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#ruby - 04 January 2016

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[00:55:55] Ox0dea: Peter Naur (the N in BNF) has died. :<
[00:56:56] pontiki: awww. how old was he?
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[00:59:02] pontiki: ACTION nods
[00:59:29] pontiki: same age as my dad
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[02:53:14] droptone: What is the best method to subtract 3 months from a Ruby DateTime object?
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[03:01:10] Radar: droptone: with or without activesupport?
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[03:04:17] Radar: droptone: With AS: time - 3.months
[03:04:20] Radar: without AS: ???
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[03:05:13] droptone: I have ActiveSupport included in this project - currently I'm turning a value returned from an API into a DateTime object via DateTime.parse
[03:05:21] Darmani: Hey kids ^.^
[03:05:22] droptone: but I'm pretty sure it's just leveraging the 'time' require
[03:05:32] droptone: Oh wait, never mind
[03:05:43] droptone: Yes, I hear you.
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[03:07:02] droptone: So what would the AS method be to declare the dt object?
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[03:07:19] droptone: ::Time and ::DateTime don't exist
[03:07:23] Radar: Time.parse instead of DateTime.
[03:07:30] Radar: Time.parse(blah) - 3.months
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[03:25:01] TheNet: anyone know of a gem for managing version numbers?
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[03:25:41] TheNet: i.e. if I have a version 1.0 and I want to increment the patch by 1, I would get 1.0.1
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[03:26:41] Ox0dea: TheNet: Are you sure you need a library for that?
[03:27:13] TheNet: Ox0dea: well I don't know if the original version number will be 1.0, or 1.0.1
[03:27:19] TheNet: or just 1
[03:27:35] TheNet: I could do the checks, but it would be nice if something already existed
[03:28:19] TheNet: I think I found one http://dazuma.github.io/versionomy/
[03:28:56] apeiros: TheNet: various gems which help with creating gems provide stuff like that. I've seen e.g. rake tasks for this purpose.
[03:29:05] apeiros: that said, I too don't really see the need for that.
[03:30:45] apeiros: I probably type less by doing it manually than if I'd invoke a rake task or another automatism.
[03:31:56] TheNet: apeiros: I want to automate a change to a bunch of files that each have a version number that I want to bump
[03:32:10] apeiros: why'd you have them in multiple files?
[03:32:39] TheNet: these are zip files
[03:32:44] TheNet: not gems or scripts
[03:32:57] diegoviola: I want to remove ruby from /usr/local, I compiled it myself
[03:33:13] TheNet: sounds like a bad idea
[03:33:23] diegoviola: no, it's not a bad idea
[03:33:36] diegoviola: I want to compile a newer version
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[03:33:50] TheNet: isn't it used by the OS though?
[03:34:20] apeiros: TheNet: that explains some things.
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[03:34:34] Ox0dea: diegoviola: `make --prefix=/usr/local uninstall` might do.
[03:35:14] diegoviola: TheNet: when you compile things to /usr/local, there is a very little chance it will be used by the OS itself, if it were installed by the distro package manager to /usr, then it's likely that other packages might depend on it
[03:35:36] diegoviola: Ox0dea: I don't think the Makefiles in the ruby source have an uninstall
[03:35:45] diegoviola: I already checked
[03:35:52] TheNet: diegoviola: oh I'm thinking of /usr/bin
[03:36:22] Ox0dea: diegoviola: You're mistaken.
[03:36:34] diegoviola: Ox0dea: about the Makefile?
[03:36:43] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Yes, the rule is in common.mk.
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[03:37:11] diegoviola: thanks for letting me know
[03:37:17] Ox0dea: Sure thing.
[03:37:24] agent_white: Evenin' folks
[03:38:37] Ox0dea: TheNet: To what would you like "1" to bump?
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[03:39:52] domgetter: TheNet: There's no way for a program to know if some set of changes represent a patch, a minor version change, or a major version change.
[03:40:04] Ox0dea: domgetter: Not with that attitude.
[03:40:16] domgetter: brb, building mind-reading AI
[03:40:35] Radar: diegoviola: what are you compiling that new Ruby with?
[03:40:38] Radar: ruby-install?
[03:40:55] TheNet: domgetter: this isn't a library, I'm iterating over a bunch of zip files that have a version number in their name and bumping the patch on each of them by 1
[03:41:08] Ox0dea: TheNet: So "1" bumps to "1.0.1"?
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[03:41:10] TheNet: It's a one-time operation, never plan on doing this again
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[03:41:24] apeiros: TheNet: you still need the rules
[03:41:59] TheNet: Ox0dea: a bunch of maps for a game are configured wrong. I'm automating the fix
[03:42:15] apeiros: TheNet: that sounds less like bumping and more like replacing
[03:42:31] domgetter: TheNet: Oh okay. yea, youd have to codify the rules of version changing yourself and then run the script
[03:42:50] TheNet: It's literally just semver
[03:43:12] apeiros: semver literally has nothing to do with automated version bumping :-p
[03:43:15] domgetter: TheNet: and semver is a set of rules you'll have to codify
[03:43:36] TheNet: which is why I was asking if there was a library that did this already
[03:44:01] apeiros: your "that" is insufficiently specified.
[03:44:11] Darmani: Ox0dea: I'm kinda curious
[03:44:11] shevy: that thing man
[03:44:13] apeiros: which is what a couple of people try to tell you for a while now.
[03:44:14] Darmani: Do you ever sleep?
[03:44:17] Ox0dea: Darmani: Once.
[03:44:23] Darmani: How was it?
[03:44:23] Ox0dea: It was a Thursday.
[03:44:34] Ox0dea: I have no idea; I was unconscious.
[03:44:40] Ox0dea: I heard that was largely the point.
[03:44:53] Darmani: Who told you that?
[03:44:55] Darmani: That's false.
[03:45:10] Ox0dea: And in that sleep what dreams may come?
[03:45:19] TheNet: apeiros: I think there was a communication error somewhere along the way. I have it figured out though. :)
[03:45:25] domgetter: TheNet: https://github.com/jlindsey/semantic https://github.com/dazuma/versionomy https://github.com/lightyear/semverly
[03:45:41] TheNet: domgetter: thanks
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[03:48:56] Ox0dea: TheNet: Alternatively: https://eval.in/496877
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[03:50:19] diegoviola: Ox0dea: it looks like I'll need to rebuild/reinstall ruby 2.2.4 to uninstall it
[03:50:30] diegoviola: No rule to make target `.installed.list', needed by `uninstall'. Stop.
[03:50:34] diegoviola: it wants that file
[03:50:38] diegoviola: .installed.list
[03:50:41] diegoviola: I don't have it anymore
[03:51:00] TheNet: Ox0dea: neat, thanks
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[03:51:06] Ox0dea: diegoviola: Did you purposely delete it?
[03:51:13] Ox0dea: TheNet: Sure thing.
[03:51:13] diegoviola: I think that file is created when I run make install
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[03:51:24] diegoviola: Ox0dea: no, I didn't
[03:51:33] shevy: diegoviola there is a much simpler alternative - compile into a specific versioned directory using --prefix
[03:51:53] diegoviola: I don't know where ruby-install put the source
[03:52:37] diegoviola: /usr/local/src/ruby-2.2.4
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[03:53:05] shevy: a versioned directory :D
[03:53:41] diegoviola: ok so I have that file
[03:53:53] diegoviola: just ran make uninstall
[03:54:11] diegoviola: and now I don't have ruby anymore
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[03:54:27] diegoviola: thanks folks :)
[03:54:45] diegoviola: now to install ruby-install 0.6.0 and ruby 2.3
[03:55:25] diegoviola: but first I have a question I need to answer myself, do I compile ruby to /usr/local or as a user in ~/.rubies
[03:55:45] diegoviola: I just have to run my rails app (as a user)
[03:56:00] shevy: ruby-install will install into your home dir right?
[03:56:01] diegoviola: removing ruby from /usr/local wasn't that hard
[03:56:35] diegoviola: if you run it as a user, it puts the source in ~/src and the rubies in ~/.rubies
[03:56:47] diegoviola: so it's easier to remove, just rm -rf ~/.rubies/ruby-2.2.4, etc
[03:57:03] diegoviola: well, removing it from /usr/local wasn't terribly hard
[03:57:14] havenwood: shevy: "Supports installing into /opt/rubies/ for root and ~/.rubies/ for users by default."
[03:57:28] diegoviola: but I'm sure there are leftovers in /usr/local
[03:57:33] havenwood: shevy: Wherever you'd like as an option.
[03:57:54] Ox0dea: $ git clone https://github.com/ruby/ruby && cd ruby && autoconf && mkcd build && configure .. & make --prefix=~/.rubies/ruby-trunk install
[03:57:57] shevy: diegoviola yeah! just kill a directory and you are done
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[03:58:16] diegoviola: kill a directory?
[03:58:17] Darmani: Ox0dea: Dude
[03:58:30] Ox0dea: Darmani: The bleeding edge is hot.
[03:58:43] Darmani: Should I just study documentation? Or is there like a book you would recommend I should read?
[03:59:10] Ox0dea: ?books Darmani
[03:59:11] ruboto: Darmani, You can find a list of recommended books at http://ruby-community.com/pages/links
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[03:59:45] ruboto: I don't know anything about twgr
[03:59:48] Radar: Thanks ruboto
[04:00:05] Ox0dea: Darmani: This tutorial is also very good: https://youtu.be/GlKL_EpnSp8?t=28
[04:00:05] Radar: http://www.amazon.com/The-Well-Grounded-Rubyist-David-Black/dp/1933988657 I recommend this book.
[04:00:35] Darmani: Ox0dea: You're an idiot. Lol
[04:00:52] agent_white: Darmani: I hope you've gotten somewhere... you were asking the same question over 8 hours ago.
[04:00:53] Ox0dea: You're not wrong.
[04:01:26] Darmani: agent_white: I haven't been studying I was doing other things. I just came back to my computer.
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[04:02:30] agent_white: Ah. And ick! 'studying'. That makes it sound like boring work instead of fun.
[04:02:48] Darmani: That's because it fucking is lol
[04:03:06] Darmani: Don't get me wrong I enjoy it, but when I don't understand what to do or where to look it becomes studying.
[04:04:36] Darmani: I also don't understand something just by reading it. It takes a few different methods before I get a concept or idea.
[04:04:48] Darmani: oh to be me. It's such a wonderful thing.
[04:05:00] Ox0dea: /part #self-loathing
[04:05:01] shevy: Darmani that is why you have to write a lot of code
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[04:05:12] agent_white: Same. Gotta just dive in.
[04:05:57] Darmani: ACTION sigh
[04:05:59] Darmani: okay guys.
[04:06:29] Radar: I've read so many fitness blogs but I don't have those washboard abs. Please help
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[04:06:45] Darmani: That's funny.
[04:07:07] Darmani: Radar: Aren't you clever?
[04:07:08] shevy: yeah... homer simpson worthy... "I eat so many donuts and still don't lose weight"
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[04:07:40] Radar: Darmani: While I might be cleverer than you at Ruby and analogies, you are definitely cleverer than me at... well, I am not sure yet because I din't know you.
[04:07:54] Darmani: I'm sure we'll think of something. Lol
[04:08:19] Radar: Something.
[04:08:31] Radar: Point is: different folks are differently clever.
[04:09:05] pipework: Some people aren't clever at all.
[04:09:11] apeiros: seems they try to show you that they're clever at symbolisms
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[04:09:14] pipework: ACTION points at himself :(
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[04:09:27] apeiros: Darmani: might not be all too clever to show the finger to an op, though
[04:09:29] Radar: apeiros: seems that way
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[04:10:35] Darmani: apeiros: thanks for the tip. Do you always give advice to people who don't ask?
[04:10:47] Ox0dea: Just the tip?
[04:10:57] apeiros: Darmani: I also sometimes show people the door even though they don't want to go???
[04:11:09] Radar: Darmani: Yeah it happens all the time. Little personality quirk.
[04:11:42] shevy: lol that was an epic reply from apeiros :D
[04:11:53] Darmani: Is apeiros a mod or something?
[04:12:01] Darmani: Is that why he acts so high and mighty?
[04:12:05] Radar: Darmani: plz consult /msg chanserv access #ruby list
[04:12:42] agent_white: Darmani: If it's free, it's advice; if you pay for it, it's counceling; if you can use either one, it's a miracle.
[04:12:55] Darmani: Oh wonderful.
[04:13:06] shevy: this is #funday on #ruby
[04:13:10] Darmani: No one his opinion is the only one that matters.
[04:13:13] Darmani: It all makes sense now.
[04:13:21] Darmani: Forgive me your highness, forgive my arrogance.
[04:13:27] domgetter: Funday Monday?
[04:13:47] Ox0dea: He's repentant, if nothing else. <3
[04:13:49] shevy: oh damn yeah... it's a Monday and I woke up not long ago :(
[04:14:38] Darmani: Okay I really should study. Or pretend to study.
[04:14:47] Darmani: Or stare at my computer screen and call that studying.
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[04:15:06] Darmani: I forget which one is correct...
[04:15:10] shevy: Darmani you can try it with some different strategy... e. g. learn just 3-5 minutes but very intensely, then do something else - repeat a lot
[04:15:26] Ox0dea: shevy: Is there a name for that technique?
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[04:15:41] agent_white: Ox0dea: Pomodoro.
[04:15:51] Ox0dea: agent_white: 3-5, though?
[04:16:01] Darmani: shevy: You know, I actually don't have great habits when it comes to learning. That's probably a good method.
[04:16:10] agent_white: Ox0dea: Extreme pomodoro?
[04:16:23] domgetter: Darmani: what are you studying?
[04:16:26] agent_white: I wouldn't go 3-5. Give it 15.
[04:16:49] Darmani: domgetter: How to have washboard abs
[04:16:58] agent_white: Darmani: It helps if you have a goal in mind. Mindless 'studying' is the worst.
[04:16:58] Darmani: I've been reading Fitness blogs for the past two hours.
[04:17:00] shevy: Ox0dea dunno really but I think it's similar to when you just keep on repeating some facts for some upcoming exam
[04:17:07] Radar: Darmani: http://tomatoi.st/uxco
[04:17:17] Darmani: agent_white: but what's the goddamn goal?
[04:17:19] Radar: Darmani: Hit Pomodoro, then learn for that.
[04:17:23] Radar: Darmani: Solve a Sudoku.
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[04:17:35] Darmani: The fuck is a Sudoku?
[04:17:35] agent_white: ^ tomato-timer.com also... but I like Radar's more.
[04:17:38] Radar: Although that might be too hard.
[04:18:07] Radar: Darmani: Do you have any Ruby experience at all?
[04:18:12] agent_white: Darmani: You tell me. When I was learning about switch-statements, I made a little program to order a pizza.
[04:18:49] Darmani: Radar: Bits and pieces. It's all jumbled really. I can do basic things....
[04:19:00] agent_white: Radar: I don't think he has any prior programming experience.
[04:19:01] Radar: Darmani: Ok, your goal for the next 25 mins is to get through as many of http://rubykoans.com/ as you can.
[04:19:06] Darmani: Oh like that Fizzbuzz program shit?
[04:19:13] Darmani: I figured that one out myself ^.^
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[04:19:24] Radar: Fizzbuzz is really an idiot test.
[04:19:25] agent_white: ^^ Darmani do what Radar said!
[04:19:34] agent_white: I enjoyed Ruby Monk as well.
[04:19:35] Radar: If you can do Fizzbuzz, then you can do programming.
[04:19:48] Darmani: I passed the idiot test
[04:20:31] domgetter: Darmani: part of learning how to program is ignoring yourself when you tell yourself that you already know how to do something
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[04:20:57] domgetter: Knowing how to do something is not a good reason to not do it
[04:21:18] Darmani: domgetter: O.o????
[04:21:22] Darmani: That was a double negative.
[04:21:33] apeiros: domgetter: but that's my favorite reason not to do things :-(
[04:21:39] agent_white: Darmani: Have you started on ruby koans or ruby monk?
[04:22:06] Darmani: agent_white: I've never heard of Ruby Koans. I've gone through most of Rubymonk.
[04:22:23] apeiros: Darmani: there's also rubywarrior
[04:22:28] domgetter: Darmani: It was an intentional double negative
[04:22:36] Darmani: apeiros: Are we friends now? o.o
[04:22:51] agent_white: Darmani: Then look it up? And if you have gone through 'most', why are you still worried about finding a path to learn?
[04:23:05] apeiros: Darmani: no? unless you insist on behaving like a pre-teen, I'm not your enemy, though.
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[04:23:41] Darmani: agent_white: Well... It all seems very basic. I know that sounds dumb but I feel like I know it already.
[04:23:52] Darmani: apeiros: You're the one making enemies -__-
[04:23:58] shevy: Darmani well, simple solutions - build larger programs
[04:24:03] shevy: they will become more complex automatically
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[04:24:18] apeiros: Darmani: no, I'm the one making the rules you don't like and choose the wrong way to show that.
[04:24:22] domgetter: Darmani if you know it so well, then practicing it should be easy :)
[04:24:27] apeiros: (insert random missing "you")
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[04:25:02] agent_white: Darmani: It's probably not if you're having issues with it. Take a second look. :)
[04:25:04] shevy: Darmani you can also do some commandline interface next for some .rb file that you use - enable options such as --help or --directory=/tmp
[04:25:05] domgetter: There's a difference between knowing something and *willing* it
[04:25:09] Darmani: shevy: Well. they seem so far out of reach though.
[04:25:12] apeiros: Darmani: you may go over the backlog and you'll see that all I did was tell you that your violence metaphor was not cool and not welcome, and that showing the finger to an op is not a good idea.
[04:25:22] shevy: it's simple! just ARGV handling
[04:25:26] Darmani: A simple Cipher is easy enough to do or any other method for that matter
[04:25:33] Darmani: And then you tell me to build a music app
[04:25:36] domgetter: For example, right now I'm taking typing tests. I can already type sufficiently fast and I know the keyboard, but I want to get better
[04:25:37] shevy: then use modules + classes and have a logical structure
[04:25:55] shevy: (project structure that is)
[04:26:03] agent_white: domgetter: Typeracer?! :D
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[04:26:12] domgetter: agent_white: 10fastfingers ;)
[04:26:15] apeiros: Darmani: so if that makes me your enemy, I'd say that's pretty much a problem on your side.
[04:26:22] agent_white: Hm. Never heard of it.
[04:26:47] Ox0dea: Are we gonna race?
[04:26:48] domgetter: agent_white: it's pretty nice http://www.10fastfingers.com/typing-test/english
[04:27:00] Darmani: apeiros: Are we still discussing this?
[04:27:10] Darmani: I'm over it.
[04:27:24] apeiros: Darmani: lol
[04:27:30] apeiros: if you say so
[04:27:32] Ox0dea: http://10fastfingers.com/speedtests/generate_screenshot_result/1_120_598_0_0_89_0_100_1_2327
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[04:27:41] Ox0dea: domgetter: That was from forever ago, though.
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[04:28:13] diegoviola: does ruby-install requires I use chruby if I compile it as a user?
