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#ruby - 07 April 2016

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[02:14:22] shevy: the end of the world is near http://blog.rubygems.org/2016/04/06/gem-replacement-vulnerability-and-mitigation.html
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[02:36:58] klka: I installed ruby using rbenv, it is possible to copy the files ~/rbenv to similar linux and run ruby there?
[02:37:46] eam: quite likely, but not necessarily
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[02:37:54] klka: and add it to PATH env?
[02:37:58] klka: what do you mean eam
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[02:39:32] eam: copying compiled binaries between linux systems tends to work for similar architectures and linux versions, but doesn't always
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[02:39:54] eam: it's surprisingly easy to encounter architecture conflicts, even within x86
[02:40:23] eam: or of course, differing library dependencies
[02:41:08] eam: depends on the two systems and how you compiled your rubies
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[02:42:02] goglosh: I have a question
[02:42:05] klka: thanks eam
[02:42:07] goglosh: is irb written in ruby'
[02:42:11] eam: goglosh: yes
[02:42:17] eam: it's very easy to make your own irb!
[02:42:25] goglosh: :) you got me there
[02:42:32] eam: goglosh: ruby -pe1
[02:42:44] eam: there's no prompt, but type in something like 1 + 1
[02:42:52] eam: er oops
[02:43:05] goglosh: ooh I get it
[02:43:16] eam: I mean ruby -pe'$_=eval $_'
[02:43:19] goglosh: well kind of
[02:43:31] eam: -pe1 is just cat
[02:43:32] goglosh: ACTION was wondering what the 1 stood for
[02:43:41] goglosh: anyway, I got the source to ruby but
[02:43:49] goglosh: it doesn't seem to come with that of irb or
[02:43:54] goglosh: anything else really
[02:43:55] eam: -e1 is just a way to give ruby a short program that does nothing
[02:44:14] eam: say, if you only want the effect of the other fancy args like -p
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[02:45:11] eam: goglosh: check lib/irb
[02:45:31] eam: and bin/irb for the stub that executes it
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[02:45:59] goglosh: it's kind of hard to see that with all the *.c files right there at the root dir
[02:46:48] goglosh: several files!
[02:47:24] Ox0ded: goglosh: `ls --group` is good.
[02:47:49] goglosh: didn't know about that switch
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[02:47:58] goglosh: this shall keep me busy for a while
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[02:51:13] goglosh: thanks people
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[02:52:32] goglosh: oh of course .irbrc is a thing
[02:52:36] goglosh: I should've known
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[03:38:17] josephan: I have "lib/poker.rb" that loads another file using located in "lib/poker/round.rb". I am using "require_relative 'poker/round'" to load the second file but I am still getting Uninitialized Constant Error. Is it easy to identify what I did wrong?
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[03:40:47] shevy: josephan if the constant is in that second file, then this means that the file was not loaded
[03:41:28] Ox0ded: josephan: It must be that "poker/round.rb" is using some constant defined in "poker.rb"; you're loading it before the constant exists.
[03:42:07] Ox0ded: You can either separate everything out into "lib/poker/" and just have "poker.rb" require everything in there, or sin a little and have some requires at the bottom of "poker.rb".
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[03:44:38] goglosh: Ox0ded: you once showed me away to see the compiled instructions of ruby code
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[03:45:19] goglosh: what was the module or whatever it was again?
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[03:46:10] Ox0ded: goglosh: I'm sure I did. Sorry about that. :P
[03:46:33] goglosh: don't be. I wanna see that again
[03:46:39] goglosh: even if it means my doom
[03:46:51] Ox0ded: https://eval.in/548937
[03:48:49] Ox0ded: Sure thing. `RubyVM::InstructionSequence.new('17 + 25').to_a` is less noisy if the code you want to check is a String.
[03:49:53] Ox0ded: The format and instruction names have changed slightly between versions, so mind those dragons.
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[03:51:03] goglosh: and say, isthere a way to give single instructions?
[03:52:11] goglosh: nvm let me first understand how this works
[03:53:13] Ox0ded: goglosh: I recently used it to show somebody how to pull the outermost method call out of a block: https://eval.in/541123
[03:53:59] Ox0ded: That'd break on versions prior to 2.2, though, where that instruction was instead called `opt_send_simple`.
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[03:54:42] goglosh: that's hard to read
[03:56:51] goglosh: burakku majiku
[03:57:16] goglosh: I'll stick to the easy stuff for now :`
[03:58:38] Ox0ded: Fair enough. That aspect of Ruby isn't really meant for human consumption.
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[03:59:36] josephan: Ox0ded: Thank you! You were absolutely correct.
[03:59:49] Ox0ded: josephan: Happy to help. :)
[04:00:23] goglosh: why do we have access to it then?
[04:00:33] goglosh: or is it for the AI overlords'
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[04:01:33] Ox0ded: I mean, it's used internally for keeping everything nice and modular. It just so happens that it's exported to userland for the weirdos that want to play with it.
