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#ruby - 29 May 2016

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[00:05:49] phredus_: tomboy64: could you take a look please https://bpaste.net/show/8aed27a2cdcf trouble starting X. thank you
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[01:28:33] razer_: Does anyone know if/what I can install to get iOS development tools installed without installing the xcode IDE?
[01:29:06] razer_: I know there is the command line tools, but I think I already have that and that is more for compiling on mac and other stuff
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[01:29:56] razer_: The full iOS simulator, iOS SDK etc. I went to developer.apple, but I'm not sure what to download and it seems the iOS SDK comes with the IDE.
[01:31:14] von-strauss: they need to start treating devs right
[01:31:15] razer_: von-strauss: Could you tell me or explain in brief?
[01:31:28] von-strauss: Oh I don't know I was just suggesting there were resources out there
[01:31:48] razer_: I see Xcode 3.2.5 and iOS SDK 4.2 dated 18-Nov-2010
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[01:32:11] razer_: And there are three files.
[01:32:26] razer_: I'll just install xcode for now. It is 4 gigs, but easiest way.
[01:32:48] razer_: I'm planning on doing a RubyMotion & RedPotion tutorial / test
[01:36:21] thejamespinto: only thing I hate about my mac is that it makes me install xcode for no reason
[01:36:56] razer_: Well for a lot of things I think you can just install the command line tools, which is all the compiler stuff so you can compile open source stuff or whatever
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[01:37:10] razer_: That is a small package download
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[01:37:48] thejamespinto: I never really "looked for it"
[01:39:04] thejamespinto: and I just learned my bash hasn't seen an update since 2007
[01:39:30] thejamespinto: we're all gonna die, I'm serious :)
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[01:49:26] benzrf: jesus christ
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[01:55:55] thejamespinto: I'm reinstalling my whole mac setup just because of this convo
[01:56:05] thejamespinto: my rvm folder was bloated as fuck
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[02:00:59] tie: Hello my beautiful humans! Quick question, I have Visual Studio Code that im using for Ruby, but I cant seem to find the interpreter for it. Do I just run it in the CMD window or do I need a compiler for it.
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[02:08:45] tie: Any Ideas? I tried running it on my CMD after instilling windows ruby installer but it doesnt recognize my .rb
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[02:17:06] thejamespinto: tie: have you considered getting a simpler IDE?
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[02:17:33] tie: I've also got notepad++ for python scripting
[02:19:01] tie: thejamespinto: but i've tried both and neither seem to work. I cant figure out how to use the interpreter
[02:19:10] thejamespinto: tie: ruby developers really like SublimeText and Atom
[02:19:34] thejamespinto: are we talking about Rails or just Ruby?
[02:19:39] tie: I feel like its not the IDE thats the problem.
[02:20:11] thejamespinto: I am looking for a blog post of a friend to help you with that
[02:20:13] thejamespinto: but let's start easy
[02:20:17] thejamespinto: why do you need Ruby?
[02:20:37] tie: Final project for a course. Im writing an encryption algorithm
[02:21:04] thejamespinto: BTW I found my friend's blog
[02:21:07] thejamespinto: http://iridakos.com/2013/11/08/dont-give-up-on-ruby.html
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[02:21:51] thejamespinto: I wish my cats would stand still to allow me to take pictures for them on blogs :)
[02:22:06] thejamespinto: jeez, I can't write
[02:22:58] tie: That was pretty clevar
[02:23:38] thejamespinto: OK, in the realm of "people who talk about many programming languages instead of just focusing on one"
[02:23:51] thejamespinto: this is my recommendation for learning to use the interperter
[02:23:52] thejamespinto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIfe5Cr-9c
[02:24:44] thejamespinto: the teacher is coached by 2 very smart guys and all three team up to make sure people understand the first steps on how to use Ruby
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[02:25:07] tie: Thanks. Ill watch it now
[02:25:09] thejamespinto: they're coming up with questions people watching may have
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[02:26:08] thejamespinto: you might want to skip a bit until they start talking about Ruby, they're an independent program and spend some extra time talking about other stuff before they dive into Ruby on that one
[02:26:18] thejamespinto: but in general
[02:26:23] thejamespinto: just type `irb`
[02:27:05] thejamespinto: and you'll be shown a CLI for ruby, much like some databases have
[02:27:40] thejamespinto: but usually you want to save a little file named "whatever.rb" then run "ruby whatever.rb"
[02:28:36] thejamespinto: this is a piece of example code in one of the ruby gems I maintain
[02:28:40] thejamespinto: https://github.com/thejamespinto/bdd/blob/implement_translations_8/examples/minitest/abc_test.rb
[02:28:45] thejamespinto: pay no attention to line 3
[02:28:55] tie: Okay. That was the problem. I didnt know I had to type ruby at the beginning.