[04:28:16] domgetter: Ox0dea: My record is 111 from earlier today. I aspire to be the fastest typer in the world
[04:28:36] diegoviola: or I just have to add ruby to my PATH?
[04:28:42] Darmani: Okay. I'm going to study.
[04:28:46] Darmani: I'll be back later.
[04:29:05] Darmani: What was I supposed to do again
[04:29:09] Darmani: Oh yeah Ruby Koans
[04:29:37] Ox0dea: diegoviola: chruby just makes the process even more painless.
[04:30:18] diegoviola: right, so I'm not sure I want to use chruby+ruby-install as a user on my server, or only use ruby-install and compile ruby in /usr/local
[04:30:26] agent_white: domgetter: I'm still working at pushing mine a bit. I'm been at 85wpm for awhile.
[04:31:01] pipework: Seeing as it's just a server that's your personal one, I wouldn't worry one bit about cleanliness anymore than you really actually want to.
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[04:31:30] diegoviola: it's not my personal server
[04:31:32] pipework: I personally don't include build toolchains on production-like systems.
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[04:32:56] shevy: diegoviola use a versioned directory!
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[04:33:20] pipework: shevy: Even better, have the server forward all requests to his development machine!
[04:34:42] Ox0dea: #deep: https://eval.in/496878
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[04:39:11] diegoviola: I'll just dump it to /usr/local
[04:39:14] diegoviola: standard path
[04:39:26] diegoviola: s/dump/install/
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[04:39:56] diegoviola: meaning I'm just lazy to set up paths myself manually
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[04:43:12] Darmani: Wait. I'm confused how to proceed..
[04:43:21] Darmani: So I open the Ruby Koans in a text editor..
[04:43:23] Darmani: And then what
[04:44:56] pipework: diegoviola: good luck upgrading. :)
[04:44:57] Radar: Darmani: Did you read the readme yet?
[04:45:20] Darmani: Of course I did
[04:46:18] Ox0dea: Darmani: What's the deal, man? You're actively resisting assistance.
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[04:46:49] Darmani: Ox0dea: I'm not honestly. I didn't think I had to read the ReadMe. I thought I could just go straight into it.
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[04:47:34] agent_white: I want to believe this is not a troll.
[04:47:56] Darmani: I'm not the type that reads instructions...
[04:48:01] shevy: he is just very lazy
[04:48:07] Darmani: I've always been more trial and error honestly.
[04:48:11] apeiros: agent_white: most certainly not a troll.
[04:48:52] shevy: Darmani you need a ruby black-ops variant where you can get your mission assignment through ruby, then you will read that since it suddenly appears more interesting
[04:48:52] Darmani: The ReadMe is an RDoc though. I'm not sure how to open that >.<
[04:49:00] apeiros: rdoc is plaintext
[04:49:08] diegoviola: pipework: ty
[04:49:11] Darmani: lmaoo shevy you're funny.
[04:49:13] agent_white: domgetter: https://github.com/neo/ruby_koans/blob/master/README.rdoc
[04:49:15] diegoviola: $ ruby-install --system ruby 2.3.0
[04:49:18] diegoviola: just did that already
[04:49:24] agent_white: Sorry domgetter
[04:49:24] diegoviola: ruby-install is amazing
[04:49:28] agent_white: Darmani: https://github.com/neo/ruby_koans/blob/master/README.rdoc
[04:49:30] Ox0dea: Darmani: http://rubykoans.com/
[04:49:35] agent_white: I must be a magician.
[04:49:51] shevy: it really is #funday here
[04:50:00] ChanServ: +o agent_white
[04:50:05] apeiros: now you even have a wizard hat
[04:50:09] Darmani: Alright well let me go read all this shit I guess
[04:50:13] Darmani: ACTION sighs
[04:50:14] ChanServ: -o agent_white
[04:50:30] Ox0dea: Missed your chance to wreak havoc.
[04:50:41] agent_white: Nah I rmrfed my server
[04:50:43] domgetter: agent_white: s'all good
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[04:50:51] Radar: TIL agent_white has ops
[04:51:17] agent_white: Radar: The world was unsafe for a brief moment.
[04:51:20] Radar: or at least, had.
[04:51:32] Ox0dea: agent_white: I thought type systems were supposed to save us?
[04:51:48] apeiros: agent_white: we felt a tremble
[04:52:05] Ox0dea: Earth :: Unsafe(World)
[04:52:06] apeiros: or wait, tremble is the verb and tremor the noun?
[04:52:18] Ox0dea: apeiros: Aye.
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[04:53:01] Ox0dea: Then again, "a tremble" isn't unheard of, and "tremoring" is a word.
[04:53:05] Ox0dea: English is crazy.
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[04:53:45] apeiros: just like about all languages
[04:54:02] Ox0dea: You take that back.
[04:54:05] Ox0dea: Toki Pona is awesome.
[04:54:18] diegoviola: Radar: do I really want to --disable-install-rdoc when compiling ruby on my server?
[04:54:21] apeiros: that's a more recent artifical one, right?
[04:54:26] diegoviola: Radar: because it's already building...
[04:54:34] Radar: diegoviola: Don't worry if you hadn't done it.
[04:54:42] diegoviola: should I ctrl-c?
[04:54:45] apeiros: and you also learnt esperanto and lojban in order to compare?
[04:54:46] Radar: diegoviola: no need
[04:54:49] Ox0dea: apeiros: s/artificial/constructed/, though.
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[05:01:36] Melpaws: i'm struggling with a silly string interpolation (newbie here). I'm trying to use a call inside a method like so : results = pp @client.characters(name: 'name_passed_here') . But it returns empty on the call . Suggestions?
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[05:02:35] apeiros: Melpaws: you'll have to show your .characters method. or if the problem is with the value you pass, then the actual value.
[05:02:56] apeiros: since you talk about string interpolation: note that single quoted strings do not interpolate.
[05:03:32] Melpaws: hm. Let me get a gist up since i've tried a few attempts so far and gone no where
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[05:08:13] Ox0dea: shevy: Mind a PM?
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[05:10:26] diegoviola: !!! Installation of ruby 2.3.0 failed!
[05:10:59] diegoviola: I don't get why it failed
[05:12:12] diegoviola: /home/admapp/src/ruby-2.3.0/lib/fileutils.rb:1393:in `initialize': Permission denied @ rb_sysopen - /usr/local/bin/ruby (Errno::EACCES)
[05:13:04] domgetter: agent_white: I actually made my own typing test that tells you how long it takes to type individual letter combinations: http://domgetter.github.io/typerooni/index.html
[05:13:12] diegoviola: it sounds like a permission thing, wouldn't ruby-install ask me for sudo password to install it?
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[05:15:49] Ox0dea: Heh, "wordlet".
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[05:16:13] diegoviola: nevermind, compiling as root now
[05:16:51] apeiros: Melpaws: you getting up a gist still a thing? I might be gone soon???
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[05:19:23] Ox0dea: domgetter: Needs more than 100 words. :P
[05:19:49] domgetter: Ox0dea: hehe, I know
[05:19:56] domgetter: lemme bump it up to 150 for you
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[05:20:29] Ox0dea: Danke. <3
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[05:23:41] domgetter: Ox0dea: there you go
[05:23:52] Ox0dea: domgetter: Much appreciated.
[05:24:49] domgetter: Ox0dea: also, if you press F5 while your cursor is in the input field, it will reset the game and keep your history. the next time you finish a game, youll see all the wordlets youve typed up to that time (until you close the tab or do a refresh)
[05:25:25] Melpaws: sorry @apeiros - got called away
[05:25:29] Melpaws: https://gist.github.com/dylnnlsn/b4ee65482021ce2f9c98
[05:25:32] Ox0dea: domgetter: Ah, that's nifty. I noticed that F5 didn't do a full reload, but it's neat that it has a memory too.
[05:26:06] Ox0dea: Melpaws: You're passing a keyword argument, but the method expects a positional one.
[05:26:06] domgetter: Ox0dea: the magic you can do with persistent immutable data structures!
[05:26:16] Ox0dea: domgetter: Time travel, even!
[05:26:34] Melpaws: i've tried a few ways in the name like so :
[05:26:37] domgetter: Ox0dea: hold down F5 and watch the game reset every frame!
[05:27:27] Ox0dea: Melpaws: Er, sorry, maybe not. I made that call based on the signature of #character_test.
[05:27:43] Melpaws: https://gist.github.com/dylnnlsn/b4ee65482021ce2f9c98 updated . So do i pass #{like_so} ?
[05:27:43] Darmani: Ox0dea: Breh
[05:28:00] Darmani: I haven't come across this "Assert Equals" before. What does it do? o.o
[05:28:10] Ox0dea: Darmani: It asserts equality, silly.
[05:28:19] Darmani: I swear to god
[05:28:40] apeiros: Melpaws: as said, single quoted strings do not interpolate.
[05:28:42] domgetter: Darmani: There's not any more to it.
[05:29:04] domgetter: Darmani: if the two things are equal, the assertion passes. if the two things passed in are not equal, the assertion fails
[05:29:08] Darmani: That's really what it does? So it tests two values to see if they are the same?
[05:29:13] apeiros: Melpaws: but from your gist, I still don't see what you're struggling with. please make sure you include expected and actual outcome.
[05:29:14] Ox0dea: Darmani: Yeah.
[05:29:35] Darmani: Well that makes sense I guess.
[05:29:36] domgetter: Darmani: yes. It does this so it can make some pretty green and red output in your console to show you what tests have failed
[05:29:55] Melpaws: one sec @apeiros
[05:29:57] Darmani: And here I thought you were being your normal sarcastic self Ox0dea
[05:30:04] domgetter: Darmani: it becomes super useful when you're changing code and you didn't write it, or you wrote it months ago and don't 100% remember everything about it
[05:30:22] Darmani: domgetter: Hm. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you sir ^.^
[05:30:27] apeiros: Melpaws: additionally - interpolation of a local variable is "#{variable}", not "#variable"
[05:30:28] Ox0dea: Darmani: Programmatically validating your assertions is so much better than guessing.
[05:30:38] Ox0dea: *your assumptions
[05:30:45] domgetter: And *euuchh* manual testing
[05:31:19] Darmani: Well back to it.
[05:31:43] apeiros: domgetter: why test manuals if nobody reads them? (scnr)
[05:32:27] Melpaws: so when i use "#{variable}" i get the following error back from the api :
[05:32:35] Melpaws: "#<Marvel::Response::Error: 409 name cannot be blank if it is set>"
[05:32:48] apeiros: Melpaws: remove the api from the equation
[05:32:58] apeiros: Melpaws: get an example working with your interpolation.
[05:33:00] domgetter: apeiros: I would test Manuel, but he doesn't look very friendly
[05:33:02] Ox0dea: Melpaws: Ah, then interpolation is the problem.
[05:33:13] Ox0dea: Because your use of the API is correct.
[05:33:39] Ox0dea: The variable you're interpolating doesn't contain what you think it does.
[05:33:40] apeiros: Melpaws: as in, an example which does not use the api. just interpolation.
[05:33:50] Ox0dea: In fact, it almost certainly contains nil.
[05:33:54] apeiros: and what Ox0dea said is probably your problem.
[05:33:54] Ox0dea: >> "#{nil}" # Melpaws
[05:33:55] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "" (https://eval.in/496880)
[05:34:23] apeiros: (but without real code - impossible to tell???)
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[05:34:30] Ox0dea: apeiros: It is real code?
[05:34:40] apeiros: Ox0dea: his gist was only partially real
[05:34:49] Ox0dea: apeiros: Real enough to diagnose, I reckon.
[05:35:00] apeiros: Ox0dea: real enough to speculate, at best
[05:35:21] apeiros: results = pp @client.characters(name: '#name_here') # <- the piece they gisted - does not show the very thing they have an issue with
[05:35:34] Melpaws: if i take out the '#name_here' variable it works. so if i replace with literal like 'thanos' it will call up all the thanos related marvel comics . Yes
[05:36:03] Ox0dea: Melpaws: You're doing a character search.
[05:36:13] Ox0dea: http://developer.marvel.com/docs#!/public/getCreatorCollection_get_0
[05:36:53] Melpaws: yeppers . but the stupid interpolation retuns a blank result
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[05:37:23] apeiros: Melpaws: Api::ApiMarvel.character_test() if you call it like this, then `name` will be nil
[05:37:26] apeiros: as Ox0dea already said
[05:37:58] apeiros: but no idea how you actually interpolate, as you haven't showed it - or only showed a broken way which would result in a different error/result
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[05:38:53] Ox0dea: I reckon Melpaws has gotten closest with `name: "#{name}"` + forgetting to pass an argument to #character_test.
[05:38:58] Ox0dea: As apeiros already implied.
[05:39:28] apeiros: on a note of character_test() - you probably shouldn't even allow leaving name off. there's no point to it.
[05:40:40] Melpaws: sorry , its 100% of code. I use the gem - https://github.com/O-I/marvel too. But as you noted, its returning the nil as that is result when i try passing not the literal . So if i pass it an argument like './marvel_script.rb Spider-Man' the result is []
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[05:41:42] apeiros: Melpaws: your gist does not do any argument processing
[05:41:51] apeiros: so whether you pass your script an arg or not doesn't matter
[05:42:57] apeiros: so if your gist *really* is your code, and up to date, then you're doing 3 things wrong: a) you don't process ARGV, b) you pass no name to character_test, c) '#name_here' is wrong, it should be just name - no interpolation needed
[05:43:20] apeiros: i.e., c) -> @client.characters(name: name)
[05:44:12] apeiros: and I'd strongly suggest you test out those things individually. otherwise you get confused about what's causing issues in your code.
[05:44:35] Melpaws: probably - let me fix with argv options
[05:46:07] apeiros: well, I'm off. Ox0dea or other people in here will surely help you with the rest :) good luck!
[05:46:26] Ox0dea: Au revoir.
[05:47:25] Darmani: Does that oval appear when you've finished a section?
[05:49:57] Ox0dea: Darmani: Yes, it's there to remind you that mountains are merely mountains.
[05:50:23] Ox0dea: Er, wait... I think that's only supposed to show up once you've finished?
[05:50:27] Darmani: yeah I don't understand that line of thinking
[05:50:32] Darmani: "merely" mountains
[05:51:00] Ox0dea: The fuck can mountains do?
[05:51:18] Darmani: what? lol xD
[05:55:36] Darmani: Ox0dea breh
[05:56:10] Darmani: Meh. Never mind.
[05:56:19] Melpaws: thank you @Ox0dea and @ apeiros . it was the stupid argv options not being passed. I will hide my head in shame now
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[06:08:37] Ox0dea: Darmani: Trial-and-error can certainly lead to worthwhile insight, but required are the materials to perform sufficiently meaningful trials and a deep enough understanding of the terrain to recognize and subsequently correct your errors.
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[06:09:35] Darmani: Ox0dea: Really. You called me to say that? Lol
[06:09:44] Ox0dea: Darmani: You'll find the video tutorial I linked earlier to be of some relevance.
[06:09:57] Darmani: Those words were spoken hours ago lmao have you been meditating on them all this time?
[06:10:04] Ox0dea: I am always meditating.
[06:10:10] Darmani: Good practice.
[06:11:25] Darmani: Ox0dea: Most people regardless of their understanding learn through trial and error. True it's probably not prudent but it's in our nature to learn things for ourselves. Even the hard way if need be.
[06:11:43] Ox0dea: That just doesn't work for intellectual endeavors.
[06:11:54] Ox0dea: The world isn't so structured as a computer.
[06:12:00] Ox0dea: You're meant to use that to your advantage.
[06:12:03] Ox0dea: Both ways.
[06:12:27] Darmani: That I am learning the hard way...
[06:12:30] Darmani: Unfortunately.
[06:12:47] agent_white: Kinda. For instance, I agree with Jeff Atwood that beginners have no business attempting to follow any 'patterns' of any sort.
[06:13:13] agent_white: Patterns being an intellectual endeavor? Absolutely. Helpful to the novice? No way in hell.
[06:13:47] Ox0dea: Darmani: In any case, I'm not knocking trial-and-error, but it has to be done a certain way to prove effective.
[06:14:05] Darmani: agent_white: I would tend to agree with that line of thinking. I have memorized whole lines of code trying to understand the concept to no avail. Though I knew how it went together I had no idea how it worked.
[06:14:46] Darmani: Ox0dea: I understand. Bear with me though friend, eventually I'll come to the end of myself and see things your way. If indeed it is the correct way.
[06:14:48] Ox0dea: Darmani: If you're memorizing lines of code rather than the concepts they embody, you're gonna have a bad time.
[06:17:32] agent_white: Darmani: Well... I'm not saying that at all. "Had no idea how it worked" is not good.
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[06:18:20] agent_white: Darmani: Listen to what Ox0dea is saying... what I had said doesn't apply here it seems.
[06:19:03] Darmani: agent_white: I am not advocating my approach nor condoning it in any way shape or form. I agree that following patterns without understanding their meaning is counter-intuitive.
[06:20:21] agent_white: Darmani: I understand what you mean. As I said, I regret mentioning "patterns", as we're talking about understanding single lines of code.
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[06:22:32] Ox0dea: Regarding "Listen to [Ox0dea]": https://youtu.be/VFHpvPwq2i8?t=452
[06:23:23] agent_white: Darmani: As Ox0dea said, the concept is more important than the syntax... like, MUCH more important. (a thing can be done in many different ways, with various amounts of characters, but HOW and WHY they are done as they are helps to oil-the-cogs)
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[06:24:17] jackcom: making language is difficult?
[06:24:45] Ox0dea: jackcom: Designing your own concatenative language is pretty easy, comparatively.
[06:24:56] Ox0dea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language)
[06:25:04] jackcom: i want make ruby+ language that is developed from ruby
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[06:25:48] Ox0dea: jackcom: Define "ruby+", then.
[06:26:01] Darmani: agent_white: Thank you sir, I know that.
[06:26:23] Ox0dea: Darmani: You know that a house must be built on a foundation lest it crumble?
[06:26:33] jackcom: yeah very powerful language comparaitvely ruby of 7 multiful power. Ox0dea
[06:26:41] Darmani: Lest the waves and the wind come and it falls apart?
[06:26:47] Ox0dea: > ruby of 7 multiful power
[06:26:51] Darmani: Yes Ox0dea. Obviously.
[06:27:14] Ox0dea: Darmani: It does seem so obvious, doesn't it?
[06:27:28] Darmani: To you and I, I believe so.
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[06:28:13] agent_white: Darmani: :) A desired output is awesome. But understanding how it is created, moreso. (tldr; fail2win, dothething, but don't copypasta)
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[06:33:37] jackcom: ruby plus that can do by saying command. if i say ruby plus that ???hack www.xxxx.com site, then ruby plus do it automatically.
[06:34:02] jackcom: how about?
[06:34:10] Ox0dea: Darmani: At least you're not that guy, eh?
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[06:34:33] shevy: ack... I just discovered this typo in my code... "(i = Nil)"
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[06:35:39] jackcom: shevy: happy new year
[06:35:44] Darmani: Ox0dea: What guy?
