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#ruby - 08 August 2015

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[00:53:33] shevy: should a per-project directory for documentation rather be called "documentation/" or "doc/", in regards to it being a ruby project?
[00:56:37] drbrain: there's a long tradition of "doc"
[00:57:04] Ox0dea: shevy: Do you use "library" or "lib"? "extension" or "ext"? "binaries" or "bin"?
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[00:57:21] shevy: Ox0dea yeah I shorten all of them
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[00:57:46] Ox0dea: shevy: Then whence comes your question?
[00:57:56] shevy: Because I wanted to get feedback
[00:58:05] Ox0dea: >> Dir['/*'].count { |d| d.size == 4 }
[00:58:06] ruboto: Ox0dea # => (https://eval.in/413949)
[00:58:26] Ox0dea: Anyway, three-letter abbreviations have a long history.
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[00:59:12] Ox0dea: Flout convention and heritage at your peril.
[00:59:24] Ox0dea: astrobunny: That's an initialism.
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[01:28:19] pontiki: are we back on initialisms and acronyms? :)
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[01:44:09] shevy: great name for a programming language
[01:44:18] Ox0dea: Which is that?
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[01:44:50] pontiki: successor to b
[01:46:03] Ox0dea: > B is almost extinct
[01:46:20] Ox0dea: "Almost"?
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[02:17:03] shevy: methods.rb:126:in `write': deadlock; recursive locking (ThreadError)
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[02:17:09] shevy: awww I can produce so beautiful error messages
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[02:18:35] fenjamin: just interviewed for my first contracting position - need a compelling prompt to show my skills.
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[02:19:29] Radar: fenjamin: Are you Markov'ing again?
[02:19:43] Radar: wtf is a "compelling prompt"?
[02:22:35] fenjamin: beyond FizzBuzz
[02:23:29] fenjamin: something with unique solutions
[02:23:32] Radar: fenjamin: lol
[02:23:42] Radar: fenjamin: If you're going to continue to be vague, you can go on my /ignore list. Final chance?
[02:24:07] Radar: Maybe try solving the Traveling Salesman Problem
[02:24:48] Ox0dea: fenjamin: Prove that 3-SAT is in P.
[02:25:15] Radar: Determine if the universe is finite or infinite
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[02:25:38] Radar: Once you're done there, I have a question I'd like to ask about the existence or non-existence of a certain deity
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[02:27:00] fenjamin: identity and existence are judeo-christian constructs. only in islam do we not exist.
[02:29:05] Radar: -q al2o3-cr!*@*
[02:29:53] Ox0dea: The FSM and the IPU constitute The Holy Binity.
[02:29:57] Ox0dea: All other idols are false.
[02:30:49] shevy: fenjamin can't you showcase some projects instead?
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[02:32:43] fenjamin: point is something I can express in code - something like print a bingo board
[02:32:50] fenjamin: but perhaps more compelling
[02:33:23] fenjamin: projects are under development - long term portfolio - nothing much immediate
[02:35:21] fenjamin: innocuous to show embouchure
[02:35:36] shevy: are you drunk
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[02:37:20] fenjamin: i would like something of a bit more substance
[02:41:14] fenjamin: possibly. could use more investigation.
[02:41:19] Ox0dea: fenjamin: Write a brainfuck interpreter.
[02:41:41] Ox0dea: It's what I use to familiarize myself with new languages.
[02:42:06] fenjamin: i'll call it "mindsex"
[02:42:38] Ox0dea: "Neurological sodomy" = "neurodomy".
[02:42:43] Ox0dea: But don't.
[02:42:52] fenjamin: cheers, off to research and investigate
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[02:45:32] shevy: now that was actually a great conversation between fenjamin and Ox0dea
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[02:52:25] BradKuntz: what is ops?
[02:53:03] RickHull: plural of op, for operator, generally
[02:53:15] RickHull: or could mean operations. or operations per second
[02:53:22] BradKuntz: who's trying to call someone?
[02:53:32] BradKuntz: i thought operators are obsolete now
[02:53:44] RickHull: IRC channel admins are referred to as operators
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[03:10:53] diegoviola: https://github.com/ramaze/ramaze <-- is that project dead?
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[03:12:42] diegoviola: last release was from 2012?
[03:12:54] RickHull: last commit early 2014
[03:13:14] diegoviola: I remember using ramaze one or two times, I really enjoyed using it
[03:13:56] RickHull: yorickpeterse: ?
[03:15:15] Ox0dea: RickHull: ?
[03:15:30] RickHull: pinging ramaze committers
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[03:22:38] [k-: yorickpeterse will be here in a quarter of a day!
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[03:27:15] Ox0dea: And he will say "morning".
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[03:28:22] RickHull: and someone will link http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
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[03:29:43] Ox0dea: RickHull: No, that's for when somebody *doesn't* say "morning".
[03:29:47] [k-: no, that is hardly a thing
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[03:29:54] Ox0dea: [k-: You take that back!
[03:30:15] [k-: here, i mean, cuz everyone says morning
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[03:31:51] Ox0dea: http://whatdoestheinternetthink.net/ruby
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[04:31:45] bricker: ready for a silly question.... is there a built-in way to get an OpenStruct-style syntax but that raises NoMethodErrors instead of nil? I'm doing a simple enum
[04:32:23] [k-: a Struct?
[04:32:36] RickHull: how do you want to access struct members?
[04:32:40] RickHull: dot or brackets?
[04:33:10] bricker: RickHull: Dots. I'm trying to replicate Java's enums, I know it's not idiomatic but I'm bored :P
[04:33:33] bricker: So, CoolEnum.ListeItemA, CoolEnum.ListItemB
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[04:34:01] bricker: I know there are 100 ways to do it besides Openstruct
[04:34:36] [k-: don't structs already provide those
[04:35:16] bricker: yes but I think I'd have to define the struct somewhere before making an instance of it, that's what I'm trying to avoid
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[04:35:40] RickHull: i think you can define it when you instantiate it
[04:35:45] RickHull: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/Struct.html
[04:36:24] bricker: Basically this what I have now and it's fine but I don't like that missing methods return nil, I'd rather them return a NoMethodError https://gist.github.com/bricker/82415e1e5a6fcd28f1a6
[04:36:37] bricker: RickHull: can you? I looked through it but didn't see that, must have missed i
[04:37:13] RickHull: make sure you understand Struct vs OpenStruct
[04:37:22] RickHull: (not saying I do)
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[04:37:45] RickHull: [k-: probably has better advice. i am stabbing wildly :)
[04:39:03] [k-: do you have specific reasons to use ostruct?
[04:39:05] RickHull: your gist would be more helpful if you showed usage examples. things you like, things you don't
[04:39:44] bricker: [k-: Just that it's succinct
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[04:40:21] bricker: RickHull: check it out: https://gist.github.com/bricker/82415e1e5a6fcd28f1a6
[04:42:21] Ox0dea: bricker: https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/d5f9e5810b2d23058f62
[04:42:52] bricker: Ox0dea: yeah that's good, maybe I'll do that
[04:42:57] Ox0dea: Consider just not.
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[04:43:13] bricker: Ox0dea: See: "bored" (adj.)
[04:43:57] RickHull: also: "bored" (p. verb)
[04:44:42] bricker: as in, "my job bored me into writing bad ruby"
[04:45:07] RickHull: or, my ruby bored a hole into my desktop
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[04:53:18] [k-: why not just a symbol even
[04:53:24] [k-: that is the most Ruby-ish
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[05:07:23] JDeen: Hi there. I have a question about Yard documentation. I have a method like `def format_date(time = Time.now, precision: :day)` where precision can be :day, :month, :year. How do I document he `precision` parameter using Yard
[05:07:42] JDeen: This can have one of many options
[05:07:47] JDeen: thanks in advance
[05:08:04] JDeen: Hope you guys are having a wonderful evening
[05:09:10] JDeen: Oh it was on top as an example, looks like it has to be general... @param format [Symbol] the format type, `:text` or `:html`
[05:09:40] JDeen: sorry for the ping
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[05:13:09] RickHull: i have a devops-y question, open-ended
[05:13:34] RickHull: i've got apps that are logging to the filesystem, and they threaten to fill local disks
[05:13:57] RickHull: i could do local logrotation, but i'm thinking that log shipping is the right approach
[05:14:12] RickHull: i could do something really hacky right now like a stupid crontab entry to delete old logs
[05:14:40] RickHull: am I a bad person for not implementing the hacky solution, in order that the pain increases to reach the threshold for implementing log shipping once and for all?
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[05:20:59] Ox0dea: RickHull: Do you know for certain that you'll be able to absorb the requisite postage and delivery charges?
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[05:21:22] Ox0dea: Do you intend to ship these logs internationally?
[05:21:39] RickHull: no, a logstash instance per DC is the plan
[05:21:44] RickHull: i.e. ship only across a LAN
[05:22:14] RickHull: and logstash can aggressively drop log entries when it's near capacity
[05:22:58] RickHull: could be Apache Flume, btw. any fans?
[05:23:43] RickHull: also, for a let's say 100 machines logging to a central box
[05:24:09] RickHull: any opinions on UDP logging, versus say 100 TCP connections with streaming writes
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[05:25:03] RickHull: in my experience, i can write thousands of messages per sec to a TCP socket, if i'm not waiting on responses. possibly millions and beyond. hard to tell from a client perspective when a byte actually hits the network
[05:26:05] [k-: http://www.ozonehouse.com/mark/periodic/
[05:26:22] RickHull: (of course it goes without saying that TCP connections have streaming writes. but not if you're in a req/resp mindset; for writing logs to a TCP socket, i would delimit messages by newlines softly)
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[05:27:54] RickHull: i'm sure UDP has ultimately higher throughput
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[05:28:02] RickHull: but i'd like to know when I'm missing log entries
[05:28:25] RickHull: and I think basic log streaming over TCP should be able to saturate available bandwidth as well as UDP
[05:30:53] Ox0dea: > mfw this isn't the collection of operators from every language combined
[05:31:08] Ox0dea: [k-: Tangentially, this is the same M. Lentczner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FagOVqxmI
[05:31:13] RickHull: it looks C-oriented to my eyes. though maybe general ASM?
