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#ruby - 01 October 2015

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[00:08:44] zenspider: to_c? oh... complex
[00:09:13] zenspider: I wrote Proc#to_c... that' different :P
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[00:41:39] average: I am so bored
[00:41:43] average: do you know how bored I am ?
[00:41:48] average: jesus christ
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[00:45:50] eam: me too, let's write some ruby
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[00:54:36] jeffreylevesque: is there a package that will lint csv files?
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[01:00:07] odigity: What's the difference between this doc [http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.3/Time.html] and this doc [http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.2.3/libdoc/time/rdoc/Time.html]?
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[01:09:56] drbrain: odigity: poor parsing by ruby-doc.org, probably
[01:10:14] drbrain: odigity: part of Time is built into ruby, while the other part must be required
[01:10:23] drbrain: the second link is what you get from require 'time'
[01:10:25] Ox0dea: >> [Time.methods.size, require('time'), Time.methods.size] # odigity
[01:10:26] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [106, true, 114] (https://eval.in/442579)
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[01:21:13] jhn: what's the rails channel?
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[01:22:05] Ox0dea: ?rails jhn
[01:22:05] ruboto: jhn, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
[01:22:28] Ox0dea: You're welcome.
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[01:51:15] Ox0dea: >> test(42) rescue $!
[01:51:17] ruboto: Ox0dea # => #<ArgumentError: unknown command '*'> (https://eval.in/442580)
[01:51:44] Ox0dea: I know 42.chr == '*', but why does #test do that?
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[01:53:05] Coraline: OK, the #test method is impossible to google for
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[01:54:05] Ox0dea: &ri Kernel#test
[01:54:05] `derpy: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/Kernel#test-instance_method
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[01:55:44] Ox0dea: I suspect it to be a holdover from before 1.9, when `?* == 42`.
[01:55:48] Ox0dea: 18>> ?* == 42
[01:55:49] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/442583)
[01:57:44] Ox0dea: Confirmed. https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/file.c#L4742
[01:58:11] Ox0dea: The NUM2CHR() macro is poorly named; it coerces strings as well.
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[02:31:02] Ox0dea: How old do you want to be on the greatest day of your life?
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[02:31:59] Coraline: 20000 days old
[02:33:02] Ox0dea: >> 20000.divmod 365.25
[02:33:03] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [54, 276.5] (https://eval.in/442618)
[02:33:15] Ox0dea: Right around lunchtime, then.
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[02:35:00] Ox0dea: That didn't make a great deal of sense, in hindsight.
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[02:37:06] Coraline: I thought you were calling me old.
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[02:37:53] Ox0dea: I tried to do a funny about the fractional result.
[02:38:22] pipework: That would be rude and unlike Ox0dea!
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[02:43:54] Ox0dea: 20000 is a Saturday for me. Fingers crossed.
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[03:18:35] odigity: drbrain, ah ha -- hence the difference between 'core' and 'stdlib'. That makes sense. Thanks!
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[03:30:44] agent_white: Evenin' folks
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[03:32:33] Ryzokuken: >> Marshal.dump "hello world"
[03:32:35] ruboto: Ryzokuken # => "\x04\bI\"\x10hello world\x06:\x06ET" (https://eval.in/442621)
[03:35:06] drbrain: I can still read Marshal output ????
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[03:39:12] pipework: drbrain: You're a funny guy.
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[03:44:48] Ox0dea: >> ObjectSpace.each_object.max_by { |o| Marshal.dump(o).size rescue 0 }.size
[03:44:50] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 226 (https://eval.in/442623)
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[03:50:01] pipework: Ox0dea: Run that in a rails app context!
[03:50:42] Ox0dea: pipework: I meant for it to show the size of the dump rather than the object itself. :/
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[03:51:32] pipework: I don't know enough about Marshal to know what you're saying. :d
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[03:54:02] Ox0dea: pipework: It's for persisting (some) objects to disk for later retrieval.
[03:55:06] pipework: Ox0dea: Oh, I know what it's used for.
[03:55:15] pipework: I just don't know enough about how it works.
[03:55:30] pipework: With regard for size of the dump vs the object itself.
[03:55:59] Ox0dea: Well, Hash#size is the number of key-value pairs, not internal memory, but I take your point.
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[04:00:09] Ox0dea: I think the object with the largest dump length in a typical Rails app would still be this Hash of Gem::StubSpecifications.
[04:00:38] Ox0dea: Lots of instance variables on that class.
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[04:01:02] srruby: Anyone using aws instances for development ? Any advice ?
[04:01:44] ght: Question: I want to check if a number is within a range, such as 1..3
[04:01:55] ght: I know with case, it's when 1..3
[04:02:04] ght: can you simply do if x == 1..3
[04:02:11] ght: Or what would the syntax be for that?
[04:02:25] ght: instead of having to write "if x == 1 || x == 2 || x == 3"
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[04:03:02] Coraline: (1..3).include?(2)
[04:03:05] Coraline: >> (1..3).include?(2)
[04:03:06] ruboto: Coraline # => true (https://eval.in/442624)
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[04:03:31] ght: so if (1..3).include?(x)
[04:03:43] ght: Thank you, very helpful.
[04:03:56] pipework: #cover? might be preferable.
[04:04:02] Coraline: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/Range.html#method-i-include-3F has a lot of good stuff in it.
[04:04:04] pipework: #include?, iirc, expands the range.
[04:04:18] ght: What would the syntax for cover be in this scenario?
[04:04:25] pipework: Whereas #cover? checks if it's within the bounds of the range.
[04:04:37] pipework: ght: The docs will reveal all.
[04:04:44] ght: lol, ok. Thank you.
[04:04:45] Ox0dea: >> (1..3).include? 2.5 # pipework
[04:04:46] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/442625)
[04:04:57] pipework: >> (1..1_000_000_000).cover?(4)
[04:04:58] ruboto: pipework # => true (https://eval.in/442626)
[04:05:33] pipework: Being lazy can be good for you.
[04:05:33] Coraline: Good point pipework
[04:05:48] Ox0dea: pipework: I've just demonstrated that #include? doesn't "expand the range".
[04:06:18] pipework: Ox0dea: "Returns true if the given object is present in self (that is, if any element == object), otherwise returns false."
[04:06:26] pipework: That's for #include?
[04:06:31] Ox0dea: >> (1..3).include? 2.5 # And yet.
[04:06:32] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/442627)
[04:06:56] pipework: Returns true if obj is between the begin and end of the range.\n This tests begin <= obj <= end when exclude_end? is false and begin <= obj < end when exclude_end? is true.
[04:07:22] pipework: Ox0dea: I'd have to look into the actual implementation to see whether #include? would be safe for extremely large ranges.
[04:08:41] pipework: I think for integers, it's optimized.
[04:09:16] pipework: But in general, I prefer cover? for ranges that might not have optimized codepaths for certain objects.
[04:10:28] pipework: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21608935/what-is-the-difference-between-rangeinclude-and-rangecover specifically.
[04:10:51] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: What's so special about Window 4?
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[04:11:26] pipework: Maybe it's an optimization of thumb and index finger switching if they had keyboard shortcuts.
[04:11:27] Ox0dea: pipework: You posted Array's #include? documentation, not Range's, mind.
[04:12:00] pipework: Ah you're right, Dash forgot that I was scoped to Range the first time I looked.
[04:12:03] pipework: Returns true if obj is an element of the range, false otherwise. If begin and end are numeric, comparison is done according to the magnitude of the values.
[04:12:31] BraddPitt: can't tell you that, Ox0dea ;)
[04:12:43] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: Gross.
[04:13:14] Ox0dea: pipework: In any case, case equality is defined in terms of #include? for Ranges.
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[04:14:45] Ox0dea: ght: You asked if you could do `x == 1..3`; you can get pretty close:
[04:14:47] Ox0dea: >> x = 2; (1..3) === x
[04:14:48] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/442628)
[04:14:53] Ox0dea: Forget you ever saw this, though. :P
[04:16:18] pipework: Ox0dea: ohlawdy
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[04:16:49] pipework: Nice for case statements I guess.
[04:17:31] Ox0dea: And #grep.
[04:17:38] Ox0dea: And #any? and friends some day.
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[04:17:59] Ox0dea: http://logs.ryanbigg.com/ruby?date=2015-08-20#3912454
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[04:19:11] pipework: Ox0dea: Some cases are more equal than others?
[04:19:23] Ox0dea: Case equality is equality on steroids.
[04:19:37] pipework: Ox0dea: Was just an Animal Farm joke.
[04:19:58] Ox0dea: It "does the right thing" for primitive objects and so much in the "interesting" cases.
[04:20:24] Ox0dea: >> even = -> x { x & 1 == 0 }; even === 42
[04:20:25] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/442629)
[04:20:58] Ox0dea: >> odd = -> x { x & 1 == 1 }; (1..10).grep(odd)
[04:20:59] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [1, 3, 5, 7, 9] (https://eval.in/442630)
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[04:32:35] Guest50518: is there nothing like module_function for a class?
[04:33:15] Ox0dea: Guest50518: Classes are modules.
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[04:33:49] Guest50518: yes but apparently module_function not available in classes
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[04:35:09] Ox0dea: Guest50518: Could you clarify why you think you need "class_function"?
[04:36:08] Guest50518: well I'm just playing around but stead of `def self.meth` for all the methods or having to use `class << self; ...` to wrap the whole thing I was curious if there is something like module_function
[04:37:19] Ox0dea: Fair enough. There isn't such a thing, to my knowledge.
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[04:38:10] Ox0dea: Guest50518: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/eval.c#L1639
[04:38:12] Ox0dea: How rude.
[04:38:50] Guest50518: can't we just copy it back in?
[04:39:33] Ox0dea: Class.send :define_method, :module_function, Module.instance_method(:module_function)
[04:39:40] Ox0dea: `module_function': module_function must be called for modules (TypeError)
[04:40:02] Ox0dea: They knew we'd try that.
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[04:41:41] Guest50518: heh trying to find the implementation fo it
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[04:42:06] Guest50518: rb_mod_modfunc
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[04:43:08] Ox0dea: It's not as simple as you might've expected.
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[04:43:46] Ox0dea: Well, in the nonary case, it just invokes rb_scope_module_func_set(), so that's the function you'll want to look into.
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[04:44:34] Ox0dea: Still, it's setting members of an internal struct, so you won't be able to perfectly emulate it from Ruby.
[04:44:45] Guest50518: maybe there is a callback to listen for a method being defined and you could simply then copy it into the class
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[04:45:32] Guest50518: i guess you could delete the instance method at that point too if that makes you feel better?
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[04:46:16] Ox0dea: There is Class#method_added if you really want to go to such extremes.
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[04:47:57] [k-: Ox0dea! I missed you!
[04:48:12] Ox0dea: [k-! I missed you too.
[04:48:22] [k-: where did you go?
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[04:48:28] Ox0dea: Saudi Arabia.
[04:48:46] [k-: that's pretty far from where you live
[04:49:51] Ox0dea: In more ways than one.
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[04:50:14] [k-: i see what you did there
[04:50:35] Guest50518: Ox0dea: stack level too deep which makes sense :]
[04:51:01] Ox0dea: Guest50518: Nah, you explicitly opened the singleton class, I think?
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[04:51:48] Ox0dea: `def self.foo` doesn't open a new "scope gate", so to speak, whereas `class << self` does.
[04:57:12] Ox0dea: Guest50518: I can't think how to do it without defining the class methods in terms of the instance methods, which means they can't be removed. :/
[04:57:39] Guest50518: yea I'm having issues trying to use method_added, define_method, instance_method
[04:58:37] Ox0dea: Here's where I'm at: https://eval.in/442634
[05:00:03] Ox0dea: I think the best that can be done is to make the instance methods private. :<
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[05:01:40] Ox0dea: Guest50518: https://eval.in/442635
[05:01:56] Ox0dea: I'd never used a visibility modifier on the return value of #define_singleton_method before now.
[05:03:11] Guest50518: I'm still looking at the old version trying to understand
[05:03:59] Guest50518: all you changed was setting it private?
[05:04:22] Guest50518: idk this is wicked confusing
[05:04:49] Ox0dea: Like, all of it, or?
[05:04:55] Ox0dea: Just how the various scopes are interacting?
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[05:05:58] [k-: private isn't even a keyword?
[05:06:05] [k-: >> private
[05:06:06] ruboto: [k- # => Object (https://eval.in/442636)
[05:06:14] Ox0dea: >> private == self
[05:06:14] ruboto: Ox0dea # => false (https://eval.in/442637)
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[05:06:33] Ox0dea: Oh, right; the visibility modifiers return the module under modification.
[05:06:34] [k-: Object is not == to an instance of Object
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[05:07:08] Ox0dea: >> class Foo; $p = private; end; $p
[05:07:09] ruboto: Ox0dea # => Foo (https://eval.in/442638)
[05:07:30] Ox0dea: >> defined? private
[05:07:31] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "method" (https://eval.in/442639)
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[05:07:55] Guest50518: Ox0dea: so i changed your define_singleton_method to just define_method and it works too? part of me was thinking that it would be equivalent anyway?
[05:08:07] Ox0dea: Guest50518: Which? There are two.
[05:08:37] Guest50518: just the outer one
[05:09:01] Guest50518: oh wait now it says undefined not private
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[05:11:59] Guest50518: i was trying various versions of https://eval.in/442640
[05:12:45] Ox0dea: > Object is not == to an instance of Object
[05:12:48] Ox0dea: Guest50518: ^
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[05:12:52] Ox0dea: That's the crux of that error.
[05:13:41] Ox0dea: It's a bit like trying to finagle Ruby into invoking the #keys method on a String.
[05:13:51] Guest50518: but all I'm saying is give me an unbound method and set it to the class
[05:13:57] Guest50518: just like you did earlier
[05:14:40] Ox0dea: >> Hash.instance_method(:keys).bind(Hash) rescue $! # Guest50518
[05:14:41] ruboto: Ox0dea # => #<TypeError: bind argument must be an instance of Hash> (https://eval.in/442641)
[05:14:54] Ox0dea: Instances of Hash can sensibly respond to #keys, but Hash itself cannot.
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[05:15:25] Ox0dea: Ruby doesn't even let you bind such nonsensicalities, let alone invoke them.
[05:15:52] [k-: that's because of the instance variable required, the methods required, and the jungle and bananas needed
[05:15:58] Guest50518: so it's failing trying to analyze the content of the method given the bind target?
[05:16:08] Guest50518: like i didn't expect it to be that smart?
[05:16:42] Ox0dea: Guest50518: #define_singleton_method with an UnboundMethod attempts to bind the latter.
[05:16:54] Guest50518: hm but our simple example method isn't calling any instance vars or anything else...
[05:17:05] Ox0dea: [k- was being adorably unhelpful.
[05:17:30] Guest50518: confused by what you mean by, "attempts to bind the latter"
[05:18:26] Ox0dea: Guest50518: What do you think `Hash.keys` would return if it existed?
[05:19:01] Guest50518: Can't change the value of self self = class << self; self; end
[05:19:06] Guest50518: heh it was worth a short
[05:19:37] Ox0dea: But `class << self` does change the value of `self` (to the caller's singleton class).
[05:20:14] Guest50518: well i don't think Hash.keys matters because it's a dynamic / interpreted (even byte code wise) language so I imagine that methods are invoked with `self` pointing to a given object and if it fails at runtime it fails...
[05:20:31] Guest50518: yea i was trying to grab the singleton and redefine the current self
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[05:20:59] Ox0dea: I give you heaps of credit for being an explorer, but you might've been better off staying on the trail a bit longer. :x
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[05:21:45] Guest50518: lol? well I have been using ruby go on 10 years now... this is just something that annoyed me at various points in past
[05:23:21] Ox0dea: I wouldn't've said that had you not demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of `self` in Ruby.
[05:23:28] Ox0dea: I apologize for any offense taken, in any case.
[05:24:00] Guest50518: like in js for instance i can easily just o.send(meth,args) right... `this` gets bound while it executes and there isn't much else to it I thought
[05:24:29] Guest50518: well i mean you can use a language for a long time and now try to pry it apart like this :]
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[05:26:49] Ox0dea: Guest50518: You used #send with an explicit receiver there, in which case `self` is largely irrelevant.
[05:27:17] Ox0dea: JavaScript's `this` is much less sane than Ruby's `self`.
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[05:27:53] Ox0dea: Method dispatch in Ruby is almost completely regular, which is no small feat given the depth of its object system.
[05:27:53] baweaver: I always want to say this is garbage, but I can never remember what this is
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[05:29:11] Guest50518: I guess it's apply() been a while... (function(){ return this.x; }).apply({ x: 5 }) // 5
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[05:30:42] Ox0dea: Right, we have to more explicitly bind in Ruby, but that's arguably for the better.
[05:31:00] Guest50518: Ox0dea: your just saying that ruby actually analyze the function body to try and link the method calls and other details?
[05:31:39] Ox0dea: Guest50518: Yes, some bookkeeping takes place immediately at the invocation of, say, #define_singleton_method.
