] j416: [k-_: will do, thanks
[15:01:10] [spoiler]: j416: eh. Why not, though? Wouldn't you want to test the functionality of the gem, though?
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[15:02:03] [spoiler]: Damn 2 `though's in one line. That's though use of though, though.
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[15:02:44] dopie: why do people use STDOUT.flush ?
[15:02:59] dopie: What is the purpose of the 'STDOUT.flush'
[15:03:21] [k-_: That's thorough* use (...)
[15:03:30] [spoiler]: Oh I just realised #ruby-lang forwards here. When did this happen? :O
[15:03:40] [k-_: since an eon ago
[15:03:50] [k-_: (actually 2 months)
[15:03:52] [spoiler]: dopie: when you want to flush stdout, since it might be buffered
[15:04:20] dopie: [spoiler], ok can you explain with an example?
[15:04:29] [k-_: &ri IO#flush
[15:04:29] `derpy: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/IO#flush-instance_method
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[15:05:19] dopie: doesn't $stdout.print "no newline"
[15:05:24] dopie: print it already?
[15:05:54] [spoiler]: it might be queued in a buffer and wait to be printed until the OS decides to do so
[15:06:23] [spoiler]: if you do print "a"; "print "b" you might get just 1 print instead of 2 prints (which is a good thing since printing has some overhead)
[15:06:24] dopie: is it really necessary to use that?
[15:06:36] [spoiler]: depends on how fast you want to send the data
[15:06:41] kallisti5: anyone have time to review this pull request? https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/984 it's pretty basic
[15:07:35] [spoiler]: dopie: if you want "a" available as soon as possible, then you'd print "a" and flush, then print "b"
[15:07:55] [spoiler]: if it's not that important (which it shouldn't be in most cases), then there's no need to flush
[15:08:31] dopie: [spoiler], ok thank you I get it now just ran into it reading the ruby way 3rd edition and was like what is .flush !
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[15:08:44] [spoiler]: Although, sometimes[citation needed] the OS might be unreasonable with how it caches the output, so some people add a flush for good measure
[15:09:02] dopie: [k-_, [spoiler] thank you for explaining that
[15:09:45] sepp2k: has joined #ruby
[15:11:09] [spoiler]: I find it somewhat ironic my IRC client can't autocomplete names with [ when my own nick contains it, lol
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[15:12:34] dopie: [spoiler], which client is that?
[15:13:01] [spoiler]: Well, the CLI version of WeeChat does it fine (I think) I am using GlowingBear as a frontend for it though
[15:13:09] ashleyhindle: Harry Potter _IS_ ginny weasley
[15:13:19] [spoiler]: ashleyhindle: wat
[15:13:21] bradland: [spoiler]: irssi manages it fine
[15:13:40] [spoiler]: works fine in cli version
[15:13:44] [spoiler]: I just tested it
[15:14:00] dopie: in a expression like this
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[15:15:10] dopie: if foo !~ /-?\d+/ basically reads if foo does not match /-?\d+/ than do something .... what is the ~ after the !
[15:15:43] bradland: dopie: it's part of the operator
[15:15:52] bradland: !~ is the operator
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[15:16:29] dopie: so just ! wouldn't do antying
[15:16:41] mikecmpbll: dopie: like !=, but ~ for regex comparison rather ;)
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[15:16:52] jhass: ACTION prefers if foo[/-?\d+/].nil?
[15:16:53] dopie: mikecmpbll, ahhh ok :)
[15:17:05] dopie: jhass, just going through the book
[15:17:10] mikecmpbll: dopie: !~ is to != as ~= is to ==
[15:17:22] bradland: dopie: when you see !, you can interpret it as "not"
[15:17:29] bradland: so != is "not equal"
[15:17:30] mikecmpbll: i always get that operator the wrong way around.
[15:17:36] [spoiler]: I think `!//` returns true
[15:17:49] [spoiler]: #random-trivia
[15:17:50] dopie: bradland, correct i just didn't know what ~ mean
[15:17:50] jhass: mikecmpbll: me too, just stopped using it, there's no actual need :P
[15:17:53] bradland: !~ "not match"
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[15:19:04] dopie: So I read it right even though I didn't know what the ~ was for ok cool :)
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[15:19:19] [k-_: could not deduce a ~ Infinity
[15:19:30] [k-_: dunno some shit the haskell compiler throws!
