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#ruby - 06 February 2016

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[00:25:41] pushcx: pizzaops: i recently maintained a site using a SOAP API via Savon. It was... less awful than other approaches?
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[00:27:25] pizzaops: Hah. Luckily I don't have to maintain a SOAP API but I do have to leverage one to do some things. Because Enterprise.
[00:27:35] User1234: i cant install ruby gems
[00:27:38] User1234: for some reason
[00:27:40] pizzaops: Everybody knows that if your API isn't SOAP it's not Enterprise.
[00:28:16] pizzaops: User1234: you're probably going to want to share some actual error messages or specifics.
[00:29:11] User1234: ERROR: Error installing actionmailer:
[00:29:11] User1234: ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
[00:29:30] User1234: mkmf.rb can't find header files for ruby at /usr/share/include/ruby.h
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[00:30:27] pushcx: User1234: Linux or OS X?
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[00:31:06] shevy: on debian you typically must install mkmf
[00:31:13] hays: wow Celluloid is pretty nice
[00:31:15] pushcx: shevy: he has mkmf installed
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[00:31:39] hays: ruby syntax still gets me sometimes...
[00:31:45] pushcx: User1234: You need to install the ruby header files... on Debian it's called ruby-dev, let me see if I can find the fedora name.
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[00:32:05] hays: like in a method, i guess you use the @ when looking at an instance variable, but no @ for a method
[00:32:11] pushcx: User1234: yum install ruby-devel
[00:32:26] hays: and passing blocks into functions gets me confused a bit at times
[00:32:32] pushcx: User1234: I think that should solve that error for you
[00:32:55] User1234: Building native extensions. This could take a while...
[00:33:06] pushcx: User1234: Great, good luck. :)
[00:33:18] User1234: if there was a tnx button
[00:33:20] User1234: i would use it
[00:34:11] User1234: one morequestion
[00:34:17] User1234: sinatra or ruby on rails?
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[00:36:13] pushcx: If you're new to Ruby, Sinatra's easier to get started and play around with. Rails is nice if you need lots of features or a job.
[00:36:46] pushcx: And if you're into functional programming and think Ruby's OO magic is kinda crazy, Hanami.
[00:37:22] User1234: any good gui?
[00:37:25] hays: rails and sinatra are pretty different beasts
[00:37:35] hays: aren't they? basically a megaframework vs. microframework
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[00:38:10] pushcx: Not really any good connection to gui toolkits, no.
[00:39:01] User1234: what do you think about
[00:39:03] hays: SQL on rails
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[00:39:54] pushcx: JRuby gives you slightly better speed, slightly worse ram consumption, and, infrequently, dealbreaker incompatible gems.
[00:40:05] shevy: LSD on cracks
[00:40:42] User1234: JRuby can execute like java code
[00:40:58] pushcx: Yeah, if you need to run a Java library there's nice compatibility.
[00:41:36] User1234: one more question
[00:41:40] User1234: is metasploit good
[00:41:55] pushcx: Got me, I don't work in security.
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[00:42:41] User1234: you are a ruby expert
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[00:44:45] shevy: haha User1234 you gave it away who you are! :)
[00:45:10] pushcx: Been doing Ruby around 10 years, spoke at RailsConf last year. Suppose the shoe fits. :)
[00:46:05] User1234: should i learn C?
[00:46:20] User1234: do you know anything besides ruby?
[00:47:42] pushcx: Currently Haskell and JavaScript; previously worked in Python + PHP, tinkered in C, C++, Pascal, x86 Assembly, HyperCard.
[00:48:11] User1234: Assembly - Reverse Engineering?
[00:48:15] pushcx: Once you're comfortable in one language C is worth knowing to understand lower-level abstractions and be able to read libraries, yeah.
[00:48:30] User1234: how does python stack up againts ruby
[00:49:08] pushcx: Very similar - Python is more explicit and popular for scientific computing; Ruby has more magic and is popular for web.
[00:49:17] hays: c is actually a very good language for what it is
[00:49:30] User1234: what about D
[00:49:40] RickHull: D > C by definition
[00:49:58] Ox0dea: >> :D > :C
[00:50:00] ruby[bot]: Ox0dea: # => true (https://eval.in/514006)
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[00:50:25] shevy: those are smileys
[00:50:25] pushcx: But also Rust > C and Go > C if you're curious to write system code rather read it.
[00:50:41] shevy: though the :D smiley is indeed better than that shattered mouth :C smiley
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[00:50:52] shevy: User1234 you'll be back!
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[00:51:03] User1234: i always do
[00:51:09] Ox0dea: "I always back."
[00:51:25] Ox0dea: Calm down.
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[00:52:20] hays: who did rust
[00:52:34] shevy: criminals!
[00:52:47] shevy: mozilla did bootstrap rust didn't they?
[00:53:09] pushcx: yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(programming_language)
[00:53:17] RickHull: yep, grayson hoare for the most part in the early days
[00:53:32] RickHull: er, graydon
[00:53:38] Ox0dea: Son of NULL.
[00:54:15] Ox0dea: "But I couldn't resist the temptation to put in a null reference, simply because it was so easy to implement. This has led to innumerable errors, vulnerabilities, and system crashes, which have probably caused a billion dollars of pain and damage in the last forty years."
[00:54:24] RickHull: i thought they were unrelated
[00:54:46] shevy: this is why language designers need to be geniuses
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[00:56:19] pushcx: Ox0dea: clearly he just missed the &. operator and then it all would've been fine :p
[00:56:31] Ox0dea: RickHull: Seems you're right. https://twitter.com/graydon_pub/status/190159890373820416
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[00:57:26] Ox0dea: pushcx: Loving the WSV so far. :P
[00:57:36] hays: hmm i wonder how "low level" rust is
[00:57:43] pushcx: Ox0dea: It's a page-turner :)
[00:58:41] Ox0dea: Not sure which chapter I'm on, but "Gggg gg ggggg Ggggg gggg ggggggggg g gggggg" is deeply moving.