[05:32:10] Guest50518: yea but in the example I had my method literally just returned 5... it's not doing anything that couldn't work
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[05:32:55] [k-: unless the property x didn't exist
[05:33:19] Ox0dea: Ruby doesn't need to look into the method body to determine that you're doing something wonky.
[05:34:20] Ox0dea: It would be very strange if it did.
[05:35:01] Ox0dea: Outside of some weird Platonic ideal, a class is not its instances.
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[05:35:26] Ox0dea: I realize that's sort of what we're trying to finagle Ruby into believing for wanting #class_function, but the point remains.
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[05:36:18] [k-: you can't pluck a gorilla out of a jungle without bringing the jungle and bananas too
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[05:37:58] Guest50518: yea happens if I try to use that technique to copy a method from one class to another
[05:38:30] Ox0dea: Guest50518: And for the very same reason.
[05:38:31] Guest50518: I guess you could use one of those decompile/recompile tricks
[05:38:41] Guest50518: yea i was just testing
[05:38:45] Guest50518: to prove that would happen
[05:39:25] Ox0dea: Guest50518: RubyVM::InstructionSequence#load is disabled at present. :(
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[05:39:35] Ox0dea: They'd just have to uncomment the line.
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[05:39:58] Ox0dea: "No verifier".
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[05:40:09] Ox0dea: This language used to let us play with scissors.
[05:40:11] Guest50518: i thought there was those sexpression dump/loaders
[05:40:51] Ox0dea: Aye, there's RubyVM::InstructionSequence#to_a for dumping.
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[05:41:36] Ox0dea: But here's what we've got for loading: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/iseq.c#L2346-L2347
[05:42:24] Ox0dea: Oh, you could've gotten cheeky back there when I asked about `Hash.keys`: https://eval.in/442646
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[05:42:58] Guest50518: could always create 0xRuby :]
[05:43:22] Guest50518: what about this one https://eval.in/442651
[05:43:42] Ox0dea: What about it?
[05:44:35] Guest50518: just find it odd that the foo method isn't available off of B at that point
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[05:54:33] Guest50518: I always thought this looked pretty cool http://www.zenspider.com/ZSS/Products/RubyInline/
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[05:58:43] Guest50518: well thanks for playing around it was fun
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[06:10:20] certainty: moin fellows
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[06:17:12] certainty: shevy: https://youtu.be/48iKjUcENRE
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[06:30:46] shevy: ruby 3.0 !!!
[06:31:17] certainty: well not yet
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[06:32:43] shevy: codenamed LightningSpeed
[06:33:05] shevy: I am slowly reaching the point of where I am asking myself, what to write next in ruby
[06:33:46] certainty: shevy: the answer is nothing. Try another language
[06:33:48] certainty: like prolog
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[06:34:40] shevy: wow... :foo.class returned Fixnum
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[06:35:03] shevy: dunno about prolog... the syntax puts me off :(
[06:35:18] shevy: old rubies! as matz said
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[06:35:34] certainty: shevy: what puts you off there? It doesn't have so much syntax
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[06:36:05] shevy: everything!
[06:36:13] certainty: then try elixir
[06:36:14] shevy: the trailing .
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[06:36:27] certainty: it's only syntax
[06:36:52] shevy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog#Quicksort
[06:36:53] certainty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_eYTctGZw8
[06:36:56] shevy: ruby spoiled me
[06:36:57] certainty: i recommend that talk
[06:37:05] shevy: hey I just woke up!!!
[06:37:24] shevy: have to leave here soon :-)
[06:37:38] shevy: now you chain videos into me!
[06:38:05] shevy: I am at mark 03:33 of the matz video... 42 more minutes to go
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[06:38:46] certainty: shevy: you know about the secret browser feature? bookmarks
[06:39:53] shevy: this is the thing you add and add an add
[06:39:57] shevy: and never look at it again right?
[06:40:04] certainty: i look at them
[06:40:21] shevy: I think I have about 150 already... 80% of them will never be looked at again
[06:40:27] certainty: also i post them in the #bookmarks channel in our slack :p
[06:40:37] certainty: you have to decide
[06:40:43] certainty: some talks are worth investing the time
[06:40:53] Ox0dea: certainty: Why'd you link directly to that Quicksort implementation?
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[06:41:18] certainty: Ox0dea: i didn't :)
[06:41:34] Ox0dea: Ah, that explains it. :P
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[06:41:48] Ox0dea: You're both the same color.
[06:41:59] certainty: yeah a beautiful purple
[06:42:04] certainty: at least that's how i imagine me
[06:43:55] certainty: shevy: if you can effort it, really give the prolog talk i linked a try.
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[06:44:48] certainty: i don't use prolog, but relations in for example mini kanren. Not often enough though :(
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[06:45:31] Ox0dea: certainty: core.logic, then?
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[06:47:24] Ox0dea: certainty: Ruby + declarative programming = http://codon.com/hello-declarative-world
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[06:47:35] certainty: Ox0dea: i've only toyed around with it. I rarely do clojure currently
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[06:48:25] Ox0dea: I'm a sucker for sugar, and core.logic makes logic programming so purdy.
[06:48:28] certainty: there is a paper. Damn i don't remember it. I believe it was the first that proposed functional relational programming
[06:49:02] certainty: Ox0dea: thanks for the link
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[06:49:34] certainty: ah there it is: "Out of the tar pit"
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[06:50:35] certainty: http://shaffner.us/cs/papers/tarpit.pdf
[06:50:57] Ox0dea: 2006 was not the year "FRP" was born, of course.
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[06:51:53] Ox0dea: If you're really into that style, though, you might want to give Clojure a closer look.
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[06:52:50] certainty: Ox0dea: when did the reasoned schemer first appear? That was my first exposure to FRP
[06:53:14] Ox0dea: That wasn't the first "Schemer", though?
[06:53:16] certainty: Ox0dea: yeah i'd love to. So much to investigate, so few time
[06:53:24] certainty: nope it was the third
[06:53:46] certainty: the little and the seasoned came before if you mean that, but they didn't mention relations afair
[06:53:59] Ox0dea: Ah, fair enough.
[06:54:02] certainty: how old is FRP then? (not functional reactional)
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[06:54:35] certainty: nvm, i should have a closer look again
[06:54:46] Ox0dea: Unless I've grossly misunderstood the term, it's just a new name for an old trick.
[06:55:02] Ox0dea: CLOS mostly fits under the umbrella, in my estimation.
[06:55:27] certainty: hmm in what regard?
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[06:56:00] Ox0dea: Oh, sorry, that was my answer for when the R was "relational".
[06:56:24] Ox0dea: FRP, where the R is "reactive", is just ECS.
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[06:57:14] certainty: yeah i meant the relational part too. sorry for the confusion.
[06:57:26] Ox0dea: Too many TLAs.
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[06:57:53] certainty: CLOS doesn't have relations. So i suspect you mean something that i don't see
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[07:00:42] Ox0dea: No, you're right; I've got some unconflating to do.
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[07:02:39] freezevee: Hi all, can anyone please help me with Puma ? https://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/3myo1s/puma_is_failing/
[07:02:59] certainty: Ox0dea: alright. always happy to chat about these kinds of things
[07:03:18] certainty: not only lisp :)
[07:04:16] Ox0dea: There's a talk called "Clojure Is My Favorite Ruby".
[07:04:37] Ox0dea: Ruby is my favorite Lisp. ^_^
[07:05:13] certainty: scheme is my favorite lisp, but ruby is my favorite language when i'm not allowed to use my favorite lisp :)
[07:05:27] certainty: in the dynamic typing camp that is
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[07:09:38] shevy: (is(ruby(really(like(lisp?
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[07:10:55] certainty: compared to other non lisp languages?
[07:11:38] Ox0dea: certainty: Chicken or Guile?
[07:11:44] certainty: Ox0dea: CHICKEN
[07:11:51] Ox0dea: That is incorrect.
[07:11:58] shevy: oh... next release be a xmas release
[07:12:00] certainty: though guile is a nice implementation
[07:12:06] certainty: Ox0dea: what is incorrect?
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[07:12:41] certainty: shevy: yeah just like perl 6 :)
[07:12:48] Ox0dea: certainty: I was facetiously voicing my opinion that Guile is the superior implementation.
[07:13:29] certainty: Ox0dea: hehe. That's totally alright. andywingo did and does a great job.
[07:13:29] shevy: certainty the perl 6 release after 15 years sounds like an armageddon release
[07:14:00] certainty: Ox0dea: I know CHICKEN has its flaws but i got somehow stuck there since 2005 now
[07:14:12] Ox0dea: Many (perhaps even most) die in shorter timespans than it's taken Perl 6 to be (still)born.
[07:14:28] Ox0dea: certainty: Is it "CHICKEN", then?
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[07:14:42] Ox0dea: All-caps is mostly a CL thing.
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[07:14:51] certainty: yeah that's how the community agreed on the name
[07:15:11] certainty: originally felix proposed that
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[07:15:32] certainty: http://www.call-cc.org/ see the logo
[07:15:51] shevy: so the question is "chicken" versus "CHICKEN"
[07:15:55] shevy: but not "why this name"
[07:16:24] certainty: shevy: yeah :)
[07:16:29] certainty: chicken are noble animals
[07:17:03] Ox0dea: shevy: It's so that modules could be called eggs.
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[07:17:38] Ox0dea: ~ $ guile -c '(use-modules (ice-9 session)) (apropos ".")' | grep -c '#<proc'
[07:17:43] Ox0dea: And they say Scheme is tiny.
[07:18:18] certainty: the interesting thing about CHICKEN is probably its compiler
[07:18:24] Ox0dea: Guile has a compiler.
[07:18:28] Ox0dea: It's quite good too.
[07:18:33] certainty: i mean the technology
[07:18:41] Ox0dea: Source-to-source, you mean?
[07:18:44] certainty: it's based on "Cheney on the M.T.A"
[07:19:03] certainty: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html
[07:19:16] certainty: it used to be the first compiler that actually used that technique
[07:23:20] certainty: shevy: felix (the creator of CHICKEN) had a plastic toy of Feathers McGraw on his desk when he thought of a working title for the compiler.
[07:25:25] Ox0dea: Guile is just a pun on "scheme", but it's not terrible.
[07:25:35] Ox0dea: Not as good as Racket, admittedly.
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[07:28:14] shevy: those all caps freaks me out
[07:28:27] shevy: someone tell FELIX this
[07:28:32] Ox0dea: It's disgusting.
[07:28:54] shevy: certainty hah I heard that explanation before
[07:28:55] Ox0dea: Common Lisp symbols are case-insensitive!
[07:28:55] Couch: What's a good library for calling rest style json api's ?
[07:29:01] shevy: someone picked a nick after toothpaste
[07:29:09] shevy: because it was nearby at the time of when a name had to be picked
[07:29:18] Ox0dea: Couch: https://www.ruby-toolbox.com/categories/http_clients
[07:29:24] certainty: Ox0dea: speaking of racket. That's a decent implementation as well
[07:29:35] Ox0dea: certainty: Indeed it is.
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[07:30:28] Couch: Ox0dea, thank!
[07:30:33] Ox0dea: Couch: Sure thing.
[07:31:04] Ox0dea: certainty: I fondly remember the pleasant coincidence of my learning Racket and discovering the joy of cellular automata.
[07:32:08] Ox0dea: My n-color Langton's Ant GUI is lost to the ether, but it was ~30 lines of Racket. :<
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[07:34:15] Ox0dea: shevy: Did you know Ruby was almost called Coral?
[07:34:48] Ox0dea: For seriously.
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[07:35:09] tejasmanohar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)#The_name_.22Ruby.22 damn
[07:35:16] Ox0dea: http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/88819
[07:35:50] Ox0dea: Coral because the language was kind of like Shell at the time.
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[07:36:11] tejasmanohar: anyhow, time to pack for elixirconf :) - bet i'll see at least some rubyists from here there
[07:36:29] Ox0dea: > matz> But I want a smarter name. keiju> Toilet paper?
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[07:36:36] tejasmanohar: Ox0dea: I guess that makes sense
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[07:37:10] tejasmanohar: was replying to your first comment :P
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[07:38:06] spotted: I think I found an error on Codecademy
[07:38:28] Ox0dea: Not terribly unlikely.
[07:38:36] spotted: def display_balance(pin_number)
[07:38:36] spotted: puts pin_number == pin ? "Balance: $#{@balance}." : pin_error
[07:38:53] spotted: def display_balance(pin_number)
[07:38:53] spotted: pin_number == pin ? puts "Balance: #{@balance}" : pin_error
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[07:39:05] spotted: But if I try this it gives me error on progress
[07:39:18] apeiros: ew, side effect in ternary
[07:39:20] apeiros: don't. just don't.
[07:39:31] Ox0dea: spotted: Is `pin_error` returning a string?
[07:39:44] Ox0dea: Then your suggested fix is incorrect.
[07:39:55] Ox0dea: You're calling `pin_error` and throwing away the return value.
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[07:41:13] Ox0dea: Computers are very, very stupid.
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[07:42:15] shevy: and they will be until they'll become self-learning
[07:42:18] shevy: but skynet will also fail
[07:43:34] shevy: it was written in perl 5
[07:43:51] spotted: if pin_number == pin
[07:43:51] spotted: puts "Balance: #{@balance}"
[07:43:55] spotted: That works
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[07:44:11] shevy: and you got away with ternary \o/
[07:44:14] spotted: But the ternary operator does not work on Codecademy
[07:45:10] spotted: I do not understand why this is correct to them:
[07:45:11] spotted: puts pin_number == pin ? "Balance: $#{@balance}." : pin_error
[07:45:22] spotted: the first part of the ternary is the condition
[07:45:29] Ox0dea: spotted: Because it is printing in either case.
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[07:45:49] Ox0dea: If the conditional is true, it's printing the balance, and if it's not, the string in `pin_error` is displayed instead.
[07:46:29] Ox0dea: The way you've rewritten it, `pin_error` is being called, but you're not printing its return value.
[07:46:32] spotted: Ox0dea, doesn't the return in the function print the result when the function is called, in this case a string with an error?
[07:46:52] Ox0dea: spotted: No, not unless you explicitly tell it to do so.
[07:47:12] spotted: Ok so it just returns a value that I have to either print or store in a variable eventually
[07:47:19] Ox0dea: That's right.
[07:47:20] spotted: Now I got it clear, thanks. :)
[07:47:25] Ox0dea: Happy to help.
[07:47:57] spotted: I am gonna stay on Ruby until everything is clear before to go to ROR which is what I need
[07:48:08] Ox0dea: > everything is clear
[07:48:11] Ox0dea: Tall order, that.
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[07:48:33] spotted: Well, at least the basics... :))
[07:48:55] Ox0dea: Aye, I took your point. :) It certainly makes sense to learn to walk before you run.
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[07:50:58] Ox0dea: Deviad: I've said it before, but this is what happens if you try to learn Rails before you've got a solid Ruby foundation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRqGmmCy8aU
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[07:51:52] Deviad: Ox0dea, maybe instead of redoing all the course on Codecademy I should make the exercises on "Learn Ruby the hard way"
[07:51:56] Deviad: A book with exercises
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[07:52:21] Ox0dea: Deviad: Do you know about the Koans?
[07:52:34] Ox0dea: https://github.com/neo/ruby_koans
[07:53:27] Ox0dea: I think it's lacking in a few places, but if you take the time to really understand why you got the okay instead of racing to the top of the mountain, you'll come out primed to start piling on the details.
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[07:54:58] Deviad: Ox0dea, thanks, I will install it on my VM with Ubuntu
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[07:56:10] Ox0dea: Deviad: There's an online facsimile, if you'd prefer: http://rubykoans.com/
[07:56:13] Ox0dea: But you shouldn't.
[07:56:35] Ox0dea: Running it locally is more likely to get you addicted to red-green-refactor.
[07:56:37] Deviad: Ox0dea, it's funny that here in Romania I did not find any programmer that wants to switch from PHP to Ruby for some projects (I'm Italian).
[07:57:06] Ox0dea: PHP's tendrils are long and sticky. :/
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[07:57:33] Deviad: Ox0dea, as answers I got: Ruby is insecure, Ruy is slow...
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[07:58:54] Deviad: So I went to exploit repositories and it came out that PHP actually has a few bugs discovered in 2015 and actually it has a few refactoring tools
[07:59:11] Deviad: and Ruby has*
[07:59:36] Ox0dea: Deviad: It's true enough that PHP has gotten "better", for some definition.
[08:00:49] Deviad: Ox0dea, I cannot either disagree or agree on that given my knowledge of PHP, but if then I have to learn also Laravel and have twice the code I have with Ruby for the same app
[08:01:00] Ox0dea: Deviad: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[08:01:09] Ox0dea: That diatribe should help you make up your mind. :P
[08:01:10] Deviad: me I prefer Ruby then... the more you have to write the more mistake you are likely to make
[08:01:23] Deviad: mistakes*
[08:01:41] Ox0dea: A perfectly sensible view of the thing.
[08:02:07] Deviad: Otherwise they would have not devised C once they devised Assembly...
[08:02:30] Ox0dea: Well, you're talking about abstraction more than lines of code.