[05:31:22] RickHull: i was wondering how it holds up in a Brave New Rust World
[05:31:24] Ox0dea: RickHull: Every single one of those operators is in Perl 6.
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[05:32:32] Ox0dea: Perl 6 has `.=`! ;'(
[05:32:51] RickHull: i can has a sad?
[05:33:03] Ox0dea: It's something I've always wanted.
[05:33:08] Ox0dea: In C first, then Ruby.
[05:33:20] Ox0dea: `node->=next` is gorgeous.
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[05:33:57] [k-: perl6 isnt ready yet :(
[05:34:07] [k-: it has been a looooooooong journey
[05:35:28] RickHull: when will ruby run on parrot?
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[05:37:12] RickHull: i'll settle for ruby 1.8.4
[05:38:42] RickHull: http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/docs/book/pct/ch03_compiler_tools.pod.html ctrl-f ruby OK
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[05:40:21] RickHull: btw nearly 10y anniversary for 1.8.4 https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2005/12/24/ruby-184-released/
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[05:43:09] Ox0dea: RickHull: OBTW, https://github.com/parrot/lolcode
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[05:48:39] RickHull: https://github.com/parrot/lolcode/blob/master/TODO lol
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[05:52:05] RickHull: btw copyright clearly expired in 2006 so go to town on copypasta
[05:52:09] RickHull: https://github.com/parrot/lolcode/blob/master/LICENSE
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[05:52:36] Ox0dea: RickHull: What's there to copy?
[05:52:48] RickHull: https://github.com/parrot/lolcode/tree/master/src
[05:53:01] Ox0dea: https://github.com/justinmeza/lci
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[05:53:22] RickHull: too bad that one expired in 2014
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[05:55:36] RickHull: btw, noticing that parrot has lots of trac references. how crappy was the trac timing. right when svn starts to mature and needs an ecosystem, trac comes out and owns everything
[05:55:46] RickHull: except for this little budding idea of a project called git
[05:56:02] bnagy: not how copyright works, yo
[05:56:25] RickHull: bnagy: if only the license writers would recognize it
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[05:56:54] Ox0dea: WTFPL all the things!
[05:56:58] RickHull: is the term of the copyright notice binding or not?
[05:57:06] RickHull: if not, then why include it?
[05:57:10] bnagy: it's not a term, it's a range
[05:57:12] RickHull: if so, then yeah, ur fukt
[05:57:23] RickHull: term, meaning period of time
[05:57:30] bnagy: yes, I know
[05:57:32] bnagy: it's not one
[05:57:40] RickHull: what's the distinction?
[05:57:58] bnagy: the 'term' of something is a start end, for me
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[05:58:07] RickHull: sounds like a range, for mew
[05:58:20] bnagy: (c) 2000 - 2005 is a range of years in which copyrighted work has been created
[05:58:30] RickHull: i'd say it describes a term
[05:58:30] bnagy: the term of the copyright is normal copyright
[05:59:09] RickHull: so the declared range is the creation range, not the copyright protection range
[05:59:18] bnagy: IANAL so I don't know wtf the range is supposed to do
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[05:59:36] bnagy: all I know is the copyright starts from the creation date and goes until Disney changes the law
[05:59:46] RickHull: yep, that's my understanding
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[06:01:10] RickHull: Ox0dea: i'd be a fan of WTFPL if it didn't raise more questions than it answered
[06:01:10] bnagy: I guess it's just "multiple creation" or something like when you paint a picture it's done, but software is like you start on a canvas and every year you add or paint over new parts, and each of those works are (c)
[06:01:25] RickHull: bnagy: my ultimate critique targets IP as a whole
[06:01:33] RickHull: i'm a fan of IP creators
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[06:01:40] bnagy: the really dumb thing imho is when people (c) but don't license
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[06:01:54] RickHull: but i don't believe our IP regime or conceptual model is quite right
[06:01:56] bnagy: well, for software anyway
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[06:02:38] [k-: copyright expires 70 years after creation
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[06:03:03] RickHull: until Mickey dies again
[06:03:06] RickHull: then it will be extended
[06:03:11] bnagy: [k-: that's not the case
[06:03:25] [k-: that's from what i know!
[06:03:32] bnagy: ok well what you know is wrong
[06:03:37] RickHull: it's obviously subject to sovereign bounds
[06:03:40] [k-: or is it 70 years after the author died
[06:03:42] RickHull: national laws, treaties, etc
[06:04:13] [k-: maybe it's 70 years in Singapore?
[06:04:24] RickHull: btw, my favorite fun game in the US, year-round these days, is trick-or-treaty?
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[06:04:35] RickHull: we can play it with SOPA
[06:04:40] bnagy: [k-: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths
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[06:04:54] bnagy: .sg is Life+X but "it's complicated" apparently
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[06:05:30] [k-: http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=0d7b8d48-b41d-4d2b-8b79-2ae8523fb062;page=0;query=DocId%3A"e20124e1-6616-4dc5-865f-c83553293ed3"%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0#pr28-he-.
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[06:05:40] RickHull: .sg is the classic place that would sentence to you life in prison *plus* XX years
[06:05:46] [k-: from .gov.sg itself!
[06:06:03] dbussink: has joined #ruby
[06:06:10] [k-: thats your fault for commiting crimes in the first place
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[06:07:04] RickHull: look, i'm into caning as a lifestyle. it's worth chewing gum here and there
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[06:07:40] [k-: Singapore forever!
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[06:10:24] RickHull: btw, my query is: `aaron sopa +tpp` shouldn't that mandate `tpp` in query results?
[06:10:25] RickHull: https://www.google.com/search?q=aaron+sopa+tpp&oq=aaron+sopa+tpp&aqs=chrome..69i57.3007j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=aaron+sopa+%2Btpp+
[06:10:40] RickHull: (no quotes in the query)
[06:10:52] Ox0dea: I made LOLCODE "functional": https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/39ab54fc8f5a06a89aaa
[06:11:12] [k-: not sure i want to see it
[06:11:24] [k-: im going to click it anyway
[06:11:26] RickHull: oh, nevermind my previous question. i think google deprecated leading-plus in favor of surrounding-quotes
[06:11:50] Ox0dea: [k-: Only #map and #each at the moment.
[06:12:34] Ox0dea: That lci properly supports functions as arguments = <3
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[06:12:39] bnagy: RickHull: I think they just weakened it
[06:13:02] bnagy: like "hahaha yeah you _say_ you want only that, but we didn't find much, sooo....
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[06:13:18] bnagy: because leading - still "works" to an extent
[06:13:51] [k-: not many people know what they want
[06:13:55] [k-: only google knows...
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[06:16:47] RickHull: i work in search at a much smaller scale than google
[06:16:59] RickHull: and i now see anti-features in google
[06:17:04] RickHull: that we have implemented ourselves
[06:17:13] RickHull: basically getting away from pure relevance
[06:17:19] RickHull: and into CTR and CPC
[06:17:40] [k-: much jargon indeed
[06:17:47] RickHull: for instance, aggressively substituting search terms for more generic, mainstream results
[06:17:48] Ox0dea: [k-: Pretty: http://jsfiddle.net/Lf5cbgw7/
[06:18:00] Ox0dea: RickHull: Are you sure that's an anti-feature?
[06:18:07] RickHull: this is useful for 80% of the population, but actively harmful to the 20% of engineers looking for exact matches
[06:18:30] Ox0dea: "" to the rescue!
[06:18:41] RickHull: unfortunately it's no longer the case
[06:18:51] [k-: it still is?
[06:18:54] Ox0dea: Yes, it is.
[06:19:07] RickHull: i have several recent examples, confirmed but can't recall, where google did not respect the quoted search terms
[06:19:18] RickHull: did an active and obvious query replacement
[06:19:26] Ox0dea: Bollocks.
[06:19:34] RickHull: Ox0dea: how would you know?
[06:19:51] Ox0dea: RickHull: Prove me wrong?
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[06:19:58] RickHull: like i said, zero recall
[06:20:02] Ox0dea: Then shut the fuck up?
[06:20:03] RickHull: but i'll queue them up
[06:20:06] Ox0dea: Please do.
[06:20:11] RickHull: wow, defensive much?
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[06:20:33] Ox0dea: Much unsubstantianted drivel.
[06:20:47] RickHull: i'll cop to that, until i substantiate it :)
[06:21:30] RickHull: question still stands, how would you know? i can guess
[06:21:41] Ox0dea: I'm genuinely interested in any terms which legitimately subvert Google's quoting semantics.
[06:21:46] RickHull: and I respect the wisdom that comes from my guess
[06:22:16] RickHull: i think it's a recent thing, honestly
[06:22:22] RickHull: like within the last 6 months
[06:22:33] [k-: ACTION brings out the google operators
[06:23:17] RickHull: until there is an actual case, which is on me to provide, i fully agree it's much ado about nothing
[06:23:31] RickHull: i just haven't been saving them :)
[06:23:37] Ox0dea: Misinformation is worse than silence.