[00:58:41] pushcx: Ox0dea: oh, actually, I did turn pages recently: https://malaprop.org/post/g.mov
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[00:59:35] Ox0dea: pushcx: I don't see Smash on NearbyGamers. :(
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[01:00:03] Ox0dea: That's the page I'm on!
[01:00:20] pushcx: Ox0dea: search http://nearbygamers.com/tags for 'smash', there's a few people. But mostly the site is card and board games.
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[01:09:16] hays: heh. hello world is 291k
[01:09:20] hays: (in rust)
[01:10:13] pleiosaur: hays: rust statically links by default, like go. if you want C-size binaries, you have to tell it to link dynamically, like C does
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[01:12:27] Ox0dea: >> Array.new(3) { ObjectSpace.each_object.count }
[01:12:28] ruby[bot]: Ox0dea: # => [12171, 12173, 12175] (https://eval.in/514009)
[01:12:30] Ox0dea: What explains the gaps?
[01:12:58] Ox0dea: The only new object between each call is the Enumerator returned by ObjectSpace.each_object, no?
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[01:15:58] pushcx: and the int that goes in the array
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[01:16:18] Ox0dea: pushcx: That's not a new object, though?
[01:16:31] hays: pleiosaur: hmm.. seems to be problematic at least on os x
[01:17:27] pushcx: each_object creates an Enumerator; .count creates a Fixnum
[01:17:43] Ox0dea: pushcx: The latter is untrue.
[01:17:56] Ox0dea: Fixnums are just tagged pointers under the hood.
[01:18:03] pleiosaur: hays: what seems? and to answer your earlier question, rust is lower-level than D and Go, though also manages to be safer than both (while being harder to write, but if you can't write rust code that compiles then you can't write correct C code anyway)
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[01:18:06] shevy: boyz in da hood, fixnums in da hood
[01:18:46] shevy: and dinosaurs on #ruby!
[01:18:59] pleiosaur: shevy: pleiosaurs aren't dinosaurs! common misconception :)
[01:19:13] pushcx: Ox0dea: got me,then - interesting puzzle
[01:19:21] Ox0dea: Aye, a genuine mystery!
[01:19:48] shevy: pretty big fellas
[01:19:48] hays: pleiosaur: http://dpaste.com/2HEB5FC
[01:20:23] Ox0dea: > Pleiosaur is a misspelling of either of two types of extinct marine reptiles:
[01:20:51] Ox0dea: I've never seen that kind of disambiguation page.
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[01:21:39] pleiosaur: hays: dunno why that doesn't work, you probably want to go ask on #rust. might be a problem with your installer if you used homebrew or summat
[01:21:39] shevy: they were big!
[01:22:57] pleiosaur: shevy: they were big! but still not dinosaurs :P
[01:23:45] shevy: pleiosaur I am reading wikipeda to study your weaknesses!
[01:23:56] shevy: though indeed I was redirected to "Plesiosauria" :D
[01:24:00] pleiosaur: shevy: asteroids :(
[01:24:06] Ox0dea: Also Grass.
[01:24:16] Ox0dea: 4x effective against Rock-Water.
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[01:47:57] renier: Is there a way to install a gem without installing its executables?
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[02:10:15] shevy: not sure, probably not. but just remove the bin/ directory which leads to the same result; you can also repackage a .gem to not include a bin/ directory
[02:12:15] pushcx: renier: You could do 'gem install -i /tmp' so they get installed to a throwaway dir
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[02:13:08] havenwood: -n, --bindir DIR
[02:13:30] renier: cool. thanks for the ideas
[02:13:36] pushcx: er, yes, I meant -n rather than -i - havenwood's correct
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[02:15:12] pushcx: renier: You could also install it and parse the yaml output of 'gem specification foo' to remove everything under 'executables'
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[02:21:28] Ox0dea: Shame about there not being a /dev/null analog for directories.
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[02:25:25] eam: easy to make one
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[02:26:36] Ox0dea: Do tell. `mknod` only does files.
[02:26:56] eam: you could even write your filesystem in ruby
[02:27:19] Ox0dea: Many silly things have been done with FUSE.
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[02:27:36] eam: not all sillier than "null for directories"
[02:28:14] Ox0dea: But it's just what the doctor *would've* prescribed for renier this time around.
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[02:34:41] shevy: if he wants a null, give him a null
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[02:35:48] eam: oh I didn't even read that, just write a little LD_PRELOAD hook around open
[02:36:03] eam: have it prompt the terminal "install this file? Y/N"
[02:36:23] Ox0dea: `gem i --no-exe foo` plz.
[02:36:25] eam: I guess you could even just do it in ruby
[02:36:31] eam: Ox0dea: boring
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[02:49:02] havenwood: renier: untested, for what it's worth :P: no_bin_gem="bundler"; gem fetch $no_bin_gem && gem unpack $no_bin_gem && cd $(ls -d $no_bin_gem*/ | head -n 1) && sed -i '' '/executables/d' $no_bin_gem.gemspec && gem build $no_bin_gem.gemspec && gem install $no_bin_gem-*.gem
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[02:49:43] havenwood: unset no_bin_gem
[02:51:45] havenwood: renier: Comparatively `gem install $no_bin_gem -n /tmp` seems nice. ;)
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[02:52:58] Ox0dea: Good heavens.
[02:53:07] Ox0dea: No need to fetch before unpacking.
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[02:54:38] havenwood: Ox0dea: Ah, right - unpack fetches first.
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[06:49:13] Ox0dea: $ chruby-exec trunk -- ruby -e 'p "ma??le??ne??".downcase :fold'
[06:49:16] Ox0dea: "masslessness"
[06:49:18] Ox0dea: http://i.imgur.com/vwMin.gif
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[09:07:25] ljames: I'm looking at some old ruby code that used "case ... when : ..." syntax, maybe 50 or more instances of it, what's a good way of dealing with code like that? change all instances to when ... then ..., or is there a way to enable some sort of compatibility mode and just have the code just work?