[06:36:19] shevy: jackcom happy new year to you as well
[06:36:29] jackcom: thanks shevy
[06:36:50] Ox0dea: Darmani: Disregard.
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[06:45:54] Darmani: ugh I don't fucking understand this.
[06:46:38] domgetter: Darmani: what's got you stumped?
[06:46:45] Darmani: Ruby Koans... I just don't get it...
[06:46:56] agent_white: And what part?
[06:47:03] Darmani: about_arrays
[06:47:35] Darmani: I don't even understand what they are trying to ask me
[06:47:43] Darmani: What's the point of learning Ruby like this???
[06:47:48] Darmani: All your doing is filling in the blanks
[06:48:18] Darmani: http://ideone.com/NBQI46
[06:48:22] Darmani: What is this asking me???
[06:48:25] Darmani: I don't get it...
[06:49:14] domgetter: They want you to fill in the blank
[06:49:31] Darmani: yeah. I understood that much.
[06:49:32] domgetter: If you have a brand new empty array, what is its class?
[06:49:33] Darmani: With what???
[06:49:45] Darmani: It's an array class....
[06:50:02] domgetter: That's correct, so they want you to fill in the first blank with the word Array
[06:50:11] Darmani: Are you shitting me
[06:50:18] Ox0dea: Baby steps, grasshopper.
[06:50:20] domgetter: assert_equal Array, empty_array.class
[06:50:26] shevy: you can put any object into an Array Darmani
[06:50:30] Darmani: that is so fucking stupid
[06:50:47] domgetter: you gotta learn syntax sometimes
[06:50:54] Ox0dea: This is semantics.
[06:51:03] Ox0dea: In any case, Darmani wants a miracle. :/
[06:51:10] agent_white: It's also pertinent that you remember these are tests... failing ones give you an idea of what it wants. Just like Rubymonk.
[06:51:21] shevy: Darmani the whole idea is to be able to assert that what you are testing, will work as expected, when you lateron make changes. it's more useful when you have larger projects
[06:51:48] Ox0dea: You want to push a button or read a few tweets or some shit and magically know how to program.
[06:51:53] Ox0dea: It's not gonna happen that way.
[06:52:02] Darmani: Ox0dea: No one said that -__-
[06:52:18] domgetter: Darmani: I take it you figured out how to fill the second blank?
[06:52:43] Darmani: Actually no...
[06:52:45] Ox0dea: "Omigod! How can something that's empty have a size?!"
[06:52:48] agent_white: Darmani: Keep irb open as well :) --
[06:53:07] domgetter: Darmani: if you have an empty bag, how many things are in it?
[06:53:14] Ox0dea: domgetter: There's no apples there!
[06:53:18] agent_white: Darmani: "it's array class... right?" could have been answered with you simply doing `[].class` in irb.
[06:53:18] Darmani: Are you serious
[06:53:20] Darmani: That's the answer
[06:53:37] domgetter: programming is very simple, you just have to learn all the words
[06:53:42] Darmani: lmao aaaaaand we're back in third grade
[06:53:56] Darmani: domgetter: Thank you though. Honestly I feel so dumb.
[06:54:00] agent_white: :) Just like learning a new language.
[06:54:10] shevy: you are a baby right now Darmani
[06:54:13] Darmani: agent_white: There are better ways to learn a new language.
[06:54:15] domgetter: Darmani: no reason to feel dumb. It's not your fault someone else named things poortly
[06:54:28] Darmani: shevy: NOT EVEN
[06:54:32] shevy: you named something poortly!!!
[06:54:47] eam: port is delicious
[06:54:48] agent_white: Darmani: False. There are _many_ ways ;) Better is subjective.
[06:54:52] shevy: Darmani well you gotta start somewhere :)
[06:55:04] Ox0dea: eam: Cheese xor wine?
[06:55:05] shevy: Darmani imagine if you would be age 60 and learn to progam from scratch
[06:55:20] Darmani: agent_white: I suppose.
[06:55:26] Darmani: shevy: that would suck.
[06:55:28] eam: Ox0dea: yes please
[06:55:38] domgetter: shevy: ugh that would suck. I hate that I waited til I was 25
[06:55:44] shevy: domgetter hehe
[06:55:52] shevy: 25 is pretty old already"
[06:56:38] Darmani: Where's domgetter
[06:56:41] Darmani: read me the next one
[06:56:45] agent_white: Darmani: I was told I needed to learn programming/Ruby to help my devs by building a testing suite for our website. I was a network guy with no programming experience. Had to learn because the other network dude didn't indent code, so 'I was more fit'. Pick and choose your method of learning :)
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[06:57:11] Darmani: agent_white: Back when the world was young and things were easier.
[06:57:18] Darmani: What a lovely place that was.
[06:57:36] agent_white: Darmani: By 'the world' you mean config files? Yes. :P
[06:57:40] domgetter: Darmani: I only help after you put in some effort ;)
[06:57:43] agent_white: This is more fun though.
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[06:58:06] Darmani: ACTION sighs
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[06:58:18] Ox0dea: Darmani: You get your foot outta that grave this instant!
[06:58:24] agent_white: Darmani: Keep going!
[06:58:50] Darmani: Ox0dea: I'm going to stay here
[06:58:51] eam: I mean, really, if you haven't become world famous by 25 probably best to just give up
[06:58:52] agent_white: Miss Frizzle would want you to dive in.
[06:58:53] Darmani: It's more comfortable
[06:59:01] Darmani: MISS FRIZZLE
[06:59:07] Darmani: You get brownie points for using that reference.
[06:59:11] agent_white: Take chances! Make mistakes! Get messy!
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[06:59:26] Darmani: Mr. Rogers would tell me he believes in me and that I can do it.
[06:59:38] eam: even the smallest mistake is the end of all things. Fear error, avoid everything
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[06:59:46] agent_white: Yeah well, Mr. Rogers' 'hope' doesn't make programs.
[06:59:47] domgetter: Darmani: You've already learned at least 3 things this evening
[06:59:58] domgetter: at this rate, you'll be a master in no time
[07:00:00] Darmani: domgetter: I have??
[07:00:05] Darmani: and what exactly were those
[07:00:09] agent_white: ACTION gives Darmani badge
[07:00:10] Darmani: I don't think I wrote them down.
[07:00:44] agent_white: keep. doing. koans. I think were them.
[07:00:52] Ox0dea: Darmani: You've learned that `Array.new.class` is `Array`, for starters. That's pretty important.
[07:01:03] domgetter: you learned about "assert equals"
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[07:01:17] domgetter: which shows up in almost every testing framework (even outside of ruby)
[07:01:27] agent_white: And... that... Matz is nice, so we are nice.
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[07:01:56] Darmani: Ox0dea: Any moron knows that. I'd be ashamed of myself if I came here without knowing basic terms.
[07:02:00] Darmani: jesus christ.
[07:02:07] agent_white: Darmani: Quit it.
[07:02:25] Ox0dea: Don't minimize your suffering.
[07:02:27] Ox0dea: Let it hurt.
[07:02:29] agent_white: Darmani: You _think_ you know that. It will sink in later.
[07:02:29] Ox0dea: It's medicine.
[07:02:52] Darmani: ACTION sighs
[07:03:01] Darmani: Well I'm going to go back to staring at Ruby Koans
[07:03:04] Darmani: and not being able to read them.
[07:03:14] agent_white: Darmani: As in, Ox0dea said "this is important". It's not in passing, and he chose to say it.
[07:03:25] domgetter: Darmani: Sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at it
[07:03:43] agent_white: domgetter: That's pretty math.
[07:03:49] domgetter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN43sCyEanA
[07:03:50] Darmani: agent_white: He is so wise, I want to be just like him one day.
[07:04:01] Darmani: ACTION stares @ Ox0dea in adoration.
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[07:04:38] agent_white: Darmani: Me too, actually. Being sarcastic will only make you kick yourself in the future when you understand what he meant.
[07:05:24] Darmani: agent_white: Forgive me, sarcasm is my way of showing affection.
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[07:05:40] Darmani: I do appreciate you and him though and all the people who are pushing me forward.
[07:06:01] domgetter: but how do we know THAT wasn't sarcastic?
[07:06:11] Darmani: Because I said so
[07:06:22] agent_white: domgetter: You gotta see the Breakfast Club!
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[07:06:54] Darmani: I do enjoy that movie.
[07:07:05] Darmani: maybe I should go watch that and then come back and program.
[07:07:19] agent_white: Nah quit it. Just go do the koans.
[07:07:20] domgetter: Darmani: or *maybe* you should keep programming
[07:07:24] domgetter: forever. and ever
[07:07:37] Darmani: jesus. Sounds like eternal damnation.
[07:07:42] Darmani: i'll pass.
[07:07:49] agent_white: domgetter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUHU8SNGMcY -- I read that in Bender's voice (guy in jean-jacket)
[07:07:52] Darmani: I need a girlfriend and other things too.
[07:07:56] domgetter: Here's the thing about programming. You don't choose to do it. It chooses you. And it has chosen you
[07:08:41] Darmani: brb bathroomm
[07:09:37] shevy: Darmani bathroom is often where you will have the best ideas
[07:09:48] shevy: like you can solve a problem that you are unable to solve when you sit before the computer
[07:09:52] shevy: other methods involve running
[07:10:03] domgetter: I often run to the bathroom
[07:10:13] domgetter: So I can solve 2 problems
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[07:12:17] shevy: still #funday here
[07:12:38] agent_white: shevy: I think you are the ruby funday pope
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[07:14:39] domgetter: I thought he was the "go make ruby gems!" pope
[07:14:48] shevy: agent_white today was very productive here, I think I collected three quotes already...
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[07:15:42] agent_white: shevy: You kept the peace on this planet? :)
[07:15:50] shevy: one from october last year
[07:15:52] shevy: <Erik____> Are you a seasoned programmer or young?
[07:15:52] shevy: <Zarthus> I program regardless of season
[07:16:14] shevy: agent_white pfft peace is so overrated, I am not a hippie!
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[07:16:26] agent_white: shevy: Well... I did!
[07:16:35] agent_white: This planet is very peaceful!
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[07:23:39] Darmani: When I became a counselor
[07:23:42] Darmani: I wanted to help people.
[07:23:47] flughafen: merry new years
[07:23:51] Darmani: But people need my help way too much T.T
[07:24:04] Darmani: flughafen: Happy New Years m8(:
[07:24:22] shevy: hey flughafen - new year, better flughafen!
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[07:25:22] Darmani: If I don't get something
[07:25:27] Darmani: Where am I supposed to look for the answer???
[07:25:38] Darmani: Does RubyKoans just expect you to know?
[07:26:49] flughafen: shevy: how were your holidays
[07:27:26] shevy: flughafen I dunno ... I had a very weird sleeping pattern
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[07:28:08] flughafen: ha. me too.
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[07:31:19] Darmani: I'm doing it.
[07:31:22] Darmani: I'm DOING IT
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[07:37:52] Reyshon: I'm tired of seeing crackers make everything racist. Tires is black because is a symbol of slavery. The tires is slaves to the cars and what color they is? They black. That's racist. \#blacklivesmatter
[07:38:56] shevy: Darmani doing what
[07:39:04] shevy: the koans?
[07:39:14] shevy: skip them and write something important!
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[07:39:48] Darmani: shevy: Now I should be doing something else??? D:
[07:39:53] Darmani: What is wrong with you people? T.T
[07:40:20] Darmani: I'm convinced all this is a sick joke designed to make people go insane.
[07:40:21] shevy: you just like the koans because you get the mission briefing
[07:40:23] Darmani: It's working.
[07:40:37] shevy: what is working
[07:40:45] Darmani: my madness
[07:40:49] Darmani: I can feel it taking over
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[07:41:04] Darmani: wait Shevy are you the guy who reads the picture books?
[07:41:06] Darmani: Are you that guy?
[07:42:34] Darmani: don't leave me
[07:43:46] domgetter: If you want a Ruby picture book, look up Why's Poignant Guide to Ruby
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[07:46:15] shevy: Darmani picture books?
[07:46:45] shevy: right now I am reading a chemistry book... it's boring to no ends
[07:47:16] domgetter: oooh, chemistry
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[07:50:07] Darmani: I was talking to someone who read picture books to his daugher...
[07:50:10] Darmani: I don't remember his name.
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[07:58:01] shevy: cro something
[07:58:05] shevy: nick starting with c
[07:58:07] shevy: I forgot it too
[07:58:12] shevy: a php convert
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[08:02:26] Ox0dea: logs $ ag 'picture books' | head -1 | cut -f2
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[08:03:00] Ox0dea: Some folks were trying to remember your name.
[08:03:31] choke: oh well, the whole conversation that I just read brings a song to my mind..
[08:03:38] choke: is it me.... you've been looking for....
[08:06:01] Darmani: oh choke!!
[08:06:04] Darmani: it was choke.
[08:06:07] Darmani: I remember.
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[08:06:52] Darmani: http://ideone.com/P3eWEp
[08:06:58] choke: when you can't remember my name, just keep in mind that your mind is "choking"
[08:07:01] Darmani: I'm still trying to figure out what this is supposed to be teaching me.
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[08:07:15] Darmani: choke: I want to keep that in mind... but it sounds dangerous. Lol
[08:07:32] choke: It is teaching you, that it's peanut butter jelly time of course.
[08:08:04] agent_white: Darmani: Where the...
[08:08:07] Darmani: that must be what it is lol
[08:08:10] agent_white: Darmani: What are you following. Link me.
[08:08:22] agent_white: also, wtf you doing using "and"
[08:08:34] Darmani: That's what the program did
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[08:08:59] agent_white: _why's guide isn't a picture book :(
[08:09:19] Darmani: ACTION sighs
[08:09:36] agent_white: Darmani: What have you learned? :)
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[08:09:46] Darmani: I'm serious.
[08:09:56] agent_white: You've been through rubymonk though you said.
[08:10:03] agent_white: And started rubykoans.
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[08:10:54] dwfait: What's the rationale behind 'bang' methods not being chainable (such as compact!, select!)?
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[08:12:37] dwfait: I mean, for me being able to chain it is more valuable than to know whether it had an effect or not
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[08:17:18] Darmani: agent_white:
[08:17:23] Darmani: Be honest with me.
[08:17:31] Darmani: Will doing these Ruby Koans really help me?
[08:17:34] Darmani: Because I don't see it.
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[08:21:45] Darmani: That's enough programming for one day
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[08:21:54] Darmani: You're all lovely human beings. Each one of you.
[08:21:57] Darmani: Goodnight<33
[08:22:02] agent_white: Darmani: Yes. Do them :)
[08:22:15] Darmani: okay I will. Tomorrow.
[08:22:26] Darmani: Goodnight<33
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[08:22:41] agent_white: Darmani: Same reason I'm bruting through K&R... question is "count words in a line". Takes more than 10+ lines to do. In ruby... 12 characters. But, I'm learning.
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[08:24:47] agent_white: dwfait: Why chain them if the final message is the modifier?
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[08:26:13] dwfait: agent_white: well yes, for compact it is usually the last of the chain, but it seems that all in place modifiers have a convention of returning nil if no changes made, such as select! versus select, which is often done early in a chain
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[08:28:20] dwfait: in which case you're either forced to give up the terseness of chaining, or use immutability which has a performance cost (in the case that you don't care or need immutability)
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[08:30:53] agent_white: >> x = "abc"; y = "abc"; x.chop.chop!; y.chop!.chop!; x == y
[08:30:55] ruboto: agent_white # => false (https://eval.in/496942)
[08:31:10] agent_white: >> x = "abc"; y = "abc"; a = x.chop.chop!; b = y.chop!.chop!; a == b
[08:31:12] ruboto: agent_white # => true (https://eval.in/496943)
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[08:34:32] dwfait: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.0/Hash.html#method-i-select-21
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[08:34:52] dwfait: "but returns nil if no changes were made."
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[08:35:08] dwfait: So it seems some bang! methods have the behaviour, some don't
[08:35:16] dwfait: just wondering what the underlying rationale is
[08:35:58] shevy: dwfait is .select not part of enumerable? or was it enumerator, I mix the two up
[08:36:30] shevy: dwfait often the bang methods will be faster; if you compare for a string: x = 'ABC'; x = x.downcase versus x = 'ABC'; x.downcase!
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[08:36:46] dwfait: It's defined on the hash class
[08:36:54] shevy: the second should be faster - and also uses fewer characters to write. but it can not as easily be used in method chaining such as x.downcase.bla.ble.blu
[08:37:06] dwfait: Yes, I get that - but whether it returns nil or self doesn't really enter into its speed or whether it duplicates the object or not
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[08:37:44] agent_white: >> [].select{} == [].select!{}
[08:37:45] ruboto: agent_white # => false (https://eval.in/496944)
[08:38:07] agent_white: >> [nil].select{} == [nil].select!{}
[08:38:08] ruboto: agent_white # => true (https://eval.in/496945)
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[08:38:34] dwfait: I'm asking because I implemented this: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/1184
[08:38:35] shevy: it is common to return nil for bang methods
[08:38:48] dwfait: and as per other hash methods I found and the example in the ticket, if unchanged it should return a nil
[08:38:55] dwfait: but it doesn't really feel natural to me
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[08:40:34] agent_white: shevy: Enumerable "bang" methods return nil on no change, others return the changed value?
[08:40:38] agent_white: ACTION shrugs
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[08:41:24] shevy: agent_white don't they always return nil? I am not sure of one that does not
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[08:41:27] agent_white: I'm still wondering about my example above.
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[08:42:03] kenken_: what is the best pace to lookup all domains that are available
[08:42:05] kenken_: i want all the tlds
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[08:43:31] shevy: agent_white .select seems to yield an array, I don't quite know why the nil is removed but it is probably documented
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[08:43:59] dwfait: agent_white: I can't seem to find any enumerable bang methods, could you point one out?
[08:44:30] agent_white: dwfait: Select?
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[08:45:00] dwfait: From what I can tell that's implemented on the hash class and not available on the enumerable module, but I could be wrong?
[08:45:09] shevy: ok so this http://pastie.org/10669030 is Array#select!
[08:45:11] agent_white: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.3/Enumerable.html#method-i-select
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[08:45:57] agent_white: dwfait: Hash class, Array class, Range class... any iterable list.