[06:23:45] RickHull: fair enough
[06:24:14] RickHull: i was actually trolling (in the best sense of the term) to see if anyone sympathized
[06:24:26] Ox0dea: > I was only pretending to be retarded.
[06:24:32] RickHull: no, not that sense
[06:24:47] [k-: https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433
[06:24:55] RickHull: literally "hey guys i've had a bad experience with google, anyone else can confirm?"
[06:25:07] [k-: that won't save you!
[06:25:28] [k-: ACTION hangs in conversation up on a wall
[06:25:29] Ox0dea: [k-: I used their "imagine all the people" example and got dragons?
[06:26:02] RickHull: to my recollection, i had several solr error messages, verbatim within quotes, and got search results that did not include the quoted portions
[06:26:21] RickHull: and in fact had highlighted alternate versions of my quoted portion
[06:26:44] RickHull: (which I did not want; was not relevant)
[06:27:12] RickHull: that said, i'll happily shut up until i can repro
[06:27:21] Ox0dea: The likelihood of PEBKAC seems extremely high, if you don't mind my saying so.
[06:27:26] [k-: Ox0dea: i got the song
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[06:27:29] RickHull: don't disagree :)
[06:28:02] [k-: use the - search operator
[06:28:08] [k-: chain everything!
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[06:28:43] RickHull: in frustration, i've done things like -"hate this no more" and +"please give it to me"
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[06:29:13] Ox0dea: DDG bangs largely obviate the need for subtractive terms.
[06:29:24] RickHull: i've used DDG in anger in response
[06:29:42] bnagy: "error code -90" strips punctuation at least
[06:29:44] RickHull: my sense was they are better in respecting the query, but worse in the results / ranking
[06:30:00] Ox0dea: That's about the size of it.
[06:30:06] RickHull: (only for the narrow queries that were frustrating me with google)
[06:30:08] Ox0dea: For specialized queries, though, it's quite nice.
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[06:32:03] RickHull: oh, DDG bangs, i missed the bangs part
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[06:35:28] RickHull: having lots of trouble replicating the recalled behavior, FWIW
[06:35:49] RickHull: it does appear to me that google.com is respecting quoted queries as expected
[06:37:12] [k-: it's just your imagination
[06:37:32] RickHull: that said, i my disappointment in google was infrequent and based on idiosyncratic queries
[06:37:39] [k-: although irb was giving me hell when i couldn't require anything
[06:37:42] RickHull: [k-: that's the tough part
[06:38:42] [k-: Rust 1.2 is out
[06:38:54] RickHull: i have a very strong recollection of providing a query, and then a plausible replacement query (substituting for my own) ended up highlighted in the response
[06:39:04] RickHull: my actual query was not present in the response
[06:39:43] RickHull: [k-: where are you based out of? just curious if you don't mind
[06:41:21] [k-: based out of isn't legal in my language parser
[06:41:27] [k-: what do you mean?
[06:41:53] RickHull: well if i asked where are you, you might say lucerne or nyc
[06:42:01] RickHull: traveling...
[06:42:19] RickHull: what is your home location, as you define it?
[06:42:34] [k-: Singapore
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[06:43:11] RickHull: ah, have you visited Borneo?
[06:43:13] shock_one: has joined #ruby
[06:45:11] RickHull: i am very interested in the region, historically. philippines, new guinea, singapore, indonesia, polynesia etc
[06:45:41] RickHull: myself i am based in conti-us
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[06:45:54] RickHull: have never visited southern hemisphere (yet)
[06:47:19] Ox0dea: Singapore is in the Northern Hemisphere, for what that's worth.
[06:47:31] RickHull: dang, how far?
[06:47:35] Ox0dea: Not very.
[06:48:14] [k-: 1 degree north
[06:48:21] [k-: and 22 minutes
[06:48:30] RickHull: i think east asia is the new meta
[06:48:53] Ox0dea: !xkcd 1560
[06:49:04] RickHull: you have cheap labor in proximity with extreme capitalism
[06:49:06] Ox0dea: [k-: The first panel is practically oxymoronic in Singapore. :P
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[06:50:52] Ox0dea: "One day [Learn You a Haskell] will be my retirement reading." -- PM Loong
[06:51:07] Ox0dea: [k-: I have little trouble imagining how much you love that.
[06:51:28] einarj: has joined #ruby
[06:51:41] [k-: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1560:_Bubblegum
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[06:52:04] [k-: Because Haskell is the language
[06:52:13] [k-: Haskell is The One
[06:52:22] RickHull: i heard Elixir is the1
[06:52:44] Ox0dea: Lisp is immortal.
[06:52:51] [k-: your face
[06:52:57] Ox0dea: "What is dead may never die."
[06:53:02] RickHull: everyone needs syntax at some point
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[06:53:11] Ox0dea: There's Clojure for that.
[06:53:17] [k-: perl has a lot of syntax
[06:53:27] [k-: so many operators >.>
[06:53:40] [k-: much more than Haskell's Prelude
[06:54:02] [k-: Perl 5 took 27 years
[06:54:17] [k-: how many years have Perl 6 been in existence?
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[06:54:29] bnagy: RickHull: .sg is like SE Asia with training wheels. It's a good place to start if you're never been anywhere :P
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[06:55:59] [k-: perl is a family of languages
[06:56:04] [k-: like lisp!
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[06:58:01] RickHull: perl is like lisp instead of an abhorrence of syntax an orgy
[06:58:31] [k-: (your sentence)2complex4me
[06:58:41] RickHull: $%^#&%$%^$&%^
[06:58:44] RickHull: ^ valid perl
[06:58:57] omegamike: has joined #ruby
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[06:59:24] RickHull: (not really)
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[06:59:40] RickHull: (hopefully illustrative)
[06:59:43] Ox0dea: RickHull must not be familiar with my non-alphanumeric adventures.
[06:59:53] RickHull: thankfully, presumably
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[07:00:31] [k-: i have a minimal collection
[07:00:42] [k-: Perl looks like apl
[07:00:46] Ox0dea: RickHull: Almost certainly. Knowing that non-alphanumeric Ruby is Turing-complete is a bit like Roko's basilisk.
[07:00:48] [k-: with more alphanums
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[07:01:46] RickHull: Ox0dea: lots of references that i dont follow (yet) :)
[07:02:20] RickHull: [k-: yeah APL is cool in terms of succinctness. which is valuable. but very shitty on the SICP metric
[07:03:10] [k-: SCIP????
[07:03:16] [k-: SICP???
[07:03:32] RickHull: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/front/node3.html ctrl-f incidentally
[07:03:54] Ox0dea: RickHull: Familiar with "can't unsee"?
[07:03:59] RickHull: > Thus, programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.
[07:04:23] RickHull: Ox0dea: as a trope, sure
[07:04:32] RickHull: not sure the origin
[07:04:36] Ox0dea: RickHull: Well, Roko's basilisk is sort of a "can't un-know" kind of thing.
[07:04:45] RickHull: inneresting
[07:04:47] Ox0dea: Into which category I believe Ruby's non-alphanumeric Turing-completeness fits.
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[07:05:20] RickHull: google's top hit: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk
[07:05:25] Ox0dea: That'd be the one.
[07:05:29] Ox0dea: Tread lightly.
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[07:05:35] [k-: i dislike perl 5 already
[07:05:36] Ox0dea: [k-: You haven't into SICP at all?!
[07:05:47] [k-: my brain hurts
[07:05:57] [k-: why would globals be the default choice
[07:06:05] RickHull: i have (historically) found rationalwiki.org to be (ironically) somewhat irrational
[07:06:27] Ox0dea: [k-: The first three chapters are... approachable.
[07:06:50] Ox0dea: [k-: Immutable globals are nowhere near as insidious.
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[07:07:20] RickHull: Ox0dea: big fan of LW/EY incidentally
[07:07:26] [k-: :o perl has immutability?
[07:07:48] bnagy: so is there any New Hotness in simple ruby RPC?
[07:07:51] [k-: perl's syntax is no where as elegant as haskell though
[07:08:00] [k-: wheres the perl 6 :(
[07:08:15] RickHull: what is perl 6?
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[07:09:03] RickHull: an excrement of one larry wall?
[07:09:51] [k-: excrement sounds so wrong
[07:09:59] RickHull: it is, i'm being unfair
[07:11:14] RickHull: let me say: i have used perl in anger and excitement to good effect many times
[07:11:36] RickHull: PCREs are pretty cool
[07:11:51] RickHull: so is while <> as a pseudo-idiom
[07:12:14] RickHull: (did i even get that right?)
[07:12:17] Ox0dea: [k-: I thought you were referring to Scheme in your decrial of global variables.
[07:13:05] sivoais: yes, while( <> ){ ... } # unix-y file/stdin handling
[07:13:05] [k-: I'm looking at perl
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[07:13:45] RickHull: sivoais: ARGF too
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[07:14:42] RickHull: Ox0dea: funny, i was searching anissimov drama earlier. any comment?
[07:15:28] Ox0dea: RickHull: I've no idea what that is.
[07:15:39] sivoais: @ARGV and @F :-P # perldoc perlvar
[07:16:11] RickHull: Ox0dea: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk ctrl-f aniss
[07:16:36] Ox0dea: s/ctrl-f/\//
[07:17:00] RickHull: yes but how will the redditors follow along?
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[07:19:07] RickHull: this is a fun one, related: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/AI-box_experiment
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[07:23:00] [k-: perl 6, 15 years
[07:23:14] RickHull: is that an ETA?
[07:23:37] bruno-: has joined #ruby
[07:23:46] [k-: it has been alive for 15 years
[07:24:01] RickHull: has it been viable?