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[08:03:31] Deviad: Also, ruby has keywords like unless that everyone can understand and it improves your readability so far I would not think about learning something else
[08:05:03] Ox0dea: Deviad: There are many such features which make Ruby a pleasant language to program in, but mind you don't become a Blub programmer. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox
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[08:06:00] Ox0dea: That said, Ruby is objectively the greatest programming language ever devised.
[08:07:06] Deviad: Ox0dea, once my 10' is over, I am instaling koans. :))
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[08:30:11] agent_white: Ox0dea: +1 for Blub. Never seen that before!
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[08:30:44] certainty: agent_white: check out paul graham on that topic
[08:30:51] certainty: beating the average it was i believe
[08:31:18] agent_white: certainty: Yup! Looks like it! http://paulgraham.com/avg.html
[08:31:31] certainty: oh yeah it's linked there, sorry :)
[08:32:17] agent_white: certainty: Ah no worries! You knowing it reinforces the fact it's a fairly important read :D
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[08:35:53] certainty: agent_white: it has some good points but of course is quite biased
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[08:42:38] spotted: I just realized that in codecademy there is no mention to try catch kind of syntax
[08:43:21] adaedra: there's no "try" keyword, it's done with "begin ... rescue ... end" in ruby
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[08:47:26] bnagy: ruby has do, or do not. There is no try.
[08:48:09] adaedra: ssh, no try, only raise now.
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[08:49:14] certainty: spotted: probably throw and catch?
[08:49:18] certainty: that exists
[08:49:38] certainty: it allows you to have non local exits. Much like invoking continuations
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[08:55:41] certainty: shevy: matz mentions a quote from dave thomas that programming is the process of designing your own dsl. Turns out that's a core idea of lisp. Adding utilities that enrich the language so that you can express what you want to express in order to solve your problem
[08:57:02] spotted: adaedra: I was thinking about other exceptions, for example a user types a phone number in the wrong format
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[08:57:43] spotted: I had a look at throw and catch, it's like when a compiler finds an error, in an exam I was supposed to create a parser that did not stop at the first error
[08:57:58] adaedra: If it raises an exception, you catch it with rescue
[08:58:25] spotted: adaedra: OK, so begin and rescue are the tools in that case
[08:59:08] adaedra: You can restrict the exception you catch in rescue, i.e. `rescue MyApplication::FuckingUserIsNotCapableOfEnteringASimpleTelephoneNumber`
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[09:02:46] colorisco: how to fix such error? http://pastie.org/10453518
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[09:03:58] zenspider: colorisco: the file doesn't exist. either make it exist or load the file that does
[09:04:39] colorisco: which file?
[09:04:49] zenspider: colorisco: what does the error say?
[09:04:56] colorisco: i installed ruby and padrino and didn't change
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[09:06:12] zenspider: question for the channel: do you consider yourself a hacker (old school definition, not media def) and why?
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[09:06:25] zenspider: colorisco: no, the error doesn't say that
[09:06:42] herbst: zenspider: i do, because pretty much my whole free time is spent on geeky random technical projects
[09:07:17] atmosx: zenspider: absolutely not.
[09:07:20] bnagy: zenspider: yes
[09:07:42] zenspider: herbst: examples of said projects and motivations pls
[09:07:48] zenspider: bnagy: go on
[09:07:55] zenspider: atmosx: absolutely not what? and why?
[09:08:07] bnagy: because my full time job for the last X years has been software vulnerability research
[09:08:28] bnagy: so pretty squarely in the definition :P
[09:08:33] zenspider: mmmm... maybe I should start over with "what is your definition of hacker"?
[09:08:39] certainty: zenspider: yes. I'm constantly looking to expand my knowledge and working with people to actively share it. I'm striving for excellence. (i'm considering somewhat akin to the MIT hacker culture here)
[09:08:51] herbst: zenspider: from websites/services to "drivers" whatever comes to my mind. Like i found a LED strip cheap, so i bought it, wrote a custom driver in ruby and now have my custom led strip
[09:08:56] herbst: if thats not hacking, i have no idea what is
[09:09:05] bnagy: it's funny, the 90s definition was more or less either way
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[09:09:26] bnagy: unexpected programming / actual (what's now called) hacking
[09:09:33] zenspider: certainty: MIT is the basis of my definition too.
[09:09:43] bnagy: the people writing breathless defences of the term gave up like 25 years ago
[09:09:48] atmosx: zenspider: to make it short, I don't have all the requirements: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#basic_skills
[09:10:17] atmosx: I don't *fulfill*
[09:10:42] zenspider: do take esr w/ a grain of salt
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[09:10:57] bnagy: there's also quite a lot of hacking involved in hacking, as it were
[09:11:06] atmosx: zenspider: Yeah, I know. But that's what I call a hacker :-)
[09:11:12] bnagy: for researchers, anyway. Lots of gnarly code to write to do weird stuff.
[09:13:38] agent_white: I've heard "hacking" as "scrapping shit together" lately... I still think it means 'modifying something to do unintended things'.
[09:13:44] certainty: zenspider: may I know why you ask?
[09:13:52] zenspider: working on a talk
[09:14:06] certainty: what will it be about?
[09:14:46] zenspider: that's a damn good question.
[09:15:03] zenspider: the title is "mind of a hacker"... the actual outline? fuck if I know at this point
[09:15:13] adaedra: agent_white: lately?
[09:15:16] agent_white: Sounds like you had a goal in mind if you're asking the audience if they think they're a hacker.
[09:15:40] certainty: zenspider: but that's a central point. being a hacker is a mindset. It's most of the time associated with tech stuff but it needs not, as you know
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[09:15:45] agent_white: adaedra: As in the past few years or so. 'Weekend hack' or 'hacked together' are the phrases I've heard.
[09:15:45] bnagy: https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator <- hacking :P
[09:15:57] zenspider: certainty: yup yup
[09:16:05] certainty: that's why i don't like those "you're a hacker if you know x,y" stuff
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[09:16:59] zenspider: bnagy: hah! that's... well that's horrible. :) I guess mov is the nand/nor of the compiler world
[09:17:12] certainty: i guess many of the early hackers beside making hacks for the first computers had visions. They recognized what's lacking and found a way to provide it in a smart way
[09:17:20] certainty: rms for example
[09:17:23] bnagy: I think they followed up with compilers for XOR and SUB
[09:17:47] zenspider: "The M/o/Vfuscator contains a complete mov-only floating point emulator." jesus ... wow
[09:17:49] bnagy: loaaads of hax in early unix
[09:18:12] bnagy: resource constraints will do that when you're inventing compilers
[09:19:26] certainty: rms also notes that being playful with your solutions to difficult tasks is somewhat characteristic
[09:19:42] certainty: anyway back to work :)
[09:19:43] bnagy: it might be reasonable to say that hacking is about making something do something it's not really supposed to do
[09:19:50] zenspider: certainty: thanks
[09:19:58] certainty: bnagy: yeah that's a good point
[09:20:00] certainty: zenspider: yw
[09:20:07] bnagy: which works just as well for hacking in the security sense
[09:20:09] zenspider: bnagy: yeah. I like that
[09:20:10] agent_white: certainty: I dunno. Is that being a 'hacker'? Filling a need?
[09:20:14] agent_white: Or is that just programming?
[09:20:21] zenspider: also: understanding systems you're not meant to understand... etc
[09:21:02] Deviad: Is it possible to use retry after rescue a defined number of times, let's say 3?
[09:21:18] bnagy: Deviad: just use a counter in the rescue block
[09:21:18] atmosx: zenspider: if I may ask, what kind of audience do you expect to face in this talk?
[09:21:24] atmosx: zenspider: ruby conf?
[09:21:29] zenspider: Deviad: don't understand your question... "defined" a number of times?
[09:21:42] zenspider: atmosx: LA ruby conf
[09:21:46] Deviad: zenspider, I read that retry loops infinitely
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[09:21:53] Deviad: until the user takes proper action
[09:21:54] agent_white: Aye, that's what I said. Modifying/manipulating a system to produce unintended results... aka, the de-facto example of the cap'n crunch whistle.
[09:22:00] certainty: agent_white: nope, i was unclear about that. It's about seeing that something doesn't provide what you want and make it possible
[09:22:15] Deviad: but let's say I want to use this to let the user input his credit card number, normally he has got 3 tries
[09:22:17] zenspider: retry just jumps once
[09:22:18] agent_white: certainty: Ahhh.
[09:22:19] bnagy: man I can't stand that guy :( (crunch)
[09:22:21] zenspider: YOU tell it to keep jumping
[09:22:34] zenspider: bnagy: which?
[09:22:36] atmosx: Deviad: you set up a counter, a keep track. See here: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1746200/577133
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[09:22:58] bnagy: zenspider: cap'n crunch, the whistle guy
[09:23:00] agent_white: bnagy: Me neither. But I thought it was interesting how he said 'It was the blind-kids who figured it out...'
[09:23:16] zenspider: I might be blissfully ignorant on this one
[09:23:29] colorisco: i updated rvm and problem was fixed
[09:23:35] colorisco: strange error
[09:23:45] agent_white: How they knew that frequency of 2600 just by ear... it's like it was meant to be (a blind person recognizing such a specific freq.)
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[09:23:57] atmosx: bnagy: you know him irl?
[09:23:58] bnagy: old hacker, used to use a slide whistle from cereal box to spoof phone network tones
[09:23:58] agent_white: zenspider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Draper
[09:24:23] bnagy: atmosx: for some definition of "know" yeah
[09:24:33] atmosx: bnagy: really? heh
[09:24:33] Deviad: atmosx, thank you!
[09:24:43] atmosx: Deviad: :-)
[09:24:49] zenspider: ah ah ah... right. thanks.
[09:25:33] zenspider: my dad supposedly went to college with someone of the same caliber. timeframes match up pretty well too
[09:25:40] agent_white: Blow a cereal box whistle into a phone, initiate a new trunk... cool stuff.
[09:26:19] bnagy: opinions of his technical haxxing abilities (apart from the whistle) vary
[09:26:41] bnagy: but then again he was a contemporary (and once at least acquaintance) of woz
[09:26:42] atmosx: zenspider: but anyway, don't go *there* IMHO, since we're talking mainly about programmers, they will have a definition of hacker much closer to ESR (know more than 2 programming paradigms, invovled with open source, technically flawless on some fields, etc.).
[09:26:58] agent_white: Aye I bet. Like I said, he said he learned about it from 'the blind kids'. So he probably just ended up being the face of it all for whatever reason.
[09:27:12] certainty: the reversing community is a good example of hackers
[09:27:31] bnagy: I don't think I can get behind a definition of hacking / hacker that is based on what you know
[09:27:32] certainty: ok i need to become a hacker at english
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[09:28:01] bnagy: but I certainly think 'hackers' have things in common about approach / attitude etc
[09:28:29] bnagy: it's certainly not book larnin
[09:28:30] agent_white: Or the BGP hack... shit, definition of 'hacking'. They used the BGP protocol as programmed, without modifications, to encur undesired consequences.
[09:28:40] agent_white: s/programmed/defined/
[09:29:22] atmosx: IMHO it's a kind of "honor" that others should give t you. Going around saying "I'm a hacker" is ridiculous IMHO.
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[09:30:09] certainty: i don't think that's necessarily true. But it certainly doesn't make you a hacker just by saying you are
[09:30:11] bnagy: I self identify as a hacker. Your argument is invalid.
[09:30:54] agent_white: _why's freakyfreaky sandbox also was a badass 'hack'. Redefining ruby internals/symtables/etc to make a sandbox? Kewl stuff.
[09:30:58] bnagy: it's >20 years to late to untangle 'hacking' from a security connotation
[09:31:06] atmosx: bnagy: well, you might be one. I don't know, I'm not familiar with your resume.
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[09:31:45] zenspider: atmosx: there seems little H about your IMHO declarations
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[09:31:54] bnagy: I don't feel like it's _limited_ to security stuff, by any means
[09:32:18] zenspider: bnagy: of course not. but there is probably selection bias in that subfield
[09:32:21] bnagy: but I also don't feel like choosing the flight that has the most miles make you a travel hacker or whatever
[09:32:29] agent_white: bnagy: Aye. Very rhetorical.
[09:32:42] zenspider: I'm the worst travel hacker ever then
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[09:33:11] agent_white: zenspider: What's the aim for your talk, anyways?
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[09:34:34] zenspider: bnagy: I am trying to come at this from the "approach / attitude" perspective. at least mine. not the history of or notable hackers or whatnot.
[09:34:52] zenspider: agent_white: to educate and/or entertain for 30-45 minutes
[09:35:21] agent_white: zenspider: Haha fair enough!
[09:35:22] atmosx: zenspider: can you identify 5 ppl that would you call 'hackers'? WIthout taking any kind of pointer for this discussion. Actually before this talk?
[09:35:35] bnagy: hackers I know of either stripe are self-directed, tend towards individualism, often maybe a bit obsessive, and favour results over form
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[09:37:35] herbst: RMS, Torvalds, early Gates, Jobs & Woznark. Those are classic hackers IMHO
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[09:37:52] zenspider: atmosx: I believe we're done. I don't find any of your dialog to be constructive and you've already said you don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't see the point of it.
[09:37:57] certainty: i don't know
[09:38:18] atmosx: zenspider: ok
[09:38:25] herbst: notice the "early". He wasnt a code hacker tho, but for sure a mind hacker
[09:38:35] herbst: i am no fan of apple myself
[09:38:39] bnagy: I don't think iconic programmers are the best examples of hackers.
[09:38:49] zenspider: mind. hacker. so... david copperfield ?
[09:38:58] bnagy: I mean writing an OS for fun is not _not_ hacking, sure
[09:39:33] herbst: with mind i rather ment: marketing, design, feelings. he was good at that shit
[09:40:05] certainty: hmm i somewhat associate ethic with hackers
[09:40:12] certainty: i know that term is very fuzzy
[09:40:23] certainty: but jobs, well
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[09:43:37] bnagy: probably a certain degree of anti-authoritarianism has been fairly central to 'hacking / hackers' in all sense
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[09:44:48] zenspider: F.A.Q: Q: Why did you make this? A: I thought it would be funny.
[09:45:03] zenspider: from movfuscator
[09:45:34] agent_white: In the simplest forms... http://www.cultdeadcow.com/cDc_files/cDc-0334.html -- "how to be an anarchist at 7-11" -- "... stir your slurpee... you'll notice a cylindrical hole in the slurpee... core out the center multiple times and refill for max slurpee potential"
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[09:48:13] agent_white: zenspider: From the same group... you might get some ideas from this one. "Confessions of a c0dez kid" http://www.cultdeadcow.com/cDc_files/cDc-0395.html
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[09:55:55] porfa: hahaha hello
[09:56:46] certainty: agent_white: haha haven't heard of them in a while. What was is back orifice?
[09:57:05] agent_white: certainty: Yup, same dudes who did back orifice :)
[09:57:48] certainty: i loved that when i was young
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[10:01:40] certainty: that's also when i was doing crackmes all night
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[10:03:30] porfa: i have a problem in a loop??? my loop creates an element, and fills in data from array, but these elements are named in a sequence (f04_0001, f04_0002, f04_0003 and so on..)
[10:04:11] porfa: the thing is, my loop can't fil the data to the element f04_0010, because my loop is saying to fill it to "f04_00010"
[10:04:35] zenspider: Porfa: lemme guess... you're STILL doing strings and abusing eval?
[10:04:57] porfa: no no zenspider, i found the light
[10:05:07] zenspider: prove it. show some code
[10:05:32] shevy: Porfa remember the [TIME STAMP] above? :>
[10:05:33] agent_white: certainty: I was a hackthissite kid myself :P
[10:05:43] porfa: shevy: ahha ofcourse
[10:06:05] shevy: <Porfa> and everything is working now as expected
[10:06:06] shevy: <shevy> [TIME STAMP]
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[10:06:27] shevy: Porfa you need to start to use methods
[10:06:34] shevy: ensure that the method returns the desired result
[10:06:55] shevy: such as the incrementing string "f04_0010" "f04_0011" and like starting one "f04_0001"
[10:07:22] [k-: >> "f04_%d4" % [1]
[10:07:23] ruboto: [k- # => "f04_14" (https://eval.in/442925)
[10:07:24] shevy: once you put the stuff into a method, it will be easier, since all you have to do is change your method if you need a change in the generating-pattern
[10:07:35] [k-: >> "f04_%4d" % [1]
[10:07:36] ruboto: [k- # => "f04_ 1" (https://eval.in/442926)
[10:07:47] shevy: [k- look - Ox0dea was back. he is gone again though
[10:07:58] [k-: you are slow
[10:08:05] [k-: slow slow slow
[10:08:09] shevy: hey I was not home!
[10:08:36] porfa: zenspider: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/98cb1301a73c85a59ff2
[10:08:37] [k-: well ok, but can you prove it?
[10:09:44] zenspider: that sure looks like strings to me...
[10:09:55] [k-: &ri String#% @Porfa
[10:09:55] `derpy: Porfa: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/String#%25-instance_method
[10:09:56] porfa: remove the the '
[10:09:59] [k-: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/Kernel.html#method-i-sprintf
[10:10:06] [k-: check the two links out
[10:10:41] zenspider: none of that makes any sense to me. all sorts of things that are confusing as fuck
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[10:11:20] porfa: i guess i'll just limit the loop to 10 then
[10:11:30] [k-: * sighs *
[10:11:36] [k-: do you not read?