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[08:46:22] shevy: I assume that this line does something magical: RETURN_SIZED_ENUMERATOR(ary, 0, 0, ary_enum_length);
[08:46:36] agent_white: dwfait: Listen to shevy more than me though. I'm more intrigued by what I posted above then anything, now... and I'm an idiot. :D
[08:46:36] dwfait: that doesn't appear to be a bang version? from what I can tell, the non-bang versions are on the enumerable and then the bangs are on the class level
[08:47:01] shevy: now if I would know what RETURN_SIZED_ENUMERATOR does
[08:47:04] dwfait: RETURN_SIZED_ENUMERATOR(ary, 0, 0, ary_enum_length); is for when you don't pass a block, but the code inside is pretty magical to me still
[08:47:33] dwfait: I've had a brief look but there's a lot in the codebase I don't understand, like recursive #define's that don't seem like they should work
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[08:50:08] agent_white: Here be dragons
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[08:51:28] dwfait: I'm imagining it sets something up to interact with the VM, and not necessarily with the code there
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[08:54:39] shevy: C is scary
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[08:55:14] felixal: yeah I dressed up as a pointer on halloween and spooked everyone
[08:55:39] agent_white: >> "a".chop! << "b"
[08:55:40] ruboto: agent_white # => "b" (https://eval.in/496946)
[08:55:42] agent_white: >> "a".chop << "b"
[08:55:43] ruboto: agent_white # => "b" (https://eval.in/496947)
[08:56:16] agent_white: x = "x"; x.chop! << "y"; x
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[08:56:22] agent_white: >> x = "x"; x.chop! << "y"; x
[08:56:23] ruboto: agent_white # => "y" (https://eval.in/496948)
[08:56:27] agent_white: >> x = "x"; x.chop << "y"; x
[08:56:29] ruboto: agent_white # => "x" (https://eval.in/496950)
[08:57:48] shevy: yeah, I assume x.chop is an empty string, then 'y' is appended
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[08:58:43] dwfait: yeah, indeed it is. did you mean chomp?
[08:59:31] dwfait: >> "x".chomp << "y"
[08:59:32] ruboto: dwfait # => "xy" (https://eval.in/496951)
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[08:59:38] dwfait: >> "x".chomp! << "y"
[08:59:39] ruboto: dwfait # => undefined method `<<' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/496952)
[08:59:41] shevy: agent_white indeed, that is one that does not seem to return a nil
[09:00:15] dwfait: >> "".chop!
[09:00:16] ruboto: dwfait # => nil (https://eval.in/496953)
[09:01:38] agent_white: shevy: Aye. Same with with passing empty blocks to select/select! on arrays that aren't empty
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[09:01:51] agent_white: Though, empty arrays give that (self/nil)
[09:01:52] shevy: dwfait right but the variable x part
[09:02:14] shevy: I haven't quite understood your block example above
[09:02:24] shevy: I never saw an empty .select {} before either
[09:02:56] shevy: ruby code written by others can feel so alien!
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[09:03:17] dwfait: ah, just realised nil << "y" should raise
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[09:09:20] ruboto: agent_white # => "" (https://eval.in/496954)
[09:09:25] agent_white: >> !!nil.to_s
[09:09:26] ruboto: agent_white # => true (https://eval.in/496955)
[09:09:34] ruboto: agent_white # => false (https://eval.in/496956)
[09:10:24] agent_white: Yeah I don't think I should look at shevy's pasted code for "select!"... I'm just learning C. Looking at a language's vm's eval is not a good idea.
[09:12:00] agent_white: >> "".chop{}.chop!
[09:12:01] ruboto: agent_white # => nil (https://eval.in/496957)
[09:12:05] agent_white: >> "".chop!{}.chop
[09:12:06] ruboto: agent_white # => undefined method `chop' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/496958)
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[09:15:41] shevy: agent_white I wanna learn C too! properly... but I always ended up giving up, mostly out of boredom
[09:16:23] agent_white: shevy: I'm going through K&R as we speak :) Was told that "cruising through" is not allowed, so I'm making sure to do each and every exercise.
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[09:16:53] kenken_: is it true that the legal age for prostitution in venezuela is 14?
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[09:17:30] agent_white: I like how... it's what drives majority of languages out there, and is so simple. :)
[09:17:41] kenken_: is it true that the legal age for prostitution in venezuela is 14?
[09:17:49] agent_white: kenken_: Is there an echo in here?
[09:17:50] agent_white: kenken_: Is there an echo in here?
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[09:26:06] shevy: agent_white yeah but... so much of this is just a bit of ruby code and I am done!
[09:26:17] shevy: with C it's like you have to specify more
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[09:39:12] agent_white: shevy: True :) I just want to be a systems programmer someday... maybe. Or at least be able to read some linux kernel patches and understand what they mean.
[09:39:50] agent_white: Or at the very least, know that I have a language that is extremely portable (likely most portable in the world? ;P ) in my back pocket.
[09:40:08] agent_white: That. Or most importantly. To write a wrapper for ncurses that is actually nice to use in ruby.
[09:40:22] agent_white: Because every other language has a fancy TUI library... and Ruby. Well, we just wrap ncurses.
[09:41:41] agent_white: Well rather... not write a wrapper. Just write... a TUI library. A nice one. Mehbeh.
[09:42:24] shevy: oh god ncurses
[09:42:40] shevy: a ruby wrapper over ncurses would be nice
[09:43:23] agent_white: Yeah. Well we have... curses. Ncursesw. But they just re-inforce the shit that is ncurses. While Python has so many alternatives that make shit right (be it a wrapper or native).
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[09:43:40] dwfait: might be a fun project to learn C with
[09:43:43] agent_white: Thus. Learn ruby!
[09:43:45] dwfait: and still get to do ruby
[09:43:56] blub: whats wrong with curses
[09:44:10] dwfait: it's hard for ruby programmers to use :)
[09:45:30] shevy: blub it is so painful to use
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[09:46:57] agent_white: blub: You must be a masochist.
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[09:47:42] Haris: hello all
[09:47:57] Haris: how do I run ruby app with apache ? install Ruby Version Manager (RVM) ?
[09:48:06] Haris: as this ( https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-setup-a-rails-4-app-with-apache-and-passenger-on-centos-6 ) page says ?
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[09:51:56] Haris: guys, anyone around ?
[09:52:38] ruboto: Though inclusion was probably intended, not everyone relates to being "one of the guys". Maybe consider using "folks", "all", "y'all", or "everyone" instead?
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[09:55:35] Haris: folks, all, everyone, anyone around ?
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[09:58:44] agent_white: That factoid needs to be gone.
[09:59:06] kenken_: has anyone been?
[09:59:09] agent_white: Dwelling on indirect object pronouns and assuming they are offensive only feeds insensitivity.
[09:59:09] kenken_: i just bought a first class ticket to caracas
[09:59:26] yorickpeterse: Haris: generally people will reply whenever they can, no reply means either nobody has a good answer or nobody is around
[09:59:27] agent_white: Disgusting, it is.
[09:59:42] yorickpeterse: ?offtopic kenken_
[09:59:43] ruboto: kenken_, this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!
[09:59:50] shevy: Haris first stop would be to get ruby to run on your system
[09:59:54] shevy: erm, *first step
[10:00:06] agent_white: blub: I'd appreciate it if you don't feed the use of it.
[10:00:09] Haris: yep. will wait
[10:00:10] Haris: I'v installed ruby.
[10:00:11] kenken_: i'm going on a trip to have sex with 14 year old women
[10:00:20] kenken_: i'll be back on the 28th
[10:00:31] shevy: Haris rails too? and both works? you can test via the webrick server as far as I know
[10:00:34] Haris: 14 yr old are now considered women ?
[10:00:40] kenken_: in venezuela
[10:00:41] shevy: can someone get rid of kenken_
[10:00:45] Haris: how to install rails on centos
[10:00:49] kenken_: and 13 are considered women if you're jewish
[10:00:53] Haris: ACTION yum searches for rails
[10:00:53] kenken_: i'm jewish
[10:00:57] blub: agent_white: oh
[10:01:08] kenken_: please be sensitive of people's religions too
[10:01:13] agent_white: blub: Thank you.
[10:01:24] Haris: I see .. o_O
[10:01:24] shevy: Haris I would not trust the packages on centos too much... for typical gems, "gem install rails" should suffice. does for me at least but I don't use centos
[10:02:00] shevy: I switched from apache to lighttpd after they changed their config format
[10:02:11] shevy: I was too lazy to want to re-read apache stuff :(
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[10:04:26] ruboto: To call for ops use the !ops command.
[10:04:31] ruboto: fflush, apeiros, banisterfiend, seanstickle, Mon_Ouie, zzak, Radar, Havenn, jhass, sevenseacat, miah, workmad3, Coraline, drbrain, zenspider, slyphon, rubyhacker1, Aria, ljarvis, baweaver, Adaedra
[10:05:20] kenken_: i'm going on a first class trip to caracas to have sex with 14 year old women
[10:05:44] livcd: yeah yeah you told us
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[10:05:54] jhass: !ban kenken_ !T 1w troll
[10:05:58] ChanServ: +b kenken_!*@*
[10:05:58] ChanServ: ChanServ kicked kenken_: troll
[10:06:02] jhass: yorickpeterse: ty
[10:06:26] agent_white: jhass: What's the deal with "?guys"
[10:06:45] jhass: ?offtopic
[10:06:46] ruboto: this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!
[10:08:15] yorickpeterse: justice has been served
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[10:12:09] shevy: this time - but they will be back!
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[10:15:08] Radar: yorickpeterse: kenken_?
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[10:20:03] yorickpeterse: Radar: jhass already dealt with it
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[12:02:56] jackcom: shevy: what are you doing?
[12:03:17] jackcom: Volumes increase more than doubled compared to yesterday <?????? you can edit it for me?
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[12:04:32] jackcom: Volumes increase more than doubled compared to yesterday <????????? who can edit it for me? Ox0dea ?
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[12:06:27] jackcom: Volumes increase more than doubled compared to yesterday <?????? this statement is correct? everybody?
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[12:08:31] jackcom: excellent ruby programmer
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[12:19:01] cold_zero: Hi there. I new to Ruby and I've found piece of code that I don't familiar with and I haven't found any reasonable explanation of what it does. Here is it Class Person ; extend Forwardable ; end
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[12:19:10] cold_zero: what this "extend" does ?
[12:19:36] jackcom: inherit cold_zero
[12:19:50] Mon_Ouie: extend means that the instance methods defined in the Forwardable module are now available as class methods in the Person class
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[12:20:02] norc: cold_zero: extend applies to the targets singleton class, include to the class directly.
[12:20:20] Mon_Ouie: (it is similar to calling `include' from the class's singleton class)
[12:20:46] norc: ACTION refuses to use "instance method" and "class method" in Ruby, since only classes can have methods...
[12:21:07] cold_zero: so, let me say in my own words. All instance methods from "Forwardable" now in "Person" class as class methods ?
[12:21:18] cold_zero: is it correct ?
[12:21:39] cold_zero: ok and what the point of this ?
[12:21:51] cold_zero: what benefit does this gave to me ?
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[12:22:13] norc: cold_zero: Oh I forgot. All of this is not really true for the majority of rails code, since they deeply mess around with included?
[12:22:41] norc: cold_zero: They provide you with Mixin facility, the strongest and most useful feature of Ruby. :-)
[12:22:44] Mon_Ouie: It gives you the benefits that you can??? call those methods
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[12:24:32] cold_zero: ok, so I guess if I would compare this approach with inheritance, then this approach allows me to include methods from more than one class
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[12:24:35] norc: cold_zero: There is also Module#prepend by the way, which is even fancier. But you probably want to understand how Ruby dispatches methods before really using this. :)
[12:24:35] cold_zero: is it correct ?
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[12:24:57] norc: cold_zero: Indeed. And across multiple classes too.
[12:24:59] Mon_Ouie: from more than one module, not class
[12:25:31] cold_zero: you mean I can use only modules and not classes ?
[12:25:47] Mon_Ouie: You can only include/extend/prepend a module and not a class
[12:26:18] cold_zero: I can only inherit from class. Is it correct ?
[12:26:21] Mon_Ouie: You can include/extend/prepend into a class or a module, but what you include/extend/prepend must be a module and can't be a class
[12:26:50] Mon_Ouie: Wait, do you mean "inherit from a class"?
[12:26:59] norc: cold_zero: That is also correct.
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[12:27:11] norc: >> class Foo; end; class Bar; include Foo; end
[12:27:13] ruboto: norc # => wrong argument type Class (expected Module) (TypeError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497040)
[12:27:18] norc: >> module Foo; end; class Bar < Foo; end
[12:27:19] ruboto: norc # => superclass must be a Class (Module given) (TypeError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497041)
[12:27:59] cold_zero: I meant to inherit from some particular class not class "Class"
[12:28:31] norc: That actually made me wonder...
[12:28:35] norc: >> class Foo < Class; end
[12:28:36] ruboto: norc # => can't make subclass of Class (TypeError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497042)
[12:28:56] norc: Not that I have any particular reason for doing this...
[12:29:38] Mon_Ouie: It would make sense for Struct to be a subclass of Class, since Struct.new returns a class
[12:29:51] cold_zero: I think it now have much more sense for me, thank you guys :-)
[12:29:55] norc: >> Struct.ancestors
[12:29:56] ruboto: norc # => [Struct, Enumerable, Object, Kernel, BasicObject] (https://eval.in/497045)
[12:30:10] norc: Mon_Ouie: ostruct too then I guess
[12:30:39] norc: Mon_Ouie: Mind my asking, aren't you one of the yy gurus of cruby around here?
[12:30:44] norc: Or am I confusing you with someone else
[12:31:02] Mon_Ouie: OpenStruct.new doesn't return a class, it returns an object that behaves like a hash but can be accessed using regular getters/setters
[12:31:18] Mon_Ouie: Probably confusing me for someone else
[12:31:44] norc: Hard to find people who are knowledged about the parser in here. :(
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[12:33:16] shevy: that is because people here are solving real problems
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[12:33:38] shevy: and that you do not speak japanese!
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[12:35:03] cold_zero: can I ask a question about "Forwardable" module. Have you used it? If so what is the usual use case scenario for it ?
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[12:36:10] apeiros: cold_zero: you can use it instead of subclassing. usually recommended when you'd want to subclass a class you don't own.
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[12:37:22] norc: cold_zero: I think one of the most powerful examples in Ruby is Enumerable.
[12:38:57] norc: Which is by default included into some classes like Array or Hash for example. But you can create your own class, and make it Enumerable too. You just need to provide some basic methods for it to work.
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[12:39:05] apeiros: norc: the person with the most knowledge about the parser I know of (short of those developing it) is probably whitequark. He's quite certainly online, but sadly no longer frequenting #ruby.
[12:39:37] cold_zero: norc: oh this is what you mean
[12:39:52] norc: apeiros: Oh, is that the owner of this website? http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/source/parse.y
[12:40:35] norc: Neat. Well it looks like I have to start learning Bison then, but its fine.
[12:41:33] norc: Shift and reduce, how hard can it be.
[12:43:51] cold_zero: I'm little bit confused. Back to "extend", what the difference between "include" and "extend" both of them kinda do same job
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[12:47:13] Mon_Ouie: "extend" makes the module's instance methods available as class methods, "include" makes them available as instance methods
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[12:48:03] norc: cold_zero: They do the same but operate on different things under the hood, so the differentiation is just syntactic sugar.
[12:48:18] apeiros: class Foo; extend Bar; end # <-- is almost the same as --> class Foo; class << self; include Bar; end; end
[12:48:23] norc: apeiros: Almost?
[12:48:29] Mon_Ouie: The extended/included hook
[12:48:35] apeiros: norc: triggers different hooks
[12:48:43] norc: Well. Aside from that of course.
[12:48:48] cold_zero: triggers hooks
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[12:48:57] apeiros: aside from that I think they do the same
[12:48:58] cold_zero: can you say more about this ?
[12:49:21] norc: apeiros: Ah well, time to look at the source code again. :)
[12:49:25] apeiros: class Foo; include Bar; end # calls Bar.included(Foo)
[12:49:35] apeiros: class Foo; extend Bar; end # calls Bar.extended(Foo)
[12:49:58] apeiros: norc: I'm interested in your findings :)
[12:53:12] gregf_: >> module Foo; def bar msg=nil; puts "Bar " + (msg.nil? ? "": msg);end;end; class Bar; include Foo;end;class Baz; extend Foo;end; Bar.new.bar("include"); Baz.bar("extend") # cold_zero ^^ 'what apeiros said'
[12:53:13] ruboto: gregf_ # => Bar include ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497052)
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[12:55:00] cold_zero: ok, thank you. Now it's clear
[12:55:10] cold_zero: thank you for help
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[12:59:02] norc: apeiros: They are identical except for the callback, and the fact that extend operators on the targets singleton class.
[12:59:21] apeiros: norc: thanks for the confirmation :D
[12:59:25] norc: (Extend ends up calling rb_include_module(rb_singleton_class(obj), module)), aside from that the wrapper methods are the same.
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[13:00:09] norc: apeiros: Well, turns out that browsing the source code is the most reliable way to get information about how ruby behaves. :-)
[13:01:44] apeiros: norc: in some cases I also found it to be a quite time consuming way :-/
[13:02:34] norc: apeiros: I think things would be much easier if all the obscure optimized functions had at least some code comments. :-)
[13:02:54] apeiros: norc: indeed
[13:02:56] norc: Trying to figure out what happens in string.c is not fun.
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[13:21:18] gregf_: >> module Foo; def bar; puts "Bar";end; def self.included klass; klass.extend(Baz);end; module Baz; def quux;puts "Quux";end;end;end;class Quux; include Foo;end;Quux.new.bar;Quux.quux
[13:21:19] ruboto: gregf_ # => Bar ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497058)
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[13:27:09] norc: gregf_: Just sometimes using eval.in directly with properly indented code is helpful. :-P
[13:27:57] domgetter: norc: Here you go: https://eval.in/497060
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[13:28:54] Ox0dea: Nobody told dfwait he could chain bang methods with #tap. :/
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[13:29:40] norc: gregf_: Gotcha thanks.
[13:29:43] norc: Ox0dea: o/
[13:30:01] Ox0dea: norc: What's this about string.c?
[13:30:27] Ox0dea: Did you find the secret to making String#expand a one-liner?
[13:30:29] norc: I figuratively stumbled over the contents of that file. Many times.
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[13:31:02] norc: But then again, this might have something to do with C being absolutely a PITA to do any string work in.
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[13:37:06] dwfait: Ox0dea: indeed you can use tap, but again, there you lose terseness.
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[13:37:32] dwfait: I'm not looking for a way to accomplish anything in particular, just pondering the design-decision of making bang methods not chainable
[13:38:02] dwfait: maybe we need another class of methods which are in-place and chainable
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[13:39:31] apeiros: the design decision probably went something like this: if you modify in place, the return value is of little use, and the next best use for the rv is to observe whether the object changed
[13:39:31] Ox0dea: dwfait: Their not being chainable is a side effect of their much more useful and intended purpose.
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[13:40:15] norc: dwfait: You asked about have_func a couple days ago. The answer is that only those functions exposed with #pragma GCC visibility are available with that function.
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[13:40:39] norc: As such rb_thread_fd_select (I believe you asked about that) shouldn't be available.
[13:41:01] Ox0dea: That bang methods return `nil` when they might've made some change but didn't provides greater information density at absolutely no cost.
[13:41:08] Ox0dea: Other than, of course, the loss of chainability.
[13:41:18] Ox0dea: But there's #tap. Everybody wins.
[13:41:44] Ox0dea: norc: But it's available for me?
[13:41:48] dwfait: re: chaining, fair enough.
[13:41:55] norc: Ox0dea: Huh?