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[04:03:31] goglosh: calling me a weirdo?
[04:03:50] Ox0ded: You just said it wasn't your bag?
[04:04:06] goglosh: I said I'll stick to the human stuff FOR NOW :)
[04:04:22] goglosh: is it weird to want to write in raw ruby bytecode?
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[04:08:46] shevy: depends on what you want to do
[04:08:53] shevy: what do you want to do with these instructions?
[04:10:54] goglosh: a debuggger
[04:11:01] goglosh: (but as I said I'm not ready yet)
[04:12:09] shevy: well that would fit then I suppose
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[05:34:26] fschuindt: Hello folks, any tip on how to build a monitor for a certain screen position (looking for changes). Like a sensor that will fire off when determined area in the screen changes.
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[07:13:33] ag4ve: i'm not sure what ruby doesn't like with these groups - it seems to be having issues with '-' and ',' in them http://sprunge.us/BYeP
[07:13:48] ag4ve: but idk how to fix it
[07:14:25] ag4ve: also it doesn't seem to like my use of \( which is weird
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[07:17:13] ag4ve: (i'm coming from the perl world - trying to create a chef ohai plugin - so it's probable i've got other issues the lexer hasn't gotten to but the regex stuff is stumping me)
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[07:24:25] Ox0ded: ag4ve: You totally found a bug.
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[07:25:05] Ox0ded: The '/' in "user/group" on Line 41 isn't being interpreted as part of the comment.
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[07:27:12] ag4ve: seriously?
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[07:27:32] Ox0ded: Well, removing it does away with all the syntax errors.
[07:28:18] ag4ve: ha, well, ok i guess that'x my fix then - y'all got a bugs ml?
[07:28:45] ag4ve: or if you want to handle it since i don't really know ruby...
[07:29:16] Ox0ded: I'm trying to see whether it's documented behavior, but that seems unlikely.
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[07:30:32] ag4ve: my first ruby script and i trip over it :)
[07:30:51] Ox0ded: Leave it to a Perler. :P
[07:31:08] adaedra: ACTION resuscitates Ox0ded 
[07:31:20] Ox0ded: Morning, adaedra.
[07:31:27] Ox0dea: And thank you kindly.
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[07:31:41] adaedra: My pleasure.
[07:32:07] Ox0dea: I'd been dead ever since somebody mistyped my call sign as "Delta Echo Delta".
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[07:34:38] ag4ve: btw, while i'm here - any easy way to concatinate lines from a file when the last ended in '\' ?
[07:35:15] ag4ve: (i'm pretty sure i don't handle command lines w/ comments at the end either, but...)
[07:36:20] Caerus: maan... sinus infection and studying ruby (or anything for that matter) don't go along :(
[07:37:24] ag4ve: line.gsub(/#.*/,'') will be fine wrt comments in command lines - i have no idea how to concatinate w/ the next line when the last char is '/' though
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[07:38:12] Ox0dea: ag4ve: `lines.each_cons(2)` lets you process them pair-wise.
[07:39:51] Ox0dea: ag4ve: So, er, I guess /foo/ Regexp literals really ought to permit /s in comments, but it probably makes everything gnarlier than is warranted for something so small.
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[07:40:11] Ox0dea: If you're dead-set on having the slash in, `%r{foo} == /foo/`.
[07:40:22] djellemah: ag4ve: I'd use a custom Enumerator for concatenating lines, but that might be overkill if you're new at ruby.
[07:40:49] Ox0dea: Aye, you'd ideally want to walk them individually and maintain a simple state machine.
[07:41:01] Ox0dea: But doing it with #each_cons is dirty and exciting. :P
[07:41:50] djellemah: :-O right up perler's street...
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[07:56:24] djellemah: ag4ve: if you feel like doing a bug report https://redmine.ruby-lang.org/
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[07:58:24] Ox0dea: Heh: https://git.io/vVKEr
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[08:05:28] ag4ve: ah thanks - i'll make the bug report so it's known - now that i know, i don't much care if it's fixed
[08:05:51] ag4ve: though i would've assumed the parser would stop looking after # anyway
[08:06:16] ag4ve: well, # outside of character classes and not \#
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[08:07:37] ag4ve: iirc i saw a (?#...) for comments in the middle of a regex which seemed weird to me, but i guess that's your third edge case
[08:09:29] Ox0dea: ag4ve: Well, when you think about it, you have to escape every other slash if you're using a /foo/ Regexp.
[08:09:38] Ox0dea: I'm not sure whether that rule should be broken for embedded comments.
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[08:11:26] Ox0dea: Onigmo *could* permit raw slashes in character classes, but it would unduly complicate things, and I think the same logic can be applied for comments.
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[08:16:21] ag4ve: my issue is parsing after a bare # w/ /x - after it hits # it shouldn't try any farther
[08:17:47] ag4ve: idk if there are any unicode or ebdic cases that i'm not considering (i don't think so) but...