[10:11:45] shevy: Porfa quit being a noob man, ACCEPT THE CHALLENGES, IMPROVE THE CODE
[10:12:00] [k-: the problem is, f04_000 is hardcoded
[10:12:12] [k-: when ruby increments it, it just tacks it to the end
[10:12:15] zenspider: making an array of numbers from 1 to N, enumerating w/ each_with_index so you can ALSO have 0 to N-1. generating strings of code using index+1 ... what. the. fuck.
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[10:12:31] shevy: Porfa btw, if you want to use #{} in a string, you have to use "" not ''
[10:12:35] [k-: f04_000 + 1 = f04_0001
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[10:12:45] zenspider: guys. the variable names don't matter
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[10:12:51] [k-: f04_000 + 10 = f04_00010
[10:12:54] zenspider: the lack of clarity of goal here does
[10:12:58] adaedra: [k-: it's a shame String#%'s documentation doesn't explain much.
[10:13:20] [k-: yeah, so we have to check two links :(
[10:13:48] zenspider: adaedra: sarcasm?
[10:13:58] porfa: zenspider: met, i was doing hello world 2 months ago, EVER.
[10:14:15] porfa: i was forced to learn how to use ruby to help my family company
[10:14:32] porfa: and i have been learning as i go, I'm a total newb but i am being able to help them out
[10:14:36] porfa: so I'm happy with that
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[10:14:54] adaedra: zenspider: no. You have to go to Kernel::sprintf to have flags. So when you link to String#% doc, there's not too much.
[10:15:18] zenspider: adaedra: except explicit instruction pointing you at sprintf
[10:15:30] zenspider: seems like the bases are covered
[10:15:32] adaedra: zenspider: I know
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[10:15:43] adaedra: But that's another step!
[10:15:49] adaedra: Such a waste of time!
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[10:16:03] zenspider: I'm going to pretend there's sarcasm
[10:16:11] porfa: they have been wasting massive amounts of time to manually open a product page from the supplier, copy paste every little info into our business back office, and then taking the images, resizing them, and uploading.. thanks to ruby i am able to do all of that in 2 minutes now, running "script.rb "url to site" from my terminal. i create products pretty fast this way.
[10:16:16] adaedra: In the last ones, yes, there is.
[10:16:50] [k-: Porfa, see String#succ (workmad3)
[10:17:15] porfa: i will google that hopefully i will get there
[10:18:26] shevy: >> "b".succ
[10:18:27] ruboto: shevy # => "c" (https://eval.in/442934)
[10:18:44] shevy: the next epic task for Porfa will be to learn how to use methods in ruby
[10:18:44] [k-: >> "0009".succ
[10:18:45] ruboto: [k- # => "0010" (https://eval.in/442936)
[10:19:02] adaedra: zenspider: note that I completely understand why it's done this way and have no problem with the documentation itself. Just the two steps which are minor annoyances. No offences intended.
[10:19:08] porfa: just to read you saying that send shivers down my spine, wth is a method
[10:20:37] porfa: i shoulda have learned ruby with the masters when i was in GNAA 10 years ago
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[10:21:30] adaedra: "wth is a method"
[10:21:35] adaedra: this is ruby basics
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[10:22:05] shevy: Porfa methods/functions are everywhere, it won't matter from where you pick it up so you need to start doing so
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[10:27:31] shevy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby2.0/+bug/1310292
[10:27:38] shevy: "installing `ruby2.0` results in ruby 1.9.3-p484 as default version"
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[10:27:52] porfa: if i read Learn to Program by Chris Pine, will i be better? i will read it 5 times in a row before touching any other book
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[10:28:16] porfa: i only got that ruby book, i got it like two weeks ago, but i've been so filled with this stupid scripts that i haven't got the time to pick it up
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[10:29:12] workmad3: Porfa: have you considered that if you took the time to read that book, you'd probably be able to sort out your script in a tiny fraction of the time you've already taken?
[10:30:20] porfa: i know, but if i stop the business gets hit, I'm running out time to do my own stuff, and that own stuff isn't playing video games or drinking
[10:30:30] porfa: but i guess i have to find a way
[10:32:03] workmad3: Porfa: the business is getting hit anyway if you're spending way too long because you don't know the foundations
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[10:35:14] shevy: you need to learn the basics
[10:35:37] shevy: then you'll be allowed to grow a beard like workmad3
[10:35:43] shevy: which will dignify you as a mighty hacker
[10:35:59] workmad3: shevy: my beard isn't @ mighty hacker lengths yet
[10:36:09] workmad3: more unix acolyte neckbeoard
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[10:36:52] tuor: hi, what gem would you use for managing keepass databases? (I know there are multiple but which one do you recomend?)
[10:37:06] porfa: weev had a nice beard :(
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[10:38:07] Radar: tuor: There are many?
[10:38:12] Radar: I only see https://rubygems.org/gems/keepass/versions/0.0.1
[10:38:39] tuor: "gem search --remote keepass" gives me 5
[10:39:53] workmad3: tuor: check them out on rubygems
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[10:44:53] Radar: I've never heard of keepass before now
[10:45:20] workmad3: Radar: it's a secure vault for asses... `keep-ass`
[10:45:38] certainty: make perfect sense
[10:46:07] workmad3: certainty: exactly... there's a growing need to keep donkeys safe!
[10:46:22] certainty: workmad3: and it's good to see that it gets adressed
[10:46:28] certainty: the world is changing for the better
[10:47:21] certainty: for me it turned out that never stop learning the basics
[10:47:26] certainty: i'm always a beginner in something
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[10:51:41] adaedra: but are you a beginner at being beginner ?
[10:52:20] certainty: adaedra: hmm, not if the experience i have with being a beginner makes me a non beginner
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[11:05:58] certainty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EeWXojdqvU good talk
[11:09:09] workmad3: certainty: opened, just need to find 40 minutes of free time
[11:09:13] workmad3: or a transcript :)
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[11:09:36] certainty: workmad3: it's tenderlove. you'd miss the most fun part in a transcript
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[11:15:37] zenspider: certainty: the part where he laughs at his own jokes?
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[11:16:41] certainty: zenspider: heh, yes. Basically how he presents the, erm, presentation
[11:17:04] KinderSpiel: Can someone help me out with Generators?
[11:17:10] KinderSpiel: git@gist.github.com:2787c9823dccf09f4b5c.git
[11:17:26] KinderSpiel: I'm trying to convert some really old scripts, having some success
[11:17:51] KinderSpiel: bumped into the generators and it's getting to be a bit of a black howl
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[11:18:26] KinderSpiel: Ruby gods, come to me!
[11:18:44] KinderSpiel: er, more rails, really :-\
[11:19:10] ruboto: Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
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[11:19:27] jhass: also share the URL in your browser to gists ;)
[11:20:09] bnagy: true Generators are still a bit hairy afaik
[11:20:34] zenspider: certainty: gah. I'm watching this and it's just painful.
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[11:20:54] bnagy: rescue StopIteration is .. not the most elegant ruby api ever
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[11:21:32] certainty: zenspider: i had fun watching it :)
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[11:23:49] zenspider: I get enough terrible puns having lunch w/ him. I don't need more
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[11:24:41] certainty: zenspider: heh, i totally get that. I get them in small dosis only through his talks
[11:25:19] certainty: there is always a level of "too much"
[11:25:48] KinderSpiel: check it out here: git@gist.github.com:2787c9823dccf09f4b5c.git
[11:26:24] certainty: dosis = doses
[11:29:10] adaedra: KinderSpiel: can you give the URL of the page, as the one in your address bar, instead of the git clone link?
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[11:30:31] adadada: does any1 know how to iterate over files in a directory in an erb template in ruby?
[11:30:37] certainty: now that'? going to be difficult to distinguish from adaedra
[11:30:49] KinderSpiel: don't really want links to my gh account to end up in archives, but I suppose there's no other way, is there?
[11:30:49] adadada: well sorry
[11:30:52] bnagy: https://gist.github.com/jjsantos/2787c9823dccf09f4b5c
[11:30:58] jhass: adadada: do you know how to do it outside of an erb template?
[11:31:13] adadada: I have several ways, I just cant seem to do it in the template
[11:31:22] KinderSpiel: https://gist.github.com/jjsantos/2787c9823dccf09f4b5c
[11:31:24] adadada: i use Dir.glob('...').
[11:31:31] jhass: adadada: show your attempts
[11:31:38] adadada: ok, a sec plx
[11:31:38] bnagy: KinderSpiel: and it's still probably a better question for #rubyonrails
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[11:32:08] KinderSpiel: bnagy can't write anything on that window
[11:32:16] jhass: ?rails KinderSpiel
[11:32:17] ruboto: KinderSpiel, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
[11:32:20] Radar: KinderSpiel: Register with nickserv first.
[11:32:27] certainty: adadada: the long answer that you probably don't iterate in a template. there might be legitimate reasons but i'd think twice
[11:32:43] certainty: over directories
[11:33:14] jhass: adadada: just show your attempt ;)
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[11:37:38] adadada: ok so for example I tried this: http://pastebin.com/WfQyyC1b
[11:37:38] ruboto: adadada, we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/8892b394ca700008d32f
[11:37:38] ruboto: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
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[11:38:07] adadada: but I get an unexpected ';'
[11:38:08] jhass: adadada: why .do? do you do that in regular Ruby code too?
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[11:38:31] adadada: no, i used reject in normal ruby code
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[11:38:47] adadada: ok i put my first attempt
[11:38:50] jhass: well, this is about syntax, not which method you call
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[11:41:51] rubybeginner: Hey guys. Does anyone have Ruby essential training lynda com
[11:42:29] adadada: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b58471e657de4709e420 I tried copying the original code from ruby as much as possible
[11:42:37] adadada: but it gives me all kinds of weird errors
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[11:43:54] adadada: syntax error, unexpected tSTRING_BEG, expecting ')'
[11:44:08] [k-: eww so ugly
[11:44:12] [k-: erb is kill
[11:44:20] adadada: what, this code?
[11:44:31] adadada: I am trying to make it work
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[11:44:43] [k-: it does not have &:itself?
[11:44:46] adadada: before beautifying
[11:44:57] jhass: adadada: that wouldn't work in regular code either
[11:44:59] adadada: I don?t know what that means
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[11:45:27] jhass: [k-: turn a step down, we're at basics of how the syntax for blocks looks like
[11:45:41] [k-: doesn't adaedra know?!
[11:45:51] jhass: adadada: ".each |f|" do you write that in your regular code exactly like this too?
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[11:45:56] [k-: you need a do
[11:45:58] adaedra: know what ?
[11:46:05] [k-: .each do |f|
[11:46:20] jhass: adadada: so don't in erb
[11:46:37] [k-: who is adadada
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[11:46:48] adadada: I understand this
[11:47:10] [k-: adaedra adadada?!
[11:47:27] [k-: im confused
[11:47:28] adadada: however it gets already a synax error in the code that is like the ruby code
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[11:47:46] certainty: [k-: two different nicks
[11:47:52] [k-: i thought adadada was adaedea
[11:47:57] [k-: adaedra*
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[11:48:07] adaedra: [k-: look at the hosts. I'm not in NL.
[11:48:23] [k-: no, i took mental shortcuts
[11:48:35] jhass: adaedra: we can't see your screen
[11:48:40] jhass: adadada: ^
[11:48:42] [k-: i saw many as and many ds
[11:48:49] certainty: told you it's going to be confusing
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[11:48:50] jhass: you two are fucking up weechat's LRU
[11:49:53] jhass: I'll just kick two I guess
[11:49:54] adaedra: maybe we can go back to ruby, instead of making fun of our nicks?
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[11:50:13] adadada: ok wait a minute, I will show the ruby code I try to use in the template
[11:50:42] adadada: or, maybe I can just write a method to retrieve my data and iterate over the output of hte method?
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[11:50:54] adadada: maybe is better
[11:50:59] jhass: it probably is
[11:51:08] jhass: depends a bit on the context of all this
[11:51:21] adadada: yesh it is capistrano deployment stuff
[11:51:31] `derpy: I think it's better to keep operations in the erb at a minimum
[11:51:37] jhass: no idea how to structure these cleanly then
[11:52:15] adadada: anyway, I will try what I just said I guess
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[11:53:35] `derpy: [k-: don't you have colors in your IRC client to differentiate people?
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[11:55:26] adadada: thanks for hte help anyway!
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[12:08:47] [k-: i do, that's why i was confused when there was another colour
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[12:09:11] [k-: that was how i found out adadada wasnt adaedra
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[12:30:14] odigity: I just added bookmarks directly to all core and stdlib docs I might want to use in my broswer for convenience. Many, there is a ton of crap in there. I feel bad for the maintainers. I kind of wish they had used ruby 2 as an opportunity to kick out half of it (at least from core to stdlib).
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[12:32:10] odigity: It was both eye-opening an educational. For example, did you know 3/2 == 1? But when you require 'mathn' (which I didn't know existed before this), then 2/3 == 3/2?
[12:35:48] shevy: [k- damn it, I thought it was adaedra
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[12:39:44] atmosx: >> require 'mathn'; 2/3 == 3/2
[12:39:45] ruboto: atmosx # => false (https://eval.in/443000)
[12:40:26] atmosx: odigity: I'm not sure what you mean by 2/3 == 3/2
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[12:43:09] odigity: atmosx, typo: I mean't 3/2 == 3/2 (diving 3 by 2 yields a Rational equal to 3/2)
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[12:47:35] [k-: shevy: we all did
[12:47:43] [k-: even jhass's weechat
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[12:49:02] jhass: odigity: rational literal is (will be?) 3/2r
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[12:51:23] jhass: >> (3/2r).class
[12:51:24] ruboto: jhass # => Rational (https://eval.in/443004)
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[12:52:24] [k-: >> [*1..5].each_cons(2).map { |a, b| (a/b.to_r) }
[12:52:25] ruboto: [k- # => [(1/2), (2/3), (3/4), (4/5)] (https://eval.in/443009)
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[12:56:28] [k-: By "it is?", i meant, it already is?
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[12:57:31] [k-: >> 4.5/2r
[12:57:32] ruboto: [k- # => 2.25 (https://eval.in/443011)
[12:59:07] zomgbie: I would love to chat with anybody trying to shoot for a microservice architecture who wants to be dependent on as few gems as possible. Is Sinatra still a good way to go about this or does a Rack based application really suffice?
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[13:00:21] zomgbie: By suffice I mean still being practical... There is so much going on grape, volt (the whole opal stack is interesting from a UI perspective - i.e. building an API for a mobile app while still delivering a HTML based frontend)
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[13:00:39] zomgbie: React.rb... too many choices.
[13:00:47] zomgbie: (First world problems!:D)
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[13:01:58] zomgbie: E.g. I always liked Rails :format json/html in controllers so that is something which speaks for Sinatra in my book... but I'm still undecided, supposedly you can (and should?) run Sinatra alongside grape (for REST api only)...
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[13:03:52] shevy: a zombie! run!
[13:04:50] Ox0dea: Zombies {do,ca}n't eat grapes.
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[13:06:50] [k-: {,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,}
[13:06:55] [k-: StackOverflow
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[13:08:46] Ox0dea: >> `ls {,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,}`
[13:08:47] ruboto: Ox0dea # => (https://eval.in/443014)
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[13:09:33] johnzorn: I'm writing a method for a class and would like to do something like this: collection.select(self.even?) is this possible or do I have to create a block?
[13:10:12] adaedra: What are you trying to do, select even numbers in your collection?
[13:10:27] adaedra: collection.select(&:even?) # may be what you look for
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[13:11:17] johnzorn: no it's more like: possible_neighbours(cell).select(alive?)
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[13:11:31] johnzorn: alive? being a method on the class
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[13:12:25] adaedra: johnzorn: so, as a block, .select { |e| e.alive? } ?
[13:12:30] zomgbie: shevz, Ox0dea BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIN!!!! ??D
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[13:13:18] Ox0dea: johnzorn: `select(&:alive?)` will do.
[13:13:31] Ox0dea: It's functionally equivalent to the block form adaedra suggested.
[13:14:03] adaedra: Ox0dea: I was trying to confirm if it's the need, actually.
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[13:16:21] [k-: are you sure adaedra is speaking and not adadada?
[13:16:24] Ox0dea: adaedra: Well, johnzorn is clearly doing Conway's Game of Life, so it's quite likely Cell#alive? is the method he means to filter on.
[13:16:50] adaedra: Ox0dea: right.
[13:17:02] adaedra: [k-: stop that. You're highlighting two people for nothing.
[13:17:27] Ox0dea: >> 0 == 0.5 # adaedra
[13:17:28] ruboto: Ox0dea # => false (https://eval.in/443019)
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[13:17:57] Ox0dea: adaedra: It wasn't for "nothing"? Half of them responded.