[15:19:38] mikecmpbll: jhass: indeed. you can define your own =~ method on your own classes though iirc :p
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[15:20:06] jhass: no idea why that would be a reason to use it ;)
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[15:20:30] mikecmpbll: me neither :/
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[15:21:01] [spoiler]: I thought I was the only one who confuses the ~ operators
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[15:21:51] elperdut: hello all. i have been googling around for this but haven't found exactly what i'm after. . is there a 'canonical' way to make it clear that a given variable is being called from a module (mixin)? e.g. if I am calling a logger from a Logging module, I want to make it clear in my code that the log method is coming from a module, maybe something like
[15:21:51] elperdut: include Logging
[15:21:51] elperdut: logger = Logging::logger
[15:21:52] elperdut: i know it's not necessary to do this in order for `logger` to be in scope. just wondering if this is a good way to make it clear.
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[15:23:04] jhass: sounds like you shouldn't include it in the first place
[15:23:18] jhass: and make the module work standalone
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[15:24:49] [spoiler]: guys, maybe we can remember the `=~` as "equal-ish" :D
[15:24:54] [spoiler]: yes, that's a good menmonic
[15:25:04] jhass: why not just stop using it?
[15:25:07] elperdut: the purpose of including it is to access it from several classes, sort of as a singleton
[15:25:21] elperdut: the old 'access one logger and config from several classes' thing
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[15:25:35] jhass: elperdut: doesn't sound like it needs to be included?
[15:25:48] [spoiler]: jhass: I rarely use it anyway, but I just wanted to have a method of remembering it :D
[15:26:45] [spoiler]: elperdut: since it's a constant, you can access it from anywhere anyway
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[15:27:58] elperdut: my module is in a file called 'logging.rb', the module name is Logging inside of it. so if i do `require 'logging'` and omit the `include Logging`. then do something like `logger = Logging::logger`, i get NameError: undefined local variable or method
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[15:28:37] [spoiler]: `def self.logger`
[15:28:45] catphish: when i run "gem install bundler" i don't get a "bundle" binary in by ruby bin directory, is there something i need to do to make this happen?
[15:28:51] [spoiler]: instead of `def logger`
[15:29:17] elperdut: (i'm basically ripping this off ??? http://stackoverflow.com/a/6768164/1258020)
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[15:29:47] [spoiler]: catphish: did it get installed someplace else? check the environment variables gem uses, and ~/.gemrc
[15:29:48] imperator: catphish, gem env ?
[15:29:58] jhass: catphish: ^ gist it
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[15:30:24] catphish: oh, i think it might be because my PATH is wrong, ie i'm accessing gem by its full path and its not in my path, or even worse, a different "gem" is in my path
[15:30:41] elperdut: oh crap. I am doing something stupid I think.
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[15:31:35] [spoiler]: elperdut: then you don't need to do what you're doing tho
[15:31:55] elperdut: jhass, spoiler: thanks for your input. this disambiguates things.
[15:32:23] elperdut: basically just assigning logger = Logging::logger instead of using the include
[15:32:28] catphish: imperator: jhass: i think i see the problem, i have an RVM installation, gem is using that "INSTALLATION DIRECTORY: /home/charlie/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.5" instead of the version of ruby i'm actually executing
[15:32:53] elperdut: (that makes me wonder - what is the value of the include statement over simply doing a 'require' and then using a qualified variable name instead?)
[15:33:09] jhass: elperdut: at the toplevel, there's little
[15:33:10] catphish: FYI: http://paste.codebasehq.com/pastes/8w8sjrzq05nxy6a0qz
[15:33:28] jhass: elperdut: include is essentially Ruby's way to do multiple inheritance
[15:33:37] catphish: the shell path points to a clean new version of ruby, but gem is picking up some RVM paths
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[15:34:26] jhass: elperdut: module CommonBehavior; end; module MoreCommonBehavior; end; class A; include CommonBehavior; end, class B; include CommonBehavior; include MoreCommonBehavior; end;
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[15:34:42] [k-_: please no
[15:34:56] catphish: why would my RVM environment be leaking into my new ruby environment? environment variables?
[15:35:17] catphish: "GEM_HOME=/home/charlie/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.1.5"
[15:35:22] catphish: that'll probably do it :(
[15:35:48] jhass: rvm implode ?