[07:24:03] [k-: it seems it will be released in December this year
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[07:24:52] RickHull: can we get a mr_chromium quote in coordination with the release?
[07:25:11] RickHull: er, mr_chromatic?
[07:25:32] RickHull: or even: chromatic
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[07:27:09] RickHull: are rakudo or parrot even meaningful terms any longer?
[07:27:22] RickHull: where is chromatic? http://www.perl6.org/community/
[07:28:15] RickHull: http://www.perl6.org/archive/people.html
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[07:29:31] RickHull: btw, larry wall invented `patch`
[07:30:14] RickHull: thank god he didn't invent `diff` amirite?
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[07:30:28] [k-: Over the years, Perl 6 has undergone several alterations in its direction. The introduction of concepts from??Python??and??Ruby??were early influences,[citation needed]??but as the Pugs interpreter was written in the??Haskell programming language, many??functional programming??influences were absorbed by the Perl 6 design team.[citation needed]
[07:30:39] Ox0dea: [k-: He also wrote `rn`.
[07:30:48] Ox0dea: RickHull: ^
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[07:33:35] [k-: "Perl 6 is anything that passes the official test suite."[17]
[07:34:10] [k-: No implementation will be designated as the official Perl 6 implementation
[07:34:21] Ox0dea: What could possibly go wrong?
[07:35:27] RickHull: the pugs-haskell connection is the biggest thing (IMO) that gives legitimacy to the perl 6 project
[07:35:39] RickHull: is parrot useful for anyone outside perl?
[07:35:57] [k-: ??Pugs used to be the most advanced implementation of Perl 6, but since mid 2007 it is mostly dormant (with updates made only to track the current version ofGHC). As of November 2014 Pugs is not being actively maintained.[20]
[07:36:11] [k-: what is even parrot
[07:37:15] [k-: i answered your question
[07:37:35] RickHull: ok so pugs has lost legitimacy
[07:37:51] RickHull: does that cover your point?
[07:39:14] [k-: my $i = "25" + 10; # $i is 35
[07:39:29] [k-: RickHull i meant parrot
[07:39:31] RickHull: i'd suggest that is a bad thing
[07:39:49] [k-: it is as bad as JavaScript
[07:39:56] RickHull: [k-: honestly i can't keep up
[07:40:07] RickHull: i have zero dogs in the Rakudo Pugs Perl 6 fight
[07:40:20] RickHull: and whatever else nomenclatures are involved
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[07:40:46] [k-: they are just implementations
[07:41:05] RickHull: i feel like that is the convenient fallback
[07:41:32] RickHull: i.e. we can brush off any criticism because the C just targets an I
[07:41:47] RickHull: and we can change the I at any point
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[07:42:38] [k-: i wasn't criticising
[07:42:46] [k-: except the coercion part
[07:42:49] Ox0dea: I've said before that Perl 6 will be stillborn.
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[07:45:55] baweaver: Ox0dea: kinda like Python 3?
[07:46:07] Ox0dea: Python 3 is dead?
[07:46:32] baweaver: The joke is that Python 3 is at such an odd adoption rate
[07:46:40] RickHull: python3 is the future and anyone who isn't on board is a dirty python-twoer
[07:46:55] Ox0dea: "bfd" -- 99.9% of the software development community upon Perl 6's release
[07:47:18] baweaver: some prick decided it was a good idea to switch up most of string output in 3, can't blame people for being annoyed
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[07:47:39] RickHull: if you're not gonna fix it in 3, when are ya?
[07:47:52] [k-: haskell is the future
[07:48:07] [k-: haskell is love, Haskell is life
[07:48:11] RickHull: elixir < haskell ?
[07:48:20] RickHull: elixir > haskell !
[07:49:33] [k-: your face
[07:50:11] [k-: i always laugh when i say your face
[07:50:29] RickHull: i myself chuckled upon your utterance
[07:50:30] [k-: it's always funny to imagine someone else's face wrongly
[07:51:02] RickHull: your face wrongly is somewhere near as hilarious as my face wrongly
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[07:51:42] RickHull: not nearly as hilariously as interpreting mwf as my face wrongly
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[07:52:36] Ox0dea: ~ $ pacman -Q | grep -v 201. | sort -nk2 | tail -3
[07:52:38] Ox0dea: systemd 224-1
[07:52:40] Ox0dea: xterm 318-1
[07:52:42] Ox0dea: less 479-1
[07:52:44] Ox0dea: RickHull: Why not 479? :P
[07:53:14] RickHull: because not paste site. be a good exemplar
[07:53:20] Ox0dea: This guy.
[07:54:40] RickHull: what is `grep -v 201` ?
[07:54:49] Ox0dea: Some packages are versioned by year.
[07:55:00] RickHull: so 2000 and 1999 are ok?
[07:55:14] RickHull: heh, i believe it
[07:55:32] [k-: 2010-2019
[07:55:55] RickHull: 201(0-9} # works?
[07:56:09] Ox0dea: [k-: Also 201????
[07:56:10] RickHull: 201{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9} # works
[07:56:19] [k-: my statement was not based on anything
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[07:57:03] [k-: Ox0dea no one names years like that
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[07:58:22] [k-: wow perl 6 Also, the??,??(comma) operator is now a list constructor, so enclosing parentheses are no longer required around lists.??
[07:58:42] Ox0dea: RickHull: Forgive me, but it's unclear whether you understood the intent of my paste.
[07:58:44] RickHull: wow perl6 implication = ?
[07:58:55] RickHull: Ox0dea: probably not, spell it out plox
[07:59:05] Ox0dea: > if you're not gonna fix it in 3, when are ya?
[07:59:38] Ox0dea: Those are the three highest-versioned packages on my system.
[07:59:50] RickHull: i'm gonna fix it dammit
[08:00:25] Ox0dea: Um... I was quoting you?
[08:00:44] [k-: haskell cant even leave out parentheses
[08:00:48] RickHull: sounds good, what's the problem?
[08:00:50] [k-: also: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/82903e613028b2b3c277
[08:01:17] [k-: interesting how the compiler names the type variables
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[08:03:49] RickHull: because the ultra-smart computer names the variables smartly like ohnpqrs
[08:04:01] [k-: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ca8ce77ff2b5c555caca
[08:04:42] RickHull: not what i had in mind
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[08:07:45] [k-: ????\x??y??->??const??x??y
[08:07:45] [k-: :: a -> b -> a
[08:08:24] manveru: RickHull: it's dead jim
[08:09:45] [k-: ded ded ded
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[08:12:48] [k-: everything: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/0ce8af376d2b9a8d5205
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[08:15:35] [k-: perl 6: if 20 <= $temperature <= 25
[08:15:42] [k-: awesome.
[08:16:15] Ox0dea: [k-: Python's had that since its inception, I believe.
[08:16:38] [k-: awesome
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[08:24:51] [k-: >> [3, 22/7, 333/106, 355/113]
[08:24:53] ruboto: [k- # => [3, 3, 3, 3] (https://eval.in/413996)
[08:25:12] [k-: very good.
[08:25:28] [k-: >> [3, 22/7.0, 333/106.0, 355/113.0]
[08:25:29] ruboto: [k- # => [3, 3.142857142857143, 3.141509433962264, 3.1415929203539825] (https://eval.in/413997)
[08:26:32] [k-: >> 245850922/78256779.0
[08:26:33] ruboto: [k- # => 3.141592653589793 (https://eval.in/413998)
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[08:32:37] [k-: Ox0dea: pi in symbols!
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[08:37:20] Ox0dea: [k-: It's almost sane: https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/9eef255ce5bda81c67bb
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[08:40:45] [k-: such un threadsafe
[08:41:18] [k-: nice, nonetheless
[08:43:46] [k-: where does @@n in TrueClass come from?
[08:44:25] [k-: oh, it belongs to ChainedComparisons
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[08:47:37] [k-: there isn't an && though, how do you make sure both sides are correct?
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[08:47:45] Ox0dea: [k-: I suppose I could stick it in $1, whose thread-safety is managed by the language.
[08:48:10] [k-: isn't $1 read-only
[08:48:15] Ox0dea: Not really.
[08:48:25] [k-: but it will get overridden
[08:48:52] Ox0dea: Not in time for it to interfere with a chained comparison?
[08:49:23] Ox0dea: The more pressing error is that I forgot to update the variable in the Boolean methods.
[08:50:14] Ox0dea: >> '[k-' =~ /(.+)/; $1 # "read-only"
[08:50:15] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "[k-" (https://eval.in/413999)
[08:50:34] [k-: such cheat
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[09:05:31] [spoiler]: What thread safety? $1 isn't theadsafe at all (IIRC, too lazy to look now). I'd rather use something like `(?<vowel>[aeiou])/ =~ "hello"; vowel` if I had to resort to is (but there are better ways)
[09:05:54] [spoiler]: >> (?<vowel>[aeiou])/ =~ "hello"; vowel
[09:05:55] ruboto: [spoiler] # => /tmp/execpad-257e9a79329a/source-257e9a79329a:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting ')' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/414000)
[09:06:12] [spoiler]: >> /(?<vowel>[aeiou])/ =~ "hello"; vowel
[09:06:13] ruboto: [spoiler] # => "e" (https://eval.in/414001)
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[09:09:21] Ox0dea: [spoiler]: $~ and its friends are "pseudo-global variables"; they're thread-local.
[09:10:37] [spoiler]: Ox0dea: Oh, interesting. I wasn't aware. DO you know whetehr it is implementation-specific or is it in the "spec?"
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[09:11:28] Ox0dea: [spoiler]: It's also the case in Rubinius; make of that what you will, I suppose.