[13:18:02] johnzorn: hehe I haven't created a cell class yet, I'm going test by test
[13:18:11] adaedra: Ox0dea: >_>
[13:18:13] Ox0dea: johnzorn: So what has an #alive? method?
[13:18:47] [k-: select boards which are alive?
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[13:19:07] johnzorn: board.alive? cell
[13:19:22] [k-: then you cant use &:alive?
[13:19:46] [k-: this is similar to grid...
[13:19:47] Ox0dea: johnzorn: You'll have to say `select(&Board.method(:alive?))`, but you really ought not.
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[13:20:18] Ox0dea: `select(&Foo.method(:bar))` == `select { |x| Foo.bar(x) }`
[13:20:37] [k-: check the length!
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[13:20:47] Ox0dea: Eyeball it.
[13:21:13] Ox0dea: johnzorn: For what it's worth, "possible_neighbours" is a wordy misnomer; they're all neighbors.
[13:21:20] Ox0dea: Conway's Game of Life is secretly a graveyard.
[13:21:41] Ox0dea: Cheap profundity is best profundity.
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[13:22:15] [k-: i bet i could repurpose grid to conway's game of life after i finish it
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[13:28:52] johnzorn: Ox0dea: well the implementation I'm doing is a sparse implementation. So Board is just a set subclass with [x,y] pairs for the 'alive' cells and nothing more. possible_neighbours is given an x,y and returns all the [x,y]s around it not actually checking the board. I was using that in my neighbours method which actually did check those possible_neighbors if they where alive
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[13:29:55] Ox0dea: johnzorn: But how can a cell "possibly" neighbor another cell?
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[13:31:30] Darkwater: the 'possibly' is just redundant
[13:31:32] Ox0dea: Mind we're discussing a cellular automaton.
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[13:32:26] Ox0dea: Darkwater: Which information is being unnecessarily duplicated?
[13:32:28] johnzorn: ok so possibly_alive_neighbours was what I meant
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[13:33:01] johnzorn: ok surrounding_cells then
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[13:33:08] Ox0dea: So... neighbors?
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[13:35:08] johnzorn: Ox0dea: in my head neighbours are the surrounding cells that are alive. I guess I'm thinking in terms of something is there or isn't and that's causing confusion
[13:35:21] Ox0dea: johnzorn: Yes, that does seem to be the case.
[13:35:35] Ox0dea: Refer to my graveyard joke from earlier.
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[13:37:25] Ox0dea: It's sensible enough to use "dead" and "alive" to disambiguate.
[13:37:31] ruby-lang123: register passwd
[13:37:41] Ox0dea: Well done.
[13:37:43] jhass: ruby-lang123: poor choice
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[13:38:20] Ox0dea: johnzorn: If I understand correctly, you're using an O(n) approach to determine live neighbors where an O(1) is available.
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[13:38:42] Ox0dea: Iterating over every single pair to find live neighbors is a little silly. :x
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[13:38:54] Ox0dea: Sure, you've got a sparse representation, but at what cost?
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[13:40:57] Ox0dea: Use Hash with a default to get the best of both worlds.
[13:41:22] [k-: at least it is better than O(n^2) :(
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[14:04:33] karapetyan: what you think about it:
[14:04:38] karapetyan: http://fasten.com
[14:05:14] karapetyan: Does anyone already try it?
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[14:07:19] [k-: ?ot karapetyan
[14:07:19] ruboto: karapetyan, this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related topics. Thanks!
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[14:09:40] Ox0dea: He doesn't usually spam.
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[14:15:43] [k-: i wouldn't have directed him to ?ot otherwise
[14:18:12] shevy: certainty one thing I like about the matz talk was that he explained why the "did you mean this" gem was added
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[14:21:49] Ox0dea: Because Ruby is severely lacking in the discoverability department.
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[14:25:33] shevy: it's the man-machine interface as matz explained!
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[14:32:42] shevy: do you people sometimes approach your own code as being able to evolve on its own?
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[14:35:09] KinderSpiel: hey ruby-lang744
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[14:35:16] ruby-lang744: Hi KinderSpiel
[14:35:23] shevy: german nicks!
[14:35:50] KinderSpiel: I used it a long time ago, maybe I???ll get back to it
[14:36:22] KinderSpiel: you in germany shevy?
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[14:36:34] ruby-lang744: What I'm asking is probably trivial. I'm fetching JSON and putting them into an array of hashes. The hashes have a key "type" and a selection of values. How can I filter, before I'm putting anything in the array, for the "type" value?
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[14:37:22] ruby-lang744: let's say there are four key values that should pass, all the others should fail and not be put into the array
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[14:39:06] shevy: KinderSpiel austria
[14:39:16] brazenbraden: has joined #ruby
[14:39:37] shevy: but #ruby is full of german nicks... Papierkorb ... flughafen (ok he is not here right now) ... platzhirsch ... in the past also brotspinne
[14:39:58] Ox0dea: https://eval.in/443060
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[14:40:51] KinderSpiel: lol, too funny
[14:41:13] adaedra: Aren't KinderSpiel forbidden in the US now?
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[14:41:27] phreakocious: does it seem reasonable that spawning 200 ruby processes is faster than 200 threads for doing the same work? the only mutex locked activity is pushing items into an array..
[14:41:54] jhass: phreakocious: on MRI if your operations are not IO bound, yes
[14:42:02] jhass: consider JRuby perhaps
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[14:42:16] phreakocious: it's all just sending/receiving UDP packets
[14:42:32] jhass: well, the sending never blocks I guess
[14:42:43] KinderSpiel: adaedra that was something else i think
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[14:43:11] KinderSpiel: some child candy
[14:43:11] KinderSpiel: off to the rails room, see ya
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[14:43:58] Ox0dea: adaedra: Did you mean "KinderSurprise"?
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[14:44:35] adaedra: Ox0dea: well, iirc it was the toy that was problematic.
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[14:45:21] Ox0dea: What a world.
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[14:57:12] ruby-lang744: hm. Is there a ruby help channel, by any chance?
[14:57:51] ruby-lang744: I see. Then here it is again:
[14:57:56] ruby-lang744: What I'm asking is probably trivial. I'm fetching JSON and putting them into an array of hashes. The hashes have a key "type" and a selection of values. How can I filter, before I'm putting anything in the array, for the "type" value?
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[14:58:43] adaedra: ruby-lang744: use Enumerable#select on your hash
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[14:58:49] adaedra: &ri Hash#select
[14:58:49] `derpy: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/Hash#select-instance_method
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[14:59:16] Ox0dea: adaedra: I believe you've misinterpreted the thing.
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[14:59:51] Ox0dea: I suspect it wants `foo << hash if hash['type'].something`.
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[15:00:06] adaedra: Ox0dea: possible
[15:00:37] jhass: ruby-lang744: gotta show some code
[15:00:37] loincloth: unclear if type is a list or single string
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[15:00:53] ruby-lang744: the type is a single string
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[15:01:05] loincloth: if whitelist.include? hash["type"] ?
[15:01:12] loincloth: or some such
[15:01:32] ruby-lang744: if "type" is "employee" or "provider" or "visitor" or "security" then put into array
[15:01:41] ruby-lang744: in very bad pseudocode...
[15:01:42] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Then put the whole Hash into the Array?
[15:01:54] ruby-lang744: then put the whole hash into the array, yes
[15:02:10] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Then yes, see my `foo <<` above, and loincloth's suggestion for the predicate.
[15:02:15] ruby-lang744: I already am putting things in the array with <<, I just need some condition around it
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[15:03:11] KinderSpiel: wasn???t getting any help from the rails room, maybe they thought I was trolling them, or my question was too basic
[15:03:18] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Then you can skip to the second part of my recommendation.
[15:03:25] KinderSpiel: jhass, wanna help me out with my gist here?
[15:03:47] KinderSpiel: or anyone, for that matter?
[15:03:57] KinderSpiel: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/628ad47c5db6056f6ddc
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[15:05:05] jhass: KinderSpiel: I don't see your question over at #RubyOnRails
[15:05:15] y_gick: has joined #ruby
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[15:05:26] Ox0dea: He hasn't spoken in there today.
[15:05:32] y_gick: https://developers.pinterest.com/docs/api/overview/
[15:05:50] y_gick: "We want to keep all feed experiences on Pinterest."
[15:05:56] jhass: KinderSpiel: NickServ (NickServ@services.): KinderSpiel has NOT COMPLETED registration verification
[15:06:09] havenwood: ?rails KinderSpiel
[15:06:09] ruboto: KinderSpiel, Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
[15:06:10] jhass: you're not authenticated yet
[15:06:20] y_gick: pinterest engineer don't love sharing
[15:06:44] Ox0dea: KinderSpiel: Thanks for the Schadenfreude. :P
[15:06:46] jhass: y_gick: that's pretty normal, at least FB & twitter have the same policy
[15:07:11] KinderSpiel: be back take care
[15:07:12] jhass: it's what you get for using a proprietary SN :P
[15:07:16] y_gick: jhass: twitter let you make nearly everything
[15:07:17] Ox0dea: KinderSpiel: Wait!
[15:07:18] KinderSpiel: has left #ruby: ()
[15:07:31] y_gick: jhass: ok for fb but not for twitter
[15:07:35] jhass: y_gick: they just don't enforce it yet, but I expect that to change pretty soon
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[15:08:11] shevy: dictators!
[15:08:18] KinderSpiel: say what Ox0dea?
[15:08:18] Ox0dea: Businesspeople!
[15:08:28] Ox0dea: KinderSpiel: You should learn how to be in multiple channels.
[15:08:34] ruby-lang744: so it's like: if JSON.parse(temp).["employee","provider","visitor","security"].include? hash["type"] ?
[15:08:46] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Whoa, no.
[15:09:04] Ox0dea: Sorry, I didn't mean for you to literally just mush mine and loincloth's advisements together like that.
[15:09:08] ruby-lang744: .... nobody ever managed to explain object oriented to me yet, so...
[15:09:15] shevy: yeah yeah
[15:09:20] KinderSpiel: Ox0dea yeeeah :)
[15:09:37] shevy: a "newbie" who comes up with this creative syntax ;)
[15:09:52] ruby-lang744: look, so far I've only programmed in Fortran, sorry...
[15:09:58] ruby-lang744: it just sucks with web queries
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[15:10:25] loincloth: @ruby-lang744 you are on the path
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[15:10:47] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: https://github.com/rabbiabram/awesome-fortran
[15:10:52] ruby-lang744: ACTION whistles "the long and winding road"
[15:11:00] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: I've brought you a delicious snack.
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[15:12:15] ruby-lang744: those are nice libraries, though entirely unneccessary... I could code a JSON parser in Fortran alright. It's the HTTP/HTTPS connectivity that I've never done
[15:12:40] ruby-lang744: and I read somewhere that ruby can be learned in 30 minutes. So far I'm clocking 31 hours...
[15:13:11] Ox0dea: I'll get the violin.
[15:13:13] adaedra: can != will
[15:13:39] adaedra: And I don't think a language can be learned in 30 minutes.
[15:13:44] adaedra: Except maybe brainfuck.
[15:13:54] Ox0dea: For some definition of "learn".
[15:14:06] loincloth: ruby-lang744: https://gist.github.com/greatseth/04306f819f71883cd546 i think what you last pasted should look more like that
[15:14:14] shevy: ruby-lang744 hey can I look at your github page?
[15:14:25] Ox0dea: loincloth: Where'd you catch it?
[15:14:29] loincloth: some assumptions are made of course... that 'temp' is some JSON as a string... that 'array' is an array :D
[15:14:31] ruby-lang744: well, should I make one, shevy?
[15:14:46] shevy: ruby-lang744 come on, I want to peek at your stuff
[15:14:47] loincloth: Ox0dea: where'd i catch whut
[15:14:59] ruby-lang744: now that's just 18+...
[15:15:00] Ox0dea: loincloth: That fish you gave ruby-lang744.
[15:15:10] loincloth: i see what you did there
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[15:15:20] teslax: What is an "assertion"?
[15:15:32] shevy: a gateway attack
[15:15:37] jhass: teslax: any context? minitest?
[15:15:39] Ox0dea: teslax: A testament to the truth or falsity of some statement.
[15:15:42] loincloth: i guess i decided a few lines showing some new stuff would be easier on everyone than a more abstract lesson
[15:15:49] teslax: jhass: Yeah in unit testing.
[15:15:57] loincloth: i'm all for teaching in the big picture, tho
[15:16:06] loincloth: but you can learn through snippets, too
[15:16:23] jhass: teslax: a test that some expression is (usually) truthy
[15:16:28] Ox0dea: loincloth: But then whence the time-honored adage in the first place?
[15:16:32] loincloth: i started by just saying 'whitelist' tho... which only implied some things, etc.
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[15:16:44] shmilan: teslax: check out the ruby doc for Test::Unit:Assertions
[15:16:55] shmilan: They're pretty easy to understand
[15:17:08] jhass: teslax: say you want to test that 1 + 2 is 2, assert 1+1 == 2, "1+1 wasn't 2"
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[15:17:34] Ox0dea: Needs more confusing.
[15:17:35] jhass: and then see ^ for less boilerplate and convenience wrappers around that
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[15:17:44] teslax: And I was wondering...I am just starting to learn about unit testing... how do the tests get executed automatically when a class inherits from Test::Unit::TestCase ?
[15:17:55] Ox0dea: teslax: at_exit.
[15:18:05] jhass: and def self.inherited I supposed
[15:18:19] jhass: in short Ruby provides some hooks that makes it possible
[15:19:01] teslax: where is test/unit normall stored? I want to look at the code
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[15:19:07] teslax: normally*
[15:20:06] ruby-lang744: c:\Users\<username>\Documents\<ruby script folder> is where it is stored
[15:20:23] jhass: teslax: run gem which test/unit on your shell
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[15:28:21] Silicium: i have a strange problem, i pass env vars vor heap configuration to passenger (successfully, i verified that) but ruby (2.0) still initially allocates 1500 heaps. i set the min_slots to 2000000, our app needs 1800000 objects, so it seems that ruby ignores the env vars. can i somehow verify the GC/Heap Settings?
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[15:29:26] Ox0dea: &ri GC.stat @Silicium
[15:29:26] `derpy: Silicium: http://www.rubydoc.info/stdlib/core/GC#stat-class_method
[15:29:31] Ox0dea: Should have everything you might need.
[15:30:16] Silicium: Ox0dea: stat does not show me the used configuration!
[15:30:59] Silicium: it does show me the current state but not the configuration :(
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[15:34:05] adaedra: Silicium: `derpy is only a bot.
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[15:34:21] teslax: what's the difference between a postive assertion and a negative assertion?
[15:34:21] Ox0dea: Prove it.
[15:34:22] Silicium: herp. derp.
[15:34:48] shevy: adaedra oh is this a factoid about `derpy?
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[15:35:15] jhass: teslax: a negative assertion is inverting the outcome of the condition prior evaluation, so assert_not foo == assert !foo
[15:35:16] adaedra: shevy: would that make me a bot ?
[15:35:54] shevy: adaedra I just want to trigger it!
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[15:35:59] ruboto: don't be mean to adaedra
[15:35:59] Silicium: Ox0dea: prove what?
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[15:36:53] Ox0dea: Prove that proving proves anything.
[15:37:09] shevy: Prove your existance!
[15:37:11] Silicium: i proved the prove
[15:37:26] Silicium: everything is probed until GC!
[15:37:39] Silicium: s/probed/proved
[15:37:50] shevy: GC is the big mighty cleaver
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[15:39:04] Silicium: however, since do i have to attach strace to the ruby process to identify the GC settings or is there a "normal" way? can i somehow read the actual used settings from my application?
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[15:40:38] apeiros: any troubles with osx 10.11 (el capitan) and rvm/brew?
[15:40:52] apeiros: ACTION googles :D
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[15:41:46] Ox0dea: TIL apeiros doesn't read HN.
[15:41:49] adaedra: apeiros: software can't write in /usr (except /usr/local) anymore.
[15:41:51] shevy: come to linux man
[15:41:59] apeiros: Ox0dea: indeed, I don't
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[15:42:11] todd: Brew didn't work when I first installed El Capitan (for things other than Ruby).
[15:42:17] apeiros: adaedra: yeah, I guess SIP will cause trouble with brew wanting to chown /usr/local
[15:42:21] todd: They didn't officially support it at the time.
[15:42:25] shevy: as far as I know it can be re-enabled
[15:42:33] adaedra: apeiros: iirc, this is not a problem.
[15:42:34] todd: Not sure if it's officially supported now, but it's working for what I need it for.
[15:43:13] ruby-lang744: how do I check if a key has a non-nil value in a hash? if hash["key"].nil?.! is the way to go?
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[15:44:00] apeiros: ruby-lang744: unless hash[key].nil?
[15:44:10] Ox0dea: apeiros: What's wrong with `.!`? :P
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[15:44:16] Ox0dea: >> false.!
[15:44:17] ruboto: Ox0dea # => true (https://eval.in/443066)
[15:44:27] todd: That's weird.
[15:44:35] todd: I would ding a code review for that.