[08:18:32] ag4ve: (or if ruby even compiles on a mainframe :P )
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[08:29:36] manveru: ag4ve: it's more likely to be a bug in oniguruma
[08:29:51] manveru: though ruby forked that, so in the end it's up to matz and co to fix it :)
[08:31:04] Ox0dea: I don't think anything's broken. :x
[08:31:26] Ox0dea: The comments are still "part of" the Regexp, and so have their syntax slightly constrained.
[08:32:04] manveru: oh wait, it's working with %r?
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[08:32:28] manveru: then, nevermind, didn't read all the history ^^;
[08:33:54] ag4ve: i guess then the constraint should at least be documented (though that wouldn't've helped me - i wouldn't've thought to look at a comment constraint)
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[08:35:36] ag4ve: btw, is %r{...} considered the "right way" vs /.../ ?
[08:35:59] manveru: usually, yeah
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[08:36:31] manveru: %r() or %r{} or %r[] or %r!! or %r%% or %r@@ or ...
[08:36:36] Ox0dea: https://github.com/bbatsov/ruby-style-guide#percent-r
[08:36:38] manveru: you'll feel right at home from perl :)
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[08:39:36] ag4ve: from perl, not really used to doing m/.../ when i just want a simple (well, ok - simple-ish) regex - but different language - i'll adapt
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[08:42:23] ag4ve: <rant> kinda sucks though that i work w/ ruby devs that couldn't help w/ this - i'm a sysadmin, not a dev </rant>
[08:43:17] Ox0dea: I just... looked at the line number of the first error?
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[08:48:24] tobiasvl: ag4ve: if your ruby devs couldn't help you with that they should be fired. ;P
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[09:34:36] ag4ve: how do i declare w/ a boolean like: cap['type'] = (cap['type'] = '%' ? 'group' : 'user')
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[09:35:10] ag4ve: not sure if == should be eq either
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[09:35:59] tobiasvl: well the second = should probably be ==
[09:36:19] ag4ve: cap['type'] = (cap['type'] == '%' ? 'group' : 'user')
[09:37:33] tobiasvl: that looks good
[09:37:37] Ox0dea: It's... syntactically valid. :P
[09:37:38] ag4ve: and yeah, that's not working - it should, right?\
[09:38:17] Ox0dea: >> cap = {'type' => '%'}; cap['type'] = (cap['type'] == '%' ? 'group' : 'user'); cap
[09:38:19] ruby[bot]: Ox0dea: # => {"type"=>"group"} (https://eval.in/549117)
[09:38:45] Ox0dea: It's pretty gross, though; why is `cap['type'] == '%'` ever the case?
[09:39:03] ag4ve: man sudoers :P
[09:39:21] ag4ve: i didn't make up their syntax
[09:40:01] Ox0dea: Ah, yeah, fair enough.
[09:40:18] tobiasvl: ag4ve: how is it not working though?
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[09:43:08] ag4ve: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8866693
[09:43:26] ag4ve: works w/o that line
[09:44:37] ag4ve: also tried it in parens
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[09:45:41] ag4ve: mmmm, i wonder if i should be testing defined?
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[09:46:11] ag4ve: or == nil
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[09:48:11] norc: Ox0dea: Working with grammars I have come to realise wonderful things.
[09:48:52] norc: Like did you know that "void;" is a syntactically legal declaration in C...
[09:48:53] workmad3_: ag4ve: the problem appears to be that `cap` is a MatchData object from a regexp match... and that doesn't support `[]=` (which is what `cap["foobar"] = <something>` does)
[09:49:05] ag4ve: meh, == nil doesn't work either - something else that idk
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[09:49:57] ag4ve: oooo, of course i can't redefine that - yeah that makes perfect sense - doh
[09:50:28] Ox0dea: ag4ve: Of course you can. It'd just be a really weird thing to do. :P
[09:50:35] ag4ve: so, how do i copy cap into a plain array of strings?
[09:50:49] Ox0dea: &ri MatchData#captures ag4ve
[09:50:49] `derpy: ag4ve: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.3.0/MatchData.html#method-i-captures
[09:51:05] Ox0dea: norc: I mean, `return;` is secretly `return void;`, right?
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[09:51:49] norc: Ox0dea: That would not be legal.
[09:52:42] norc: The statement mentioned above is actually a declaration (that does not declare anything, so decent compilers will just ignore it)
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[09:53:10] Ox0dea: > warning: useless type name in empty declaration
[09:53:14] Ox0dea: When is it not useless?
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[09:53:52] norc: It never is. Its just an artifcat of the LALR syntax.
[09:54:39] norc: Its unavoidable without making the syntax involving declarations a lot more complicated.
[09:54:45] gregf_: >> str = "foo bar baz"; /(?<Foo>\w+)\s+(?<Bar>\w+)\s+(?<Baz>\w+)/ =~ str; [ Foo,Bar, Baz]
[09:54:46] ruby[bot]: gregf_: # => uninitialized constant Foo (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/549124)
[09:55:08] Ox0dea: gregf_: Locals only. :)
[09:55:26] gregf_: agave: str = "foo bar baz"; str =~ /(?<f>\w+)\s+(?<b>\w+)\s+(?<baz>\w+)/; p $~.captures # i know that in Perl that would be just list context
[09:55:42] Ox0dea: Someone on the mailing list wants instance variables to be valid there.