[15:36:09] catphish: "rvm system" fixed it, thanks
[15:36:23] havenwood: catphish: rvm use system --default
[15:36:24] catphish: that temporarily disables rvm's environment
[15:36:47] havenwood: catphish: or yeah, implode if you're not using it
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[15:37:07] catphish: havenwood: that's ok, i only need it to go away for one session while i build this new ruby
[15:37:14] catphish: i normall use rvm
[15:37:30] catphish: thanks anyway, its working correctly now
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[15:37:53] havenwood: catphish: Do update your RubyGems :), just a: rvm rubygems latest
[15:38:09] havenwood: catphish: (For your RVM Ruby.)
[15:38:18] havenwood: Or just in general: gem update --system
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[15:39:11] catphish: i rarely think to upgrade gem itself
[15:40:11] catphish: will do that on my new builds
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[15:42:39] ssb123: Does anyone have any experience integrating with MasterPass?
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[15:43:00] ruboto: Just ask your question, if anyone has or can, they will respond.
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[15:44:05] brain_shim: When a class returns something like #<MyClass:0x401b3bc8>, what is that called?
[15:44:44] brain_shim: And is there a method I can call on an object to return it?
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[15:45:39] [k-_: &ri Object#inspect brain_shim
[15:45:40] `derpy: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/Object#inspect-instance_method
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[15:47:40] brain_shim: If I have #<MyClass:0x401b3bc8>, how can I get the instance from that?
[15:47:55] jhass: brain_shim: that's not a valid ruby literal
[15:47:58] jhass: what do you really have
[15:48:54] jhass: or elaborate on what makes you say you "have #<MyClass..."
[15:49:09] brain_shim: A stack trace saying that: undefined method `my_attribute' for #<ActiveSupport::HashWithIndifferentAccess:0x007fc9563ce8b8> and I'm trying to pin down the object it's associated to.
[15:49:28] jhass: it should have a line number and a filename
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[15:50:35] [k-_: it is not possible to trace it down since errors crash the interpreter (unless you rescue it). if you do rescue it, you have to do it programmatically.
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[16:41:40] colstrom: ACTION waves.
[16:41:58] adaedra: friend \o/
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[16:44:57] shevy: time to party
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[16:59:38] apeiros: ACTION friday-hugs the channel
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[17:01:12] shevy: you sweaty swiss!
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[17:02:43] [k-_: ooooooooo buuuuuuuuurn
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[17:10:59] miah: yay friday-hugs
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[17:34:04] colstrom: So... brain fuzz today leaves me with a question: how do I call `.methods` on the `main` object?
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[17:35:09] colstrom: For instance, if I `def foo`, outside of a module or class, it gets defined on something... `self.to_s` in pry returns 'main', which makes sense as the top-level object.
[17:35:14] [k-_: >> self.methods
[17:35:15] ruboto: [k-_ # => [:to_s, :inspect, :nil?, :===, :=~, :!~, :eql?, :hash, :<=>, :class, :singleton_class, :clone, :dup, ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413829)
[17:35:21] colstrom: And I can call `self.methods` from that context.
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[17:35:49] colstrom: But... if I'm calling that from inside a class, `self` changes scope, right?
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[17:36:10] colstrom: So how to explicitly reference `main` from another scope?
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[17:36:49] [k-_: >> $a = self; class Foo; def bar; puts $a; end end; Foo.new.bar
[17:36:50] ruboto: [k-_ # => main ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413830)
[17:37:15] [k-_: $a wouldn't update if self changes though
[17:37:22] [k-_: (i think)
[17:37:39] [k-_: or you can get the object_id of self
[17:37:48] [k-_: and use ObjectSpace._id2ref
[17:38:01] apeiros: >> TOPLEVEL_BINDING
[17:38:02] ruboto: apeiros # => #<Binding:0x41259a04> (https://eval.in/413831)
[17:38:04] colstrom: Bingo. That's what I was looking for, I think.
[17:38:19] apeiros: though, IMO if you want to reference main, you're doing something bad.
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[17:39:10] apeiros: (and it'd be TOPLEVEL_BINDING.receiver)
[17:39:37] colstrom: apeiros: Wanting to trace changes to that object over the life of a program, for curiousity.
[17:40:33] [k-_: set_trace_func ( ???? ???? ????)
[17:40:50] colstrom: Sure, I could use TracePoint to do it.
[17:40:55] colstrom: And normally that's where I'd go.