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[15:45:00] apeiros: ruby-lang744: note that non-nil value for key and key not existing are two different things
[15:45:52] ruby-lang744: yes well, there are cases when the key doesn't exist, or cases when it exists with a nil value, also cases when it exists but has a zero value. I want to exclude all three
[15:46:06] ruby-lang744: that's three ifs in each other
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[15:46:45] todd: that doesn't sound like fun
[15:47:02] apeiros: that sounds like it could use some rethinking ;-)
[15:47:17] todd: if he has control over the data.. sometimes you don't
[15:47:21] ruby-lang744: why, doesn't Ruby short circuit eval?
[15:47:52] shevy: people, ruby-lang744 has no problem. he also never showed any real code either.
[15:48:14] ruby-lang744: shevy, why are you so desperate in seeing the actual code?
[15:48:26] shevy: ruby-lang744 cuz you are so fake
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[15:48:45] ruby-lang744: what does being fake mean here?
[15:48:48] shevy: ruby-lang744 show code
[15:49:04] apeiros: come on shevy, stay gentle
[15:49:06] Ox0dea: >> false && burn it down # ruby-lang744: Yes, it does.
[15:49:07] ruboto: Ox0dea # => /tmp/execpad-0edac8e4c72e/source-0edac8e4c72e:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting key ...check link for more (https://eval.in/443068)
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[15:49:26] Ox0dea: I don't see why that shouldn't've worked.
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[15:49:32] Ox0dea: apeiros: Act now!
[15:49:37] HotGirl89: i have a very strange problem, withruby
[15:49:50] shevy: wait... perhaps code will be shown
[15:50:02] Ox0dea: apeiros: A wild troll has appeared.
[15:50:04] todd: omg.. I can't
[15:50:06] HotGirl89: can i somehow see the actual used heap/gc settings?
[15:50:19] Ox0dea: Poor thing.
[15:50:27] shevy: what is the "strange problem"?
[15:50:36] HotGirl89: stranger problem
[15:50:44] shevy: yeah, it's very strange
[15:50:57] todd: HotGirl89: ##java :D
[15:51:10] Ox0dea: HotGirl89 is Silicium from earlier attempting to employ the (regrettably effective) "girls get help" strategy.
[15:51:17] HotGirl89: Todd: i can tell you how to do in java, but not in ruby!
[15:51:28] todd: I made that assumption thus my reverse troll.
[15:51:43] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Ruby does short-circuit, but conditional trees are unpleasant.
[15:51:44] apeiros: Ox0dea: good to know. but not actually against any rules.
[15:51:45] HotGirl89: Ox0dea: jesus, how did you noticed that!
[15:51:51] shevy: Ox0dea has an advanced inbuilt troll detector... I would not have figured out that it was Silicium
[15:52:05] apeiros: unless silicium was trolling
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[15:52:25] shevy: you have too much faith in the good of humanity apeiros!
[15:52:32] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: In this particular case, it's much more sensibe to filter on what you want than what you don't.
[15:52:43] Ox0dea: `if hash["type"].present?`, perhaps.
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[15:53:07] apeiros: shevy: well, if silicium didn't get help but hotgirl89 does, then it's not them being wrong but the people who didn't help before
[15:53:13] ruby-lang744: Ox0dea, I think they aren't that bad. I can generally sight-read them to 3 levels' depth or so. Let's see this present?
[15:53:24] Ox0dea: It's from ActiveSupport.
[15:53:54] Ox0dea: It considers the empty string to be "falsy", which I assume is your zero value in this case.
[15:54:08] shevy: apeiros yeah, I did not know that HotGirl89 was Silicium before though :)
[15:54:31] todd: ruby-lang744: http://i.stack.imgur.com/oXuhJ.png
[15:55:10] ruby-lang744: <>.rb:44:in `block in <main>': undefined method `present?' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
[15:55:27] havenwood: ruby-lang744: That's Rails.
[15:55:32] Ox0dea: ActiveSupport.
[15:55:49] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: You put angle brackets in your file names?
[15:56:04] ruby-lang744: Ox0dea, no, just blanked it out
[15:56:27] Ox0dea: Must be FBI.
[15:56:33] havenwood: ruby-lang744: require 'active_support/core_ext/object/blank'
[15:56:37] adaedra: Ox0dea: NSA.
[15:56:47] todd: Even the NSA wouldn't use Fortran.
[15:56:48] Ox0dea: Otherwise unnamed TLA.
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[15:56:58] Ox0dea: I bet the NSA does use Fortran.
[15:57:17] todd: Possibly for something.
[15:57:29] Ox0dea: For all that HPC they're doing, I'd imagine.
[15:57:30] ruby-lang744: .... fiiiiine
[15:57:37] Ox0dea: He's gonna post code.
[15:57:40] ruby-lang744: HPC is fine for Fortran tho
[15:57:51] Ox0dea: What do you mean, "fine"?
[15:57:54] adaedra: Fortran Meade?
[15:58:01] ruby-lang744: C:/Ruby22-x64/lib/ruby/2.2.0/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:54:in `require' : cannot load such file -- active_support/core_ext/object/blank (LoadError) from C:/Ruby22-x64/lib/ruby/2.2.0/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:54 :in `require' from C:/Users/Peti/Documents/salvage seek/salvage seek.rb:6:in `<main>'
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[15:58:28] shevy: he did not show code!
[15:58:31] ruby-lang744: Ox0dea, that it scales relatively well for a large number of cores
[15:58:42] Ox0dea: "Relatively well"?
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[15:58:56] ruby-lang744: relatively well
[15:58:58] todd: relative to?
[15:59:10] Ox0dea: I think it's arguably the go-to language for HPC.
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[15:59:39] Ox0dea: They still use LAPACK to rank the TOP500, no?
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[15:59:57] todd: Ox0dea: I think even in that area it depends on what you're referring to?
[16:00:05] ruby-lang744: well, let's see. Computational fluid dynamics routines, meteorology, astronomy etc... most libraries are still there.
[16:00:26] ruby-lang744: and they've been written in... hell, probably in the 70's
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[16:00:42] Ox0dea: This guy knows his shit.
[16:00:46] diegoviola: has joined #ruby
[16:00:58] ruby-lang744: nevertheless, they didn't do nothing with internets in Fortran
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[16:01:33] todd: I worked at a warehouse in college that was managed with cobol. Worked great until the one guy who wrote it retired. ;)
[16:01:51] shevy: tiobe says fortran is ranked 22 - http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
[16:01:55] ruby-lang744: I worked as a cobol programmer for half a year, that was actually very fun
[16:02:05] centrx: TIOBE is junk
[16:02:07] havenwood: shevy: better to check the chicken bones
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[16:02:55] todd: I moved to a devops roll right before we switched our CMS to Java. Sad days those. :(
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[16:03:35] todd: Told my boss I "refuse to learn anything unnecessary for my job assignment" in relation to Java and he didn't disagree.
[16:03:48] ruby-lang744: and if you were so hungry for code, shevy, then: if whitelist.include? hash["type"] # puts hash if hash["suffix_item_id"].present? puts hash if hash["suffix_item_id"]>0 item_data << hash puts hash end end elsif ["employee"].include? hash["type"] item_data << hash puts hash end
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[16:03:58] havenwood: ?gist ruby-lang744
[16:03:58] ruboto: ruby-lang744, https://gist.github.com - Multiple files, syntax highlighting, even automatically with matching filenames, can be edited
[16:04:25] Ox0dea: I like the part where #include? was called on a single-element Array.
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[16:04:54] ruby-lang744: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1f4afd388017c9b1ab39
[16:05:18] Ox0dea: Yep, still my favorite part.
[16:05:22] ruby-lang744: I don't, but I don't know anything about object oriented programming, I assumed that was the way
[16:05:37] shevy: ruby-lang744 that is incomplete
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[16:05:50] ruby-lang744: if it works for a list of more than one member, it should work with a list with a single member too
[16:05:58] Ox0dea: Yes, but it looks dumb.
[16:06:16] ruby-lang744: shevy, might I remind you that you asked for "code", not "all of the friggin' code"?
[16:06:25] ruby-lang744: so now, stuff it
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[16:06:30] shevy: ruby-lang744 you are just trolling man
[16:06:36] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: We ask for code in the interests of better assisting you, prick.
[16:06:50] ruby-lang744: fiiine, you want the whole code?
[16:06:59] shevy: ruby-lang744 nobody wants your code :)
[16:07:11] eam: ladies and gentlemen
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[16:07:14] eam: good evening
[16:07:19] todd: That escalated quickly.
[16:07:20] ruboto: eam, it's morning, see http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
[16:07:33] Ox0dea: eam is in ~UGT.
[16:07:37] shevy: it's evening here!
[16:07:37] eam: jhass: it's always evening if you're a classy individual like me
[16:07:44] shevy: I am surprised it's evening at eam as well
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[16:07:59] eam: 9:07am and I'm wearing a tux
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[16:08:32] shevy: a sombrero?
[16:08:40] eam: no, I'm told sombreros are racist
[16:08:43] jhass: ruby-lang744: where does hash come from? probably should be a select instead of an each
[16:08:44] Ox0dea: A Linux mascot?
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[16:09:27] ruby-lang744: hash is pulled from a server with a https request, and is in JSOB format
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[16:09:51] todd: ruby-lang744: select is awesome for filtering out only what you want
[16:10:04] todd: ruby-lang744: also see reject
[16:10:15] ruby-lang744: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/712e64dfe940d7ab7b8d if to check. Much of the program won't be relevant, which is why I've snipped it out, but then I was called a prick for that
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[16:11:31] todd: You're not handling HTTP exceptions.
[16:11:36] jhass: okay, gotta start with reformatting it
[16:11:49] ruby-lang744: Todd, nope, I'm not
[16:12:12] ruby-lang744: what happens if an http exception is thrown in such a code? Doesn't the code just stop?
[16:13:13] todd: ruby-lang744: the body message would throw an exception.. so, yeah
[16:13:17] jhass: I don't think http throws any exception beyond the IO ones?
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[16:13:48] todd: body would throw an exception for non-200 responses
[16:13:59] ruby-lang744: well, that's just fine then
[16:13:59] todd: Net::HTTP doesn't follow redirects by default
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[16:14:13] ruby-lang744: and I need no redirects either
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[16:16:05] ruby-lang744: now I was told to load this active-support thing, but the program crashes on it with LoadError... another package to install, I take?
[16:16:38] todd: gem install would install all dependencies required in the active_support gemspec
[16:16:49] teslax: When running the following test: "ruby -I path/to/app/lib path/to/app/test/test_roman.rb" what does the "-I" option do? http://ctrlv.it/id/2404/3838671279
[16:17:01] Ox0dea: teslax: It adds that directory to the load path.
[16:17:06] todd: so.. you should never have to install any other gem unless the original gem's gemspec has a bug in it
[16:17:28] teslax: 0x0dea: It adds it inside test_roman.rb ?
[16:17:30] todd: native gems are special cases.. they are compiled and require libs
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[16:17:42] todd: I need a smoke. brb
[16:17:55] Ox0dea: teslax: The -I flag is supposed to be given a directory argument, not a file.
[16:18:30] odigity: How can I print a list of all packages that have been 'require'-ed?
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[16:19:14] Ox0dea: odigity: $LOADED_FEATURES should do.
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[16:20:06] teslax: 0x0dea: So it adds the lib directory to the load path so that it can be accessed from within test_roman.rb?
[16:20:21] odigity: Ox0dea, wow, that's a lot of output. :) Thanks!
[16:20:23] Ox0dea: teslax: Oh, sorry; I did misread your command line there.
[16:21:12] Ox0dea: teslax: The load path is the set of directories Ruby looks for 'foo' in when you require 'foo'.
[16:22:45] teslax: 0x0dea: So if I have a ruby script that requires 'foo.rb' which is inside path/app/, I can just run it using ruby -I path/app script.rb ? Correct?
[16:22:52] Ox0dea: odigity: Aye, it's quite a bit, and it's not all gems; you'll have to pare it down considerably.
[16:23:18] odigity: Ox0dea, that's ok, I got what I needed from it.
[16:23:23] ruby-lang744: well, it doesn't seem to work with .present? at the moment....
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[16:23:29] Ox0dea: teslax: No, the command line doesn't interact with the load path.
[16:24:05] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: #present? is overkill for this particular case; apologies for having you chase that goose.
[16:24:35] ruby-lang744: naw, I just want it to finally work (somehow.)
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[16:24:59] Ox0dea: teslax: Gah, sorry, I keep misreading you; yes, I think you've grokked the thing.
[16:25:51] teslax: 0x0dea: No problem!
[16:25:53] Ox0dea: teslax: For what it's worth, it's usually better to append to the load path directly from within Ruby.
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[16:26:10] jhass: ruby-lang744: http://paste.mrzyx.de/pvs0ifbwv cleaned it somewhat up
[16:26:31] Ox0dea: It's just a plain-ol' Array into which you can shovel the additional directories you want searched.
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[16:28:29] ruby-lang744: jhass, thanks, I'll check in a moment
[16:29:05] Ox0dea: jhass: L32-34 -> `items << item if item["suffix_item_id"].to_i > 0`.
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[16:30:23] jhass: Ox0dea: don't like relying on NilClass#to_i too much
[16:30:35] Ox0dea: Might change someday.
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[16:30:55] jhass: Crystal just dropped it thankfully
[16:31:06] ruby-lang744: X| I... this is unreadable
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[16:31:23] ruby-lang744: can't figure anymore what any single line in the evaluation does
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[16:31:50] jhass: 80% is just renaming to proper names and adding some whitespace
[16:32:22] ruby-lang744: you put weird things like #{} in there though
[16:32:31] ruby-lang744: have no clue what the heck that is
[16:32:54] jhass: >> "we prefer string #{"interpolation"} over string " + "concatenation"
[16:32:56] ruboto: jhass # => "we prefer string interpolation over string concatenation" (https://eval.in/443102)
[16:33:13] ruby-lang744: what is an interpolation?
[16:33:21] jhass: "#{foo} this is"
[16:33:38] jhass: you can put any ruby code inside #{} inside a string
[16:33:54] jhass: practically
[16:33:59] Ox0dea: >> "#{def foo; 42; end} #{foo}"
[16:34:00] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "foo 42" (https://eval.in/443103)
[16:34:21] jhass: Ruby then calls to_s on the result for you and sticks that into the string
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[16:34:36] jhass: >> "1 + 1 = #{1+1}"
[16:34:37] ruboto: jhass # => "1 + 1 = 2" (https://eval.in/443104)
[16:34:39] ruby-lang744: dunno, to_s is more readable to me
[16:34:46] ruby-lang744: it shows "to string"
[16:34:49] jhass: that'll change soon
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[16:34:56] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Learn to see #{} as "to string".
[16:35:19] jhass: using #{} over + also allocates less strings
[16:35:37] Ox0dea: > I can generally sight-read [nested conditionals] to 3 levels' depth or so.
[16:36:04] Ox0dea: > But this string interpolation business is just too much.
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[16:36:48] ruby-lang744: yep. Such as x.LT.7.OR.(x.GE.91.AND.(x.LT.100.OR.x.EQ.100))) etc
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[16:37:30] ruby-lang744: I can see immediately what values for x are accepted there
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[16:38:14] Ox0dea: I don't know Fortran, but I don't think D is an acceptable value for x there.
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[16:38:46] ruby-lang744: no, it wouldn't be
[16:38:59] Ox0dea: How come?
[16:39:30] ruby-lang744: since you define variables at the beginning of the program
[16:39:43] ruby-lang744: it would not accept D into a real or integer
[16:40:08] ruby-lang744: in this comparison above, x is required to be an integer, it wouldn't work with reals either
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[16:40:40] Ox0dea: > [Fortran 2015] is intended to be a minor revision and is planned for release in mid-2018.
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[16:40:58] Ox0dea: And here I thought numerics were the language's strong suit.
[16:41:10] Ox0dea: >> 2015 == 2018
[16:41:11] ruboto: Ox0dea # => false (https://eval.in/443105)
[16:41:54] ruby-lang744: but internet access isn't
[16:42:08] Ox0dea: It's not like you *can't* hit the network from Fortran.
[16:42:21] ruby-lang744: perhaps... let's see, can you pass parameters to a ruby in command line?
[16:42:32] ruby-lang744: to a ruby program*
[16:42:44] Ox0dea: I have no idea.
[16:42:56] jhass: this sounds like they plan to reimplement curl in Ruby
[16:43:56] ruby-lang744: well, if I had any single way to fetch an arbitrary HTTPS page, and get the response back without any further frills, I could of course program the rest in Fortran
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[16:45:46] ruby-lang744: but I still don't know about the overhead that it'd mean for the reason that you need to start up the external program likely hundreds of thousands of times
[16:46:10] ruby-lang744: which is why I went for a language that can fetch HTTPS on its own, and at the same time (supposedly) quick to learn
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[16:48:05] Ox0dea: #! is the only unary operator that can be invoked like a regular method; why is that?
[16:49:17] ruby-lang744: maybe because people didn't think it safe to include anything more complicated
[16:49:22] adaedra: You mean like the - in `-n`?
[16:49:53] ruboto: adaedra # => -3 (https://eval.in/443106)
[16:49:58] Ox0dea: Oh, right.