[13:42:07] apeiros: Ox0dea: personally I'd prefer if they changed the method signature to either return true/false or always return self, though.
[13:42:14] dwfait: norc: I ended up upgrading to OS X 10.11 and it resolved the issue. Don't know why.
[13:42:22] apeiros: their sometimes returning self is a great source of bugs :-/
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[13:43:15] dwfait: But from my digging, mkmf.rb generates a program which consumes the function you're trying to check, and if it links successfully we assume it's there, if there's an error then it's not
[13:43:31] dwfait: and AFAIK rb_thread_fd_select should be available from 1.9 upwards
[13:43:33] Ox0dea: norc: have_func('rb_thread_fd_select') # => true for me.
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[13:44:41] Ox0dea: It's very strange that dwfait couldn't get that result.
[13:45:04] Ox0dea: I couldn't find anything particularly special about that function in the source tree, but there's gotta be something?
[13:45:30] dwfait: It is strange. Seemed to be an issue of it trying to link to one of OS Xs Frameworks which didn't like being linked against
[13:45:40] dwfait: It was an environment issue with my machine
[13:45:51] Ox0dea: I suppose that'd have to be it.
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[13:46:01] dwfait: that only reared itself on that particular function check, for some odd reason
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[13:48:52] norc: Ox0dea: Strangely enough it returns false for me too.
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[13:49:07] norc: Ox0dea: And naively I would even expect it to.
[13:49:20] Ox0dea: My box is the weirdo.
[13:49:21] abkabkabk: ruby fn for extracting two things? line.match('asdf (\w+) two: (\w+)').join(' ') ? or? i just wanna print the two capture grps
[13:49:43] apeiros: abkabkabk: .captures after the .match
[13:50:03] apeiros: may have to test for nil first (whether it matched at all)
[13:50:16] norc: Ox0dea: Well, honestly this is one of these parts that I really don't want to use.
[13:50:34] Ox0dea: norc: Linker headaches are the best!
[13:51:05] Ox0dea: That's `gold`, Jerry!
[13:51:11] norc: Ox0dea: Best I ever had was trying to statically link glibc into Qt. (I succeeded eventually).
[13:51:35] Ox0dea: Why not a smaller libc for that?
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[13:51:44] norc: Because Qt has a hard dependency on it for some reason.
[13:52:05] norc: Or had at the time of the problem anyway.
[13:52:30] abkabkabk: not working
[13:52:35] dwfait: norc: interesting. Does gem install eventmachine work for you?
[13:52:43] abkabkabk: is this valid line~/someregexp/
[13:52:57] ruboto: Why don't you try it and see for yourself?
[13:53:21] norc: dwfait: Ill have to check at home, since there I have the machine that returns false on it. On my Ruby version on OSX 10.10.4 it works for sure.
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[13:55:33] Ox0dea: abkabkabk: That should be `line =~ /rx/`.
[13:56:48] Ox0dea: That'll give you a MatchData object that you could assign to a variable for subsequent querying.
[13:56:59] Ox0dea: Or you could just use $1, $2... to refer to the captures.
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[13:58:15] abkabkabk: working now
[13:58:22] Ox0dea: Never mind about the MatchData object; that's only for #match... well, all right.
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[13:59:56] norc: Ox0dea: http://www.akkadia.org/drepper/no_static_linking.html -- that article alone shows how much of an ego some people on this planet have...
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[14:00:29] norc: It's basically "We just know whats best for you, so we make sure you cannot do it any other way".
[14:00:41] domgetter: >> m = "John Smith".match(/^(?<first>\w+)\s(?<last>\w+)$/); m[:last]
[14:00:42] ruboto: domgetter # => "Smith" (https://eval.in/497068)
[14:00:54] domgetter: mmmm named groups
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[14:02:55] Ox0dea: >> /(?<omg>\w+)/ =~ 'wtf'; omg # domgetter
[14:02:56] ruboto: Ox0dea # => "wtf" (https://eval.in/497073)
[14:03:22] domgetter: ooooh, I didn't know it set local variables with +~
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[14:03:40] dwfait: where's the "considered harmful considered harmful" article when you need it
[14:03:45] ljarvis: only Regexp =~ not String =~
[14:03:59] dstarh: has joined #ruby
[14:04:31] domgetter: Using Regex to Set Local Vars Considered Harmful
[14:04:33] apeiros: domgetter: only under very specific circumstances
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[14:05:14] apeiros: regex must be lhs, must not contain interpolation, must use =~
[14:05:23] _Tariq: I am unable to install any new gems, because whenever I try to do so, I get an error
[14:05:47] _Tariq: "Gem::RemoteFetcher::FetchError: Errno::ECONNREFUSED: Connection refused - connect(2) for "rubygems.global.ssl.fastly.net" port 443 (https://rubygems.org/gems/rspec-support-3.2.0.gem)"
[14:05:59] _Tariq: Is this a problem with rubygems specifically or a problem with Comcast?
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[14:06:28] Ox0dea: _Tariq: It's an SSL problem.
[14:06:36] Ox0dea: Could have all sorts of root causes.
[14:06:44] domgetter: apeiros: ah okay. cool, thanks :)
[14:07:07] _Tariq: So let me try to reset the SSL then
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[14:08:03] ddv: reset ssl? :p
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[14:10:44] Ox0dea: norc: Found a relevant bug: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10134
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[14:12:20] Ox0dea: norc: Unfettered freedom could never work in practice, and it doesn't even really work in principle.
[14:12:28] Ox0dea: ACTION ducks
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[14:17:23] _Tariq: Even switching from https:// to http:// doesn't "resolve" the issue
[14:17:27] jamw: has joined #ruby
[14:17:29] _Tariq: so I don't actually think it could be an SSL issue
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[14:20:00] Ox0dea: $ curl -I rubygems.org
[14:20:02] Ox0dea: HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
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[14:20:19] Ox0dea: _Tariq: http://rubygems.org basically "becomes" https://rubygems.org.
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[14:20:47] _Tariq: Well that sounds terrible.
[14:20:52] domgetter: _Tariq: what OS are you on?
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[14:21:13] _Tariq: I don't really know how to deal with SSL configuration
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[14:21:54] _Tariq: That doesn't help.
[14:22:01] Ox0dea: It might.
[14:22:10] domgetter: _Tariq: It might be a DNS issue: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25583938/gem-install-rails-fails-with-dns-error
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[14:23:38] norc: Ox0dea: The status change on the bug is hilarious.
[14:23:52] Ox0dea: _Tariq: What's your browser do if you try to visit https://rubygems.global.ssl.fastly.net?
[14:24:09] _Tariq: "Safari can't connect to server"
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[14:24:40] Ox0dea: Find fire.
[14:24:51] Ox0dea: Or make it, if'n you're suitable equipped.
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[14:25:35] _Tariq: domgetter: I followed instructions there, but nothing seems to have changed
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[14:25:59] domgetter: _Tariq: what gem are you trying to install?
[14:26:00] _Tariq: And they do give me the correct URI, not "your-dns-need-immediate-attention"
[14:26:11] _Tariq: domgetter: All the gems in my Gemfile
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[14:26:51] domgetter: Are you using bundle install?
[14:26:51] Ox0dea: The problem is that _Tariq's SSL certificate configuration has gone wonky, and RubyGems doesn't wanna let him connect insecurely.
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[14:27:02] Ox0dea: Probably.
[14:27:02] _Tariq: domgetter: Yes.
[14:27:06] domgetter: does it work if you use gem install gemname directly?
[14:27:11] domgetter: (just to see if one works)
[14:27:17] Ox0dea: domgetter: ?
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[14:27:32] _Tariq: ERROR: While executing gem ... (Gem::RemoteFetcher::FetchError)
[14:27:33] domgetter: then yea I agree with Ox0dea that you need a new cert
[14:27:33] _Tariq: Errno::ECONNREFUSED: Connection refused - connect(2) for "rubygems.global.ssl.fastly.net" port 443 (https://api.rubygems.org/quick/Marshal.4.8/minitest-5.5.1.gemspec.rz)
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[14:27:39] _Tariq: But how do I get a new cert?
[14:27:52] _Tariq: I thought you 'burn it with fire' was a joke
[14:27:58] _Tariq: not like, a possible command
[14:28:00] Ox0dea: Dual-boot Linux for those occasions when you want shit to function correctly?
[14:28:03] Ox0dea: (Sorry. <3)
[14:28:15] _Tariq: I have Linux on another machine
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[14:28:42] _Tariq: So I guess I could transfer my work over there in case I'm stuck with this SSL cert forver
[14:29:09] norc: Ox0dea: People still do that? I just dished out some money for 16GB of ram to have 4-5 VMs running concurrently for every flavor Im working with... :-)
[14:29:10] domgetter: _Tariq: what version of rubygems is installed?
[14:29:27] Ox0dea: norc: A wontfix from the creature itself would've been of considerable hilarity.
[14:29:29] domgetter: _Tariq: run gem -v to find out
[14:29:36] norc: Ox0dea: Heh.
[14:29:38] _Tariq: domgetter: 2.4.6
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[14:30:37] norc: Ox0dea: Or a worksforme. :-)
[14:30:50] denym_: Hey there, when I build ruby from source how can i skip the doc generation?
[14:30:51] domgetter: _Tariq: can you `gem update --system`
[14:30:56] Ox0dea: domgetter: --no-doc
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[14:30:59] Ox0dea: denym_: ^
[14:31:10] _Tariq: Connection refused, domgetter.
[14:31:11] domgetter: --no-rdoc --no-ri
[14:31:18] Ox0dea: Oh... Ruby itself, not gems.
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[14:33:33] denym_: Ox0dea: like "./configure; make install --no-doc" ?
[14:33:36] norc: Is there a reason why referencing an unused instance variable returns nil?
[14:34:03] _Tariq: nil means "nothing"
[14:34:08] _Tariq: There's nothing in that variable
[14:34:14] domgetter: _Tariq: are you using rvm ?
[14:34:21] Ox0dea: denym_: No, not quite, sorry.
[14:34:30] _Tariq: domgetter: Yes
[14:34:41] _Tariq: "rvm 1.26.11 (latest)"
[14:34:50] norc: _Tariq: Except technically that variable does not even exist in the ivar table.
[14:34:55] norc: It should cause an exception.
[14:35:08] norc: Or cause Ruby to somehow explode in a visually pleasing fashion.
[14:35:08] apeiros: norc: probable reason was modules. but I'd prefer an exception or explicit initializers.
[14:35:12] domgetter: _Tariq: http://railsapps.github.io/openssl-certificate-verify-failed.html
[14:35:27] domgetter: _Tariq: specifically the section titled "Use RVM to Fix SSL Certificates"
[14:36:21] Ox0dea: denym_: `make install-nodoc`
[14:36:33] _Tariq: They say they are already up to date
[14:36:43] _Tariq: bundle install
[14:36:46] domgetter: _Tariq: also, OSX comes with a Ruby installed, so it's possible that the OS is trying to use that one. what does `which ruby` and `which rubygems` display? If it's not an rvm-looking thing, then you might need to uninstall your stock ruby
[14:37:11] Ox0dea: Sounds dangerous.
[14:37:17] _Tariq: which ruby = "/Users/tariqali/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.2.1/bin/ruby"
[14:37:26] norc: apeiros: How are modules a probable reason here? Making assumptions about the internal state of a class is a bad idea to begin with. Suppression exceptions in case they are not defined yet is even worse.
[14:37:30] _Tariq: which rubygems = rubygems not found
[14:37:37] _Tariq: The problem started when for some reason all my gems went away
[14:37:43] domgetter: oops, is it `which gem` ?
[14:38:12] domgetter: one sec, lemme get my laptop
[14:38:15] _Tariq: I get this python code
[14:38:42] _Tariq: er, not python, but some type of script nevertheless
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[14:39:47] norc: apeiros: The only reason I can see is that for non instance variables, Ruby does not even know whether it was a function or a local variable.
[14:40:18] norc: In which case NameError is the only reasonable option.
[14:40:31] apeiros: norc: but that'd be the reason why lvars don't auto-vivify, not why ivars do ;-)
[14:40:34] denym_: Ox0dea: thanks I giv e that a try, you got any source on this?
[14:41:25] domgetter: _Tariq: what does `which gem` display?
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[14:41:44] domgetter: it should be "/Users/tariqali/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.2.1/bin/gem"
[14:42:06] _Tariq: https://gist.github.com/tra38/da6954ba8a62041d4973
[14:42:32] _Tariq: This is what which gem displays
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[14:42:50] domgetter: That doesn't look right at all to me, but I've never owned a mac, so I can't say.
[14:42:57] Ox0dea: denym_: Er, my source is... the source.
[14:43:00] Ox0dea: Use the source, Luke!
[14:43:47] _Tariq: apeiros: My guess that all variables are pointers to something, but you have an instance variable that points to nothing, and since nil is a standin for nothing, just return nil
[14:43:52] domgetter: _Tariq: do you have a folder called "/Users/tariqali/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.2.1/bin/gem" ?
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[14:44:16] ch33s3c4k3: If I have a dictionary of values, what it the best way of creating a version that contains all possible combinations of those values with nulls among them. [a => null, b => null], [a => 1, b => null], [a => 1, b => 1], [a => null, b => 1] (only I have a lot more values)
[14:44:21] denym_: Ox0dea: I will thanks again :)
[14:44:38] _Tariq: domgetter: Yes, I do have it
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[14:45:29] domgetter: _Tariq: it seems like the problem is that when you try to install gems, it's not using that directory. I can't help much further than that, since I don't know macs, though
[14:46:38] domgetter: _Tariq: this *might* help though: https://rvm.io/rubies/rubygems
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[14:49:55] _Tariq: I'm looking at it domgetter
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[14:50:48] Ox0dea: ch33s3c4k3: Could you clarify? I think you want #product.
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[14:51:50] Ox0dea: >> [(foo rescue $!.class), @foo] # _Tariq: This is the inconsistency that rustles norc's jimmies.
[14:51:51] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [NameError, nil] (https://eval.in/497095)
[14:52:08] _Tariq: Ox0dea: Yeah this seems to rustles my feathers too
[14:52:14] _Tariq: What does that code even mean?
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[14:55:32] ch33s3c4k3: Ox0dea: I will take a look at product. What I want is to have a full list of values populated in my dictionary. I then want to create every possible dictionary variation of that hash that has nulls. All nulls, nulls in just each value... every possible combination of the fully populated hash and null values.
[14:56:17] Ox0dea: ch33s3c4k3: Interesting.
[14:56:30] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: may I ask why you want to do that?
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[14:57:13] ch33s3c4k3: I have to pass a set of data into a system to test that the workflow behind it runs without error. I want to make sure that all possible combinations of data and no data are checked
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[14:58:15] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: how many values will there be at a maximum?
[14:58:42] ruboto: domgetter # => 1099511627776 (https://eval.in/497104)
[14:59:04] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: you're trying to do something that is computationally impractical
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[15:00:30] ch33s3c4k3: Oh I have no doubt about that. I would just like to be able to cover myself and say "I provided all possible iterations and it handled them all" - I understand that doesn't mean it's perfect but would be nice. Can you think of any nice alternatives?
[15:00:35] Ox0dea: ch33s3c4k3: https://eval.in/497109
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[15:00:50] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: when you say 40, you mean that the hash has 40 keys in it, right? like {a: 1, b: 2, c: 3, ... last: 40} ?
[15:02:08] Ox0dea: Well, you really do have 2^40 different permutations, then.
[15:02:09] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: you're asking to be able to run a loop 1,099,511,627,776 (over 1 trillion times)
[15:02:26] Ox0dea: Not that that can't be done, mind.
[15:03:19] ch33s3c4k3: Is that all... :D
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[15:04:39] ch33s3c4k3: That is a crazy amount. While I could write some code to create those permutations... having the workflow handle that many runs is not going to work. The system I am feeding this into is slow and running with a worker count of 1 (with a pause every [small number] of seconds). I will try and come up with a list of key combinations of values.
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[15:04:47] domgetter: multiplying 1 by 2 ten million times on my machine takes a half a second. 1 trillion is one hundred thousand times this
[15:05:07] Ox0dea: domgetter: Huh?
[15:05:26] domgetter: it would take 13 hours to multiply 1 by 2 on my machine (in ruby) 1 trillion times
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[15:05:38] Ox0dea: notbad.jpg
[15:05:40] _Tariq: I say do it
[15:05:44] _Tariq: I mean, think about it.
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[15:05:49] _Tariq: If you try to wait for a better techinque
[15:05:51] _Tariq: you may not find it
[15:05:56] _Tariq: But if you spend the 13 hours now
[15:06:02] _Tariq: you'll get your task completed.
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[15:06:19] domgetter: I'm assuming that the underlying calculation is more cpu intensive than doing 1*2
[15:06:39] ch33s3c4k3: It's not the creating data that I'm concerned about too much. Running that many permutations through the workflow won't be completed for several millenia at the speed that thing works :D
[15:07:00] _Tariq: Then just only choose a few variations
[15:07:05] _Tariq: How about 100 different variations?
[15:07:11] domgetter: oh yea I forgot about the trillion hashes you need to make in memory
[15:07:20] Ox0dea: _Tariq: That's turning testing back into guesswork.
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[15:07:42] _Tariq: 100 random variations
[15:07:45] _Tariq: Or maybe 1000 variations
[15:07:49] _Tariq: The point isn't that you're guessing
[15:07:53] ch33s3c4k3: I could leave this thing spitting out values as a fuzz test in the background...
[15:08:06] _Tariq: You want to take a statistically representative sample
[15:08:14] _Tariq: of these possible hash values
[15:08:29] _Tariq: and use that to make general conclusions about the whole population
[15:08:31] _Tariq: and if there
[15:08:43] _Tariq: is an error later on, you can add that to the test
[15:08:51] Ox0dea: But at what cost?
[15:09:06] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: I would tone back the test cases to each key pointing to nil once
[15:09:07] _Tariq: The cost being that you're going to have to know stats
[15:09:24] _Tariq: Understand frequentist versus Bayesian arguments, etc.
[15:09:28] _Tariq: But I think that's a small cost to pay.
[15:09:37] _Tariq: The "Law of Large Numbers" are on your side.
[15:09:42] ch33s3c4k3: I will create 42 tests. Everything. Nothing. A set of data with null in each possible value. I will then fuzz the rest as a background process. How does that sound?
[15:09:48] domgetter: so like {a: nil, b: 2, c: 3}, {a: 1, b: nil, c: 3}, and {a: 1, b: 2, c: nil} for a hash of 3 key value paris
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[15:10:04] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: that sounds much more reasonable
[15:10:37] domgetter: but I would not try to test every possible combination of nil values. but that's just me I guess
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[15:11:37] ch33s3c4k3: It might be overkill... even then though, it doesn't cover everything right? *a value* and nil are not the only things that could pass into the workflow.
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[15:12:22] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: that's right, and every possible combination of every possible value represents a factorial calculation
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[15:12:34] ch33s3c4k3: I will just leave a background process spitting out values and notify the admin team any time it trying to push something through and fails. It's more than likely they'll see the failure and say "obviously THAT fails...." and I can ignore it moving forward.