[09:08:50] ljames: I meant "case ...: ..." syntax, rather than "case ... when ..."
[09:09:22] ljames: argh, "case ... when ...:" rather than "case ... when ... then", that is, the deprecated semicolon
[09:10:19] apeiros: ljames: no. just replace the : with a then or a ;
[09:10:35] apeiros: it should be fairly trivial to grep for all the instances
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[09:13:14] shevy: ljames alternatively you could give rubocop's autocorrect a try
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[09:14:41] ljames: I suppose I'll do that then. ; would work fine too? as in, I shouldn't expect fall-through issues like is common with C's "if ... else ..." when you don't delimit the block and it only treats the first expression as part of the conditional's to-be-executed body? (I'm fairly new to Ruby, so I hope I'm understanding the syntax right)
[09:16:04] Ox0dea: ljames: `when foo;` and `when foo then` are synonymous.
[09:16:34] ljames: thanks, I suppose it should work, and if not, I'll just test it out
[09:16:51] Ox0dea: The parser doesn't have an opinion. :P
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[09:20:07] shevy: it's very opinionated!!!
[09:20:26] shevy: it doesn't just accept everything
[09:22:00] Ox0dea: ljames: Ruby `case` statements don't really have fall-through as in C, but `when` clauses can have multiple "patterns" separated by commas.
[09:22:47] Ox0dea: Swapping all the colons for semicolons should Just Work, but I'd be interested to know of any cases where it doesn't.
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[09:26:06] ljames: Ox0dea, oh, 2 more unrelated questions, one a bit related to your nickname: any way to force it to print decimals as hexadecimal by default in irb or the like? and the second: I found myself doing a lot of method(args);1 or similar because I need to supress insanely large outputs when irb prints the object (manageable to a console, but if using Emacs not so manageable)
[09:26:20] ljames: and by that I mean Fixnums or other numbers
[09:26:57] shevy: people just like the Ox nickname
[09:27:12] Ox0dea: ljames: I suppose you could redefine Fixnum#inspect if you really want that output at your REPL.
[09:27:38] Ox0dea: As for suppressing massive output, `foo = bar and 1` is my trick.
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[09:29:50] ljames: I suppose I should try that, but I might need to do the same for Bignum too
[09:30:45] Ox0dea: Alas, you'd have to define both explicitly. They don't inherit #inspect from Integer.
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[12:19:15] adgtl: What is equivalent of Elixir lang pipe operator in Ruby?
[12:19:23] adgtl: 1..100_000
[12:19:23] adgtl: |> Enum.map(&(&1 * 3))
[12:19:44] adgtl: can it be called chaining that we do with map and reduce?
[12:20:08] havenwood: adgtl: (1..100_000).map { |n| n * 3 }
[12:20:31] Ox0dea: adgtl: https://eval.in/514147
[12:20:36] havenwood: adgtl: There's a plan to add a pipe operator in Ruby 3.0.
[12:20:42] adgtl: havenwood: I wanted to know what we call for that concept? Is that called chaining?
[12:20:56] havenwood: adgtl: method chaining is a thing
[12:20:56] adgtl: valeri_ufo: awesome to know that Ruby 3.0 will be getting a pipe operator
[12:21:15] adgtl: havenwood: method chaining then it is right?
[12:21:45] adgtl: Basically looking for word to call the concept when we do (1..100_000).map { |n| n * 3 }.reduce { |h| h * 4 }
[12:21:57] adgtl: (1..100_000).map { |n| n * 3 }.reduce { |h, s| h * s }
[12:22:03] Ox0dea: You might want "pipeline".
[12:22:08] adgtl: (1..100_000).map { |n| n * 3 }.reduce(1) { |h, s| h * s }
[12:22:50] adgtl: Ox0dea: haha.. can't see wrong .. should have waited before hitting enter :)
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[12:25:55] Ox0dea: As best I can tell, "pipeline" is the canonical term used in Elixir, and it fits pretty snugly for Ruby too.
[12:27:18] Ox0dea: It's most appropriate when applied to "streams", and I reckon Enumerators fit that shoe just fine.
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[12:37:40] erGoline: Hello :) I need to create a http forwarding proxy in ruby, any resources/idea/suggestion?
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[12:50:07] apeiros: erGoline: err, why'd you *need* to write it in ruby? why not use one of the plenty existing http proxies?
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[12:51:12] erGoline: apeiros: only to learn something new :) and I prefer to deploy it to Heroku, so I have some constrains
[12:53:53] erGoline: apeiros: could be nice something at rack level too, to intetegrate it inside the Rails app I'm developing. I need to forward the traffic to a CDN (fastly) but have a failover to a second server (or the main app itself if using rack)
[12:54:18] pwned: if it's less than a few hundred lines, does what you want without getting lost in configuration docs and compiling third party extensions, why not write it in ruby?
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[12:54:44] erGoline: pwned: nice point ;)
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[12:56:09] pwned: and also good for prototyping/quickly get something up and running before awesomescale(c)
[12:57:27] apeiros: I rather doubt you'll be able to write an http proxy in less than a few hundred lines
[12:57:56] erGoline: apeiros: i didn't test it https://gist.github.com/torsten/74107
[12:58:02] pwned: apeiros: it depends on what features you're typing about.
[12:58:27] apeiros: pwned: you mean you can write a broken http proxy in less than a few hundred lines?
[12:58:59] pwned: apeiros: yes sure. If what you mean by broken is "hasn't got feature X"
[12:59:12] apeiros: no. by broken I mean does not adhere to the specs.
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[12:59:42] erGoline: apeiros: I need to forward the http request, using a regular expression, to another server and get the response. Nothing else
[12:59:47] apeiros: you'll probably need more time to just read the specs than compile an existing http proxy.
[13:00:11] pwned: erGoline: oh no, you didn't adhere to some obscure specs written before millenium
[13:00:30] apeiros: and people wonder why software breaks in the weirdest ways
[13:01:00] apeiros: "specs??? what are they good for???" ????