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[02:29:05] thejamespinto: the first commented line is how you run it
[02:29:51] thejamespinto: it's not a convention to have the first line teach you how to run a file, I just put it there because it's a part of my examples/ folder, so...
[02:31:21] tie: No problem :) I'm fairly experienced with c++ so I know how some of the conventions go
[02:32:22] thejamespinto: anyways, I'm glad I could help
[02:32:39] thejamespinto: since you are focusing on making custom code that needs to work
[02:32:45] thejamespinto: please, follow my advise on this one too
[02:32:52] thejamespinto: take that file I gave you
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[02:33:23] thejamespinto: remove line 3, replace line 5 for "require 'minitest'"
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[02:33:56] thejamespinto: it will be easier if I just gist you
[02:34:38] tie: Sorry for the slow responces. Im waching the video you game me as well
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[02:37:49] thejamespinto: tie https://gist.github.com/thejamespinto/34b2af4ce8f8e948d0171a711f3b2f09
[02:38:00] thejamespinto: create that file in your local machine
[02:38:47] tie: What is minitest?
[02:38:50] thejamespinto: if you know anything about tests at all, you'll be able to figure that out
[02:38:54] thejamespinto: minitest is a gem
[02:38:59] thejamespinto: gem install minitest
[02:39:04] thejamespinto: ^ you're gonna need this too
[02:39:58] thejamespinto: you should get this output http://cl.ly/3f3z0Q1e1C2z
[02:39:59] tie: Unfortunately, I've been pretty pampered by my classes when it came to certain things. I might not know some things you would expect I should know.
[02:40:18] tie: One sec
[02:40:30] thejamespinto: that means you have 2 failing tests and 1 working test
[02:40:54] thejamespinto: writing tests will help you make sure you are creating no side-effects while you are making changes
[02:41:33] thejamespinto: you're employing your computer into repeating your processes and evaluating expectations, just like if it was you
[02:42:32] thejamespinto: I don't expect you to do things exactly the same way I do things (btw, that's not how I personally do things)
[02:42:48] thejamespinto: but I do expect you to master your computer, not the other way around
[02:43:13] von-strauss: i keep forgetting to put end
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[02:44:03] tie: How do i install a gem?
[02:44:39] tie: I've only heard the word gem for the first time about 20 minutes ago but im guessing its similar in effect to an addon or an aditional library?
[02:45:10] thejamespinto: gem install minitest
[02:45:15] thejamespinto: use those 2 commands
[02:45:29] tie: in the actual CMD?
[02:45:40] thejamespinto: not inside irb
[02:45:43] thejamespinto: that is a command
[02:45:51] thejamespinto: like cd, dir, cls
[02:46:21] tie: Oh okay, nice. Thats some pretty nifty functionality
[02:46:32] thejamespinto: I cannot emphasize enough how much ruby developers hate Windows
[02:46:50] tie: I'm guessing they prefer linux?
[02:46:55] thejamespinto: for that, I would have to actually care about listing all bad aspects about Windows
[02:47:02] thejamespinto: and I don't care nearly enough for that
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[02:47:15] thejamespinto: half is on Mac, the other half on Linux
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[02:47:29] tie: I'm not going to make a living off of ruby. I'm just trying to write an encryption algorithm by tuesday
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[02:47:56] thejamespinto: on the Linux half, most are using Ubuntu, XUbuntu, Mint (ubuntu's son) or Debian (Ubuntu's mom)
[02:48:27] thejamespinto: for that you should be fine with Windows
[02:48:34] von-strauss: are you guys new devs
[02:48:46] thejamespinto: I've been around a while
[02:49:16] von-strauss: good to have experienced people here
[02:49:28] tie: Consider my a baby
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[02:49:46] von-strauss: im trying to make a living off ruby
[02:49:48] thejamespinto: we all have to watch so it doesn't turn into a cesspit of opinions and jokes :(
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[02:50:14] von-strauss: i want to drop out of uni so hard
[02:50:17] jhass: just move them to #ruby-offtopic ;)
[02:50:18] thejamespinto: Von Strauss, which country of Europe?
[02:50:26] von-strauss: good old blighty
[02:50:37] thejamespinto: jhass: hi five!