[15:12:49] domgetter: actually, I think it's worse than factorial
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[15:13:08] domgetter: 40**40 > 40!
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[15:14:41] ch33s3c4k3: I have heard of a tribe of people that don't count past 3. I will stick with them and say 1, 2, 3... more than 3. If it's "more than three", I'm out.
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[15:16:25] canton7: 40^40 is *large*. As in, assuming a million tests a second, you'll cover just 1/10^50 of the search space in 100 years
[15:17:10] canton7: ch33s3c4k3, don't forget Terry Pratchett's trolls: "one, two, many, lots"
[15:17:10] ch33s3c4k3: If Ruby can't handle the task... maybe I'll find a language that can :D
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[15:18:20] ch33s3c4k3: I've never read any Terry Pratchett. I always hear good things from friends who I can trust... maybe I should give it a go.
[15:18:50] ch33s3c4k3: Thanks for the pointers though folks, it's much appreciated
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[15:20:33] tockitj: 40*40 - is so large that it is not even question of time anymore
[15:20:34] Ox0dea: ch33s3c4k3: *whom
[15:20:42] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 40 (https://eval.in/497162)
[15:20:59] Ox0dea: tockitj: I think you dropped this: *
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[15:21:22] tockitj: sun throughout its life cycle does not have enough energy to iterate memory through 40**40 states
[15:21:42] _Tariq: And besides, don't we want to avoid writing too many tests
[15:21:48] _Tariq: The more tests you write, the more you have to maintain them
[15:22:09] domgetter: _Tariq: yea but, job security ;0
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[15:22:35] _Tariq: I've been trying to explore mutation testing, which seems very interesting
[15:22:50] _Tariq: although they have been spitting out equally valid (and better stylized) Ruby code
[15:22:54] Ox0dea: >> (40 ** 40).size
[15:22:55] _Tariq: instead of actual errors
[15:22:55] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 27 (https://eval.in/497163)
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[15:23:03] Ox0dea: That's puny.
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[15:24:15] domgetter: >> (40**40).to_s.length
[15:24:16] ruboto: domgetter # => 65 (https://eval.in/497164)
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[15:24:47] Ox0dea: I confess to having used Fixnum#size as bait.
[15:24:54] Ox0dea: And I would've gotten away with it too.
[15:25:01] tockitj: >> Math.log2(40**40)
[15:25:02] ruboto: tockitj # => 212.8771237954945 (https://eval.in/497165)
[15:25:06] eam: what does that even mean "the sun does not have enough energy to iterate through 40**40 states"
[15:25:14] Ox0dea: >> (40 ** 40).bit_length
[15:25:15] ruboto: Ox0dea # => 213 (https://eval.in/497166)
[15:25:21] ch33s3c4k3: Ox0dea: I have finally looked into when to use who and whom... you learn something new every day.
[15:25:30] Ox0dea: eam: Science things.
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[15:25:36] domgetter: eam: it means that if we harvested the sun for all its energy, we still wouldnt be able to power a computer that added 1+1 that many times
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[15:25:37] eam: the sun has 1e58 atoms so of course it does
[15:25:50] canton7: eam, uh, that's not how maths works :P
[15:25:51] Ox0dea: ch33s3c4k3: he/she/who, him/her/whom
[15:25:55] Ox0dea: It's surprisingly simple.
[15:25:56] ch33s3c4k3: I thought we were talking about Sun(tm)
[15:26:05] eam: canton7: sure it is
[15:26:06] domgetter: dem/der/dem/den
[15:26:14] domgetter: thats all I remember from German class
[15:26:15] eam: what's the energy contained in one atom?
[15:26:23] eam: certainly enough to power one addition
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[15:26:42] eam: this is called "back of the envelope debunking" :)
[15:26:53] domgetter: eam 40**40 is about 10 to the 65, so it would take a million suns
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[15:27:31] domgetter: 10 million suns*
[15:27:32] ch33s3c4k3: is that, or is that not, more than 3?
[15:27:43] eam: well no, because splitting an atom provides billions more power than it takes to drive a math operation
[15:27:46] domgetter: ch33s3c4k3: it's on the order of more than 3
[15:27:58] ch33s3c4k3: Hmmm. That sounds like too many.
[15:28:25] Ox0dea: > billions more power
[15:28:31] Ox0dea: I love it.
[15:28:32] ch33s3c4k3: Maybe if we had 3 suns, and just told them there's a lot riding on this and they'll need to work extra hard
[15:28:33] eam: Ox0dea: :)
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[15:28:44] eam: "a lot ok"
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[15:29:04] domgetter: eam, that's gross energy, not net
[15:29:15] domgetter: you'd need to fuel your fission reaction
[15:29:23] eam: well it'd be fusion
[15:29:25] domgetter: the sun is already fueling its fusion reaction
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[15:29:54] eam: we're talking in the abstract I assume, so I'm just converting mass to energy
[15:29:55] domgetter: so we can only count joules of radiation from that fusion
[15:30:09] eam: since they're the same
[15:30:18] domgetter: they're proportional
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[15:30:34] domgetter: e != m, e = mc**2
[15:30:40] canton7: the sun has a theoretical mass-energy of 1.8?10^47 J, according to wikipedia
[15:30:52] eam: canton7: released through gravitational fusion?
[15:30:54] domgetter: how much energy does it take to flip a bit?
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[15:31:10] eam: canton7: because I'm discussing the entire energy potential
[15:31:39] Ox0dea: domgetter: It's so easy even neutrinos sometimes do it.
[15:32:08] domgetter: according to Landauer's principle, we can flip a bit with 2.75 * 10**-21 J : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer's_principle
[15:32:23] domgetter: that's 10**68 bit flips
[15:32:50] Ox0dea: domgetter: That's a no-op.
[15:33:11] Ox0dea: >> bit = 0; 10e3.times { bit ^= 1 }; bit
[15:33:13] ruboto: Ox0dea # => undefined method `times' for 10000.0:Float (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497170)
[15:33:18] Ox0dea: You get the idea.
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[15:34:10] tockitj: eam - how do you harvest that much energy?
[15:34:32] eam: we don't currently have that kind of technology, obviously :)
[15:34:35] domgetter: tockitj: that's not relevant. eam is arguing against the claim that the sun could even do that in theory
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[15:34:49] tockitj: do you really do not understand example about sun?
[15:35:02] tockitj: domgetter, well sun radiate energy as black body
[15:35:24] tockitj: peak of this radiation is in visible spectrum (yellow light)
[15:35:59] tockitj: example about sun being or not being able to cycle through states of idealized register is quite common
[15:36:05] domgetter: but yea, building an enclosing dyson shell would prove problematic
[15:36:13] domgetter: and take all kinds of energy in itself
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[15:36:24] tockitj: and it relies on the energy output of the sun - output being radiated energy into vacuum
[15:36:53] Ox0dea: Are Internet arguments Turing-complete?
[15:37:19] Ox0dea: Like, could you use smugma to perform computation?
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[15:37:51] eam: we haven't even begun to discuss how we might extract energy from the iron core
[15:38:03] Ox0dea: Whose iron core?
[15:38:07] eam: the sun's
[15:38:21] ddv: you've been there eam?
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[15:38:34] Ox0dea: ddv: You're in space.
[15:38:36] eam: to the sun!?!
[15:38:48] ddv: good point
[15:38:48] Ox0dea: eam is Icarus confirmed.
[15:39:08] domgetter: I got dibs on any gold in there
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[15:39:33] domgetter: (hint: there isn't any)
[15:39:45] eam: well, save traces from other supernova
[15:39:52] Ox0dea: *supernovae
[15:39:53] tockitj: eam, point is that majority of energy sources on earth rely on energy that came from sun
[15:40:10] tockitj: eam, energy that is radiated through em waves
[15:40:23] domgetter: tockitj: that only cuts it down a few orders of magnitude
[15:40:26] tockitj: eam, and that is just a tiny fraction of energy that sun radiates in all directions
[15:40:46] eam: tockitj: indeed, and the radiated energy is just a tiny fraction of the total energy potential of its mass
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[15:41:07] eam: that's why I mention iron
[15:41:12] Ox0dea: Ah, I see the source of the confusion now.
[15:41:29] Ox0dea: tockitj is approaching the question from the perspective of using the Sun to perform computation here on Earth.
[15:41:35] Ox0dea: eam was talking about going and getting it.
[15:41:50] Ox0dea: (I hope.)
[15:41:51] eam: render unto space caesar
[15:42:15] domgetter: I got it, let's just ram earth into the sun so we can get all that material
[15:42:25] domgetter: that should be cheaper than making round trips
[15:42:32] ddv: nerds arguing
[15:42:46] _Tariq: Meanwhile, I'm still unable to run bundle install properly
[15:42:51] eam: I was thinking a quantum black hole might be the most constructive approach
[15:42:56] _Tariq: I even copied and pasted somebody else's SSL certificate
[15:43:00] ddv: _Tariq: we are discussing more important things than your ssl problem
[15:43:07] domgetter: _Tariq: I recommend uninstalling and reinstalling rvm
[15:43:29] _Tariq: "Really? uninstall, all? See "rvm list" and limit the selection to something more sane please :)"
[15:43:38] _Tariq: Gee thanks rvm.
[15:43:49] aegis3121: sounds like rvm implode?
[15:43:56] _Tariq: Not sure whether to thank you for stopping me for doing something stupid, or to curse you for ignoring my instructions.
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[15:49:57] Ox0dea: Curse it for ignoring your stupid instructions.
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[15:51:21] Ox0dea: > Why Must Systems Be Operated?
[15:52:02] nertzy: has joined #ruby
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[15:53:46] eam: the real answer is that the cheap PC platform undercut the expensive mainframe market which featured all kinds of redundancy
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[15:57:18] _Tariq: Resetting SSL stuff doesn't seem to be doing anything
[15:57:21] _Tariq: there must be another problem
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[15:58:02] _Tariq: Maybe my internet blocker is blocking connections needlessly
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[16:00:25] headius: yorickpeterse: your specs are very heavy on using Socket to test the more specific types...kind of a pain
[16:00:55] headius: like the roundabout way you test UNIXSocket.recvfrom
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[16:01:33] headius: most of the specific sockets can be implemented very simply without touching Socket, so having Socket be required for their specs is troublesome
[16:02:12] yorickpeterse: Socket has the most straightforward API compared to all the other classes
[16:02:18] yorickpeterse: Hence it's used all over the place
[16:02:19] headius: I've had to implement more stuff on Socket than in any of the specific sockets just to get the specific sockets' specs to run
[16:02:39] headius: Socket has the most raw API, I'll give you that
[16:02:41] yorickpeterse: That just sounds like JRuby's Socket wasn't compatible to begin with
[16:02:49] headius: we don't have a raw socket on JDK
[16:03:01] headius: I have to emulate each type individually
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[16:03:43] headius: it was compatible enough for the users using us...and I fixed issues as they came in
[16:04:11] yorickpeterse: A lot of the Socket snippets are also pretty much straight from the rdoc
[16:04:13] _Tariq: My website blocker blocks anything that runs on the same server as the websites that I want to block
[16:04:30] Ox0dea: _Tariq: $ curl -sI https://rubygems.org | head -1
[16:04:34] Ox0dea: What's that give you?
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[16:04:49] _Tariq: HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[16:04:53] yorickpeterse: As harsh as it sounds, whatever the JVM can/can't do isn't really the concern of rubysl-socket, it just follows (as closely as possible) what CRuby does
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[16:05:12] yorickpeterse: and IIRC in a bunch of cases there's no way around using raw Socket because of dumb shit in CRuby
[16:05:24] _Tariq: I don't really know how to turn off my webblocker and may probably not want to anyway
[16:05:31] headius: yorickpeterse: it doesn't sound harsh...I just have to be realistic
[16:05:35] _Tariq: I think I have to, if I actually want to do any bundle install stuff
[16:05:59] yorickpeterse: headius: well you don't have to implement everything, e.g. we ditched ancillary data because it was too much of a pain
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[16:06:19] headius: right, but that's what I'm saying...there's a lot more of Socket I have to implement just to run the other socket types' specs
[16:06:24] headius: they're not isolated from Socket
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[16:07:07] yorickpeterse: well so in many cases Socket is used to set up a server, usually DGRAM because that's easier. The alternative would've been a UDP server (using Socket.udp_server or whatever it was called), which has the same problems
[16:07:10] yorickpeterse: the same goes for TCPServer
[16:07:34] yorickpeterse: it's basically impossible to write these specs in isolation since the "design" is a spaghetti of dependencies
[16:07:40] headius: I know there's some cases where you just can't do it without Socket
[16:07:45] headius: it's just frustrating
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[16:08:06] headius: in any case, most of what I've fixed has been somewhat edge-casey
[16:08:18] headius: argument coercion, Addrinfo/sockaddr juggling, etc
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[16:09:38] headius: most of the specific socket type specs run green (most ran green to begin with) and I've filled out a bit more of Socket and Addrinfo
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[16:11:07] headius: yorickpeterse: what do you have left to do on the impl?
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[16:11:21] yorickpeterse: OS X support, that's all
[16:11:23] headius: it would be interesting to try to reuse it but there's still a lot of rbx-specific callouts
[16:11:28] yorickpeterse: which is mostly adjusting specs because they do Linux specific stuff
[16:11:37] yorickpeterse: All Rbx specific stuff has been moved to lib/rubysl/socket
[16:11:46] yorickpeterse: everything in lib/socket just refers to wrapped stuff
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[16:13:27] _Tariq: Oh come on!
[16:13:29] _Tariq: This is bad
[16:13:37] _Tariq: My website blocker is indeed blocking rubygems
[16:13:43] _Tariq: but I can't get rid of my website blocker
[16:13:58] headius: yorickpeterse: ok
[16:14:22] headius: I don't think there's anything in there we can't support but some of the build-time things will be tricky
[16:14:34] headius: we don't have a build time for 99% of people
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[16:15:27] mustmodify: why didn't this work from bash? ruby < "puts 'hello'"
[16:15:51] eam: mustmodify: do you have a file named "puts 'hello'" ?
[16:16:17] _Tariq: Okay, I hope this isn't help vampire mode but...how do I know what servers are on ssl.fastly.net?
[16:16:25] Ox0dea: eam: Disregard.
[16:16:26] mustmodify: eam: no, and obviously that's the problem, but I thought that was how to get stdin into some program.
[16:16:30] headius: yorickpeterse: config("rbx.platform.addrinfo" ...
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[16:16:36] Ox0dea: mustmodify: $ ruby <<< 'p 42'
[16:16:41] eam: mustmodify: try echo "puts 'hello'" | ruby
[16:16:46] _Tariq: Because I think my website blocker is blocking ssl.fastly.net because one of my blocked sites is on there
[16:16:52] _Tariq: so I need to know which blocked site it is
[16:16:56] headius: I assume those are building something in rbx to map the struct
[16:17:06] headius: we don't have a build time to do that
[16:17:14] eam: Ox0dea: wow, was not aware of <<< -- is that a bash-ism?
[16:17:34] Ox0dea: eam: There is only Bash.
[16:17:40] eam: mmmmmmmm
[16:17:44] yorickpeterse: headius: the config(...) bits are used to determine field lengths/offsets
[16:17:45] Papierkorb: _Tariq: why are you blocking sites? fastly is a CDN ..
[16:17:52] eam: debian based distros are gonna ruin your day
[16:17:53] yorickpeterse: They are set when rbx is compiled
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[16:17:55] headius: right, I figured
[16:17:55] _Tariq: Papierkorb: To avoid distractions
[16:18:08] eam: or freebsd, or :D
[16:18:12] headius: we could either use jnr-clang to generate that or just do them manually per platform like most other structs we ship
[16:18:20] Papierkorb: _Tariq: Don't block CDNs. Block the pages themselves.
[16:18:28] Papierkorb: if you really have to, that is
[16:18:33] mustmodify: Ox0dea: thanks
[16:18:38] Ox0dea: mustmodify: Happy to help.
[16:18:43] headius: or ffi-clang I guess
[16:18:45] _Tariq: That what I thought I did, but it seems my lovely producitivty blocker wants to block CDNs.
[16:18:48] _Tariq: *productivity
[16:18:53] headius: ffi-gen, whatever it's called
[16:18:59] _Tariq: since it blocks the computer hosting the pages
[16:19:11] Papierkorb: _Tariq: so it blocks productivity ? Looks like it
[16:19:46] _Tariq: CNN uses fastly
[16:19:50] yorickpeterse: headius: IIRC Truffle also uses rubysl-socket, not sure what they did to make it work though
[16:19:51] _Tariq: so let me "unblock" CNN
[16:19:54] _Tariq: and see if that might fix the issue
[16:20:02] _Tariq: ...or even better
[16:20:07] _Tariq: find an actual good producitivty blocker
[16:20:13] yorickpeterse: _Tariq: this sounds offtopic
[16:20:17] _Tariq: Yes it is
[16:20:20] _Tariq: So I'll shut up
[16:20:21] _Tariq: thanks yorickpeterse
[16:20:26] Papierkorb: Or just don't go on reddit all the time _Tariq and throw that junk away.
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[16:20:40] headius: yorickpeterse: I don't think they do
[16:20:49] headius: at least, I don't see any of the sources in our repo
[16:20:49] chrisseaton: yorickpeterse: we generated config parameters on Mac and Ubuntu and hard coded them into our source - not sure if it will work long term but it's fine for now
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[16:21:14] headius: chrisseaton: are you using rubysl-socket of some version?