[13:01:42] erGoline: apeiros: I need to create a proxy form my own specific setup, not a software to release worldwide
[13:02:16] pwned: apeiros: Before you become the champion of reading specs, which anyone can do, let's be reasonable. You are given the task to take http(s) request, slap some headers in and redirect it.
[13:02:34] apeiros: pwned: yeah. no.
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[13:02:47] apeiros: but hey, go ahead and write broken stuff.
[13:03:03] pwned: oh ok no reasoning on IRC
[13:03:16] apeiros: no point. level of ignorance is too high.
[13:03:24] erGoline: for example i'm trying a proof of concept with the Mechanize gem :D >
[13:03:27] erGoline: agent = Mechanize.new; agent.set_proxy '.....', 80; html = agent.get(".....").body; render :text => html, layout: false
[13:03:34] pwned: I'm gonna forward get request, guy says you've gotta read specs on options
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[13:03:58] erGoline: and it's working quite well, of course the traffic I'm testing is quite low (400rpm)
[13:03:58] pwned: guy also asserts that our in-house software which has been working fine is broken
[13:04:16] apeiros: pwned: you don't even know what you're doing wrong because you didn't read the specs.
[13:04:29] apeiros: there's a couple of headers for example which you have to process as a proxy. just as an example.
[13:04:30] pwned: apeiros: I don't believe you can make that judgement.
[13:04:40] apeiros: pwned: but you can?
[13:04:50] apeiros: are you a prophet or something'
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[13:05:46] apeiros: but I'm all ears about you explaining me how you know what things you didn't do wrong without knowing the specs. I'm sure there's some conclusive logic coming???
[13:07:25] erGoline: apeiros: ok, I know that specs are important, but as said by pwned I just need to forward requests, I don't need to identify as proxy neither. Perhaps "http tunnelling" is the correct expression?
[13:07:27] pwned: perhaps I did not explain my intentions. If you don't need to handle parts of the protocol, you don't need to implement them. I didn't mean to say that you don't have to read any specs. Reading is one thing, implementing them is another.
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[13:07:46] apeiros: pwned: and now tell me - how do you know which parts you didn't implement?
[13:08:03] apeiros: and how do you know which parts you don't need to implement?
[13:08:51] apeiros: if you write stuff without reading the specs, all you know is "it does what I want in those N tests I performed". *not a single thing more*.
[13:09:14] apeiros: you don't even know whether it does those N things correctly. only that it does them as you expect it to do them.
[13:09:46] apeiros: so I'm sorry. but saying that reading the specs isn't necessary (even if limited by "if you only implement a part of it") is utter bull.
[13:10:41] pwned: apeiros: well think what you will, I meant implementing specs, not readin specs.
[13:10:43] apeiros: the one case where it is viable is where you explicitly accept that you write broken software.
[13:10:57] apeiros: but claiming that your software isn't broken if you haven't read the spec is again bull.
[13:11:16] apeiros: that's not what you said, though.
[13:11:28] apeiros: I agree on not needing to implement the full spec.
[13:11:39] pwned: good let's continue on then.
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[13:11:55] apeiros: but then we're again at: reading the specs alone will take you more time than compiling existing software.
[13:12:43] pwned: apeiros: are you saying that a person who is completely ignorant of the spec can fully configure a proxy software?
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[13:13:15] pwned: (I've configured plenty but I know a large part of many interlinked rfc documents)
[13:13:20] apeiros: no. but a) unlike reading the spec, reading the full config is usually not necessary with software (since often they come with sensible configs)
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[13:13:34] apeiros: and b) reading config docs usually is quite a bit less time consuming than reading specs.
[13:13:57] pwned: I think it would be ignorant just trying to configure a proxy without knowing any word in the specs.
[13:14:19] apeiros: but implementing a proxy isn't? :-p
[13:14:28] pwned: put that tongue back young man
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[13:16:18] pwned: I'll put it in terms you can understand: using software and implementing it requires knowing stuff. Sometimes making custom software is easier. Just slap in a few headers and you're done. And yes you have to know specs. Bravo for figuring that out on your own.
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[13:16:34] apeiros: "in terms you can understand" is ad hominem and unwelcome.
[13:17:34] pwned: at least it isn't strawman.
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[13:18:20] apeiros: no. it's a sign of lack of arguments and also a sign that I won't continue. have a nice day.
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[13:22:40] pwned: apeiros: well good, arguing your strawmanning wasn't exactly very pleasurable either.
[13:23:14] apeiros: there was no strawman. but as said, I won't continue.
[13:23:31] pwned: nowhere have I said that you shouldn't read specs.
[13:23:31] erGoline: by the way, which specs should I know if I only tunnel bytes and don't want to appear as a real proxy (so config headers, etc)?
[13:25:40] apeiros: pwned: you pretty clearly implied that. yes. and claiming otherwise is rather dishonest.
[13:26:00] pwned: apeiros: well go ahead and paste what I've said.
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[13:26:37] adaedra: is this discussion of yours going anywhere useful for erGoline question?
[13:27:04] apeiros: ?? 14:03 pwned: I'm gonna forward get request, guy says you've gotta read specs on options
[13:27:40] apeiros: (there's multiple other occasions, I see little point in c&p them all)
[13:28:14] apeiros: I think we both know that you indeed meant it that way. but if you want to pretend. sure. I'm done.
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[13:29:08] pwned: well if that's the position you want to take, yes there is no point in arguing with you.
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[13:31:40] shevy: I just came back from shopping - don't stop arguing :)
[13:32:23] pwned: erGoline: just tunnel them and don't act as a proxy at all just to spite apeiros
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[13:34:08] erGoline: pwned: what I was tinking about (not to spite apeiros!)
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[13:35:01] adaedra: erGoline: what's your needs exactly?
[13:35:22] adaedra: what are* rather.
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[13:36:53] shevy: what's are your needs!