[09:56:17] gregf_: ooh. sorry
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[10:21:21] ag4ve: so it seems captures doesn't work w/ named captures (docs say it returns an array)
[10:21:53] ag4ve: and $~.captures obviously does the same as my 'cap.captures'
[10:23:02] ag4ve: so, idk if i missed it, but how do i copy the elements of my named capture into a hash/unordered array/whatever it's called here
[10:23:12] ag4ve: oh cool, it's still a hash :)
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[10:24:49] Ox0dea: And they're ordered!
[10:25:08] Ox0dea: >> /(?<word>\w+?)(?<num>\d+)/ =~ 'abc123'; $~.named_captures
[10:25:10] ruby[bot]: Ox0dea: # => undefined method `named_captures' for #<MatchData "abc123" word:"abc" num:"123"> (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/549137)
[10:26:04] Ox0dea: &ri MatchData#named_captures
[10:26:04] `derpy: No results
[10:26:59] Ox0dea: I can't believe that's a Ruby 2.4 thing. :(
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[10:29:18] Ox0dea: ag4ve: You'll have to say `$~.names.zip($~.captures).to_h`. :/
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[10:37:14] ag4ve: wfm - it's in a chef env, so iirc i'm on 2.1 anyway
[10:37:49] ag4ve: well, wfm but yeah, kinda ugly
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[10:39:33] gregf_: ag4ve: args = %w|foo bar baz|;str = "foo bar baz"; /(?<foo>\w+)\s+(?<bar>\w+)\s+(?<baz>\w+)/ =~ str; p [ foo,bar, baz].zip(args).to_h <== like that
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[10:51:40] blackmesa: hi all. Should I rather use 'Time.current.to_date' or 'Date.current' for todays date?
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[10:52:09] Ishido: Isn't that "Date.today" ?
[10:52:16] Ishido: (not checked)
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[10:53:06] workmad3: blackmesa: if you're in rails, `Date.current` is your best bet... if you're in plain ruby, `Date.today`
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[10:53:45] workmad3: (Date.today will use the system locale's timezone, Date.current in rails will pay attention to Time.zone)
[10:53:52] Ishido: (oh yes, I forgot RoR, sorry)
[10:53:55] blackmesa: thx Ishido workmad3 for quick response
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[10:54:12] Ishido: If it helped you...
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[12:36:12] Urs0: Hello. :)
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[12:55:40] jhass: more or less
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[13:44:03] DefV: I want a function to have the signature "meta(property: 'og:description')", but I feel doing `def meta(fields); prop, field = fields.to_a[0]; end` is quite dirty. Is there a better way?
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[14:19:58] ag4ve: i notice most (everything?) inherrits nil? but i can't seem to put that inline with another method: $1.nil?.gsub(...)
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[14:21:05] canton7: .nil? returns true or false
[14:21:08] ag4ve: i guess what i'm asking is if there's a way to only use a method if the variable is defined?
[14:21:19] canton7: and booleans don't have the method gsub
[14:21:46] ag4ve: yeah, that makes sense
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[14:22:02] Papierkorb: ag4ve: With Ruby2.3: the_variable&.gsub(..)
[14:22:05] atmosx: ag4ve if you could post a code snippet would be asier
[14:22:57] Papierkorb: ag4ve: Without Ruby2.3: the_variable && the_variable.gsub(...) # Functionally almost identical. Identical if you don't chain-call another method
[14:24:27] ag4ve: so, a declaration from a regex match would be like foo = ($1 && $1.gsub(/[\t ]*, '')) ?
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[14:24:44] ag4ve: mmm, nm - i can tias too - thanks :)
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[14:25:35] Papierkorb: ag4ve: Depends.
[14:25:47] Papierkorb: as in: Yes, but maybe there's a better way
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[14:31:26] ag4ve: i see what i'm running into gsub is overwriting the previous regex's $1,$2,... variables
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[14:32:37] ag4ve: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8866757
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[14:35:07] Papierkorb: ag4ve: Don't use $1 for that. String#match returns a MatchData object (as indicated in irb), which offers you caught variables
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[14:59:10] zomba: Beginner question(s): I have class Item, and a method self.print_items Try to call it in class TodoList, but it blows up.
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[14:59:58] zomba: undefined method 'each' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
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[15:03:08] apeiros: ?code zomba
[15:03:08] ruby[bot]: zomba: We can't help you without your code, please post it to https://gist.github.com
[15:04:33] zomba: https://gist.github.com/c0ldT/5d2db8590da32c36bb73e59982d85ba2
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[15:19:58] zomba: big 'ol network problems this morning...