[16:21:17] yorickpeterse: headius: https://github.com/jruby/jruby/tree/3c164ca93d1e60373fd5f2c7f1895915fb8c577e/lib/ruby/truffle/rubysl/rubysl-socket
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[16:21:20] chrisseaton: we use rubysl-socket, but some of things it does via FFI we just implemented in Java (sometimes using jnr-posix so the effect is the same)
[16:21:27] headius: odd...didn't come up in a search
[16:21:29] chrisseaton: headius: yes, from a while ago
[16:21:40] headius: well if you have the stubs we can probably just use the same thing then
[16:21:57] headius: if that seems valuable over the JDK-based versions
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[16:22:03] chrisseaton: it was surprisingly painless to use - but I guess it's changed a lot in the most recent version so I can't say for sure
[16:22:19] chrisseaton: also it works for Webrick and Siantra, who knows about the wider Ruby ecosystem
[16:22:31] chrisseaton: I wouldn't jump on it right now unless you're just experimenting
[16:22:50] headius: it sounds like rubysl-socket was in a pretty poor state before yorickpeterse's work
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[16:23:10] headius: I'm just working on our JVM-based socket lib using his specs to improve what we already had
[16:23:55] chrisseaton: headius: using the specs makes a lot of sense as a first step, whether or not you do more later
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[16:24:27] chrisseaton: headius: here's the Java we needed to back ruby-socket - some of it was for other libraries so it's less really https://github.com/jruby/jruby/blob/master/truffle/src/main/java/org/jruby/truffle/nodes/rubinius/PosixNodes.java
[16:24:28] headius: dunno if any of these fixes affected users, but it's a net improvement
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[16:24:50] headius: ahh, and these are all in jnr-posix anyway
[16:24:55] headius: that's good
[16:25:04] yorickpeterse: headius: it was fucking terrible
[16:25:14] headius: I feel like I need to rejigger jnr-enxio and jnr-unixsocket to build atop jnr-posix
[16:25:22] headius: they both have their own bindings
[16:25:24] yorickpeterse: I honestly wonder how a lot of the code _ever_ came through Q&A, probably because there was none
[16:25:49] headius: this is OSS man, if you aren't QA yourself nobody will be
[16:26:20] yorickpeterse: well I did clean up at least 5-6 years of crap
[16:26:32] headius: I'm not surprised
[16:27:06] headius: socket was a major pain for us to implement too...imagine doing it all without access to any file descriptors, socket(), bind(), or listen()
[16:27:12] yorickpeterse: Basically everything was there: widely different code styles? Check. Code implemented incorrectly? Check. Useless comments/TODOs from years back? Check. Code lumped together? Check. Inadequate tests? Check
[16:27:42] yorickpeterse: I recall one bit of code that was so far from correct I wonder what it was ever based on
[16:27:47] yorickpeterse: though I can't quite remember what code it was
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[16:29:00] headius: yorickpeterse: I assume all the custom rubysl gems will need to go through MPL conversion too
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[16:30:23] yorickpeterse: Not sure, since a lot of them bundle CRuby code they're basically using the same license
[16:30:33] yorickpeterse: not sure if I ever got around to making sure they actually had the correct licenses though
[16:30:34] headius: rubysl-socket, for example
[16:31:09] yorickpeterse: Probably what we'll do is keep the licenses as-is and only change them whenever the Gems are changed in a big way
[16:31:19] yorickpeterse: so e.g. I'll _probably_ move rubysl-socket to MPL 2.0 after OS X/BSD works
[16:31:41] yorickpeterse: since I practically rewrote the whole thing there's probably few (if any) people that would have to be contacted
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[16:32:39] headius: yorickpeterse: hard to determine that
[16:32:57] headius: indent someone else's line of code correctly, it's still their code but you won't see it in a blame anymore
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[16:33:26] headius: when I've had to do this process before, I actually had to go back and look at a few folks' commits to see what was left
[16:33:40] headius: I'm guessing most of that history was blown away when the gems were pulled out of rbx repo too
[16:33:48] headius: or at least harder to get at
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[16:35:20] yorickpeterse: Probably, hence I won't take a look at it for a while
[16:36:11] headius: bleh, I wish I could figure out why JDK always wants to use ::1 instead of 0:0:0:0:0:0:1
[16:36:19] headius: like half of the remaining failures would go away
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[16:44:52] tubbo: headius: it doesn't have to type so much
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[16:45:23] headius: tubbo: yeah, it's just annoying because I have all these "failures" that aren't :-)
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[16:53:19] Papierkorb: >> RUBY_VERSION
[16:53:20] ruboto: Papierkorb # => "2.2.0" (https://eval.in/497221)
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[16:53:56] Papierkorb: Blasphemy. The lonely-person operator does not work with #[]: "whatever"&.[1]
[16:54:05] Papierkorb: Gives a SyntaxError
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[16:56:08] ljarvis: nil&.[](1)
[16:56:33] Ox0dea: Papierkorb: In line with the fact that neither does the method invocation operator (`.`).
[16:56:45] FernandoBasso: Where can docs on ruby-doc.org be found about class instance variables?
[16:57:16] apeiros: Papierkorb: all methods can be used with &., just use the generic syntax instead of the sugar
[16:57:56] apeiros: ok, I think I have to revoke that. not all methods can. those defined with define_method and friends with an invalid name can't.
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[16:58:44] Ox0dea: apeiros: Yet.
[17:00:12] adaedra: apeiros: you may want to change the setting in ruboto about default language version? :)
[17:00:22] Ox0dea: Honestly.
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[17:02:50] FernandoBasso: Even site:ruby-doc.org "class instance variables" doesn't find much.
[17:03:24] adaedra: class instances variables are just instance variables at class level?
[17:03:29] FernandoBasso: "(1) is a class instance variable, and (2) is an ordinary instance variable (which, not having been initialized, has a value of nil). (2) belongs to an instance of class Foo, and (1) belongs to the class object Foo, which is an instance of Class class. (phew!)"
[17:03:34] FernandoBasso: (from an old faq)
[17:03:51] FernandoBasso: "belongs to an instance of class Foo"? Strange!
[17:04:21] FernandoBasso: I would think that it only "belongs to the class object Foo".
[17:04:50] adaedra: You should give us even less context, we're beginning to see what you're talking about here.
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[17:05:30] FernandoBasso: http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ruby-doc-bundle/FAQ/FAQ.html Look in 8.3.
[17:05:51] FernandoBasso: What do you mean "even less context"?
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[17:06:23] adaedra: nvm that, you already replied to that.
[17:06:25] Mon_Ouie: What that FAQ says is correct
[17:07:00] adaedra: Look, (1) and (2) are reference to two different variables, to show the difference.
[17:07:38] FernandoBasso: But still, that was as much as I could get from ruby-doc.org.
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[17:07:52] jj: Hey everyone! I'm new to ruby and wondering where I can see all the gems that are installed in a specific project as dependencies? I'm looking for some kind of a pendant to the package.json file that you have in node.js-based projects
[17:08:06] apeiros: adaedra: yes, I totally want to.
[17:08:19] Salve: jj: look at Gemfile
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[17:08:54] adaedra: jj: for gems, the `.gemspec` file, for non-gemified projects, `Gemfile`.
[17:08:55] FernandoBasso: And Gemfile.lock, since it lists dependencies.
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[17:09:20] Salve: Well, Gemfile.lock isn't ment to be touched
[17:09:28] adaedra: Can be read tho.
[17:09:37] FernandoBasso: Yep, that was my intent.
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[17:10:42] adaedra: apeiros: also, have you deployed the new things yet?
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[17:11:00] jj: @adaedra @Salve I have a project built with jekyll but cannot find any .Gemfile or .gemspec that has been generated after I installed a gem - where is it supposed to lie in? In the root of the project?
[17:11:02] Mon_Ouie: It's mostly because the distinction between "instance variable" and "class instance variable" does not matter to Ruby, it's just convenient to refer to them that way. @foo always refers to the instance variable called '@foo' of whatever happens to be self when it gets evaluated. That thing could be a class or any other type of object.
[17:11:05] rubyonrailed: I'm having trouble with jruby. I installed it using `rbenv install jruby-1.7.16` And now i'm gettingt this error: `rbenv: jruby: command not found`
[17:11:14] rubyonrailed: Did I install jruby incorretly?
[17:11:19] adaedra: jj: `Gemfile` is a file, without .
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[17:11:35] ruboto: Missing command under rbenv? Did you try `rbenv rehash`?
[17:11:42] adaedra: rubyonrailed: ^
[17:12:14] Salve: jj: do a search find / -name gems
[17:12:23] jj: @adaedra No, unfortunately I can't find a Gemfile either
[17:12:27] rubyonrailed: rubuto: Just tried that, same error.
[17:12:29] jj: @Salve I'll try that thanks
[17:12:32] adaedra: jj: ah but you just installed a gem and want to see its dependency, not in a cloned/installed project?
[17:12:44] adaedra: rubyonrailed: did you change the current ruby to jruby in rvm?
[17:12:50] Salve: adaedra: I think he just wants to find the gems
[17:13:16] jj: @adaedra yes, the project is cloned from github and I just installed the gem locally after I downloaded all the source code
[17:13:24] apeiros: adaedra: nope. I was satisfying my addiction and played through xenoblade in mostly one piece. but that's done since ~11h ago :D
[17:13:33] adaedra: jj: which github?
[17:13:47] apeiros: now trying to reestablish a sane sleep pattern ^^
[17:13:53] adaedra: tssk tssk tssk.
[17:14:07] Salve: who needs sleep...pfff
[17:14:22] FernandoBasso: Mon_Ouie: "of whatever happens to be self when it gets evaluated" That is what was missing for my understanding of this mater. Thanks.
[17:14:39] FernandoBasso: (I'll run some tests anyway, though, since I want to "see" it in action)
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[17:15:34] Salve: jj: these are your gems: https://github.com/jekyll/jekyll/blob/master/Gemfile
[17:15:37] FernandoBasso: Ah, even warnings just say "instance variable".
[17:15:47] rubyonrailed: adaedra Whoops :0
[17:15:50] jj: @Salve nothing found in my project folder - just for checking: I'm not looking for the folders with the code for the gems, I'm just wondering if there is a file in my own local project where the dependencies are referenced
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[17:16:12] jj: @Salve I thought about something like a package.json that you have in node.js projects
[17:16:20] adaedra: jj: Yes, it should be a `[project-name].gemspec` file or `Gemfile`.
[17:16:22] Salve: jekyll is compiled gem so...
[17:16:30] adaedra: jj: show the project in question?
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[17:17:27] jj: @adaedra sorry, it's a private one
[17:17:36] adaedra: ??\_(???)_/??
[17:17:50] jj: @adaedra I know :-=
[17:18:02] adaedra: also, distant gems dependencies are listed on their page on rubygems.org
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[17:22:04] jj: @adaedra @Salve seems I still have to create a Gemfile manually if it isn't already present in my jekyll project as of now. Found this one question on a board: https://talk.jekyllrb.com/t/more-information-about-gemfiles/509
[17:22:22] sandstrom: Is there something similar to `arity` in the context of a called method? E.g. `def foo(a, b = nil); /* ... */ end;` how can I know within the function if it was called with `foo(1)` or `foo(1, nil)`
[17:24:12] adaedra: I don't think there is.
[17:24:49] sandstrom: (except using *args + counting)
[17:25:01] sandstrom: (maybe that wouldn't even work)
[17:25:13] sandstrom: adaedra okay, thanks!
[17:26:37] Mon_Ouie: You could do something like NoArgument??= Object.new and then def foo(a, b = NoArgument); ???; end
[17:26:50] Mon_Ouie: I've never seen anyone really do that in Ruby though
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[17:42:14] pesh0: hello guys, how can I have something like a factory method in ruby? for example I have a constructor with the initialize method, but I want to have a method from_foo which constructs the same object from the string foo?
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[17:42:28] pesh0: and more importantly, I want to have them both :)
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[17:43:30] penne12: for class methods:
[17:43:30] penne12: http://www.railstips.org/blog/archives/2009/05/11/class-and-instance-methods-in-ruby/
[17:43:56] cschneid_: pesh0: I do that often. `def self.from_foo; preprocess; new(myAdjustedArguments); end`
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[17:44:14] penne12: and constructors:
[17:44:15] penne12: http://odetocode.com/Blogs/scott/archive/2010/07/13/ruby-initialize-and-super.aspx
[17:44:29] pesh0: cschneid_: so basically, I should call initialize from the class method right?
[17:45:05] cschneid_: pesh0: you should call `new`, just like any other place you'd create an object. `initialize` isn't something you call directly very often
[17:45:31] pesh0: yeah lol, my mistake; new would call it anyway so that's what I meant
[17:45:35] pesh0: thanks guys you are gold <3
[17:45:40] penne12: So like (Employee.new("Chuck"))
[17:45:58] penne12: calls initalize with args: "Chuck"
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[17:46:59] pesh0: yup I got it :)
[17:49:10] penne12: Awesome, and you can define the class method "def self.potato"
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[17:58:54] cschneid_: Do threads have any concept of "parent thread" that spawned them?
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[18:00:10] apeiros: cschneid_: no
[18:00:48] cschneid_: that's unfortunate :) Confirms my skim of the docs though.
[18:01:03] apeiros: threads aren't a hierarchy
[18:01:20] apeiros: if you want a hierarchy, you can easily build one
[18:01:32] apeiros: or do you need this for debugging?
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[18:02:07] penne12: out of curiosity, what is your interest level in a ruby framework to create minecraft one command block creations
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[18:02:43] cschneid_: apeiros: I work for Scout, and we have a rails monitoring tool - but it loses track across threads. For instance, we fire off a handful of db queries in sub threads in our own app, and it's difficult to track those automatically
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[18:03:16] cschneid_: apeiros: getting down & dirty w/ the innards of ruby & rails to automate the tracing, haven't come up w/ a clear way to do it across threads
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[18:11:19] tnordloh: if all your threads are in an array (or some other object) then you can iterate through them in a separate 'monitor' thread periodically.
[18:11:43] apeiros: cschneid_: override Thread.new and .start
[18:11:54] apeiros: track their invocation
[18:12:14] apeiros: it's what we did when we had runaway threads which didn't check connections back into the pool
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[18:15:28] tnordloh: When I'm troubleshooting a thread, I assign values within the thread, like Thread.current[:status] = "some status here", then use my monitor thread to loop through my thread pool, and examine that status, if that helps.
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[18:20:52] jbrhbr: happy new year, rubyfolk
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[18:23:12] cschneid_: apeiros: yeah, was hoping not to get too fancy w/ Thread monkey patching, but that's where I've gotta end up
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[18:25:08] Hanmac: shevy: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/136618846553/tales-from-the-pit-1186
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[18:48:07] wolffles: hey everyone
[18:48:16] apeiros: hi wolffles
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[18:50:18] wolffles: so ive just finished a beginners guide to ruby book, and im looking for some intermediate practice. what can i create that would be good practice for me?
[18:50:41] penne12: What do you want to do?
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[18:52:45] wolffles: im not sure where to go from where i am
[18:53:05] wolffles: what can i do with a basic knowlegde of ruby?
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[18:53:42] adaedra: everything
[18:53:42] apeiros: not much. but that's the wrong question anyway, since you always can (and should) extend your basic knowledge with what you're doing.
[18:54:23] apeiros: i.e., just start, even if you can't do it yet. learn it while you're doing it.
[18:55:08] wolffles: can i make little apps for my mac?
[18:55:32] wolffles: idk i need a teacher D:
[18:56:01] apeiros: you might be better off using rubymotion if you mean GUI apps (not sure though whether it's iOS only)
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[18:57:57] havenwood: wolffles: The starter edition of RubyMotion doesn't support OS X so it'd be $199 a year.
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[18:59:42] zacts: what is RubyMotion?
[18:59:45] wolffles: id be interested in GUI apps thanks for the idea
[18:59:46] zacts: ACTION searches
[19:00:56] zacts: so is RubyMotion the only serious Ruby for Android?
[19:00:57] adaedra: GUI is not really one of Ruby's strengths.
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[19:01:18] wolffles: yeah i cant find much info on it
[19:01:20] zacts: (I realize RubyMotion is cross platform too)
[19:01:28] zacts: but I'm curious as to the options for Ruby on android
[19:01:38] penne12: RubyMotion
[19:01:40] penne12: RubyMotion
[19:01:49] penne12: and RubyMotion
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[19:02:06] adaedra: Personally, if I want to GUI, I look at native libs/langs or Qt
[19:02:15] penne12: and maybe Haml + Rails + Ionic/Electron, but that's not really ruby
[19:02:16] wolffles: what do a majority of ruby users build anyways?
[19:02:36] adaedra: well, not only, we have other web frameworks.
[19:02:41] penne12: and about one of them (me) makes Minecraft one command creations
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[19:02:53] wolffles: interesting
[19:02:56] adaedra: not enough apparently, as some people decided to make one themselves.
[19:02:56] zacts: how about http://ruboto.org/?
[19:02:59] havenwood: zacts: MobiRuby (mruby) was a thing but I'm not sure how far it's come on Android?
[19:03:12] havenwood: zacts: And yeah, Ruboto.
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[19:03:35] havenwood: JRuby jars!
[19:04:06] zacts: cool thanks havenwood et al...
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[19:06:12] havenwood: wolffles: You know you can just make a .app by hand too. :O Here's a silly example of apache-callback-mac with a Sinatra app: https://github.com/havenwood/sinatra-dot-app
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[19:06:37] havenwood: wolffles: So it launches a sinatra app then serves it up to your web browser. >.>
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[19:07:31] havenwood: wolffles: A RubyMotion license really might be worth considering if you want to make nice native OS X apps in Ruby!
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[19:08:36] wolffles: i should really just try to get into this school and stop procrastinating
[19:09:07] wolffles: i feel like without guidance im slowing down in my rate of progress
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[19:11:45] tubbo: no it's not at all havenwood :)
[19:11:51] tubbo: because rubymotion is basically free if you just want to fuck around
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[19:11:59] tubbo: which i am super thrilled about
[19:12:11] tubbo: because i'm not paying $300 just to find out that it doesn't work for me
[19:13:03] Papierkorb: Rubymotion was ultra slow on my Samsung S2 :|
[19:13:14] Papierkorb: So, if you want to keep low-end phones in mind ..
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[19:43:47] shevy: zacts the ruby-gnome bindings are ok-ish
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[19:51:21] shevy: I had hopes for ruby-qt but it kinda went through strangeness-ness
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[19:54:38] shevy: Papierkorb it did not work for a long time
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[19:54:57] Papierkorb: it did work recently, but it's stuck at Qt4.8, so ..
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[19:56:06] shevy: rdale used to maintain the project, then he vanished
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[20:15:26] tos9: Hey, not a ruby programmer unfortunately, but I'm trying to install a bundle and noticing a lot of broken Makefiles for the gems it's trying to install (my bundle contains pretty much just chef)
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[20:15:46] tos9: Is the install target for those Makefiles automatically generated by bundler or are those part of the projects -- I guess I can check that
[20:15:57] tos9: But it's running a bunch of random shell commands without actually properly quoting the arguments.
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[20:17:17] tos9: OK it looks like ruby is generating those Makefiles.
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[20:21:58] tos9: OK :/ but it's the project's extconf.rb's that look like they handle that, and e.g. https://github.com/chef/libyajl2-gem/blob/master/ext/libyajl2/extconf.rb is wrong.
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[20:24:27] Darmani: Hi everyone^^
[20:24:40] blub: hi darmani
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[20:33:07] Darmani: agent_white: This seems so fucking pointless.
[20:33:14] Darmani: I'm still doing these Koans
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[20:34:12] shevy: tos9 what gem breaks? libyajl2 ?
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[20:34:49] MartinR90: I have some general questions, first of all why don't we pre compile ruby (or in general, interpreted languages) to gain performance ?
[20:35:39] Linell: https://gist.github.com/Linell/42967b77b6d70150d5a1 <- I'm trying to write something that allows me to scope methods to only certain users
[20:35:57] tos9: shevy: Yeah.
[20:36:01] canton7: MartinR90, it's not that easy: a lot of stuff isn't known until runtime
[20:36:03] Mon_Ouie: pre-compiling would only increase the performance of loading the code, which isn't that big in the first place
[20:36:30] tos9: shevy: As does dep-selector-libgecode and possibly some others
[20:36:36] MartinR90: canton7, ok can you name these things "unknown" ?
[20:37:00] canton7: data types, for instance?