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[17:41:40] colstrom: But I'm exploring right now, and figured I'd look at other options.
[17:41:50] colstrom: Adventure time, right? ^_^
[17:42:20] apeiros: ACTION draws unicode+xterm256color boxes in the terminal - because friday :D
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[17:43:05] colstrom: Thanks for the direction. Not enough sleep last night, brain super fuzzy today.
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[17:56:00] lukas: hi, i was watching the talk RedDotRuby 2015 - Keynote: Super Dry Ruby by Yukihiro 'Matz' Matsumoto and it mentioned that ruby will have new concurrency models. will the borrow/share be similar to what rust has? will the pipe/channel one be similar to go?
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[18:08:47] nofxx: Use each_with_object instead of reduce. Why rubocop?
[18:09:07] jhass: nofxx: because your block returns the accumulator?
[18:09:31] lannonbr: Question, would it be a reasonable to ask about an issue with the default theme that comes with Jekyll here?
[18:09:44] nofxx: jhass, makes sense now, ty ;)
[18:10:00] jhass: there's a #jekyll
[18:10:08] lannonbr: Okay thanks
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[18:20:01] bnagy: is #jruby still alive or is here a better bet?
[18:20:35] bnagy: drb is buggy under windows 32 vs 64 bit jre
[18:20:57] bnagy: which I'm sure is just going to be oodles of fun to debug
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[18:29:25] darceee: Does anybody know why some net-http methods return a truncated 'location' header when the response is a 30x redirect? Test code at https://gist.github.com/anonymous/36110931d81873bfc1eb
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[18:34:30] havenwood: lukas: I don't think it's been decided yet. Another possibility is something along the lines of Matz' Streem language: https://github.com/matz/streem#readme
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[18:35:46] lukas: havenwood: i saw that
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[18:35:53] lukas: what seems more likely, and is there some sort of timeline?
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[18:36:59] eam: darceee: you're sending two different queries
[18:37:04] eam: uri != uri.path
[18:37:35] eam: your first and last queries don't send any GET args
[18:37:43] eam: (so they don't appear in the redirect either)
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[18:39:25] eam: >> require 'uri'; uri = URI.parse 'http://support.apple.com/kb/image.jsp?productid=248P6K10OS&size=480x480'; [uri.inspect, uri.path]
[18:39:27] ruboto: eam # => ["#<URI::HTTP http://support.apple.com/kb/image.jsp?productid=248P6K10OS&size=480x480>", "/kb/image. ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413845)
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[18:41:34] havenwood: lukas: Koichi's idea is threads only being able to mutate objects they posses. Matz' idea is Streem. Hem, if I had to bet?
[18:42:05] havenwood: lukas: I'd guess several years out. Ruby 3.0.
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[18:43:19] darceee: eam: thank you... looking into it
[18:43:21] havenwood: lukas: I'd wager Streem-like.
[18:43:34] havenwood: lukas: But I don't know.
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[18:45:42] lukas: havenwood: cool, thank you!
[18:45:47] lukas: i am definitely excited for it
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[18:45:53] havenwood: lukas: yeah!
[18:46:24] havenwood: lukas: much faster, some static analysis, no GVL and higher-level concurrency abstraction - good stuff!
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[18:46:56] havenwood: though i'm not sure they're willing to accept an LLVM dependency
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[18:47:39] havenwood: Matz seemed very hesitant to get dependant.
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[18:48:56] eam: does ruby run on any platforms where llvm does not?
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[18:51:45] havenwood: https://github.com/imasahiro/rujit
[18:52:15] havenwood: eam: i dunno?
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[18:58:35] shevy: how about dos
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[19:03:22] eam: shevy: totes supports dos
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[19:05:00] eam: mabye only via llvm -> djgpp though
[19:06:28] shevy: what is a totes
[19:06:33] shevy: sounds like something to eat
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[19:29:00] lukas: it's totally but in a white girl way
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[19:29:06] lukas: *basic white girl
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[19:50:38] ellisTAA: does anyone know if there is a materialize channel?
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[19:52:29] Ox0dea: EllisTAA: No one here is particularly incorporeal?
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[19:55:39] eam: lukas: embrace my culture
[19:56:28] lukas: eam: wanna get some uggs and go to starbucks?
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[19:56:48] eam: do I ever
[19:57:04] Ox0dea: EllisTAA: Well, no, I suppose we all are, after a fashion.