[13:37:56] erGoline: adaedra: I have a ruby (Rails) app, I need to forward the traffic hitting the app (fiultered with a regex) to a CDN and have a failever to the app itself
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[13:38:56] erGoline: so I thought to have a proxy/forwarder/tunnel in front of the app, or integrated at rack level
[13:40:59] erGoline: I'm investigating a ruby solution for the second matter and because I would like to have it on Heroku (I can switch the app routing easily)
[13:41:30] adaedra: well, isn't that already what the CDN does, failbacking to your app if they don't have the resource?
[13:42:16] adaedra: also, if traffic goes to your application before going to the CDN, it kinda defeats the CDN purpose?
[13:42:48] erGoline: adaedra: absolutely right observation :) I need this way because I have some problems installing SSL certs on the CDN. So I would like to test a temp, less performant of course, solution
[13:44:21] erGoline: adaedra: the fallback to the main app is because a) I need to cache only some pages b) I can quickly disable the CDN part c) It works even if the CDN goes down
[13:45:05] erGoline: Let's think the CDV as a sort of page caching storage :)
[13:45:15] adaedra: the c) part is supposed to be very unlikely, at least more unlikely than the event of your app going down
[13:45:45] erGoline: adaedra: I know
[13:46:25] adaedra: But anyway
[13:46:29] adaedra: https://github.com/lonre/rack-forward
[13:47:10] erGoline: Actually I'm doing this inside a controller with Mechanize (agent = Mechanize.new; agent.set_proxy '.....', 80; html = agent.get(".....").body; render :text => html, layout: false) and it works nice, but I would like to avoid hitting the controller so I can speed the thing up
[13:47:58] erGoline: adaedra: uh, I missed this, thanks!
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[13:59:35] erGoline: adaedra: do you know if it can be integrated in a rails app, and how?
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[13:59:42] erGoline: hi vadeRcUser
[13:59:44] adaedra: It's a middleware
[14:00:37] vadeRcUser: trying to dust off an old project, IRC client written in ruby =)
[14:00:46] adaedra: So you add it to the rails stack like any other middleware, erGoline
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[14:02:57] erGoline: adaedra: ok so config.middleware.use ...
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[14:05:17] shevy: vadeRcUser isn't that how we all start it - we write an IRC bot in ruby!
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[14:48:14] ilhami: I want to learn Ruby!!!
[14:48:18] ilhami: is it difficult to learn?
[14:48:38] shevy: ilhami lol
[14:48:52] ilhami: I don't like PHP. :/
[14:48:55] ilhami: I want to learn Ruby
[14:49:17] ilhami: even the name Ruby is better than PHP. :/ ugh
[14:49:54] shevy: you need to train more
[14:50:23] ilhami: train more? I haven't trained at all shevy
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[14:50:46] ilhami: do you train a lot?
[14:51:28] shevy: I trained a lot
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[14:51:48] ilhami: Wow then you must be good. :P
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[14:52:25] ilhami: does Ruby has a template engine? :O
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[14:52:56] shevy: please don't follow the path of php
[14:53:43] shevy: it has brought you to this situation
[14:54:37] ilhami: what situation? :/
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[14:55:18] shevy: <ilhami> I don't like PHP. :/
[14:55:26] shevy: did you like forget already from one minute ago
[14:55:41] ilhami: shevy, you sound like someone from Ukraine.. :P
[14:56:09] shevy: you are from the Ukraine?
[14:56:21] ilhami: no no. Denmark.
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[15:46:24] YankNYC: Ox0dea good morning :)
[15:48:22] erGoline: adaedra: I followed your suggestion and I wrote a rack/proxy middleware, ~20 loc, it works nicely :) Thank you for pointing me to the right direction!
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[15:54:55] ilhami: is Ruby bad for bigger projects?
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[15:59:11] erGoline: ilhami: bigger than...?
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[16:01:17] ilhami: erGoline, dunno. Just heard it's not optimal for huge projects.
[16:01:20] ilhami: is that true?
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[16:02:20] havenwood: ilhami: Nope, not true. Lies!
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[16:02:54] erGoline: ilhami: the question is a bit generic, but no :)
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[16:03:56] apeiros: in the opposite. ruby allowing to write succinct code makes it great for huge projects.
[16:04:27] apeiros: if performance is an issue on all fronts, then ruby may not be what you're looking for. but even then it depends.
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[16:04:36] banister: wish ruby had a proper import/module system though..
[16:05:02] apeiros: banister: what things are you thinking of?
[16:05:48] banister: apeiros something like rust/haskell and i guess python (though i dont have much experience with python)
[16:06:05] banister: but the ability to import specific symbols
[16:06:44] apeiros: banister: since I know neither rust nor haskell - you mean e.g. include and specify which methods and constants you want from it?
[16:07:40] banister: obvs u can achieve the same thing in ruby, but it's kind of manual and rquires more discipline
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[16:32:05] ilhami: so Ruby is good for huge projects? eh
[16:33:36] shevy: ilhami are you still using php
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[16:35:25] ilhami: shevy, I am making a wordpress site. After this I will use ruby lol
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[16:38:08] apeiros: ilhami: certainly.
[16:38:39] ilhami: but you need to provide me good material. :P
[16:38:47] ilhami: Are there any good Ruby CMS'?
[16:39:13] apeiros: we don't need to do anything. but if you gently ask, somebody surely will try to help you.
[16:39:36] ilhami: apeiros, what an attitude
[16:39:47] apeiros: precisely what I thought too :-p
[16:40:10] shevy: ilhami sorta semi-ones. depends on how you define CMS. does this work for you https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/projects/ruby-trunk
[16:40:18] apeiros: anyway, there's a couple of ruby CMS' around. can't tell how good they are as I've never used any.
[16:40:20] shevy: it has a wiki too!!!
[16:43:40] ilhami: apeiros, :D
[16:44:00] ilhami: anyway you want me to read the Ruby source? lol
[16:44:48] apeiros: that's up to you. nothing I said implies anything like that, though.
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[16:45:18] ilhami: shevy linked me the source. :P I better find a tutorial
[16:45:35] shevy: you need to start to write ruby code
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[16:46:05] ilhami: what do you think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY7Ps8fqGdc?