[20:37:05] tos9: MartinR90: (Don't assume pre-compiled code is faster :)
[20:37:18] canton7: I know this stuff gets very hard very fast
[20:37:30] canton7: ... you might be able to precompile to bytecode, but you can't go to native
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[20:38:26] MartinR90: tos9, when somebody open website that is written in ruby it first have to interpret and complie the script same for every next person
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[20:38:54] MartinR90: so it is slower than if it was pre compiled isn't it ?
[20:39:20] Mon_Ouie: Hm? No, you don't usually reload your whole application for every request, do you?
[20:39:48] MartinR90: Mon_Ouie, what if it it CGI ?
[20:40:06] tos9: MartinR90: No, not necessarily (I'm a guest here, so consider this to be more broadly about ruby, but Topaz makes it pretty directly applicable) -- it's a "fallacy" that pre-compilation (of some source to native code now, not bytecode) is the Only Way to write fast code.
[20:41:08] Mon_Ouie: Then sure, but I don't think that's the most common way people use Ruby to make websites
[20:41:10] tos9: MartinR90: A runtime JIT (like rubinious in ruby, or Topaz in ruby, or PyPy in Python) are very powerful things that can achieve whatever mystical "fast" you're dreaming of in the general case. They do this by using the *additional* information that's available at runtime to generate better code.
[20:42:08] shevy: Mon_Ouie I still use cgi!
[20:42:20] shevy: I feel so 1990
[20:42:31] blub: hi shevy
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[20:42:55] ddv: damn millenials
[20:42:59] shevy: hmm ok 1997...
[20:43:20] shevy: slept well? full of energy to write more code?
[20:43:25] MartinR90: yes but in case of CGI when user open www it the CGI script is first interpreted and than it prints out result - same story for all requests is it correct ?
[20:43:44] blub: not today..
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[20:44:01] MartinR90: blub, what you mean ?
[20:44:08] shevy: MartinR90 yeah, typically you could write a standalone class that handles the output like that, then it can be used on the commandline, on classical GUIs or in app/cgi environments all at the same time
[20:44:29] Darmani: shevy: BRUH
[20:44:34] Darmani: I'm not doing those Koans anymore
[20:44:35] blub: martinr90: that im lazy @_@
[20:44:37] Darmani: They are pointless.
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[20:45:20] shevy: Darmani haha
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[20:45:28] shevy: Darmani did I not tell you to write something that is useful to you :)
[20:45:49] MartinR90: nowadays framweroks starts their application which is already compiled right ?
[20:45:59] Darmani: shevy: yeah you did.
[20:46:11] Darmani: I want to make a music player.
[20:46:17] Darmani: But I probably can't.
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[20:46:54] MartinR90: so when user open website it just prints out result
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[20:51:00] shevy: Darmani no, you must start from a smaller project then let it grow
[20:51:38] Darmani: shevy: like what
[20:51:59] shevy: Darmani that depends on what you need to solve :)
[20:52:20] shevy: I have no idea why you use a computer
[20:52:28] Darmani: to write code lol
[20:52:51] Ox0dea: Darmani: What's your favorite website?
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[20:53:24] Darmani: Ox0dea: Hey buddy ^^
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[20:53:34] shevy: Darmani ok but WHY
[20:53:36] Darmani: To waste time?
[20:53:39] Darmani: Perhaps Reddit.
[20:53:40] shevy: I mean, the code has to do something
[20:53:53] shevy: you can watch youtube videos if you wanna waste time
[20:54:15] Darmani: shevy: I could lol
[20:54:24] Ox0dea: > mfw shevy has 3 youtube tabs open
[20:54:56] adaedra: ACTION closes some tabs
[20:54:56] shevy: hey that is almost correct
[20:54:58] shevy: 2 right now
[20:55:15] Radar: Good morning.
[20:55:25] blub: hi radar
[20:55:38] Darmani: Ox0dea: Why did you ask
[20:55:42] Darmani: Hi Radar ^^
[20:55:52] Darmani: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSmmM5NdW88&ab_channel=InnerpartysystemVEVO
[20:56:02] adaedra: Darmani: because that may give you ideas.
[20:56:04] Ox0dea: Darmani: Because scratching an itch will make the process more enjoyable.
[20:56:17] Ox0dea: This is an okay song.
[20:56:20] shevy: erm... people
[20:56:26] shevy: don't scratch... go and take a bath instead!
[20:56:36] Ox0dea: Hey, uh, how to prevent the heat death of the Universe?
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[20:56:43] Ox0dea: It's urgent.
[20:56:46] shevy: are you sure that this will happen
[20:56:47] Darmani: Ox0dea: Lol
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[20:58:27] Darmani: Ox0dea: So what's a good song
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[20:58:31] Darmani: to help me concentrate? =P
[20:59:02] Ox0dea: Darmani: The sound of impending doom.
[20:59:26] Darmani: Ox0dea: ,,I,,
[20:59:36] Darmani: damn it that middle finger looks fucked up. Lol
[20:59:39] Ox0dea: Did you upgrade from l to I?
[20:59:50] Ox0dea: $ make me
[20:59:56] adaedra: Darmani: calm down.
[21:00:00] lemur: ACTION perks up
[21:00:07] baweaver: ACTION perks up
[21:00:08] Darmani: Why does everyone assume I'm worked up or something
[21:00:18] Ox0dea: Darmani: You're different.
[21:00:21] shevy: baweaver you are such a sneaky little shapechanging beaver
[21:00:29] Ox0dea: You "play rough" or whatever.
[21:00:32] baweaver: Wood you blame me?
[21:00:43] Darmani: Ox0dea: Do I now.
[21:00:47] Darmani: I had no idea.
[21:00:52] Ox0dea: http://i.imgur.com/Ufbr5ej.gif
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[21:01:14] baweaver: and that's enough of that
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[21:02:19] Darmani: Is there a good resource on learning how to chain methods together?
[21:02:21] Darmani: I suck at it.
[21:02:29] baweaver: as in Enumerable?
[21:02:44] Darmani: That's a new word for me.
[21:02:47] Darmani: I'm still learning what it means.
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[21:02:49] adaedra: Give an example, maybe?
[21:03:00] baweaver: it's basically what steps do you need to get from A to B
[21:03:14] aegis3121: Enumerable = Ruby's general purpose Collection module
[21:03:17] Darmani: Hmm. Okay. Hold on.
[21:03:22] baweaver: Like I want the sum of the square of the numbers one to five
[21:03:38] Darmani: http://ideone.com/os1YBV
[21:03:38] baweaver: that's two steps and a data source you want to transform
[21:03:40] Darmani: Like that.
[21:03:47] Darmani: I would never think do to something like that.
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[21:03:56] Darmani: Or I guess it seems hard.
[21:04:03] adaedra: It comes with practice.
[21:04:08] Ox0dea: It comes with exposure.
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[21:04:22] Darmani: That's very helpful
[21:04:23] aegis3121: Just make sure you know what the method returns and think "Does the next thing I'm going to do happen on the same type of object?"
[21:04:24] adaedra: You have to think of the different transformative steps you want on your data.
[21:04:26] Darmani: You are all so wonderful.
[21:04:28] aegis3121: If yes -> probably good to chain
[21:04:33] aegis3121: if no -> maybe/maybe not
[21:04:43] aegis3121: As just a very very very general rule/way of thinking
[21:04:44] baweaver: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.2.3/Enumerable.html
[21:05:00] Mon_Ouie: n(n+1)(2n+1)/6 though
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[21:05:20] baweaver: though if you're chaining 3+ methods you probably need to break things up a bit.
[21:06:03] shevy: never!.shall!.things?.be!.broken!.down!
[21:06:10] Darmani: You know what would be useful?
[21:06:21] shevy: Darmani yes - if you'd start to talk less and write more code :)
[21:06:24] Darmani: Like an interpreter that shows you step by step what's happening in a method like that.
[21:06:31] Darmani: I would like that.
[21:06:36] Darmani: shevy: Fine shevy.
[21:07:03] adaedra: Darmani: you just split up and read.
[21:07:18] Darmani: I'll be back when I'm at my wits end and I have to yell at someone.
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[21:07:41] Darmani: ^ that's for you Ox0dea
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[21:07:44] adaedra: Don't come here to yell, come here to discuss.
[21:07:46] Ox0dea: Darmani: That looks like my code.
[21:07:48] adaedra: And be nice, please.
[21:08:10] Ox0dea: Darmani: Did you say you're familiar with FizzBuzz?
[21:08:16] Radar: [08:07:48] <Ox0dea> Darmani: That looks like my code. <-- ROFL
[21:08:21] ruboto: don't be mean to adaedra
[21:08:23] Darmani: Ox0dea yeah
[21:08:28] Ox0dea: >> _=$$/$$;__=_-_;@_=_+_;$_=@_+_;$__=@_+$_;$-_=$__*$_;@__=''<<$-_*($__+$_)+@_;$___=''<<$-_*$__-$__<<$-_*($__+@_)<<@__<<@__;@___=''<<$-_*$__-$_*$_<<$-_*($__+$_)-$_<<@__<<@__;(___=->____{$.+=_;____<<($.%$-_==__ ?$___+@___:$.%$_==__ ?$___:$.%$__==__ ?@___:$.);$.<($__*@_)**@_?___[____]:____})[[]]
[21:08:29] ruboto: Ox0dea # => [1, 2, "Fizz", 4, "Buzz", "Fizz", 7, 8, "Fizz", "Buzz", 11, "Fizz", 13, 14, "FizzBuzz", 16, 17, "Fiz ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497269)
[21:08:32] Ox0dea: I wasn't kidding.
[21:08:34] shevy: oh my god
[21:08:37] Darmani: jesus christ what the fuck is that
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[21:08:45] shevy: that is a language called brainfuck
[21:08:53] Darmani: it's fucking me right now
[21:09:00] Ox0dea: Do you love it?
[21:09:11] Darmani: Not in the slightest.
[21:09:31] adaedra: ACTION pats Ox0dea 
[21:09:36] Darmani: I can only imagine what sick imaginative thoughts propelled you to create such a monstrosity.
[21:09:38] baweaver: ACTION pats Ox0dea
[21:09:54] adaedra: Darmani: don't ask, but there's worse.
[21:10:05] baweaver: let's tone down the reactions a bit though.
[21:10:08] Darmani: adaedra: Of that, I have no doubt.
[21:10:13] shevy: Darmani naaaah he does it since a long time, there are even worse atrocities than the above
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[21:10:43] Ox0dea: Lots of people mispelling "better" today.
[21:10:59] Darmani: I'm beter than most people
[21:11:00] Ox0dea: And one of us misspelling "misspelling".
[21:11:57] Ox0dea: Darmani: There must be *some* itch?
[21:11:58] Darmani: Okay I'll be back.
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[21:12:15] Darmani: Ox0dea: goddamnit how am I supposed to write when you call my name every five seconds lol
[21:12:25] shevy: ok Damani
[21:12:29] shevy: now you don't get highlighted
[21:12:37] Darmani: Damani LMAO
[21:12:42] Darmani: never heard that one before
[21:12:46] Ox0dea: http://i.imgur.com/Ufbr5ej.gif
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[21:13:09] Darmani: Is that the only gif you know?
[21:13:40] adaedra: Let's not start #gifexchange or #lmao sirs.
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[21:14:44] al2o3-cr: you speak to endoh lol
[21:15:42] Ox0dea: I really like Endoh-san.
[21:16:03] Ox0dea: He's very sensible and doesn't afraid to have fun.
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[21:22:04] shevy: probably because he knows the english language
[21:24:47] al2o3-cr: shevy: you're like a spark :p
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[21:27:05] Ox0dea: I'm having trouble deciding what exactly that comment was meant to insinuate.
[21:27:17] Ox0dea: shevy: Are you accusing me of being xenophobic?
[21:27:56] domgetter: I'm Xenaphobic. She's scary
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[21:31:53] Ox0dea: A vida Seine.
[21:32:58] al2o3-cr: not seen that for years
[21:33:55] shevy: Ox0dea I have no idea what you are being!
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[21:35:03] Ox0dea: shevy: Nor is that of any particular pertinence. Could you clarify what you meant to say?
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[21:35:47] shevy: everything that had to be said was already said
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[21:36:38] domgetter: There's nothing new under the sun
[21:36:50] domgetter: Except maybe a proof that P = NP
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[21:37:42] Ox0dea: shevy: You're suggesting, then, that I like Endoh-san because he knows English?
[21:37:57] Ox0dea: You know English, more or less, so that particular invariant doesn't hold.
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[21:38:29] domgetter: Yea, but shevy *has* to know English
[21:38:29] al2o3-cr: calm down boys
[21:38:54] al2o3-cr: otherwise there will be trouble
[21:39:25] al2o3-cr: set 'em bartender to brandys
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[21:40:58] domgetter: Prepare for trouble! Make it double!
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[21:42:51] al2o3-cr: domgetter: js
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[22:58:26] dorei: when doing "case str ... when regex", is $1, $2, etc the only way to access capture groups from within the when regex block?
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[22:59:44] Ox0dea: dorei: No, there are other globals to that effect.
[23:01:49] Ox0dea: https://eval.in/497323
[23:01:52] Ox0dea: dorei: Way better, right?
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[23:02:43] al2o3-cr: never do this! never!
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[23:11:31] dorei: $LAST_MATCH_INFO[1] ? :O
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[23:12:26] dorei: i think i'll stick with $1 :)
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[23:13:40] volty: is there a way (command line or similar) to determine the location of ruby.h ?
[23:14:16] workmad3: volty: `find / -name ruby.h` maybe?
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[23:14:42] al2o3-cr: volty: sudo grep -r 'ruby.h' /
[23:14:47] volty: workmad3: that one done (with locate), I was asking if you can suggest me something smarter
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[23:15:02] volty: since I have more versions of ruby
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[23:15:06] al2o3-cr: yeah workmad3 shit
[23:15:15] volty: (<above>)
[23:15:22] al2o3-cr: just go with workmad3 solution
[23:15:49] volty: I would like to write the including of that header programatically
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[23:16:26] drbrain: volty: RbConfig has it
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[23:16:59] volty: thx drbrain :)
[23:17:16] drbrain: at least, it has the path to the directory where ruby.h lives
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[23:17:37] volty: that's what I needed
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[23:17:42] scrndddy: anyone using grape to do apis?
[23:17:57] workmad3: scrndddy: a bit, yeah
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[23:21:38] headius: yorickpeterse: out of curiousity I ran your specs against rbx (with the old rubysl-socket)... 1250F+E versus about 1008 for JRuby So I guess JRuby's socket lib was actually a bit less broken than rbx's
[23:21:40] scrndddy: workmad3: i'm thinking about using it on its own without rails. is that a bad idea?
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[23:22:39] headius: I'm sure the majority of those are the same failure, as in JRuby...but it does show that neither of us were really that broken for normal users
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[23:35:54] al2o3-cr: >> $>><<`id`
[23:35:56] ruboto: al2o3-cr # => /tmp/execpad-f5e5fbd7d6e3/source-f5e5fbd7d6e3:7: can't find string "id" anywhere before EOF ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497349)
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[23:44:05] shellie_: Hi, I'm learning python, I got myself a copy of the well grounded rubyist. I have a fair amount of experience in C and Python, so I can read a lot of ruby code. Could someone point me to some good libraries/sources of good ruby practices?
[23:45:05] shevy: you are learning python? :-)
[23:45:38] azzgil: google awesome ruby
[23:46:01] shellie_: shevy: meant ruby, pardon me :)
[23:46:12] shevy: some libraries that may be worth to study are rack and prawn https://github.com/rack/rack https://github.com/prawnpdf/prawn
[23:46:14] shellie_: azzgil: thanks :)
[23:46:15] azzgil: funny troll
[23:46:35] shevy: they may a bit too complex for a newcomer though
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[23:47:05] azzgil: he has c exp
[23:47:20] shevy: azzgil please man
[23:47:26] azzgil: and he cannot find good libs for ruby
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[23:47:37] azzgil: it is strange
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[23:49:01] azzgil: you are a girl?
[23:49:03] shevy: shellie_ another step on is to write your own .gem, for any project of your liking -> http://guides.rubygems.org/make-your-own-gem/ . this has the additional benefit that you will tend to structure your project in ruby in a consistent and logical manner (e. g. lib/ and files residing there, in a module/class namespace)
[23:49:23] shevy: azzgil you really wanna have the ops have a look at you?
[23:49:34] domgetter: I'm a grill btw
[23:50:23] shellie_: I suppose when you are new to a language, you are not familiar with a lot of subtleties. You bring some bagage from other languages and you will therefore approach programming in the new language using what the skills you have acquired. e.g I tried to learn python by writing code in the same way I wrote low level C code, which is not very expressive/idiomatic. I wanted something clean/"beautiful" (idiomatic/expressive/clean), I could look at and learn from
[23:50:44] shellie_: I am not a he, but you can treat me as such
[23:51:23] shevy: yeah, that sometimes happens in ruby too
[23:51:30] shevy: C/C++ influences a lot of the writing style
[23:51:34] domgetter: I treat everyone on the internet the same: dirty, no good liars. every one of them
[23:51:45] shellie_: thanks shevy :)
[23:51:47] shevy: the GUI bindings to ruby-gnome and probably ruby-qt are an example, also ruby-ncurses
[23:52:40] shevy: shellie_ ruby may be a bit different to python because the syntax alone can be more flexible, which can be not so much fun if you have to look at other people's code (if it is bad code) but it can be nice because you have more freedom to decide on your own what style you prefer
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[23:53:55] shellie_: I have read a fair amount of ruby and indeed, it seems to have far more syntactic sugar than python :)
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[23:54:59] shevy: shellie_ you can also have a look at https://github.com/bbatsov/ruby-style-guide - you probably won't agree to all of them (I don't) but at least it's one "style" guide out there, and rubocop enforces this; this is nice because you can have rubocop --autocorrect ruby code written, and change it to a specified style (you can fine tune that behaviour too through rubocop)
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[23:55:53] al2o3-cr: python is the shit when it comes to comprehensions
[23:56:24] shevy: al2o3-cr I lately saw another cool python project
[23:56:39] shevy: al2o3-cr http://etetoolkit.org/
[23:56:53] shevy: now this made it on my todo list! redo this in ruby ... in 20 years or so :D
[23:57:28] shevy: al2o3-cr here is one picture produced automagically, from someone else in #bioinformatics http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/43/D1/D227/F1.large.jpg
[23:57:40] al2o3-cr: can't slag off python i just cant
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[23:58:51] shevy: most of the original bioinformatics code such as the ncbi query tools were written in C/C++ - and then perl
[23:59:02] shellie_: both languages are great, what I hate about having to learn ruby is that it causes dilution. Now instead of improving/focusing on a language I am experienced at, instead I am learning a new one and not going to become an expert on either.. :)
[23:59:18] shevy: the latter seems to have changed somewhat, I see a lot more python code out there these days (or the last few years actually). I am not sure if this has to do with perl declining or with python growing at the same time, or both
[23:59:27] shellie_: but, I do like (and I want to learn) ruby
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[23:59:57] shevy: shellie_ I see
[23:59:59] azzgil: so stupid learn ruby after python