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[15:25:21] djellemah: zomba: self.print_todo is a class method. Which in your case means that the @items it uses is not the one that you assign in TodoList.initialize
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[15:42:44] agent_white: Mornin' folks
[15:42:44] zomba: I need print_items defined in class Item, but callable in class TodoList
[15:43:21] zomba: self.print_todo works fine in class TodoList
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[15:46:12] zomba: ACTION is woozy..
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[15:47:45] apeiros: zomba: sorry, got called away and thought it'd only be a minute :-|
[15:48:03] zomba: Oh, no worries.
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[15:48:45] apeiros: I'll probably be back in ~1h, I hope I have time then, or that somebody else can help you in the meantime
[15:50:45] zomba: I gotta get on taking a shower and running to pay the mortgage, right now, so the timing lines up
[15:52:46] jhack: zoomba: what’s the issue?
[15:52:53] jhack: maybe i can help, not sure tho lol
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[15:53:31] jhack: self.print_items defined in Item should be callable in TodoList
[15:53:39] jhack: through Item.print_items, i think
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[17:00:00] zomba: so... class metthods can't be called from inside other class methods?
[17:00:20] eam: zomba: why not?
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[17:01:17] eam: >> class Foo; def self.bar; "bar"; end; end; class Baz; def self.qux; Foo.bar; end; end; Baz.qux
[17:01:18] ruby[bot]: eam: # => "bar" (https://eval.in/549452)
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[17:04:09] zomba: def self.bar; self.baz; end
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[17:05:39] eam: zomba: well, "self" is going to be the class you're in
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[17:05:58] eam: when you say class Foo; def self.bar; end -- this is just shorthand for saying def Foo.bar
[17:06:21] eam: it's nice to say self because if you change the name of Foo stuff Just Works
[17:06:27] eam: you're not repeating yourself
[17:06:39] eam: but if you want to explicitly name some other class you can totally do that
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[17:08:24] Saint_Philomena: I have one question about ruby. I`m newbie.
[17:08:34] eam: >> class Foo; end; some_variable = Foo; def some_variable.bar; "see?" end; Foo.bar
[17:08:34] zomba: No I'm not talking about that
[17:08:36] ruby[bot]: eam: # => "see?" (https://eval.in/549454)
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[17:09:12] zomba: def Foo.bar; Foo.baz; end
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[17:10:26] Saint_Philomena: Why if i put ---> puts "Olá" [This it dont work and the script goes down]
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[17:18:04] eam: Saint_Philomena: that should be fine
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[17:21:26] smathy: Saint_Philomena, are you using ruby 1.9 maybe?
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[17:23:57] smathy: ACTION always thought that syntax should be: `self.class.def bar ...`
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[17:26:05] eam: smathy: but self.class is always going to be Class
[17:26:15] eam: (I should say usually)
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[17:30:42] smathy: Yeah, I suppose you'd need something else, self.prototype.def ;)
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[17:31:26] smathy: ...my point was just that the syntax would make more sense to me if you adjusted what `def` was "called on" (I know it's not a regular method in current implementation) rather than changing the arg to def.
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[18:09:59] jyaworski: Hey all. Anyone using savon? I've passed my path to :wsdl, but in the logs it shows me it's querying 8443 instead of my specified port in the URI.
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[18:12:41] Kanibal: Hey there. Does anybody know, what this line: https://github.com/kschiess/parslet/blob/master/example/ignore.rb#L3 does?
[18:12:58] Kanibal: I've never seen the $:.-operator-thingy in ruby.
[18:13:31] apeiros: Kanibal: $: is $LOAD_PATH
[18:14:13] Kanibal: Are those magic variables documented somewhere?
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[18:14:19] apeiros: ?quickref Kanibal
[18:14:20] ruby[bot]: Kanibal: http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/QuickRef.html
[18:14:33] Kanibal: Alright, thanks!
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[18:43:25] A124: How do I add Math.radians(Numeric) into Math?
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[18:43:47] A124: I tried refine, but it complains that it expected a class, not module.
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[18:48:23] klka: Hi where can I see what is the meaning of each status value in rb_protect()
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[18:59:49] apeiros: A124: module Math; module_function; def radians(val); …code…; end; end
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[19:05:47] shevy: really weird that one has to specify class or module upon redefinition
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[19:09:20] Guest21: hi there, anyone familiar with thin memory issues? our thin instances are going beyond 1GB of RES memory :-/
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[19:30:47] pizzaops: I often do things like this when I want to set a default value for an instance variable (or just something inside a method in general) but still allow it to be overridable: https://gist.github.com/pizzaops/2f91371ff7a00edee6a09fbdc3035c0d
[19:30:54] pizzaops: Is that actually idiomatic? Is there a "better" way?
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[19:32:46] shevy: depends on how much your reader method would do
[19:32:52] shevy: in this case you don't even use it
[19:32:57] shevy: erm setter
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[19:33:40] pizzaops: Yeah I really just need a attr_reader here, but that's not really my question
[19:33:55] pizzaops: I'm more asking about my use of param=nil and ||
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[19:34:43] Ox0dea: pizzaops: Why not use default arguments as intended?