[16:46:08] ilhami: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY7Ps8fqGdc ? ***
[16:46:39] ilhami: Ruby on Rails :)
[16:47:01] shevy: you can find them on #rubyonrails
[16:48:33] ilhami: you are not in there
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[16:52:24] _Tariq: What would be the best way to test STDIN?
[16:52:52] _Tariq: I am writing a test to check if a class is reading lines effectively from STDIN. What would work fine?
[16:53:42] _Tariq: for doing this sort of test?
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[16:55:12] shevy: hmmm drbrain said something about that perhaps 2 weeks ago
[16:55:16] shevy: let me find the channel log
[16:56:16] _Tariq: Thanks shevy
[16:56:41] shevy: 2016-01-26 18:55 <drbrain> (you can set $stdout to anything IO-like, but you can only reopen STDOUT to another file)
[16:56:49] shevy: 2016-01-26 18:54 <drbrain> hxegon_: also, use $stdout, not STDOUT because it's easier to write tests for the former
[16:57:02] shevy: hmm don't see more written pertaining to that though
[16:57:30] _Tariq: I can see why many people hate automated tests
[16:57:43] _Tariq: Because already I'm going against best practices by mocking, and now I don't even know how to mock
[16:57:58] _Tariq: I guess now would be a good time to throw you a gist, right?
[16:58:21] shevy: we need to find someone who tests!
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[17:00:06] _Tariq: Do you know anything about StringIO
[17:00:14] _Tariq: specifically how to put lines into it?
[17:00:18] shevy: one can use it to redirect stdout into it
[17:00:19] _Tariq: so that it can actually be read?
[17:00:26] shevy: was it not via << ?
[17:00:36] shevy: and you keep a reference copy to the old $stdout, then you can restore it lateron
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[17:00:50] shevy: that way you can mute the whole output of a ruby program, or redirect it into a file or string
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[17:01:09] shevy: I just copy pasted a strange symbol from a .pdf file ... does anyone see it? :D ?
[17:01:23] _Tariq: I don't see it
[17:01:33] _Tariq: I want to send stuff TO a request
[17:01:40] _Tariq: Yeah, let me write a gist
[17:02:40] _Tariq: https://gist.github.com/tra38/f990c15e07dd3aeb0411
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[17:14:08] shevy: _Tariq skip testing :D
[17:14:48] _Tariq: Yeah, I'll probably have to do that for now then
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[17:16:11] ilhami: shevy, how dare you ? :D
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[17:16:44] shevy: ilhami wat
[17:16:53] ilhami: <shevy> _Tariq skip testing :D
[17:16:55] shevy: ilhami have you even written a single code of ruby so far :P
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[17:18:01] ilhami: shevy, no hahah
[17:18:16] ilhami: one step at a time.
[17:18:18] shevy: test code requires a lot more time investment
[17:18:28] ilhami: so you are against TDD?
[17:18:48] shevy: I am against testing
[17:19:17] _Tariq: By thwat, you mean automated testing, shevy?
[17:19:20] _Tariq: Or is that a joke?
[17:19:25] shevy: _Tariq nope
[17:19:46] shevy: look at what you have to do!
[17:19:50] shevy: it's no fun
[17:19:54] ilhami: this shevy is bossy
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[17:20:17] shevy: if you have to fly to the moon then yeah you should test
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[17:22:41] ilhami: hehe ok ok :)
[17:23:01] shevy: if you have a specification then you should adhere to it
[17:23:06] shevy: if you have a bug then you should get rid of it
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[17:23:29] ilhami: wise words shevy :)
[17:23:42] shevy: ilhami go write ruby!
[17:23:47] Papierkorb: $ rm -rf * # Gets rid of all bugs
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[17:23:59] ilhami: Lol yeah in Linux dists Papierkorb
[17:24:08] ilhami: :D what about in Windows?
[17:24:10] shevy: are you not using linux ilhami?
[17:24:21] Papierkorb: ilhami: Windows is the bug in that case
[17:24:21] shevy: you are making progress!
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[17:24:51] ilhami: you guys are very opinionated.
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[17:29:26] shevy: ilhami hey... you were using php
[17:29:55] shevy: you could have used python
[17:30:17] ilhami: I have tried Python as well.
[17:30:23] ilhami: didn't like it too much.
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[17:30:38] pushcx: Papierkorb: No, it can cause some bugs: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/02/delete_efivars_linux/
[17:31:04] Papierkorb: pushcx: / != *
[17:31:35] Papierkorb: pushcx: and the systemd maintainer wasn't really cooperative on that matter last time I looked at the GH issue on that
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[17:31:46] Papierkorb: Poettering that is
[17:32:58] Papierkorb: Like "hurr we need it! Cause everyone uses 'systemctl reboot --firmware' all the time, and we can't just remount it for that because I don't feel like it!"
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[17:34:15] shevy: welcome to the systemd world
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[17:36:23] ilhami: what's wrong with systemd? :P
[17:36:45] shevy: ilhami dunno, ask on #systemd - we here on #ruby will build a better OS one day!!!
[17:36:52] ilhami: which editor are you guys using for Ruby?
[17:37:23] shevy: still bluefish 1.0.7 ... but I want to move away since... 2 years or so. on my list are... probably... atom... sublime... hmm geany ... not sure yet
[17:37:42] ilhami: I use atom.
[17:37:45] nofxx: systemd made my life 20x easier. I just don't get the hate. It just works.
[17:38:04] nofxx: it's on of those fear of new tech bullshit imho
[17:38:08] ilhami: nofxx, that's what I have heard as well.
[17:38:37] ilhami: what OS are you guys working on?
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[17:39:23] ilhami: "we here on #ruby will build a better OS one day!!!"
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[17:39:50] Papierkorb: Linux as kernel with GNU as userspace tooling
[17:40:09] ilhami: 100% pure GNU does not exist except a few dists.