[02:50:38] von-strauss: ah, bet you werent expecting this
[02:51:39] von-strauss: so im a maths student and i hate school
[02:51:43] thejamespinto: Von names are often not in the island :)
[02:51:53] thejamespinto: yeah, drop school then
[02:52:01] von-strauss: i'm not too sure
[02:52:12] von-strauss: i've talked to some smart people who withdrew and are failures
[02:52:14] thejamespinto: replace your major for something you actually like
[02:52:22] von-strauss: oh i love maths more than anything in the world
[02:52:35] von-strauss: but university is just like terrible
[02:52:40] von-strauss: idk i hope im not derailing
[02:52:44] thejamespinto: going to school is not like going to the military
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[02:53:02] thejamespinto: you're in it for the education, not because you have nothing better to do
[02:53:10] thejamespinto: -- with all due respect to soldiers
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[02:53:59] thejamespinto: it doesn't matter if you focused your studies on applied math or software
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[02:54:25] thejamespinto: college is for general education, not for specifics such as computer languages
[02:54:48] von-strauss: school is sort of expensivish though. i wonder if i can master ruby over the summer and learn a bit of rails and try to get an internship during autumn
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[02:55:12] thejamespinto: British Summer? You can't master anything in 5 days
[02:55:36] thejamespinto: I was in Britain exactly one year ago
[02:55:38] von-strauss: southampton's summer isn't so bad
[02:55:48] thejamespinto: like, facebook's telling me about it
[02:56:34] thejamespinto: so I actually remember asking my friends. - so... 16C, when is it gonna get warm? - it is warm.
[02:56:58] von-strauss: where are you?
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[02:57:38] thejamespinto: we get 30C half the year, the other half we et 40C
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[03:00:17] von-strauss: Sorry about your government
[03:00:23] thejamespinto: haha :D Boa Noite
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[03:00:57] thejamespinto: be honest, you wish you could impeach your queen too :)
[03:01:35] von-strauss: I don't like the queen but in general she's very admired
[03:01:37] thejamespinto: talking about the Queen, her birthday is around now, right?
[03:01:40] von-strauss: charles on the other hand....
[03:01:57] thejamespinto: yeah but like, just now
[03:02:02] droptone: Question: Do both .find and .select return arrays, or does .find return the first match?
[03:02:15] thejamespinto: droptone: second
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[03:03:06] thejamespinto: very easy to find out ;)
[03:03:14] droptone: so find returns the first result, and would return nil if not found
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[03:04:06] thejamespinto: many people write needless code with .each and return because they don't know about find/select ;)
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[03:05:24] von-strauss: ruby has too many ways of doing things
[03:05:51] thejamespinto: it was one of the things they would sell the most when I joined
[03:06:07] thejamespinto: that configuration files were ruby instead of xml
[03:06:35] thejamespinto: because in ruby parens are almost always optional
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[03:09:47] tie: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/49d6b0402a0d21a5a66cbe23efc59450
[03:09:51] thejamespinto: von-strauss: how long have you been programing ruby for?
[03:09:55] tie: How do i impliment this while loop?
[03:11:00] thejamespinto: I don't recommend this website
[03:11:07] thejamespinto: but you'll have your answer there
[03:11:07] thejamespinto: http://www.tutorialspoint.com/ruby/ruby_loops.htm
[03:12:04] tie: Perfect, thank you.
[03:12:20] tie: So a loop is considered open until an 'end' is reachd?
[03:12:23] tie: reached*
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[03:15:13] von-strauss: thejamespinto, since yesterday
[03:15:19] von-strauss: i'm 62% on codecademy
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[03:15:31] von-strauss: idk how far that takes you/the quality of instruction
[03:15:35] thejamespinto: von-strauss: that seems like a very old developer :)
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[03:16:04] thejamespinto: do you want it for Rails or something else?
[03:16:29] von-strauss: i want it for a job :P i figured ruby is probably the easiest to pick up and there's a bunch of rails jobs around
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[03:16:50] thejamespinto: rails is best when you already have some history on web frameworks
[03:16:53] thejamespinto: then it's heaven
[03:17:02] von-strauss: i haven't this history :P
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[03:17:29] von-strauss: so are you a ruby dev by trade?
[03:17:33] von-strauss: like as your main job
[03:17:47] thejamespinto: I'm a Rails dev, Ruby came in the package
[03:18:08] thejamespinto: I really like Ruby
[03:18:13] von-strauss: so it's good work? challenging? fun? pays good?
[03:18:17] thejamespinto: but that was not the reason why I signed in
[03:18:29] thejamespinto: work is work, it's never fun
[03:18:42] thejamespinto: when you try to make it fun
[03:18:54] thejamespinto: companies don't like it
[03:19:00] thejamespinto: they want you to feel depressed
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[03:19:46] von-strauss: working at google is probably fun
[03:20:28] thejamespinto: it is still work :)
[03:20:49] thejamespinto: but yeah, those companies try to keep a good environment
[03:20:53] thejamespinto: it's called Social Capital
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[03:22:05] thejamespinto: the very eye of corruption >:)
[03:22:58] tie: thejamespinto: Does Ruby have functions or is everything a class?