[16:49:59] ruby-lang744: SIN() is a unary operator. I don't know what a method means, though.
[16:50:22] Ox0dea: It's just a syntactic constraint, then.
[16:50:39] ruby-lang744: well, what is a method, anyhow?
[16:50:57] adaedra: that's basics
[16:51:09] ruby-lang744: you mean it's a subroutine?
[16:51:17] workmad3: Ox0dea: is it possible that ! is the only unary operator where the method isn't suffixed with @ ?
[16:51:28] Ox0dea: ruby-lang744: Methods are "subroutines" applied to specific objects, more or less.
[16:51:37] Ox0dea: workmad3: ~ isn't either.
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[16:51:49] Ox0dea: But it can't be invoked without parentheses like #! can.
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[16:52:06] adaedra: workmad3: well, the only one where there's no ambiguity with the binary operator
[16:52:17] Ox0dea: Yeah, that seems right.
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[16:52:48] workmad3: it'll be something like that
[16:53:16] ruby-lang744: well, in fortran it's called with CALL SUBROUTINE(A,B,C....). And the subroutine has its own variable declarations, so you can call the incoming values C, B and A if you wish, it doesn't quite matter for the caller program
[16:53:31] Ox0dea: adaedra: Wait, what's binary ~?
[16:53:38] workmad3: I think ! was quite a recent addition to the available operator overrides too... so it could be that the parsing around it is cleaner and more 'correct'
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[16:54:42] adaedra: wow that's weird
[16:55:19] adaedra: well, seems it doesn't work with ~
[16:56:12] adaedra: the exception to confirm the rule?
[16:56:33] ruby-lang744: and Ox0dea, what is an object? I mean, I can apply a subroutine to variables and/or constants. Is an object meaning "variable or constant"?
[16:56:44] Ox0dea: >> def self.~ x; 42; end; [~(10), self.~(10)] # adaedra
[16:56:45] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [-11, 42] (https://eval.in/443109)
[16:56:58] adaedra: yeah, I saw that
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[16:58:08] Ox0dea: https://eval.in/443110
[16:58:10] adaedra: Now is time to `train << self`
[16:58:15] Ox0dea: There's the really weird one.
[16:58:23] Ox0dea: #! is like some kind of "unibinary" operator.
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[16:59:41] ruby-lang744: oh well... maybe later. Thank you for the source, I'll look into it and see if I can understand it.
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[17:00:27] Ox0dea: Where do you even add the argument for the second case?
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[17:20:41] rubybeginner: what is aptana studio for?
[17:21:20] rubybeginner: is it like sublime text or smthn?
[17:22:18] dfockler: rubybeginner: it's an IDE like Eclipse but for web stuff
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[17:23:39] JDiPierro: WebStorm's better
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[17:24:23] workmad3: dfockler: heh :) 'like eclipse'... aptana *is* eclipse, but with some custom plugins aimed @ rails web dev
[17:24:28] JDiPierro: s/WebStorm/RubyMine/
[17:24:58] dfockler: workmad3: oh haha, the last time I used Aptana it was an eclipse plugin :P, but their website seemed to state otherwise
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[17:25:17] workmad3: and yes, I'd recommend JetBrain's IDEA based IDEs over eclipse from past history... but I stopped using either quite a while ago :)
[17:25:26] KinderSpiel: can some mod see what???s wrong with my account?
[17:25:48] KinderSpiel: I can???t write on #RubyOnRails
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[17:29:11] mwlang: I don???t know about y???all but my TextMate 2.x toggle_ruby_hash_syntax to convert 1.8 to 2.x doesn???t work. I hacked it just now with this: https://gist.github.com/mwlang/50ef29f004a25c6d18eb
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[17:34:27] Ox0dea: mwlang: You should be able to ignore the value?
[17:35:08] mwlang: Ox0dea: what do you mean by ignore it? If the string doesn???t match, it???s simply returned.
[17:36:46] Ox0dea: mwlang: Sure, but why not just gsub(/:(\w+)=>/, '\1:') or some such?
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[17:37:48] mwlang: Ox0dea: Oh, that???s not a bad idea at all. Just didn???t think to gsub it.
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[17:38:12] mwlang: that would bring benefit of replacing all matches in a line if there happens to be more than one.
[17:38:13] Ox0dea: That the `=>` token only ever occurs in Hashes makes the conversion much easier than it might otherwise have been.
[17:38:30] Ox0dea: mwlang: The much greater benefit is that you get to completely ignore values, which can be arbitrarily complex.
[17:38:46] mwlang: Ox0dea: I like it???making the change now.
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[17:40:16] KinderSpiel: can anyone see whats wrong with my account, I can???t send messages to #RubyOnRails
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[17:41:04] apeiros: KinderSpiel: you're probably not registered or not identified
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[17:45:55] KinderSpiel: apeiros ???/msg NickServ IDENTIFY help??? returns ???You are already logged in as KinderSpiel.???
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[17:47:50] mwlang: Ox0dea: https://gist.github.com/mwlang/50ef29f004a25c6d18eb
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[17:48:15] Ox0dea: mwlang: \S == [^\s]
[17:48:37] mwlang: learn something new every day...
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[17:50:20] Ox0dea: The second capture is superfluous, but everything else looks about right.
[17:50:38] Ox0dea: thatwaseasy.bmp
[17:51:34] Ox0dea: >> :'but what about these?' # mwlang
[17:51:35] ruboto: Ox0dea # => :"but what about these?" (https://eval.in/443140)
[17:51:44] mwlang: yeah, right you are???might as well take it all the way!
[17:52:22] Ox0dea: mwlang: Parsing Ruby strings requires a Ruby parser. :P
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[17:53:17] mwlang: Ox0dea: that example worked just fine for me.
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[17:53:36] Ox0dea: Aye, it'll do for simple Hashes, which are the only kind that ought to exist.
[17:53:43] mwlang: I???m not really interested in parsing Ruby???just highlight a block of code that has my 1.8 styled hashes and hit ^=
[17:54:31] Ox0dea: Don't wanna `sed -i *.rb`, you say?
[17:54:38] mwlang: yeah, I???m generally not going to be mucking with complex ones, or if I do, it???s simple enough highlighting simple portions at a time.
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[17:55:00] mwlang: Ox0dea: :-S That way lies insanity
[17:55:46] Ox0dea: `-i` takes a backup extension, for what that's worth.
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[18:00:37] rindolf: Coraline: how are you?
[18:00:53] Coraline: Hanging in there.
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[18:01:37] mwlang: Ox0dea: hmmm..yeah, I just don???t like to change tons of files trivially, esp. those that have no test coverage.
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[18:01:51] Ox0dea: mwlang: Makes perfect sense.
[18:02:04] mwlang: I write the tests, pass ???em, then refactor and get back to green.
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[18:04:56] mwlang: Had to add one more piece to that regexp..sometimes the => is jammed against the identifier???only other scenario is ???one??? => and ???two??? => but I don???t generally symbolize and switch these to 1.9 syntax, so YAGNI scenario there.
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[18:05:27] mwlang: so this is the final regexp: str.gsub /\:(\S|[^\=]+)d(\s*?\=\>\s?)/, '\1: '
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[18:07:19] rindolf: mwlang: why do you use \= instead of =?
[18:08:38] mwlang: just didn???t look it up to see if = has meaning in regexps???if I???m ever not sure I prefix with \ and then later, remove the \ once I have a regexp working???forgot to in this case.
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[18:09:57] Ox0dea: mwlang: \w > \S|[^\=]
[18:10:10] Ox0dea: For this particular purpose.
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[18:10:53] mwlang: Ox0dea: does \w include digits dashes, underscores, periods?
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[18:12:26] Ox0dea: >> 128.times.map(&:chr).grep(/\w/).join # mwlang
[18:12:27] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" (https://eval.in/443148)
[18:12:39] autojack: I've used rbenv for years, but on one of my systems it seems to be in a broken state, but I can't figure out why or how to fix it. my path is correct, I'm definitely hitting the rbenv shims, but when I try to 'gem install' something I get 'You don't have write permissions into the /usr/local directory.'
[18:12:41] Ox0dea: And hey, those are almost all of the valid identifier characters.
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[18:12:52] autojack: it should be installing the gems under the .rbenv directory though.
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[18:13:06] Ox0dea: autojack: Might be El Capitan?
[18:13:17] autojack: Ox0dea: no, this is Ubuntu.
[18:13:17] teslax: What's the benefit of using rspec over just say, Test::Unit ?
[18:13:31] Ox0dea: teslax: It's largely a personal thing.
[18:13:43] Antiarc: I like the syntax better, personally
[18:13:59] autojack: *oh* I might know what's up.
[18:14:22] autojack: yep. this system has a .gemrc.
[18:14:38] autojack: which is overriding gem_home.
[18:15:05] teslax: I don't know rspec. Should I learn it or can I just go by with using Test::Unit?
[18:15:06] autojack: that was it. damn.
[18:15:59] mwlang: teslax: rspec uses BDD???s vocabulary whereas Test::Unit uses TDD???s vocabulary and I do like rspec???s matchers a lot more, esp. when used with rspec-its. I also like the let and subject constructs rspec offers.
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[18:16:45] teslax: mwlang: What's used with Rails?
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[18:17:55] mwlang: teslax: I actually don???t know any more. First thing I always do is set up rspec-rails on the project and delete the test folder. Somebody else here knows definitively.
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[18:20:32] rgb-one: Ox0dea: Hey, I managed to construct a program from the all I learned from you sensei
[18:20:32] teslax: has left #ruby: ()
[18:20:54] rgb-one: https://gist.github.com/rgb-one/66c6b11f2b8674902bae
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[18:25:30] glider: What testing framework is used with Rails
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[18:25:59] havenwood: glider: Minitest ships with Ruby and is the Rails default.
[18:26:16] glider: havenwood: Alright.
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[18:27:21] havenwood: glider: The Rails channel is #RubyOnRails, you just have to register to talk.
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[18:48:39] brazenbraden: i am having major difficulties trying to bundle install. Getting errors "Gem::Ext::BuildError: ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension." | https://gist.github.com/brazenbraden/31371b65d535b546e023 . what am I missing?
[18:48:39] Ox0dea: rgb-one: Hey! I'm glad to see the program came to fruition.
[18:48:46] Ox0dea: rgb-one: Some of this code is very sexy. :P
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[18:49:34] Ox0dea: BrazenBraden: You're missing GMP, the multiple precision library Ruby uses for Bignum support and whatnot.
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[18:49:47] havenwood: BrazenBraden: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgmp
[18:50:17] brazenbraden: im on Ubuntu 14.04 and have all the libraries I can think of
[18:50:26] havenwood: BrazenBraden: The TravisCI folk messed up the precompiled build of Ruby 2.2.3 on Ubuntu.
[18:50:27] brazenbraden: what should i try apt install?
[18:50:36] brazenbraden: ahh fak really?
[18:50:37] Ox0dea: BrazenBraden: libgmp-dev.
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[18:50:59] brazenbraden: havenwood, so scrap it and back to 2.2.2 then?
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[18:51:04] havenwood: BrazenBraden: ^ just install the dep or install with: --disable-binary
[18:51:13] havenwood: BrazenBraden: sudo apt-get install libgmp-dev
[18:51:54] TheNet: Is there anything wrong with assigning a logger to a global variable?
[18:51:57] brazenbraden: havenwood, --disable-binary via rvm?
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[18:52:29] havenwood: BrazenBraden: Yeah, that'd bypass the TravisCI binary and hence the errant link. They just build 2.2.3 dynamically linked to libgmp.
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[18:53:06] havenwood: I've mentioned in the Travis channel but they're not very present on IRC.
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[18:53:10] brazenbraden: havenwood, will give that a go. will let you know. thanks
[18:53:17] havenwood: BrazenBraden: Related: https://github.com/rvm/rvm/issues/3509
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[18:54:49] brazenbraden: havenwood, i have been googling for hours and never came across this github issue. installing without binaries now
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[18:55:32] Rohanezio: hey, https://gist.github.com/rohanezio/166b69976dfcc0cc4d95 this gist is my code, but it's giving me a 1 for 0 error
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[18:56:37] havenwood: BrazenBraden: That should do the trick. If you've got the time you might consider reporting to Travis's githubs if it is't already. I've been meaning to but haven't had a chance (waaaay to much to do, gah!).
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[18:58:12] brazenbraden: havenwood, havent done such things before lol
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[18:58:59] brazenbraden: havenwood, you are my hero
[18:59:02] havenwood: BrazenBraden: It'd just be searching through issues here and starting a new one if one doesn't exist: https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues
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[19:01:10] brazenbraden: havenwood, right
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[19:06:01] shevy: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/ChangeLog#L3
[19:06:10] shevy: what does this mean? "proc.c (proc_mark): block.ep of Proc from Symbol is now NULL."
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[19:10:57] rgb-one: Ox0dea: :)
[19:11:00] Ox0dea: shevy: `ep` is "environment pointer" there, for starters.
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[19:11:24] Ox0dea: The Patch Monster has been optimizing Symbol#to_proc as of late.
[19:12:02] Ox0dea: rgb-one: I have a few minor nitpicks if you'd like them.
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[19:13:27] rgb-one: Ox0dea: I would
[19:13:34] drbrain: I imagine the "environment pointer" ordinarily points to the closure if you created a do/end block
[19:13:42] Ox0dea: That sounds right.
[19:13:51] drbrain: a proc created from a symbol doesn't need an environment pointer, though
[19:13:55] man_on_couch: is there documentation for the Object class' private methods? I can't find any on Omniref or RubyDoc, but I'm trying to learn about the methods in Object.new.private_methods
[19:14:03] shevy: Ox0dea lol at "Patch Monster"
[19:14:26] drbrain: since it can't pull any information from the closure
[19:14:31] drbrain: man_on_couch: most of them come from Kernel
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[19:14:58] Ox0dea: shevy: I believe that's Nakada-san's official title.
[19:16:50] havenwood: >> Object.new.private_methods.map { |meth| method(meth).owner }.group_by(&:itself).map { |obj, a| [obj, a.size] }.to_h
[19:16:51] ruboto: havenwood # => {Kernel=>67, BasicObject=>5} (https://eval.in/443175)
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[19:19:38] drbrain: thanks havenwood
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[19:25:14] brazenbraden: havenwood, if you feel like debunking one more mystery, perhaps you could help me figure out why I get the error "libruby.so.2.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" | https://gist.github.com/brazenbraden/b4ef6839ac81fdd42a4a
[19:26:56] havenwood: drbrain: :D
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[19:27:25] havenwood: BrazenBraden: Is MySQL installed?
[19:28:27] Ox0dea: rgb-one: https://git.io/vcEhI
[19:28:30] brazenbraden: havenwood, yes (well, i should update that gist.. i switched to postgres and do have libpq-dev added in the dockerfile).. if i remove pg / mysql, it fails with the same error on another gem (saw redcarpet fail too)
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[19:28:54] Ox0dea: rgb-one: My quibbles were mostly stylistic, but #to_acronym was made much cleaner, and your exit codes were the wrong way round.
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[19:29:41] shevy: you and your nibbles
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[19:30:00] Ox0dea: Printing usage and version strings aren't abnormal exit conditions.
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[19:30:28] Ox0dea: rgb-one: I'm curious how you intended to work MD5 into this.
[19:30:35] brazenbraden: havenwood, always libruby.so
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[19:31:00] banister: wassup peeps
[19:31:06] havenwood: banister: hallooo
[19:31:07] Ox0dea: rgb-one: Uh-oh! It's just dawned on me: this is for generating "secure" passwords, isn't it?
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[19:33:03] Ox0dea: havenwood: There's a vaguely unpleasant aroma coming from `map + group_by(&:itself)`.
[19:33:19] shevy: you can smell code?!?!
[19:33:29] Ox0dea: Can't everybody?
[19:33:40] rgb-one: Ox0dea: To provide a MD5 checksum of each of the passwords generated.
[19:33:55] havenwood: Ox0dea: Coding while juggling makes me sweaty, which probably increases smell.
[19:34:41] Ox0dea: rgb-one: Fair enough, but do heed xkcd #936: https://xkcd.com/936/
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[19:38:11] rgb-one: Ox0dea: Interesting
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[19:40:38] mbff: Why is bundler not finding vendor/bundle ??? https://gist.github.com/marshallford/32a1745dd426d94695fb
[19:40:55] mbff: You can clearly see the mina command exists.
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[19:42:02] adaedra: mbff: Are you gems installed with bundle install --path vendor/bundle?
[19:42:37] Ox0dea: A real-live person from Fargo?!
[19:42:43] mwlang: speaking of xkcd #936 ??? I hate websites that make me make up complicated passcodes that have to include capitalization, at least one number, at least one symbol, etc. and worse, limit the length to anything less than 10 ??? keeps one from using a nice long passphrase.
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[19:43:51] mbff: adaedra, no bundle --deployment ... i am using the mina bundler task if that helps
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[19:44:06] havenwood: mbff: Check what if any Bundler config is set?: bundle config
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[19:44:11] shevy: mwlang hah - I failed with the latest fedora installation because of password
[19:44:20] adaedra: mbff: so maybe bundler is not aware of your additional directory.