[09:13:25] [spoiler]: Ox0dea: yeah just went and cheched Rubinius implementation.
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[09:13:53] Ox0dea: ~ $ cat t.rb && ruby t.rb | sort -u | wc -l
[09:13:55] Ox0dea: 42.times.map { |i| Thread.new { i.to_s =~ /(\d+)/; puts $1 } }.each(&:join)
[09:13:59] Ox0dea: Just confirming.
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[09:20:06] [spoiler]: Oh well, it's good to know, but I'm not too happy about this "deviating" behaviour. But I suppose it does make sense, since $<N> is common for backreferences when using regexp
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[09:20:39] [spoiler]: Ox0dea: Although, in rbx at least (cba looking at MRI implementation now), $~ & friends aren't thread-local, they're scope-local (which is even better for what they're intended, to be fair)
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[09:21:50] Ox0dea: [spoiler]: I don't think it's particularly "devious", but it's slightly regrettable that they look like globals.
[09:21:59] Ox0dea: Still, better than introducing another sigil, in my opinion.
[09:22:30] [spoiler]: Ox0dea: that is what I mean by devious (maybe it's a harsh choice of words, lol).
[09:23:17] [spoiler]: Ox0dea: I think this shouldn't exist at all. =~ could return a MatchData object and then you could use that
[09:24:19] halcyone3: is taking photos a crime?
[09:24:23] [spoiler]: like this: `if md = (regexp =~ str); puts md[1]; end`
[09:24:45] [spoiler]: halcyone3: elaborate?
[09:25:07] Ox0dea: [spoiler]: Verbosity != readability.
[09:25:30] Ox0dea: It's not a sufficient condition, anyhow.
[09:27:57] Ox0dea: For posterity's sake, MRI's $~ is method-local.
[09:29:13] [spoiler]: So it's consistent at least :D
[09:29:18] Ox0dea: There are many other "scope gates" besides method definition.
[09:29:41] Ox0dea: I wonder which implementation chose the wrong term, or if they do in fact diverge on this matter.
[09:33:35] Ox0dea: "Scope-local" is the proper term for both implementations; doc/regexp.rdoc needs a paddlin'.
[09:35:22] Ox0dea: >> class Foo; 'foo' =~ /(\w+)/ end; $1
[09:35:23] ruboto: Ox0dea # => nil (https://eval.in/414005)
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[09:36:04] [spoiler]: oh is this actually documented?
[09:36:23] Ox0dea: > These global variables are thread-local and method-local variables.
[09:36:24] [spoiler]: oh yeah found it
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[09:37:46] Ox0dea: drbrain: In case I'm missing something, can you confirm that "scope-local" is more accurate than "method-local" there?
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[09:38:19] [spoiler]: it should definitely be scope-local
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[09:40:40] Ox0dea: They're essentially completely indistinguishable from local variables.
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[09:41:47] Ox0dea: Except, of course, for the terrifically confusing sigil.
[09:42:45] [spoiler]: and the fact that they're implicitly defined as nil
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[09:43:07] [spoiler]: (unless actually set)
[09:44:18] Ox0dea: Right. $ for $pecial, then.
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[09:46:03] [spoiler]: This is actually cool in a way, because when they're defined in a sub-scope they propagate to the outer scope (so using =~ inside a block body)
[09:46:53] [spoiler]: >> 1.times { /(\w+)/ =~ 'special' }; $1
[09:46:53] ruboto: [spoiler] # => "special" (https://eval.in/414006)
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[10:46:19] shevy: why are you trapped in an Array?
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[10:49:20] Hanmac: shevy we need to explode him :P *spoiler
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[11:06:51] [k-: or, we can pop him
[11:07:01] Averna: has joined #ruby
[11:07:05] [k-: so he wouldnt have multiple copies
[11:07:26] [k-: maybe the quick ref has something?
[11:07:30] [k-: ?quickref
[11:07:30] ruboto: http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/QuickRef.html
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[11:10:57] shevy: [k- I saw that you are now patching the official ruby
[11:12:56] [k-: yay it was accepted \o/
[11:13:00] [k-: i feel happy
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[11:17:55] phale: i miss ruby so much
[11:18:59] [k-: welcome home
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[11:25:39] phale: i'm having an issue requiring a gem that I have installed
[11:25:48] phale: it says/home/synt/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.2.0/lib/ruby/site_ruby/2.2.0/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:54:in `require': cannot load such file -- colorize (LoadError)
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[11:34:17] jhass: phale: gem list has it? what does gem which colorize say?
[11:34:41] phale: jhass: nevermind I fixed it, I was installing it as root instead of my current user
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[12:15:11] yorickpeterse: RickHull: what?
[12:15:33] [k-: yorickpeterse awakens
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[12:16:20] [k-: he wanted to ask about some web framework (i forgot) that you were working on with manveru
[12:16:34] [k-: manveru already answered
[12:17:17] yorickpeterse: Ah yeah, Ramaze is pretty much dead
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[12:24:20] bougyman: yorickpeterse: my ramaze apps still run great.
[12:24:24] bougyman: 'done' is not 'dead'
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[12:36:21] yorickpeterse: correct, done implies no further development is needed
[12:36:31] yorickpeterse: which isn't strictly the case, development simply ceased
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[13:06:36] TheToad: hey all, this is a ruby question inspired by rails, http://pastebin.com/3B4J1f52
[13:06:37] ruboto: TheToad, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/ed8dc71d9a9f3c175edd
[13:06:37] ruboto: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
[13:07:25] TheToad: shouldn't we access @messages hash ?
[13:07:48] TheToad: I mean we are treating errors as a hash, whereas it has a hash attribute. How does this fit together ?
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[13:15:38] jhass: TheToad: [] is a method call
[13:16:07] jhass: TheToad: https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/6c8cf21584ced73ade45529d11463c74b5a0c58f/activemodel/lib/active_model/errors.rb#L135
[13:16:08] TheToad: and how does it know to access @messages specifically
[13:16:13] TheToad: is it like operator overloading ?
[13:16:29] jhass: -> https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/6c8cf21584ced73ade45529d11463c74b5a0c58f/activemodel/lib/active_model/errors.rb#L109-L111
[13:16:41] jhass: -> https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/6c8cf21584ced73ade45529d11463c74b5a0c58f/activemodel/lib/active_model/errors.rb#L62
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[13:17:22] TheToad: working with an open source language does have its perks
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[13:49:59] shevy: long live ruby \o/
[13:50:33] [k-: propaganda here doesnt help?
[13:50:43] [k-: Spread haskell!
[13:50:52] [k-: Haskell for all the things! \o/
[13:51:03] [k-: now you've done it, shevy
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[13:51:40] shevy: haskell requires like a 300 mb download
[13:51:51] chris2: has joined #ruby
[13:52:34] [k-: just download it already!
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[14:02:55] shevy: that's about 50x as much ruby code than I have written in 10 years!
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[14:03:28] [k-: that means your ruby code cant do much then ooooo buuuuurn
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[14:03:59] mdw: hey guys, I'm trying to write a simple regex that looks for new additions to a diff, but I can't figure out how to stop it from matching the first line in the diff (the +++ a/ line)
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[14:04:10] mdw: http://rubular.com/r/LSpOZsyozd
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[14:05:11] jhass: mdw: simple negative lookahead? http://rubular.com/r/sejogb4fXB
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[14:05:16] jhass: ?guys mdw
[14:05:16] ruboto: mdw, You probably don't mean to exclude, but not everyone relates to being "one of the guys". Maybe consider using "folks", "y'all" or "everyone" instead?
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[14:06:20] mdw: jhass: thanks!
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[14:06:41] mdw: i've not come across negative look ahead!
[14:07:17] jhass: mdw: http://www.regular-expressions.info/lookaround.html
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[14:07:29] mdw: thanks, that's really useful
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[14:50:35] Ox0dea: How would you pronounce !==?
[14:51:19] [k-: not equal to
[14:51:28] Ox0dea: No, that's `!=`.
[14:51:51] Ox0dea: `===` is "threequals", so maybe `!==` could be "one-twoquals".
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[14:52:12] [k-: notequality
[14:54:06] jhass: I think I yet have to see !== used anywhere
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[14:54:40] Ox0dea: jhass: Scrict JavaScript inequality?
[14:55:07] Ox0dea: ACTION is too used to typing "script". :'(
[14:55:36] jhass: well, I mean in Ruby of course
[14:55:51] Ox0dea: It's not presently a valid Ruby operator.
[14:56:02] Ox0dea: That even *you* thought it was means I'm doing the right thing.
[14:56:58] [k-: does !a == b give the same result as !(a == b)
[14:57:25] ruboto: Why don't you try it and see for yourself?
[14:57:33] delta_: hi, what does 'i' means in %i. I know q stands for quote in %q, w stands in %w. %i creates symbol, but what does 'i' stand for?
[14:57:44] Ox0dea: delta_: Array of Symbols.
[14:58:11] [k-: i looks like : though
[14:58:30] jhass: >> "foo".intern
[14:58:31] ruboto: jhass # => :foo (https://eval.in/414030)
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[14:58:52] Ox0dea: delta_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_interning
[14:58:54] [k-: >> :"foo"
[14:58:55] ruboto: [k- # => :foo (https://eval.in/414031)
[14:59:03] rippa: ruby is so cool
[14:59:08] rippa: just wanted to say that
[14:59:15] [k-: bnagy, i mean in mathematical sense
[14:59:43] jhass: [k-: I don't think maths has ! generally defined, nor precedence rules for it
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[15:01:21] bnagy: [k-: draw the table?