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[19:57:38] ellisTAA: ox0dea: so opaque
[19:57:51] Ox0dea: EllisTAA: Most dictionaries are open 24/7.
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[19:58:28] lukas: eam: pumpkin spice season is coming!
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[19:58:56] millerti: In Ruby, can I index an enumerable? I want to get the n'th element. I can convert it to an array and index that, but is there a more direct way?
[19:59:05] Ox0dea: EllisTAA: The Materialize project uses Gitter: https://gitter.im/Dogfalo/materialize
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[19:59:21] ellisTAA: oxodea: thanks
[19:59:24] Ox0dea: millerti: enum.first(n).last should do.
[19:59:46] eam: lukas: no joke, I will be stocked up
[19:59:55] lukas: heh, me too actually
[20:00:00] millerti: Ox0dea: That would be faster than converting to an array first.
[20:00:05] lukas: but with mead and home brewed beer
[20:00:15] Ox0dea: millerti: It's not any more "direct", per se, but it'll save you having to enumerate the entire thing just to get the nth element.
[20:00:24] millerti: Actually, this is just curiosity. The arrays I'm dealing with have four elements, so none of this matters.
[20:00:30] Ox0dea: millerti: Yes, it would be significantly more performant for sufficiently large Enumerables.
[20:00:45] millerti: Ox0dea: Yes, which is why I'm asking.
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[20:01:04] Ox0dea: millerti: Premature optimization is next to godliness.
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[20:08:51] Ox0dea: millerti: Why a random-access Enumerable, anyway?
[20:09:05] Ox0dea: *Enumerator, probably.
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[20:09:33] millerti: Ox0dea: The enumerator is array.each_with_index which I then sort so I can find out which index has the highest value.
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[20:10:01] Ox0dea: millerti: So you have to enumerate the whole thing? Whence the need to do random access?
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[20:11:04] Ox0dea: >> [4, 2, 7, 1].each_with_index.sort_by(&:first).last.last
[20:11:05] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 2 (https://eval.in/413873)
[20:11:28] millerti: Ox0dea: In C, I'd write a loop over the array, keeping track of which index has the highest value. However, in Ruby, other approaches are faster and more compact.
[20:11:37] Ox0dea: Yes, see above. :)
[20:11:51] Ox0dea: You can't determine the maximum without checking every element.
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[20:11:54] millerti: Ox0dea: But then I realized that I wanted to max among the even indices and the max among the odd indices.
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[20:12:38] millerti: Ox0dea: I'm sure I'm doing it stupidly. :)
[20:12:41] Ox0dea: >> [4, 2, 7, 1].each_with_index.partition { |e, i| i.even? }.map { |c| c.last }.map(&:last)
[20:12:42] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [2, 3] (https://eval.in/413874)
[20:12:47] Ox0dea: That's about as clean as it'll get, I reckon.
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[20:13:13] Ox0dea: Erm, not sure why I opened a block for that penultimate #last, but you get the idea.
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[20:17:56] Ox0dea: I realize now that I didn't do any sorting there. Jeeze.
[20:18:13] millerti: Ox0dea: Here's what I did: [out_changed.each_with_index.to_a[0], out_changed.each_with_index.to_a[2]].max[1]
[20:18:30] millerti: Surely the stupidest possible way.
[20:19:12] Ox0dea: That doesn't find the maximum even- and odd-indexed elements, though?
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[20:28:34] Ox0dea: [k-: You're in the ChangeLog!
[20:29:14] headius: bnagy: #jruby is quite alive and well, and that sounds weird
[20:29:25] headius: may have to do with falling back to non-native behavior on one or the other
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[20:46:17] atmosx: ACTION Judas Priest - nightcrawler
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[20:49:53] RickHull: i'd like to make a usage function that knows about opts without making opts global or passing it explicitly: https://gist.github.com/rickhull/4bcbc7debbcaf7e635ff
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[20:53:37] RickHull: any preference? other options?
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[20:56:11] centrx: Use a class?
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[20:59:10] RickHull: ok... not what I was expecting. for a usage function?