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[18:46:28] rbennacer: Hey guys, how can i use the fetch method to fetch the value in a 2 dimension array and return nil if the indexes are outbound
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[18:47:16] shevy: the fetch method?
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[18:48:04] rbennacer: yes http://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.0.0/Array.html#method-i-fetch
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[18:49:33] shevy: oh yeah you need to find the particular array first
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[18:49:56] shevy: array = [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]; array[0].fetch 2# => 3
[18:50:30] rbennacer: mmm this will throw an index error if i do array[99].fetch 2
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[18:50:59] shevy: yeah you must not access outside your array
[18:51:10] Papierkorb: >> array = [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]; p array.dig 0, 1 # shevy, rbennacer
[18:51:11] ruby[bot]: Papierkorb: # => 2 ...check link for more (https://eval.in/514214)
[18:51:21] Papierkorb: rbennacer: That requires Ruby 2.3 to work
[18:51:27] shevy: but he wanted the fetch method :(
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[18:52:26] rbennacer: i think dig will do whatever i want
[18:52:31] rbennacer: thank you guys
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[19:49:14] FiredBall-0x71: ACTION http://www.pearltrees.com/pvpeliter/laptop-disini-bought-governor/id15409744#item167481741, , xWindow 10 ENTERPRISE , FREE CLASSIFIED OS FROM THE MOST HIGH HAS BEEN RELEASED , CLICK ON THE LINK THAT POP UP AND CLICK DOWNLOAD ... . DON'T FORGET TO JOIN ##Astara ... .
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[19:50:01] Coraline: !qkick FiredBall-0x71 Spam
[19:50:01] ruby[bot]: ruby[bot] kicked FiredBall-0x71:
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[19:53:39] ruby-lang142: Would a rails dev be kind enough to answer my question on stackoverflow ?
[19:53:40] ruby-lang142: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35242081/rails-how-to-set-persistent-randomized-cookies
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[20:05:44] shevy: yo gandalf
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[20:13:32] rindolf: shevy: THIS. MEANS . WAR!!!
[20:14:08] rindolf: shevy: you've misspelled my name so now you'll have to suffer the consequences.
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[20:56:31] Ox0dea: 1 runs, 1 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors, 0 skips
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[20:56:46] shevy: you testing zero code!
[20:56:55] luckyruby: I'm using a text to speech api that responds with binary audio data. Is there a way to save this data into an mp3 file using the httprb gem?
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[20:57:32] Ox0dea: luckyruby: Just... write the response to a file?
[20:57:48] Ox0dea: `File.write 'foo.mp3', response.body` or the like.
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[21:05:33] lswart: hi all, is there a way to isolate my ruby gem environments? I am using rbenv, but when I have different projects using the same ruby version, it seems that the gem dependencies are shared across both projects. Is there a way to separate the installed gems?
[21:06:20] Ox0dea: lswart: Sounds like you want gemsets.
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[21:06:34] luckyruby: Ox0dea: Ended up using File.syswrite. Thanks.
[21:06:43] Ox0dea: luckyruby: Sure thing.
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[22:02:50] shevy: so what is today on our list of awesome code to write
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[22:03:57] Papierkorb: shevy: A x86 code emulator capable of running basic MS-DOS stuff
[22:04:14] shevy: does not dosbox do that already though?
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[22:04:40] Papierkorb: I'd actually still give it a shot, sounds interesting none the less
[22:06:03] Ox0dea: shevy: The existence of Bash didn't stop you writing diamond_shell. ;)
[22:06:16] Ox0dea: Papierkorb: Inspired by the Museum of Malware, then?
[22:06:26] Ox0dea: *Malware Museum
[22:06:39] Ox0dea: https://archive.org/details/malwaremuseum
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[22:06:44] Papierkorb: Ox0dea: Nah, by that 8086 byte long x86 emulator for a IOCCC some years ago
[22:06:48] Ox0dea: Mikko Hypponen is a pretty cool guy.
[22:07:28] Papierkorb: or it was 4043 Bytes - Don't remember. Was pretty impressive for that
[22:07:41] shevy: Ox0dea yeah, bash would make ruby a second class citizen, I want to have ruby everywhere!
[22:08:13] Ox0dea: shevy: A noble pursuit, to be sure. I imagine Papierkorb is writing his emulator in Ruby. :)
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[22:08:37] shevy: well his project sounds 10000x more advanced
[22:08:41] Papierkorb: Ox0dea: I would to learn how to handle binary data and everything in Ruby.
[22:09:26] Ox0dea: Papierkorb: I briefly considered writing a Chicken compiler. http://torso.me/chicken
[22:09:27] Papierkorb: shevy: Well right now I'm reading the HBCI documentation, German protocol for online home-banking.
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[22:09:38] shevy: that reminds me... I need to look into packing and unpacking arrays again
[22:09:49] Ox0dea: You don't unpack arrays.
[22:11:53] Papierkorb: Actually I think if I'd write the x86 stuff I'd use Crystal to learn it more. And then check how the KVM API works so I can see my host system crashing to my tinkering.
[22:12:50] Ox0dea: Writing a GRUB-bootable "OS" is actually pretty straightforward; it's everything after that's hard. :P
[22:14:33] Papierkorb: Ox0dea: I did manage to get as far as implementin an ELF loader to load/run a program into Ring3 from a EXT2 FS - Does that count?
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[22:16:59] Ox0dea: Papierkorb: I can't say why doing it from ext2 would've been prohibitively difficult, but it sounds like a good time.
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[22:47:57] average: is there some place somewhere that talks about the atomicity of msgsnd and msgget ?
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[22:50:06] Ox0dea: average: #linux, #workingset, and maybe even ##c, if you're feeling bold.
[22:50:30] average: Ox0dea: asked in #c , nobody answered
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[22:57:50] shevy: not even they know
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[22:59:28] kaleido: its the unsolved mystery of programming :(
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[23:03:08] average: actually some annoying guy commented in a weird way
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[23:03:47] average: twkm commented on it, and was completely information-free
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[23:17:38] Ox0dea: ##c is the brood of vipers in Matthew 12:34.