[15:01:26] Ox0dea: I think the intent behind and answer to [k-'s question are both pretty obvious. Pedantry is lame, and two-value truth tables are child's play.
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[15:02:35] jhass: Ox0dea: why don't you answer then? Because I don't get it
[15:02:51] [k-: the results are the same :o
[15:02:52] Ox0dea: jhass: You don't understand truth tables and the NOT operation?
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[15:03:07] Ox0dea: Then whence your confusion?
[15:03:11] jhass: I've never seen ! in boolean algebra
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[15:03:37] [k-: i'll get a not sign then :(
[15:04:02] shevy: ! is so powerful
[15:04:07] shevy: it's like saying no
[15:04:08] bnagy: I don't know instantly if I can prove it though
[15:04:10] jhass: yeah ?? is not
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[15:04:26] shevy: is this unicode
[15:04:38] [k-: its your face!
[15:04:40] Ox0dea: jhass: What prevented you treating [k-'s ! as ???
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[15:05:04] [k-: jhass has strict mode on
[15:05:04] shevy: [k- I can see my face just fine but this unicode thing above looks like an "A" with a "-"
[15:05:05] jhass: not remembering if ?? has any precedence rules ;P
[15:05:22] Ox0dea: It's a unary operator.
[15:05:43] [k-: shevy: it is the not sign
[15:05:47] bnagy: well I guess the braces made the precedence clear, no?
[15:05:49] jhass: and I wouldn't be surprised if there's an actual programming language with perverted precedence rules for !
[15:05:56] jhass: where the answer would be yes
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[15:06:39] [k-: i was talking about the result
[15:06:44] [k-: not if they are the same
[15:07:19] Ox0dea: Erm... adding `!==` to parse.y was alarmingly easy.
[15:07:29] Ox0dea: I'm doing it.
[15:08:27] [k-: Wikipedia says: x???????y???????????!(x??=??y)
[15:08:28] Ox0dea: Still gotta get an intuition for what MRI calls "basic ops".
[15:08:40] [k-: so, it must be true!
[15:08:51] [k-: wait did i get that wrong
[15:08:58] [k-: ACTION goes back to square one
[15:09:05] bnagy: no that's fine I think
[15:09:22] bnagy: just that !a = b and a = !b are both a != b
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[15:10:14] [k-: ah yes, i dont have to !(a==b) anymore? (a != b exists, i know)
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[15:10:48] bnagy: there's some law of associativity or something probably
[15:11:03] bnagy: that I guess I knew 25 years ago
[15:11:24] bnagy: now I just draw truth tables :|
[15:11:46] Ox0dea: ??? n ??? ???: 10??? = n??????
[15:12:09] bnagy: what's subscript 10?
[15:12:56] Ox0dea: It's strange that zero and one are the only "undefined" radices.
[15:13:14] Ox0dea: Out of all the reals.
[15:13:56] Ox0dea: Seems inelegant not to define them such that that equation holds. :/
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[15:14:30] bnagy: hahah ilu google http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56029.html
[15:14:51] bnagy: "My friend Sean and I think we have disproved that 0 is a real number."
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[15:35:25] peterhil: Just filed a bug about set operations on a set of sets producing incorrect results: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/11422
[15:35:25] peterhil: Do you think the results should be correct, or just throw an error when trying to construct a set of sets??like Python does?
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[15:40:53] Mon_Ouie: peterhil: You need to subtract the singleton that contains c, not c itself, to get the result you're expecting.
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[15:57:05] peterhil: Mon_Ouie: That only works for a set of scalar values, not for set of arrays (or for a set of sets).
[15:58:46] peterhil: Mine may me a rare use case, but I really need a set of arrays or sets.
[15:59:57] Mon_Ouie: https://gist.github.com/Mon-Ouie/5efdab278cbabc3922acw
[16:00:29] Mon_Ouie: Everything works as expected (i.e.in the same way that it would if ab and c weren't sets but, say, integers)
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[16:00:56] peterhil: Of course I guess there is some other way to do what I want to do, but conceptually I have a set of collections, and I want to remove all subsets.
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[16:01:11] peterhil: That gist gives me a 404 error.
[16:01:28] Mon_Ouie: there: https://gist.github.com/Mon-Ouie/5efdab278cbabc3922ac
[16:03:41] Mon_Ouie: Compare with: https://gist.github.com/Mon-Ouie/a4e4a383ced809929f85
[16:04:20] peterhil: Ah, I see. The syntax makes it hard to follow that I have the same number of levels...
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[16:05:41] peterhil: Thanks, I'll update the bug report.
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[16:30:38] harushimo: just quick question to the ruby community: Can someone tell me the difference betwen rbenv and rvm?
[16:31:18] harushimo: Its more for my education
[16:31:23] saddad: rvm does more stuff
[16:31:52] pontiki: both are ruby and gem set management systems. they have vastly different approaches to the problem.
[16:32:09] harushimo: That is what I thought
[16:32:45] jhass: a third popular choice is chruby
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[16:33:04] harushimo: I was at workshop and someone telling that ruby devs prefer rbenv versuses rvm. I didn't that was true. I agree with point, pontiki
[16:33:07] rippa: never heard about it
[16:33:23] Ox0dea: harushimo: rvm "patches" shell builtins, which is something I'd expect a virus to do.
[16:33:26] pontiki: harushimo: everyone has opinions
[16:33:35] jhass: tbh I think rbenv is the least used one
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[16:33:58] havenwood: harushimo: RVM is over ten-thousand lines of shell while rbenv (and it's ruby installer, ruby-build) are several thousand lines.
[16:34:04] pontiki: i don't know how you'd tell
[16:34:05] havenwood: harushimo: +1 chruby and ruby-install
[16:34:26] harushimo: okay. thanks everyone
[16:34:51] harushimo: i always learn something new out of this channel
[16:35:03] pontiki: of the projects i've worked on with teams, they're about equal between rbenv and rvm
[16:35:04] havenwood: harushimo: RVM supports more systems for installing Ruby. I'm biased, but for a simple installer ruby-install has some real wins over ruby-build.
[16:35:42] pontiki: on one, the dev team used rvm and the devops team used rbenv
[16:35:59] havenwood: pontiki: I'm seeing a lot of chruby these days too! :D
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[16:36:18] pontiki: havenwood: i only see it here and on my projects -- it seems like no one at work uses it
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[16:36:59] havenwood: pontiki: Probably more common in newly created projects. I'm sure plenty of folk don't have enough reason to switch or are actually using RVM freatures.
[16:37:04] pontiki: when i'm running our local rails newbie meetup i try to remain completely neutral, all have good and bad points
[16:37:27] pontiki: havenwood: i am *sure* that's so, as that's the way it is for most tooling
[16:37:29] havenwood: pontiki: There is only One True Switcher. How dare you blaspheme?
[16:37:46] pontiki: havenwood: i am *made* of blasphemy
[16:37:51] havenwood: ACTION mutters something about vi and emacs
[16:38:04] pontiki: my daughter the iconoclast inherited it from somewhere, obviously
[16:38:24] harushimo: thanks for answering my questions. I hope I didn't offend anyone. like i said, its more for learning the differences.
[16:38:35] pontiki: i fully support learning
[16:38:47] havenwood: The first rule of Ruby switchers is to not use a Ruby switcher unless you need to switch Rubies.
[16:38:55] pontiki: i also fully support practice and practical comparison
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[16:39:18] havenwood: pontiki: ~100 lines of shell is about the right amount of shell. :)
[16:39:48] pontiki: havenwood: might even be too much...
[16:39:53] havenwood: pontiki: touche
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[16:44:26] pontiki: by the time i get a script up to about 50 lines i start to think "DAMMIT! i could have done this faster and more expressively in perl/ruby/python..."
[16:45:07] pontiki: then on the flip side, i've taken a 6 line bash script and turned it into 500 lines of ruby, too :D
[16:46:11] havenwood: pontiki: yeah, it can be surprisingly concise for some tasks
[16:47:20] eam: my rule is: no branching, no variables
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[17:02:25] gambl0re: is there a site where they have a live ruby console?
[17:02:50] Oka: gambl0re: http://repl.it/languages/Ruby ?
[17:02:57] Ox0dea: ?pry gambl0re
[17:02:57] ruboto: gambl0re, Pry, the better IRB. Includes easy object inspection via `ls`, `history`, docs view with `?`, source view with `$` and syntax highlighting, among other features (see `help` for more). It can also be used for easy debugging by putting `binding.pry` directly in your source code. Visit https://pryrepl.org/ or get it now with: gem install pry pry-doc
[17:03:19] gambl0re: irb is not good for multiline code
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[17:03:48] Ox0dea: gambl0re: Please elaborate.
[17:04:04] gambl0re: its not good for writing code more than one line
[17:04:08] gambl0re: its confusing
[17:04:29] Ox0dea: gambl0re: Are you aware that you can write your Ruby scripts in, y'know, a file?
[17:05:26] gambl0re: i dont know what you're talking about...
[17:05:34] gambl0re: doesnt matter though. the site oka provided is good enough
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[17:08:19] havenwood: gambl0re: You can go back and forth between Pry and a text editor.