[19:44:25] Ox0dea: mwlang: And is indicative of a service which almost certainly stores passwords in the clear.
[19:44:52] mbff: does it matter where I run the bundle config from?
[19:44:56] mwlang: Ox0dea: well, latest one was MailChimp the other day.
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[19:45:28] mwlang: I didn???t bother with a passphrase because it???s password requirements were so strict. So now that one???s written down somewhere because I surely cannot memorize it.
[19:45:49] shevy: the real purpose has been achieved
[19:46:37] mbff: I updated the gist with the bundle config output https://gist.github.com/marshallford/32a1745dd426d94695fb
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[19:56:35] havenwood: mbff: Looks like the defaults I'd expect from: https://github.com/mina-deploy/mina/blob/master/lib/mina/bundler.rb#L30
[19:56:35] Rohanezio: would someone mind looking at this gist? the code works but it's the columns don't appear side by side
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[19:57:42] Rohanezio: https://gist.github.com/rohanezio/166b69976dfcc0cc4d95
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[19:59:51] mbff: havenwood, so why does bundle exec mina unicorn:restart not work? Man this is frustrating
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[20:05:41] brazenbraden: im at a loss. anyone know why Im stuck with the error "libruby.so.2.2: cannot open shared object file"? https://gist.github.com/brazenbraden/b4ef6839ac81fdd42a4a
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[20:06:09] brazenbraden: I have verified that the files which it "cannot find" do indeed exist. i know this involves a docker container but it seems to be a ruby issue...?
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[20:09:24] havenwood: BrazenBraden: Try: libmysql-dev
[20:09:25] eam: BrazenBraden: the shared objects need to be in the path used by the linker
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[20:10:10] brazenbraden: havenwood, updated the gist to reflect current config. no mysql, just postgres, and I have libpq-dev included in build
[20:10:29] eam: BrazenBraden: dpkg -L libpq, where are the shared objects? Are they in /usr/lib?
[20:10:37] eam: the package may have put them elsewhere
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[20:10:51] havenwood: BrazenBraden: Ah, I was still looking at the old gist. I see.
[20:10:53] brazenbraden: eam, i cannot check as I cannot start the container to see
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[20:11:16] brazenbraden: eam, the path it specifies in the error is the correct path though
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[20:13:33] brazenbraden: as mentioned earlier, if i remove the pg gem, it fails with basically the same error on a different gem
[20:13:41] eam: it doesn't specify a path
[20:13:50] eam: BrazenBraden: the way the linker works is kind of like how the shell works
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[20:14:11] eam: you run `foo` and it searches through every directory in $PATH until it fines "foo" in one of them, right?
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[20:14:27] eam: same thing with ld.so - there's a search path, and it's looking for "libruby.so.2.2" and it can't find it
[20:14:28] brazenbraden: eam, so what is "No such file or directory - /app/vendor/bundle/ruby/2.2.0/gems/pg-0.18.3/lib/pg_ext.so" ?
[20:14:49] eam: right, that's a little confusing. "/app/vendor/bundle/ruby/2.2.0/gems/pg-0.18.3/lib/pg_ext.so" exists, but the shared object dependencies it has do not
[20:15:03] eam: the error in this case is "no such file or directory" but it's not talking about that file
[20:15:15] eam: it's talking about the dependencies of that file, which might be anywhere in the linker paths
[20:15:36] eam: blame unix for having a confusing standard error on this :)
[20:15:51] brazenbraden: oh i have been cursing unix for 2 days now :P
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[20:16:01] eam: BrazenBraden: so, double check your stuff to make sure it's putting "libruby.so.2.2" into, say, /usr/lib or similar
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[20:16:26] brazenbraden: i'll see if i can get that info out of the container by jimmying it. one sec
[20:16:29] eam: grab an ubuntu system that works and find it, and find out the package that owns it
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[20:17:03] brazenbraden: well, im on ubuntu so that shouldnt be too much of a problem
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[20:17:25] eam: I have seen people go crazy over this error before, because it also happens for executables
[20:17:38] eam: so you can ls -l /bin/foo and it's there, and it's +x, but you run it and "no such file or directory"
[20:17:42] eam: hilarious ;)
[20:17:57] eam: tends to mostly happen when building chroots and the like
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[20:19:00] brazenbraden: eam, i thought the whole point of having these containers was to not have all these issues lol. i wonder if it has something to do with doing a bundle install --path
[20:19:35] eam: nah, the point is to isolate all this crap you're doing so you can easily repeat it while debugging :)
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[20:19:57] eam: and not dedicate some horrible machine to run builds which you set up once over a period of time and now can no longer recreate
[20:20:11] brazenbraden: that for sure
[20:20:37] brazenbraden: weird thing is that i have a container environment set up for another project and dont have any problems -.-
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[20:22:50] brazenbraden: eam, so, my libruby.so on my host machine is in my user folder .rvm as I use rvm to manage my rubies.. but the docker image my dockerfile is pulling builds it
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[20:26:09] mbff: havenwood, I am not a smart man. I solved my problem
[20:26:23] mbff: I run a script that makes all files 0644 and folders 0755.
[20:26:37] mbff: It must have been setting the bins as non executables.
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[20:27:54] havenwood: mbff: Oops, glad you solved that mystery!
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[20:28:10] brazenbraden: eam, i am able to ls the files in the container but no clue where libruby.so is stored
[20:29:02] eam: you've gotta find that file
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[20:30:55] eam: BrazenBraden: you said you have an ubuntu system? Run `ldd $(which ruby)` and it will show you the libruby it uses
[20:31:21] eam: BrazenBraden: then I believe it's dpkg --search /path/to/libruby.whatever.so.2.2.0
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[20:31:29] eam: to find the package that owns it
[20:31:34] eam: I'm not super great with debian
[20:31:46] brazenbraden: eam, umm.. when i run that in my container, I get "No such file or directory" O.o
[20:32:32] eam: the ldd?
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[20:32:38] brazenbraden: eam, yea the ldd
[20:32:46] eam: so then, do you even have ruby installed in there?
[20:33:04] brazenbraden: yea, its a docker ruby image
[20:33:06] eam: libruby isn't found in the linker path, and ruby itself isn't found in $PATH
[20:33:09] brazenbraden: FROM ruby:2.2.3
[20:33:13] eam: well, it seems it isn't installed
[20:33:31] eam: from here it looks like docker debugging
[20:33:38] brazenbraden: that would be awfully strange for a ruby image lol
[20:33:52] eam: I agree, but I've seen stranger
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[20:34:11] eam: you can't run "ruby" at all in there right?
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[20:35:01] brazenbraden: eam, i can run ruby -v and I get ruby 2.2.3p173 (2015-08-18 revision 51636) [x86_64-linux]
[20:35:38] eam: well then, where is that ruby file you ran? run ldd on it
[20:35:50] eam: very odd that "which ruby" isn't working
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[20:36:17] brazenbraden: eam, the ldd didnt work.. but "which ruby" shows me /usr/local/bin/ruby
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[20:36:28] eam: oh, you don't have "ldd"?
[20:36:45] brazenbraden: might be the case. these images supposed to be light weight
[20:36:49] eam: man, this image is missing some basic stuff, that ships with glibc
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[20:37:16] brazenbraden: and its not even the slim version lol
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[20:37:53] eam: BrazenBraden: install binutils (or whatever ubuntu calls it) and run readelf -d
[20:37:55] eam: on ruby
[20:38:04] eam: actually that won't do it
[20:38:16] brazenbraden: will try.. dont know if the container will stay alive long enough
[20:38:35] eam: BrazenBraden: ldd is a shell script, try copying it over
[20:38:57] eam: I believe the actual executable it uses is the dynamic linker itself
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[20:39:37] brazenbraden: eam, easier than that, will just re-provision the containers including binutils in the build. anything else i should include while im at it?
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[20:56:18] brazenbraden: eam, i got the container up and running.. looks like doing bundle install --path my/path was the problem :S
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[21:04:38] shevy: ruby is sexy
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[21:10:08] shevy: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/24/1414915/-Why-I-Hate-Your-Favorite-Programming-Language-The-Death-of-PERL
[21:10:21] shevy: "Your language doesn't have to stay cool, but it does have to stay relevant in the minds of potential users."
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[21:10:30] dfockler: which ruby does
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[21:12:16] shevy: if they manage to transition along with version changes. I am curious for ruby 3.0
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[21:13:48] dfockler: so am I, immutable strings will be an interesting shift
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[21:18:06] Ox0dea: > a.unfreeze # this is currently not possible
[21:18:09] Ox0dea: From https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/11473#note-38
[21:18:13] Ox0dea: I thought that was cute.
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[21:35:44] shevy: Ox0dea have you finally welcomed immutable strings in your heart?
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[21:35:58] Ox0dea: No, of course not.
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[21:37:19] shevy: you grumpy old man!
[21:37:28] shevy: you'll never wear a santa claus costume
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[21:38:55] Ox0dea: shevy: You remembered I'm old! <3
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[21:41:45] Ox0dea: DATA is an elegant way to get hold of the current file as a File, but it only exists if there's an __END__; is there some way to overcome that limitation?
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[21:43:29] shevy: that bugs me as well
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[21:46:53] dfockler: No, otherwise there would be an infinite loop!
[21:47:13] dfockler: It would keep grabbing the file until the end of time....
[21:47:52] dfockler: I don't know what I'm talking about
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[21:48:22] dfockler: But I just learned about DATA and __END__, thanks ;)
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[21:52:57] shevy: it's nice to store configuration stuff on a per file basis
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[21:53:27] shevy: I have no idea how to grab DATA from multiple different .rb files
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[21:54:07] dfockler: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e5bf71b1ff30e3d4ff6a
[21:54:30] dfockler: No I wrote the wrong 'too/to'
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[21:59:10] Ox0dea: dfockler: Well, sure, evaluating it will loop.
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[21:59:51] Ox0dea: shevy: It's not possible except via manual extraction. :/
[22:00:20] Ox0dea: It happens while the "main" file is being parsed.
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[22:01:08] Ox0dea: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/ruby.c#L1778-L1792
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[22:03:54] shevy: rb_define_global_const("DATA", f);
[22:04:22] shevy: ruby gives me such a warm fuzzy feeling
[22:04:24] shevy: C scares me
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[22:09:42] diegoviola: shevy: why does C scares you?
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[22:11:28] wasamasa: ACTION lets diegoviola run into a segfault
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[22:17:49] adaedra: who's having segfaults
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[22:21:56] shevy: diegoviola can you write C?
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[22:23:25] havenn: ACTION [BUG] Segmentation fault
[22:23:36] diegoviola: shevy: anyone can write C, a better question would be "do you want to write C?"
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[22:24:20] diegoviola: shevy: I've wrote small C programs such as this one: https://github.com/diegoviola/examples/blob/master/c/ex2.c
[22:24:41] diegoviola: shevy: nothing too complex
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[22:28:46] shevy: you are missing the fun stuff
[22:28:48] shevy: pointers!
[22:29:45] phreakocious: I would like to make a nice thread-safe increment method that takes a class instance or global variable as a parameter.. is there a nice way to do this since you can't pass a reference to the variable?
[22:29:55] Ox0dea: diegoviola: What does `5[foo]` do and why?
[22:31:19] phreakocious: something like .. def foo(var) ; $mutex.synchronize { var += 1 } ....
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[22:32:23] diegoviola: Ox0dea: what do you mean
[22:32:29] Ox0dea: diegoviola: In C.
[22:32:36] Ox0dea: > anyone can write C
[22:32:36] diegoviola: Ox0dea: I don't know
[22:33:07] Ox0dea: phreakocious: It'd be easier not to use a primitive.
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[22:34:07] Ox0dea: phreakocious: Well, you can't get a "reference", so to speak, to a Fixnum.
[22:34:37] phreakocious: could it be done with (ick) eval?
[22:34:46] phreakocious: or some ruby equivalent
[22:34:49] diegoviola: Ox0dea: explain what it does
[22:35:18] Ox0dea: diegoviola: In C, `foo[5]` is the sixth element of `foo`, just like in Ruby.
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[22:35:33] diegoviola: Ox0dea: ok ty
[22:35:35] jhass: phreakocious: do a thread safe Counter class instead
[22:35:51] Ox0dea: diegoviola: But `array[index]` in C is actually just syntactic sugar for `*(array + index)`.
[22:35:52] jhass: var = Counter.new(0); var.increment
[22:36:04] Ox0dea: Since addition is commutative, `array[index]` == `index[array]`.
[22:36:04] diegoviola: Ox0dea: why are you trying to test my skills or something?
[22:36:04] phreakocious: ahh jhass I see'
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[22:36:17] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Please calm down.
[22:36:22] diegoviola: Ox0dea: ok sorry
[22:36:30] Ox0dea: This is a learning experience.
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[22:36:52] phreakocious: I'm still stuck in a very functional way of thinking. :D thanks Ox0dea and jhass
[22:37:15] Ox0dea: phreakocious: Functional "mutation" is pretty nifty.
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[22:38:25] Ox0dea: I'm looking at some C code where I did `(__compar_fn_t) strcmp` and it worked.
[22:38:31] Ox0dea: Very naughty.
[22:38:31] jhass: phreakocious: there's also things like http://ruby-concurrency.github.io/concurrent-ruby/Concurrent/AtomicFixnum.html
[22:39:29] phreakocious: that's pretty neat
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[22:49:40] Ox0dea: Explain this. https://eval.in/443243
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[23:04:06] Ox0dea: How could I have forgotten?
[23:04:29] Ox0dea: jhass: It's actually https://oeis.org/A020995, though.
[23:04:56] Ox0dea: Even spookier that 2222 is the largest such number.
[23:05:25] Ox0dea: Also that 251-252 pair.
[23:05:31] ytti: recommend me noise cancelling headphones
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[23:11:27] BraddPitt: is it possible to shell out to an interactive shell, then return to ruby after exit status?
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[23:14:31] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: https://gist.github.com/0x0dea/cc61a7e9a4ed0b7a5423
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[23:15:21] BraddPitt: neat, thank you Ox0dea
[23:15:26] Ox0dea: Sure thing.
[23:15:49] Ox0dea: That `c` is for "command", and I only put it in the parallel assignment so it would exist in time to be used in the post-while.
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[23:16:42] jhass: Ox0dea: but then https://eval.in/443250
[23:16:58] Ox0dea: jhass: What's this, then?
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[23:18:49] Ox0dea: It's a considerably less interesting sequence, if you won't mind my saying so.
[23:18:54] BraddPitt: I'm trying to make a Rakefile that will install all my dotfiles/programs
[23:19:03] BraddPitt: so this helps a lot with non handsfree installs (like Homebrew)
[23:20:39] Ox0dea: shevy: Go find your favorite integer sequence.
[23:20:42] Ox0dea: Everyone should have one.
[23:20:54] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: I'm not sure why you wanted something like what I wrote, then.
[23:21:11] shevy: I probably pick the one that includes the whole universe
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[23:21:19] Ox0dea: shevy: The... surreals?
[23:21:36] shevy: they are totally real! chuck norris counted to Infinity
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[23:22:39] jhass: shevy: https://oeis.org/A000796 is said to fulfill that
[23:22:57] Ox0dea: I knew what it was gonna be, but I `u /1`'d anyway.
[23:23:18] Ox0dea: No, I didn't. I `/u 1`'d.
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[23:23:53] Ox0dea: How do you even go about proving something like the normality of pi?
[23:24:03] BraddPitt: Ox0dea Homebrew requires user prompt for installation
[23:24:13] BraddPitt: and I was using backticks to shell out that install command
[23:24:20] jhass: Ox0dea: the answer is somewhere written inside Pi
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[23:24:32] Ox0dea: Far more likely than not.
[23:24:41] Ox0dea: Also, Hofstadter would like a word.
[23:24:52] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: `yes | foo`, no?
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[23:26:16] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: Do you need to say "yes" at the install prompt?
[23:26:55] BraddPitt: yeah, something like that
[23:27:02] BraddPitt: press enter, type [y]es, etc
[23:27:22] Ox0dea: BraddPitt: Then yeah, just pipe `yes` into the command.
[23:27:39] Ox0dea: It'll say "y" as often as necessary, but it does take an argument if you want it to say elsewise.
[23:27:40] BraddPitt: ah, but what about multiple prompts during install?
[23:27:45] Ox0dea: It loops.
[23:27:48] ruboto: Why don't you try it and see for yourself?
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[23:31:05] ruboto: I don't know anything about pain
[23:32:20] Ox0dea: ruboto writes motivational posters now.
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[23:36:12] shevy: he has some intelligence
[23:36:22] shevy: like warns people when he already told them once to not use pastebin
[23:36:25] shevy: he has attitude
[23:36:38] shevy: also, I determined that it's a he-bot
[23:38:44] Ox0dea: How'd you manage the latter?
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[23:40:46] shevy: look at how grumpy ruboto is when he has to tell someone to not use pastebin again
[23:41:06] shevy: he is literally on the verge of kicking when it happens a THIRD time
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[23:41:40] Ox0dea: Anger is for males?
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[23:51:35] shevy: that anger surely
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