[23:18:36] Papierkorb: and thou shall not visit ##c without RTFM'ing you nub Genesis 13:37
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[23:22:15] georgios: Hey, anyone familiar with Sinatra? I was wondering how the `params` hash gets introduced into the local block scope of the route handler
[23:22:49] georgios: e.g. `get '/hello/:name' do puts params['name'] end`
[23:23:52] lswart: Hi all, I am using rbenv, and trying to use the rbenv-gemset plugin, but I don't know how to create a `.rbenv-gemset` file. Is it the same as a Gemfile? Perhaps someone can show me an example `.rbenv-gemset`? The documentation is a little confusing: https://github.com/jf/rbenv-gemset
[23:25:04] Ox0dea: georgios: Here's a fun experiment: debug-print the value of `method(:params).owner` in your handler.
[23:25:25] Ox0dea: And then remember this trick for the rest of your Ruby days.
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[23:27:39] georgios: Ox0dea: I'm sorry, I'm quite new to ruby, switching from python, what exactly does `method(:params)` do?
[23:27:46] intrigueD: Is it Rack::Utils perchance?
[23:27:50] intrigueD: just a guess
[23:27:55] Ox0dea: It's Sinatra::Base.
[23:28:26] Ox0dea: georgios: The #method method takes a method name and returns a Method object representing that method.
[23:28:39] Ox0dea: Instances of Method can tell you whence they came by way of their #owner method.
[23:28:44] Ox0dea: It's all very straightforward. :P
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[23:29:37] georgios: So `params` is basically a method?
[23:29:52] georgios: owned by Sinatra::Base?
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[23:31:19] Ox0dea: georgios: Well, it's technically an attribute; #attr_reader just wraps a getter method around one or more instance variables.
[23:31:51] georgios: Ox0dea: Hmm, I'm still not sure how it got inside the block, since it doesn't take any arguments
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[23:33:50] Ox0dea: georgios: Try `get('/') { p self.class.ancestors }` to get a sense of what's going on.
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[23:35:24] Ox0dea: Your handler is just a method call on an instance of Sinatra::Application, which includes Sinatra::Base, which has an instance variable named @params, which is made available with a getter provided by #attr_reader.
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[23:39:10] georgios: Whaaaahh help, I'm not used to that crazy stuff coming from Python :D I'm not sure why the `params`-attribute is accessible from my block, do blocks capture the scope in which they are executed?
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[23:40:10] Papierkorb: georgios: Yes, they also usually inherit the 'self' reference
[23:40:18] Ox0dea: georgios: This should help: https://eval.in/514233
[23:41:00] Ox0dea: #instance_eval lets you execute a block "as" some other object, so to speak.
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[23:43:07] georgios: Ah, so running a block via obj#instance_eval executes the block in the context of the obj
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[23:44:43] georgios: Wow, didn't know that... Thank you guys for your patience :)
[23:45:00] Ox0dea: Happy to help. :)
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[23:47:27] georgios: Is this "legit", i.e. are you encouraged to do things like this? To me, it feels more like a 'hack' to be honest...
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[23:47:49] Ox0dea: Might not be the language for you. :/
[23:48:11] Ox0dea: Sinatra is a quintessential example of the purported goodness of DSLs.
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[23:49:20] Ox0dea: Even then, it's pretty bog-standard object-orientation past the syntactically sugary surface layer.
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[23:49:45] Ox0dea: Were you perhaps not exposed to much OO in your experience with Python?
[23:49:58] georgios: Not saying I strictly don't like it, but coming from languages where stuff like this is not possible or not considered good style, I was quite surprised to see something like this ^^
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[23:51:32] georgios: I dealt with some OO in Python, but I had the feeling that it wasn't considered good practice to "mess with" classes/objects too much
[23:52:06] Ox0dea: Then again, both languages let you have it either way.
[23:52:13] Papierkorb: georgios: It's not only common, but more often than not even encouraged to use metaprogramming in Ruby.
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[23:52:47] georgios: I always thought
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[23:53:08] Papierkorb: georgios: Even built-in gems like 'json' add a 'to_json' method to every object in the environment. Because .. it's convenient being able to write whatever.to_json
[23:53:09] georgios: too much of metaprogramming made code difficult to read/reason about
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[23:54:12] georgios: Papierkorb: Yeah, I absolutely do agree that it's really convenient, it's more like a cultural shock for me seeing metaprogramming all over the place
[23:54:14] Papierkorb: georgios: it's actually really about making code readable in the sense of being plainly readable. when you see "something.to_json", even if you have never seen 'to_json' before, you know what's going to happen. Compare it to "JSON.dump something" - do you instantly know what dump does?
[23:54:43] apeiros: adding to_json to all objects isn't really meta-programming
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[23:55:02] Papierkorb: apeiros: Correct, but it adds to the 'culture shock' he's having I guess
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[23:55:11] apeiros: quite likely, yeah
[23:55:16] apeiros: open classes aren't too common
[23:55:28] georgios: Papierkorb: On the other hand, not being sure where all the to_json's come from is rather irritating (at least for me, I like to fully understand what's going on)
[23:55:44] Ox0dea: georgios: But you can just say `foo.method(:to_json).source_location` and be on your way.
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[23:55:58] Ox0dea: In the final analysis, Ruby gives you really sharp scissors and tells you to run.
[23:56:12] Papierkorb: georgios: That is until you know your tools. Pry can instantly tell you where the code comes from, the source itself, show its documentation or (iirc) open your text editor at the specific line(s) directly.
[23:56:16] apeiros: I wish Method#source_location would finally work for native code too :-|
[23:56:24] georgios: Ox0dea: Yeah, I think that captures the spirit really well ;P
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[23:57:08] Ox0dea: georgios: It's a language that holds your hand in a very different way. "You wanna do what?! Well, here's a method for that."
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[23:58:09] Ox0dea: Someone once put it this way: "Ruby is a language for consenting adults."
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