[20:59:54] centrx: I thought slop automatically shows a usage function
[20:59:58] shevy: at the simplest case, the class allows easy re-use
[21:00:29] shevy: you can also store @vars in them; class Foo; @use_slop; def self.use_slop?; @use_slop
[21:00:48] shevy: and you can use usage[] too
[21:00:55] shevy: class Foo; def self.[](i = '')
[21:00:59] shevy: well, almost
[21:01:11] shevy: on a per object basis it's def [](i) then
[21:01:23] shevy: I misread usage[] as Usage[]
[21:02:16] RickHull: i don't like the square bracket notation for calling a proc
[21:02:51] RickHull: but it's the least bad option there
[21:03:18] RickHull: i'm definitely not going to be defining and instantiating a class for a usage function
[21:03:30] RickHull: anyways, feedback appreciated :)
[21:05:07] RickHull: centrx: yes, that's the `puts self` portion. i also want to optionally print an error message and exit with an error code
[21:05:50] baweaver: >> class F;def initialize;@a=[] end; def [](i) @a[i] end; def []=(i,o) @a[i]=o end end; f=F.new;f[0]=1;f
[21:05:52] ruboto: baweaver # => #<F:0x4232bcec @a=[1]> (https://eval.in/413909)
[21:06:11] RickHull: old macdonald had a farm.. :)
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[21:06:46] Ox0dea: `i`ndex and `o`bject, surely.
[21:07:36] Ox0dea: I ain't never seen no farmer tendin' no indices nor objects, but I's figgerin' there must be one somewheres.
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[21:08:49] RickHull: i is for irrigation, and o the crOp each irrigation lane feeds
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[21:10:10] baweaver: other, but anyways
[21:11:35] shevy: and beavers
[21:11:46] shevy: what a dam great team
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[21:13:01] RickHull: do otters dam? outside Rotterdam?
[21:14:00] Ox0dea: baweaver: You consider #[]= to be a binop?
[21:14:22] baweaver: technically
[21:14:29] Ox0dea: Not really, though?
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[21:14:46] baweaver: not sure I have a good answer on that
[21:14:50] baweaver: haven't given it much thought
[21:15:28] Ox0dea: Having an LHS and an RHS does not a binop make.
[21:16:00] Ox0dea: It's a necessary condition, obviously, but not a sufficient one.
[21:16:09] baweaver: is + unary when in the form 1 + 3?
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[21:16:49] baweaver: that'd be the only reason I'd be inclined to think of it as binary
[21:16:51] Ox0dea: By (what I understand to be) your logic, all method calls are binops, and that can't be right.
[21:17:01] baweaver: clarify then
[21:17:09] baweaver: half paying attention to this if I'm being honest.
[21:17:35] Ox0dea: What are the operands in `foo[bar] = baz`?
[21:18:08] shevy: method calls!
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[21:19:15] Ox0dea: Google gives garbage for "trinop".
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[21:20:07] Mon_Ouie: Well there are things called ternary operators. But one ternary operator shadows all the others.
[21:20:29] Ox0dea: That went well.
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[21:24:57] RickHull: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spraint
[21:25:43] Ox0dea: The pormanteau of "spray" and "paint" does not mean what I would have thought it does.
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[21:26:32] RickHull: aerosol spraint could be an effective deterrent
[21:26:51] Ox0dea: There's "guano" and "spraint"; are there other specifc names for fecal matter?
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[21:27:26] RickHull: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feces
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[21:29:04] Ox0dea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulus_(theory) puts me in mind of "A Modest Proposal".
[21:29:27] dudedudeman: wait. someone said fecal matter
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[21:29:41] Ox0dea: Do you reckon Ruby will use NIST's reference implementation of SHA3?
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[21:53:16] RickHull: I wasn't sure how we would segue from fecal matter, but that was brilliant
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[22:13:53] shevy: dudedudeman just isn't awake yet
[22:14:04] shevy: it's just like havenwood without coffee
[22:14:12] dudedudeman: i had coffee once
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[22:15:16] shevy: perhaps coffee has a different effect on you than it has on havenwood
[22:15:21] shevy: I can't work with coffee :(
[22:16:16] dudedudeman: it's calming and stuff
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[22:19:25] Ox0dea: What does "had coffee once" mean?
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[22:21:06] RickHull: consumed java at a single moment in the past?
[22:21:39] shevy: he had one coffee today
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[22:22:02] shevy: the language of the dudedude is a simple one, it is understandable that the Oracle has difficulties with such mundane a words
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[22:22:32] dudedudeman: words are fluffy. not one of you needs them
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[22:22:34] Ox0dea: It's a grammatically correct expression, but the meaning is admittedly lost on me.