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[17:26:49] shevy: gambl0re multiline irb works fine, I don't understand why you fail at that
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[17:40:36] miah: gambl0re: irb is for interpreting and executing your code
[17:40:44] miah: you can store your code in a text file, and load it into irb/pry
[17:40:52] miah: you can also just execute your code directly with ruby once its in a file
[17:41:24] miah: (or ruby -p but i'll ignore most of that for now)
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[17:58:22] gambl0re: can somebody help me. http://repl.it/BAqc/4
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[18:00:04] havenwood: >> "hello".split
[18:00:05] ruboto: havenwood # => ["hello"] (https://eval.in/414048)
[18:00:05] havenwood: gambl0re: ^
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[18:00:39] gambl0re: i put str="hello"
[18:00:48] gambl0re: so i should be able to do str.split()
[18:00:49] jhass: >> str = "hello"; str.split
[18:00:51] ruboto: jhass # => ["hello"] (https://eval.in/414049)
[18:01:04] gambl0re: thats what i did
[18:01:18] gambl0re: do i do str.split("")
[18:01:18] havenwood: gambl0re: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/String.html#method-i-chars
[18:01:38] gambl0re: for each letter to be seperated in the array?
[18:01:44] ruboto: Why don't you try it and see for yourself?
[18:01:54] jhass: &ri Array#include?
[18:01:54] `derpy: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/Array#include%3F-instance_method
[18:03:22] gambl0re: ok so the str.split("") works
[18:03:53] gambl0re: but now i want to compare each letter in the array to vowels array contain vowels in alphabet
[18:04:08] gambl0re: so i puts nested .each loops
[18:04:16] gambl0re: but its not working
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[18:07:44] dorei: given an array of Integers, can I find the first Integer that's not in there with an one liner?
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[18:08:40] ruboto: I don't know anything about fail
[18:08:56] shevy: dorei what are you asking? :)
[18:09:07] gambl0re: http://repl.it/BAqc/9
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[18:09:14] shevy: find the first Integer that ... is not in there? what does that mean?
[18:09:28] gambl0re: why the hell is outputting the array? i dont have any puts or print statements
[18:09:31] Ox0dea: >> foo = [0, 1, 2, 4]; (0..Float::INFINITY).find { |n| !foo.include? n } # dorei
[18:09:32] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 3 (https://eval.in/414050)
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[18:10:43] gambl0re: do you normally loop through an array using .each?
[18:11:00] Ox0dea: gambl0re: Yes, but you shouldn't be explicitly looping in this case.
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[18:11:24] Ox0dea: repl.it is outputting the array because it's an evaluator; it displays the value of the last expression.
[18:11:58] dorei: >> foo = [0,0]; (0..Float::INFINITY).find { |n| !foo.include? n }
[18:11:59] ruboto: dorei # => 1 (https://eval.in/414051)
[18:12:03] dorei: thanx Ox0dea :)
[18:12:06] Ox0dea: Happy to help.
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[18:20:10] shevy: hmm is there something like .index that works from the right side?
[18:20:32] havenwood: shevy: rindex
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[18:26:27] gambl0re: my keyboard is screwed up...opening bracket key is putting ^
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[18:27:40] adaedra: looks like another layout is used
[18:28:05] gambl0re: its only doing this in the browser
[18:28:13] gambl0re: how do i make it back to normal
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[18:28:54] adaedra: _Windows_ 7, I take
[18:28:57] adaedra: Try Alt-Shift
[18:29:01] miah: OS7, a old mac ;)
[18:29:28] adaedra: Otherwise, you should have on your task bar a little case with letters, try clicking on it
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[18:29:45] gambl0re: i dont see it
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[18:30:01] adaedra: Alt-Shift didn't work?
[18:30:10] gambl0re: im not using mac
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[18:30:34] gambl0re: alt shift does nothing
[18:30:54] adaedra: then go in keyboard settings in your control panel
[18:31:39] adaedra: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/258824
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[18:31:46] gambl0re: restarting browser fixed it
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[18:49:23] scorp007: It looks like Ruby modules never cleanup after themselves in ruby_cleanup. Is that the case?
[18:49:49] scorp007: which means ruby_setup/do stuff/ruby_cleanup repeated a second time will crash
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[19:24:43] gambl0re: what does =~ mean?
[19:25:01] gambl0re: elsif letter =~ /[a-zA-Z]/
[19:25:40] ElSif: evaluates to true if `letter` matches the regex
[19:26:05] al2o3-cr: &ri Kernel#=~
[19:26:05] `derpy: No results
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[19:26:20] havenwood: al2o3-cr: Regexp and String
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[19:26:38] al2o3-cr: ah, yeah :)
[19:26:48] al2o3-cr: just woke up
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[19:27:15] havenwood: gambl0re: In Pry you can check: ? =~
[19:27:33] gambl0re: i dont have pry
[19:27:40] havenwood: gambl0re: gem install pry pry-doc
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[19:28:22] havenwood: gambl0re: Okay, in irb type: help
[19:28:30] havenwood: gambl0re: Then: =~
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[19:28:35] gambl0re: elsif letter == /[a-zA-Z]/ is not the same?
[19:28:53] nofxx: gambl0re, is letter a regex?
[19:29:48] gambl0re: letter is the placeholder in the .each loop
[19:30:11] gambl0re: str.split(//).each do |letter| ....
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[19:30:34] nofxx: gambl0re, doesn't matter. What i'm trying to teach you is that == is equality or SAME
[19:31:11] havenwood: gambl0re: str.each_char do
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[19:32:24] gambl0re: =~ is checking if sometihng matching == is for checking if something is equal/same?
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[19:32:40] nofxx: gambl0re, exactly
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[20:04:33] gambl0re: .gsub(/[aiueo]/, &:upcase) is not working
[20:04:46] gambl0re: i want to upcase all vowels
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[20:14:14] shevy: >> 'abcdef'.gsub(/[aiueo]/, &:upcase)
[20:14:15] ruboto: shevy # => "AbcdEf" (https://eval.in/414061)
[20:14:34] shevy: looks upcased!
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[20:20:09] gambl0re: i tried that
[20:20:10] gambl0re: it didnt work
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[20:22:05] jhass: gambl0re: shevy just proved it works
[20:23:14] shevy: gambl0re perhaps you use something else in your code
[20:23:33] shevy: it may be easier to paste on a pastie site the code you use
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[20:34:04] shevy: adding initial functionality is usually a lot more work than changing existing functionality
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[20:37:58] hays: what is this? is the , an argument name? callBlock { |, | ... }
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[20:38:22] jhass: someone being too lazy to write |_, _|
[20:38:35] jhass: or just leaving the |..| off really
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[20:38:58] jhass: also note that we prefer underscore_case for method names
[20:40:44] hays: we who? im reading the book Programming Ruby. is it out of date?
[20:41:03] hays: hmm maybe not.. callBlock is a function not a method i think
[20:41:12] hays: good to know
[20:41:18] jhass: ruby has no functions
[20:41:43] hays: if i do def blah
[20:41:52] jhass: headlessCamelCase is used nowhere really
[20:41:55] hays: to what class todes that belong
[20:42:09] jhass: at the toplevel? it gets a private method on Object
[20:42:19] jhass: >> self.class
[20:42:20] ruboto: jhass # => Object (https://eval.in/414062)
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[20:42:58] hays: well who is "we" id like to read those rules if they exist
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[20:43:15] jhass: the vast majority of the ruby community
[20:43:42] jhass: https://github.com/bbatsov/ruby-style-guide is a popular styleguide
[20:44:22] jhass: https://github.com/thoughtbot/guides/tree/master/style/ruby and https://github.com/styleguide/ruby are the next most popular ones I think
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[20:45:08] jasonbeale: hi - if I'm accessing a value using the following code: self.new_instance_class.some_method ............how do I test the response of the "some_method" in rspec?
[20:45:11] hays: no PEP 8 equivalent eh
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[20:46:28] jasonbeale: I get the code to work, I just don't know how to do the test
[20:47:09] jhass: what's new_instance_class ?
[20:48:15] jasonbeale: a nested class
[20:48:47] jhass: can't be, self.new_instance_class makes it a method call
[20:48:59] jasonbeale: nested instantiated class*
[20:49:10] jhass: I think you need to show some code
[20:49:23] jhass: ideally without fake names
[20:50:24] jasonbeale: ok, one moment
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[20:58:24] jasonbeale: http://pastebin.com/gve0VN90
[20:58:25] ruboto: jasonbeale, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/2bd9ff04a14744b2ea33
[20:58:25] ruboto: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
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[20:59:19] jhass: so much for no fake code
[20:59:40] jasonbeale: I'm keeping it simple
[20:59:43] jhass: that won't work, dog_1 is not defined as method and a local variable in initialize
[20:59:47] ruboto: Please show your real code to illustrate your problem. Using fake code often hides it or won't bring up the best possible solution.
[21:01:14] jasonbeale: oops, should have pasted the following in line 3 : attr_reader :dog_1, :dog_2
[21:01:15] jhass: btw dogClass -> dog_class, we prefer underscore_case for methods and local variables
[21:01:45] jhass: anyway, so you already DPI, just pass in a double
[21:02:20] jasonbeale: dogClass is the class name.
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[21:02:47] jhass: according to your fake(!) example it's just the class object
[21:03:18] jasonbeale: the code works but really its the rspec i'm not sure about
[21:03:32] jhass: dog = double; animal = Animal.new(double(new: dog); expect(dog).to receive(:eat); animal.pick
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[21:04:30] jasonbeale: brilliant jhass - let me check
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[21:53:02] kallisti5: if any of the devs get a free moment, could someone review this pull request? Pretty simple. https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/984
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[21:55:43] ght: Quesstion: As far as execution speed, is a long case statement with many options slow? I'm trying to speed up my app and wondering if a long switch statement is slow, as in, Ruby evaluates each potential option.
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[21:57:31] ght: Another question: Is there a way to combine a split statement so you do'nt have to have an intermediatry array, when you know you want the first element of the array returned?