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[19:36:13] pizzaops: Ox0dea: that's...a good point
[19:36:17] pizzaops: I'm not sure why!
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[19:37:40] pizzaops: Ox0dea: you're 100% right . . . I don't remember what got me on this path.
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[19:38:03] pizzaops: There was some point where normal defaults weren't good enough but I don't remember why anymore, and I think I just kept doing this weird pattern even when not necessary
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[19:38:19] Ox0dea: pizzaops: Be free of your cargo cult.
[19:38:33] pizzaops: Ox0dea: the funny thing about it in this case was I was cargo-culting *myself*
[19:38:48] pizzaops: Thanks, as usual!
[19:38:55] Ox0dea: Sure thing. ^_^
[19:39:03] Ox0dea: Good on ya for self-medicating, as it were.
[19:40:56] Ox0dea: pizzaops: For your edification, a pattern of which to be both aware and wary: https://eval.in/549533
[19:42:52] a1fa: is it possible to have a has_many with additional scope?
[19:42:57] a1fa: wrong channel
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[19:54:14] djellemah: I have this perception that DRb is ... not production-ready, slightly flaky. But, I can't find any solid information on the matter.
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[19:57:27] shevy: drb is very old
[19:58:11] shevy: since at the least 1.8.6 http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.8.6/libdoc/drb/rdoc/DRb.html but I think it is much older than that too, can't get these docs for below 1.8.6 though
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[20:00:41] djellemah: Maybe it works really well, and doesn't need fixing. I've used it, and I didn't have any trouble. But that was for a test-harness.
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[20:03:50] A124: ACTION thanks apeiros, also now searching module_function bumped into this http://stackoverflow.com/a/11551307
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[20:12:13] djellemah: The closest I could get is a mention that DRb is widely used in Japan. So my english language google searches wouldn't turn up much.
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[20:28:41] shevy: yeah, ruby's old problem - english documentation
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[20:37:34] djellemah: Yeah, so try it and see what happens. I would do that, but unfortunately it's not my production system.
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[20:38:13] apeiros: djellemah: drb is very much production ready
[20:38:22] apeiros: and as shevy said, it exists for quite a while too
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[20:38:40] apeiros: A124: module_function is to be preferred over extend self.
[20:38:57] apeiros: and for reference - all the other methods in Math are module_function too
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[20:42:04] djellemah: apeiros: Good to hear. Have you used it in that context? You know anyone who has?
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[20:54:18] someish: What’s going on in a ruby class when a method is called from outside one of the methods in that class? For example, in PHP or Java, you can’t just call a function or method inside a class declaration, but outside a method declaration.
[20:55:56] someish: See here for an example: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5836664896d50eea0a316c5d47e0fa62
[20:57:50] baweaver: You might join #RubyOnRails
[20:57:58] Ox0dea: It's a Ruby question.
[20:58:01] weaksauce: someish class is like a function that has a block
[20:58:02] baweaver: but the gist of it is that they're macro methods that define methods on that class
[20:58:24] weaksauce: similar to a block*
[20:58:35] baweaver: Ox0dea: Oh I know, but it involves Rails to an extent which is why I said might instead of should
[20:58:56] Ox0dea: someish: Just a sec.
[20:58:59] someish: I think I’m in the right place.
[20:59:22] someish: So it’s called a macro method?
[20:59:37] Ox0dea: someish: https://eval.in/549553
[20:59:37] weaksauce: someish you can puts/other method calls inside a class definition too.
[21:00:00] Ox0dea: someish: It's "metaprogramming", but not macros.
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[21:01:18] weaksauce: someish https://eval.in/549556
[21:01:58] someish: Interesting.
[21:02:53] Ox0dea: In a nutshell, class bodies get executed like any other code; it's just that `self` is the Class itself if you're not within a method.
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[21:03:14] someish: Ox0dea: I don’t know how I should feel about that.
[21:03:19] someish: It’s so foreign to me.
[21:03:53] weaksauce: someish once you get that concept and the fact that you can define methods programmatically rails becomes less magical
[21:04:06] Ox0dea: someish: It's pretty nifty, honestly, but Ruby does give you scissors and trust you to run carefully. :P
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[21:04:21] someish: That’s a good way of putting it.
[21:04:51] someish: I was actually complaining to a co-worker today about the magic.
[21:05:05] someish: It’s a blessing and a curse.
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[21:05:13] weaksauce: all those special methods in rails do are create some methods based on the inputs you give it.
[21:05:31] weaksauce: like has_many :something
[21:06:05] someish: So it’s essentially creating methods on itself at runtime?
[21:06:22] Ox0dea: It can certainly do that, but that's not what's happening in your example.
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[21:06:39] Ox0dea: Classes can define the #inherited hook to do whatever they want with some class that inherits them.