[22:22:48] shevy: have some more beer Ox0dea
[22:22:55] Ox0dea: I drink whiskey.
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[22:23:22] dudedudeman: why not both?
[22:23:22] Ox0dea: dudedudeman: To clarify, you drank coffee and then concluded that you did not wish to ever drink any more coffee?
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[22:24:04] shevy: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/ChangeLog huh did [k- get in a patch?
[22:24:08] dudedudeman: no, there was just one time that i drank coffee. there were other times, but there was specifically that one time
[22:24:18] Ox0dea: shevy: Your turn!
[22:24:28] shevy: he upped the ante
[22:24:40] dudedudeman: i support you, shevy
[22:24:45] dudedudeman: all the patches!
[22:24:47] shevy: was it a particularly good coffee dudedudeman?
[22:24:53] shevy: well, I am patching my own stuff
[22:25:03] dudedudeman: i like all the coffees
[22:25:15] shevy: I wrote a lot of things that were really really awful
[22:25:22] dudedudeman: been there. still there
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[22:47:55] snockerton: how do i reference the class name from within the class
[22:48:05] snockerton: class SpecialClass
[22:48:13] snockerton: puts __CLASSNAME__
[22:48:18] snockerton: or something
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[22:48:41] BraddPitt: >> class SpecialClass; puts self; end
[22:48:42] ruboto: BraddPitt # => SpecialClass ...check link for more (https://eval.in/413942)
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[22:48:49] snockerton: never thought about that
[22:49:07] BraddPitt: i forget what the exact method call on self object is
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[22:49:50] RickHull: SpecialClass.name
[22:51:16] BraddPitt: self.name then
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[22:51:30] shevy: >> class Foo; end; Foo.name.class
[22:51:31] ruboto: shevy # => String (https://eval.in/413943)
[22:51:36] shevy: self is then a String?
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[22:52:08] BraddPitt: do you mean because I wrote `puts self` /
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[22:52:22] shevy: no you wrote the method call on self object
[22:52:34] BraddPitt: can't you do self.name?
[22:52:52] BraddPitt: (your eval.in isnt loading for me)
[22:53:00] BraddPitt: and im too lazy to boot up irb
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[22:54:54] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: Huh? That's what ruboto is for?
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[22:55:31] BraddPitt: yes Ox0dea im saying the eval.in output wasnt resolving for me
[22:55:35] Ox0dea: >> class Foo; $n = name; end; $n
[22:55:36] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "Foo" (https://eval.in/413946)
[22:55:43] BraddPitt: i'm an idiot
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[22:56:28] BraddPitt: what were you questioning, shevy?
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[22:57:19] shevy: not sure, I may have misread it. I thought you meant a method call that would yield the self object
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[22:59:24] Ox0dea: >> class Foo; $r = binding.receiver end; $r # shevy
[22:59:24] ruboto: Ox0dea # => Foo (https://eval.in/413947)
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[23:00:47] shevy: I see what you did there
[23:01:02] shevy: you like global variables like $10 after all
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[23:04:23] postmodern: what is a good library to validate correctness of markdown? kramdown seems to silently give up on malformed markdown
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[23:08:30] bazbing80: Syntax for Thor's no method is no?(statement, color=nil) and yet no? 'hello', 'yellow' prints yellowhello to the console and it's white, not yellow
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[23:13:56] Ox0dea: Is there some clever way to implement to_base(n) tail-recursively without #unshift?
[23:18:17] darix: Ox0dea: to_i(n) ?
[23:21:08] Ox0dea: darix: I'm asking about to_s(n) in this case.
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[23:22:27] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: I'm just wondering if this algorithm can be improved upon. ^_^ http://i.imgur.com/cDnbeEA.png
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[23:37:38] BraddPitt: jesus christ that font Ox0dea
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[23:39:30] darix: Ox0dea: so like this?
[23:39:37] darix: >> "%x" % 1023
[23:39:38] ruboto: darix # => "3ff" (https://eval.in/413948)
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[23:41:42] Ox0dea: darix: https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/c293075fd688066179b4 is the typical implementation, I think, but the inner call isn't in tail position.
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[23:42:56] Ox0dea: The solution is String#prepend in Ruby, but many languages don't have such a feature.
[23:43:14] Ox0dea: That also doesn't *really* put the call in tail position.
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[23:45:18] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: I think that font goes rather well with LOLCODE.
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