[21:57:59] ght: Example: mystring = "bob jim"; arr = mystring.split(" "); newstring = arr[0];
[21:58:32] ght: Is there any way to skip the "arr = mystring.split(" ")" when you know you're always going to want element 0 in the array returned by .split()?
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[22:01:01] Ox0dea: >> 'foo'[0] # ght?
[22:01:02] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "f" (https://eval.in/414067)
[22:01:14] Ox0dea: Oh, never mind.
[22:01:38] Ox0dea: >> 'foo bar baz'[/\w+/]
[22:01:39] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "foo" (https://eval.in/414068)
[22:01:50] Ox0dea: Although you might want to use \S instead of \w.
[22:02:11] ght: Interesting, so I could use regex instead of .split() to grab all chars up to the space in the string?
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[22:03:25] Ox0dea: That's exactly right.
[22:03:47] ght: Perfect, thank you Ox0dea.
[22:04:01] shevy: "In order for tools on your system to find your locally installed copy of DocBook, you must map these public identifiers into system identifiers"
[22:04:05] Ox0dea: ght: Happy to help.
[22:04:19] shevy: what a fancy description for saying that they have to point towards local files/filenames
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[22:21:55] ght: Question: Say you have an if conditional: if a == 1 || a == 2 || a == 3
[22:22:08] ght: Is there any way to simply say "if a == 1, 2, or 3"?
[22:22:15] ght: What would the syntax be for that?
[22:22:19] Coraline: [1,2,3].include?(a)
[22:22:28] ght: Thank you sir.
[22:22:36] Coraline: Not a sir, but you're welcome
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[22:25:01] ght: Thank you mamn!
[22:30:56] Ox0dea: ght: For reference, it's "ma'am", that being a contraction of "madam".
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[22:33:20] Ox0dea: ght: More topically, there are better approaches than Array#include? if you're trying to cover a range; are you?
[22:33:39] shevy: which language is better - ruby or python
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[22:34:32] lannonbr: Define better
[22:34:40] Ox0dea: Which war is worse - language or editor?
[22:35:18] lannonbr: people complaining and not just using what they feel like
[22:35:19] jhass: ?best shevy
[22:35:20] ruboto: shevy, "Best" and "better" are subjective. Try to use a different term.
[22:35:40] shevy: which language is more useful - ruby or python
[22:35:49] jhass: useful for what?
[22:35:53] lannonbr: depends on the individual, shevy
[22:35:54] shevy: to program
[22:36:01] jhass: program what?
[22:36:02] Ox0dea: shevy: Python. Now /part. :P
[22:36:07] shevy: jhass programs
[22:36:13] jhass: what kind of programs?
[22:36:15] shevy: Ox0dea why Python?
[22:36:27] shevy: jhass only the sky is the limit
[22:37:04] Ox0dea: shevy: Well, what is it that has hitherto prevented you from learning Python?
[22:37:05] jhass: shevy: so nothing interstellar? Ruby should be fine then
[22:37:06] shevy: lannonbr yeah but I am trying to find a definition that would be agnostic of an individual's opinion since that will be biased
[22:37:16] shevy: Ox0dea time is one big reason
[22:37:25] Ox0dea: But what made you pick Ruby?
[22:37:36] shevy: jhass probably not with the current speed of ruby and python :)
[22:37:43] shevy: Ox0dea matz
[22:37:51] Ox0dea: So you hate Guido?
[22:37:55] shevy: Ox0dea what made you pick ruby?
[22:38:07] shevy: Ox0dea why should I hate Guido?
[22:38:08] Ox0dea: Blocks, I guess.
[22:38:24] shevy: blocks are quite nice
[22:38:27] Ox0dea: So many little things since the beginning, but blocks were what initially caught my eye.
[22:38:50] jhass: shevy: what's better, a bandsaw or a bench saw?
[22:38:59] shevy: jhass bench saw hands down
[22:39:05] jhass: that's the kind of question you ask
[22:39:09] shevy: not at all
[22:39:16] jhass: yes it is
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[22:39:20] shevy: you compare a static tool with a flexible programming language
[22:39:36] jhass: you try to define a tool generically superior to another
[22:39:41] jhass: but they're just different tools
[22:39:54] shevy: of course because there are measurements possible that won't be influenced by personal bias
[22:40:02] Ox0dea: shevy: So measure?
[22:40:08] jhass: for specific usecases yes
[22:40:12] shevy: Ox0dea measure how?
[22:40:22] Ox0dea: > there are measurements
[22:40:29] havenwood: you challenge my car to a horserace?
[22:40:30] shevy: I did not say that I can do so?
[22:40:42] Ox0dea: havenwood: Is your other car Epona?
[22:41:00] jhass: but you won't believe that your question is pretty much BS either
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[22:41:27] shevy: my question is great
[22:41:50] jhass: it's on a premise you refuse to prove
[22:42:03] jhass: and I say that premise is wrong
[22:42:08] shevy: it's your assumption that my question is not great, however had you are not required to answer it
[22:42:43] jhass: so you're not going to prove your premise?
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[22:42:56] shevy: so you are not answering my question?
[22:43:16] jhass: I did answer your question, by saying it's irrelevant because your premise is wrong
[22:43:28] shevy: you dodged it completely
[22:43:33] havenwood: shevy: Why do we need both Italian and Portuguese? Which is better? Shall we deprecate one?
[22:43:41] shevy: havenwood yes! go english!
[22:43:58] jhass: I think you dodge any argument to it rather
[22:44:05] shevy: I think you don't want to answer it
[22:44:21] havenwood: shevy: Is Italian or Portuguese better for poetry? Opera?
[22:44:23] jhass: you already said that, see my previous answer to that
[22:44:28] shevy: havenwood italian
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[22:44:40] havenwood: shevy: Okay, so Ruby is better. Question answered!
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[22:45:36] havenwood: shevy: (If you aesthetically prefer it and its tools line up with your needs.)
[22:45:45] shevy: yeah that is one possible reason
[22:46:22] jhass: which can be said about any language, hence mmy point in refusing your premise that one could be generically "better"
[22:47:33] havenwood: shevy: There are cultural attitude differences between the communities. Pythonistas prefer to not write any code until it's perfect while Rubyists go ahead and write every possible solution knowing that one must then be perfect.
[22:48:26] Ox0dea: >> 3.4.3 > 2.3
[22:48:27] ruboto: Ox0dea # => /tmp/execpad-e2e34b7f3811/source-e2e34b7f3811:2: unexpected fraction part after numeric literal ...check link for more (https://eval.in/414069)
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[22:48:32] Ox0dea: I'm retarded.
[22:48:59] Ox0dea: shevy: Anyhow, that should be sufficient to answer your question.
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[22:49:21] shevy: Ox0dea you already mentioned one aspect: blocks
[22:49:29] Ox0dea: shevy: Yeah, but look at that version number.
[22:50:01] shevy: 3.4.3 is not a thing
[22:51:42] shevy: not even in python :)
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[22:53:01] shevy: Interesting to compare the error messages... ruby says "unexpected fraction part after numeric literal", and uses an arrow to point at the last dot; python says "SyntaxError: invalid syntax" and points at the last number with an arrow
[22:53:38] Ox0dea: shevy: Erm, it's the current stable Python release?
[22:53:59] Ox0dea: if : unless :: while : until :: when : ?
[22:54:37] shevy: dunno, I tried on python-3.5.0a4 and python-2.7.10, and ruby-2.2.2p95. I am so glad to no longer have to use older rubies
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[22:54:53] Ox0dea: shevy: Yes, I conceded that I made a syntactic mistake, but the point remains.
[22:55:09] havenwood: shevy: 2.2.2+, hooah!
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[22:55:39] Ox0dea: shevy: You use an alpha release of Python but not Ruby?
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[22:55:48] shevy: it's official!
[22:55:56] Ox0dea: Hey, gals! What would you say is the "opposite" of "when"?
[22:56:18] Ox0dea: I've added !== to Ruby. ^_^
[22:56:29] Ox0dea: Gonna need an opposite of "when" for "reverse" case statements.
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[22:56:36] shevy: how about "unwhen"
[22:56:43] shevy: or "notwhen"?
[22:56:47] Ox0dea: Could be better.
[22:56:49] shevy: or ... "before"
[22:57:08] shevy: giving names to things is hard
[22:57:27] shevy: Ox0dea what happens to !!==
[22:57:34] havenwood: Ox0dea: when or then?
[22:57:46] Ox0dea: shevy: That's still a syntax error.
[22:57:50] havenwood: Ox0dea: oh, i see
[22:58:34] shevy: you could use "nehw" for the reverse when. That would keep in line with the bash tradition case/esac ... if/fi ...
[22:58:56] Ox0dea: Stupid `od` breakin' the symmetries.
[22:59:06] Ox0dea: It's a shit compared to `xxd` anyway.
[23:02:53] jhass: case; unless is invalid, so just make it valid?
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[23:07:18] Ox0dea: That'll be tricky, but it does seem the best approach.
[23:07:50] Ox0dea: I'll run the !== proposal first, I think.
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[23:12:25] Ox0dea: `===` gets bytecode-compiled to an optimized instruction. :/ Anybody know how to insns.def?
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[23:14:20] Ox0dea: Hm... apparently not.
[23:14:22] Ox0dea: >> RubyVM::InstructionSequence.of(-> { Fixnum === 1 }).to_a[13][9]
[23:14:23] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [:opt_send_without_block, {:mid=>:===, :flag=>256, :blockptr=>nil, :orig_argc=>1}] (https://eval.in/414071)
[23:14:41] Ox0dea: That despite the fact that `opt_case_dispatch` is one of the VM's instructions.
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