[21:07:10] weaksauce: someish http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveRecord/Associations/ClassMethods.html
[21:07:28] weaksauce: the auto-generated methods shows you what it makes
[21:07:42] shevy: djellemah it was mentioned in the old pickaxe; I guess 10 years ago perhaps you may have seen more examples on the www for it :)
[21:09:46] Ox0dea: You can define methods on anything from anywhere at any time. Please think responsibly.™
[21:10:13] someish: That’s very cool.
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[21:10:33] someish: Thanks everyone. That clears up quite a bit for me.
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[21:10:57] eam: you can create an object that shuffles its own methods every time a method on it is called
[21:11:03] weaksauce: Ox0dea and delete them too
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[21:11:42] weaksauce: is there a more malleable language out there?
[21:11:52] eam: sure, perl
[21:12:03] eam: or C :)
[21:12:04] weaksauce: that people can read later? :P
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[21:12:29] eam: don't get me started because I'll say "perl is more readable than ruby" and then we'll just be arguing
[21:12:49] Ox0dea: Except I have a picture to dispel that argument with considerable haste. :)
[21:13:05] Papierkorb: Ox0dea: “I don't believe you”?
[21:13:05] eam: I can write ruby uglier than any perl you can write
[21:13:16] Ox0dea: eam: You mistook me.
[21:13:28] eam: Ox0dea: oooooh
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[21:13:35] Ox0dea: http://i.imgur.com/94jou4v.png
[21:13:36] eam: indeed please, display your picture
[21:13:57] eam: is that valid perl too, btw?
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[21:14:06] Ox0dea: Could well be.
[21:14:31] Ox0dea: A polyglot Sinatra app would be interesting.
[21:14:37] eam: one big reason perl's more malleable: you can change the class of an object
[21:14:59] Ox0dea: You can do that with Fiddle.
[21:15:03] someish: This is pretty useful: https://pragmaticstudio.com/blog/2015/4/14/ruby-macros
[21:15:06] eam: yeah well, cheating
[21:15:24] Ox0dea: Yeah, but it speaks to your mention of C as being quite malleable at any rate.
[21:15:41] eam: I'd argue it's explicitly in scope for C
[21:15:50] Ox0dea: I wouldn't contest.
[21:16:00] eam: but then how will we keep this conversation going
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[21:16:10] Ox0dea: Well, someish just suggested that Ruby has macros.
[21:16:24] eam: brainfuck needs an extension to enable the addressing of the code segment
[21:16:54] Ox0dea: eam: There's a derivative that maintains two tapes, I think.
[21:16:59] Ox0dea: Probably several of 'em, even.
[21:17:02] eam: can I execute on one of the tapes?
[21:17:09] Ox0dea: Of course; that's largely the point.
[21:17:12] eam: love it
[21:17:24] eam: don't need two tapes though, what luxury
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[21:17:41] eam: just give me a pointer to myself
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[21:18:48] Ox0dea: "Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the code and the data."
[21:19:56] shevy: just change the nucleotides!
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[21:24:03] Ox0dea: eam: You could leverage this (remarkably tiny!) interpreter to have `eval` in brainfuck: http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/dbfi.b
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[21:24:48] Ox0dea: I tend to nope right out of trying to figure out what's going on when I see more than 4 consecutive >s.
[21:25:47] apeiros: djellemah: I define all pseudo functions that way (utility methods with no reference to self)
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[21:26:25] eam: why's four > so bad
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[21:27:34] Ox0dea: It just means that there's a lot of state to keep track of.
[21:28:24] Ox0dea: I know how to get to a fresh cell and go back to whence I came, but it's hard to get back and forth between specific cells.
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[21:29:42] Ox0dea: Nice space heater.
[21:30:02] eam: nah it's just IO.read
[21:30:25] Ox0dea: Depends on how it handles EOF.
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[21:30:51] eam: eof always returns zero
[21:31:02] Ox0dea: That's implementation-defined.
[21:31:21] Ox0dea: Good interpreters are supposed to signal "no change" for EOF.
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[21:33:31] eam: zero for eof all the way
[21:33:44] Ox0dea: https://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck#EOF
[21:33:51] Ox0dea: There is an objectively superior alternative.
[21:34:12] eam: it's important to consider developer ease of use when discussing brainfuck architecture
[21:35:12] Ox0dea: In much the same way that Malbolge was designed for programmer unhappiness.
[21:36:11] Ox0dea: Same same, but different. But still same.
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[22:32:40] zomba: Now that I've had some sleep -
[22:32:47] zomba: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/07a5f696c1b273517098b4fcc5af6c6d
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[22:33:23] zomba: say_both no worky
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[22:34:13] atm0sphere: can one use ruby gem in ruby program?
[22:34:30] atm0sphere: generally we use gem in rails
[22:36:08] shevy: atm0sphere yeah. gems are usually pure ruby code. whenever you use ruby, you can use/require gems (and use them if they are installed)
[22:36:11] zomba: requiring a gem? Sure
[22:36:48] atm0sphere: if not installed then?
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[22:37:17] zomba: Catch the exception and install gem
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[22:37:20] atm0sphere: actually I AM writtng a code which will give he similarity percentage if two text file
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[22:38:02] Ox0dea: atm0sphere: "A program" or "some code", and never the twain shall meet.
[22:39:56] Ox0dea: zomba: Worky fine? https://eval.in/549579
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[22:41:52] zomba: Dammit... why did it blow up on me?
[22:42:33] Ox0dea: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:42:34] shevy: atm0sphere if it is not installed then of course you can not use it :)
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[22:42:48] zomba: Sorry for the time waster
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[22:44:59] zomba: That's an interesting problem with gem install though (for me). Can rescue exception and install gem, but a require after that fails. But running the code again succeeds
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[22:45:32] Ox0dea: Installing gems in a rescue clause is pretty cruel.
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[22:47:26] zomba: It was a "ensure_gem_is_installed" method idea
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[22:49:26] shevy: you mean to install the gem when it is not available at runtime?
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[22:52:19] zomba: I need to decide on a permanent nickname and register it...
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[23:01:29] VeryBewitching: It'd be cool to have a small zombie-ant-farm
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[23:02:51] shevy: there was once a mini-ant game in ruby-gnome
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[23:04:39] shevy: awww this was the old announcement... but the code is gone :( http://www.thecodingforums.com/threads/ann-help-requested-a-nerdy-multiplayer-game-ants.816982/
[23:05:17] shevy: I have a local copy... but I think I tried to update it for modern ruby and gnome and happily broke it in the process before abandoing it
[23:07:15] VeryBewitching: It's sad when code goes off to die.
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[23:11:26] greenride: Is there any way to prevent rdoc, maruku, or RedCloth from transforming a Unicode+0022 quotation mark into a Unicode+201 quotation mark?
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[23:31:35] aspiers: what do most gem authors typically use for creating new gems?
[23:31:48] aspiers: I'm creating my first gem after years of hacking on other people's
[23:32:10] aspiers: I'm trying hoe but the output looks non-standard and out-of-date (e.g. creates an .autotest file)
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[23:38:11] aspiers: it also creates README.txt which isn't in a plaintext format
[23:38:45] aspiers: that's fairly crazy - most gems have README.md these days
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[23:40:24] aspiers: oh, looks like hoe is dead. maybe jeweler then?
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[23:41:17] nickjj: i just use bundle
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[23:42:17] aspiers: as in, bundle gem?
[23:42:47] nchambers: are questions about the god program offtopic herer?
[23:43:12] nickjj: aspiers, type: bundle gem foo , and then answer a few of the questions
[23:43:27] aspiers: nickjj: apparently "gem new" was fashionable in 2014 http://live.julik.nl/2014/11/why-stick-to-jeweler
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[23:44:10] nickjj: i don't really care about fashion, i use what works. in 5 seconds bundle gem foo will generate the boilerplate to create a new gem
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[23:44:41] aspiers: I'm sure they all work
[23:44:41] nickjj: readmes, travis support, the git repo, etc. -- it's all stuff i would do by hand anyways
[23:44:48] aspiers: that's a good article
[23:44:55] aspiers: yes, I tend to do stuff by had
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[23:45:09] aspiers: but starting with some boilerplate can be useful for saving time and being consistent
[23:45:44] nickjj: right, which is what bundle gem <gemname> provides you, it gives you all the boilerplate so you can start cranking out your gem code asap
[23:45:53] aspiers: http://postmodern.github.io/2012/05/20/you-dont-have-to-use-bundler-to-create-new-rubygems.html
[23:46:19] nickjj: i don't see too much of a point to go beyond that, mainly because it's not like creating gem boilerplate is going to be your bottleneck
[23:46:26] nickjj: it's something you do every once in a while
[23:47:00] postmodern: `bundle gem` is pretty terrible imho
[23:47:24] aspiers: haven't tried it yet, but already ditched hoe
[23:47:37] postmodern: the templates started out as the bare minimum, but they began adding things like bin/console
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[23:47:53] postmodern: there's a couple gem generators already, that focus on configurability
[23:48:06] postmodern: like adding all your fancy badges and test-suite stub files
[23:48:23] aspiers: ore looks like it might be nice
[23:48:44] nickjj: you might as well just roll your own 10 line bash file
[23:48:53] nickjj: then you can quickly add the files/folders you want
[23:48:58] nickjj: and move on with life!
[23:49:32] aspiers: nickjj: obviously I need to teach you a thing or two about how to procrastinate properly :)
[23:49:54] nickjj: i just looked at the last gem i made. its boilerplate has 6 files and 2 folders
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[23:51:00] nickjj: haha yeah i know what you mean aspiers, i used to be a champion procrastinator
[23:51:08] postmodern: nickjj, it's the small things that get you over time
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[23:58:38] aspiers: ore seems nicer the closer I look at it, kudos
[23:58:49] aspiers: postmodern: can I do "mine ." on an existing repo?
[23:58:54] aspiers: I guess I should just try
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