[03:23:29] von-strauss: beautiful architecture and great quality of living
[03:23:39] von-strauss: perhaps in all of brasil
[03:23:43] von-strauss: except for santa catarina
[03:24:27] thejamespinto: Brazil needs a reformist, not another thief
[03:24:45] thejamespinto: we have 27 states here
[03:25:12] von-strauss: federal district is the bset for living
[03:25:46] thejamespinto: I'm actually 300km west
[03:26:06] thejamespinto: where the cost of life is 25% ;)
[03:26:41] thejamespinto: Brasilia is good, it's my hometown and it makes me want to sing songs when I'm there
[03:27:24] von-strauss: it's an artifice of a city, and that's what gives it its beauty
[03:27:39] von-strauss: you sound like you have some anglo heritage perhaps? with "james"
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[03:28:36] thejamespinto: my given name is the anglo version of the apostol James
[03:28:45] thejamespinto: Latin version*
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[03:30:16] thejamespinto: that the original name
[03:30:30] thejamespinto: so, this is the city I actually am right now
[03:30:31] thejamespinto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yhE4s_6Wz4
[03:30:57] bougyman: I love work
[03:34:40] von-strauss: bougyman, what kind of work do you do
[03:34:58] bougyman: von-strauss: management, now.
[03:35:10] bougyman: I did archicect/automation before.
[03:35:12] bougyman: lots of ruby
[03:35:20] bougyman: I'm a technical manager, I can never be a PHB
[03:35:20] von-strauss: how did you get started
[03:35:26] bougyman: heck I have 5 ruby mentees.
[03:35:34] bougyman: yeah, I have a degree in philosophy, heh.
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[03:35:56] bougyman: went in to be a minister, lost my faith after 2 years and switched to philosophy.
[03:36:07] von-strauss: another faith loser
[03:36:12] von-strauss: i'm agnostic myself
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[03:36:30] von-strauss: still go to church on occasion
[03:36:33] bougyman: I was generally agnostic for 20 years.
[03:37:00] bougyman: I got punched in the face by a Miracle in Feb and am on The Path again.
[03:37:13] von-strauss: i love god, whatever it is. i think he manifests himself in beautiful mathematical truths
[03:37:29] von-strauss: and not necessarily by intervening in this universe :P
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[03:38:05] von-strauss: the poisson integral is one of those god pieces of math
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[03:41:15] thejamespinto: all I know is that it's not God who's maintaining Ruby
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[03:41:49] thejamespinto: it's these guys https://github.com/ruby/ruby/graphs/contributors
[03:42:06] thejamespinto: and I'm very thankful for what they do
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[03:46:03] von-strauss: thejamespinto, what was your first programming job
[03:47:57] thejamespinto: I created a startup in 2006
[03:48:21] thejamespinto: it was a weak copy of paypal with a social network integrated
[03:49:12] thejamespinto: we believed people and businesses wanted to join that new little world to reach different markets
[03:49:54] von-strauss: we being you and some peers
[03:50:19] thejamespinto: we actually had people who owned credit card companies
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[03:50:46] thejamespinto: it's just that they never invalidated our original ideas, and they should have
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[03:51:29] thejamespinto: we were young, he knew how businesses actually think, what they actually want, we did not
[03:51:51] thejamespinto: he = a small gorup of hes
[03:52:40] thejamespinto: their eyes sparkled when they saw what we were building
[03:53:05] thejamespinto: I still don't know if that's what they wanted
[03:53:11] thejamespinto: so we sold our shares very cheap
[03:53:18] thejamespinto: and went our own ways
[03:53:37] von-strauss: the hardest part about inspecting code in github is i never know where to look first
[03:53:44] thejamespinto: later they reshaped the company into something that was way more business-facing
[03:53:51] von-strauss: the main folder always has the readme then a bunch of nonsense. i dont know what the bin and lib folders contain
[03:53:54] thejamespinto: but they hired a development company that cheated them
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[03:54:27] thejamespinto: I was told "3..5 experienced Java developers" could not do in 2 years what I did in 6 months
[03:54:52] von-strauss: 3..5 meaning (3,4,5)
[03:55:07] thejamespinto: they had people in and out
[03:55:22] thejamespinto: you asked for my first job experience ;)
[03:55:41] thejamespinto: they rewrote the product like 3 times
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[03:55:45] von-strauss: was it in ruby
[03:55:51] thejamespinto: it was never Ruby
[03:56:00] von-strauss: i doubt it...ruby only became popular in 2007
[03:56:22] thejamespinto: last I heard, they sold the company to a guy
[03:56:31] thejamespinto: and this guy actually turned out the business good
[03:57:56] thejamespinto: https://dekpag.com.br/
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[04:11:11] von-strauss: what does super do exactly
[04:11:35] thejamespinto: it calls that same method on the parent class
[04:12:04] thejamespinto: if you don't call super, that means you're fully overriding the mehtod
[04:13:18] thejamespinto: you may want to do 1 of 4 things
[04:13:29] thejamespinto: 1 - override a method entirely
[04:13:40] thejamespinto: 2 - add code after you call super
[04:13:46] thejamespinto: 3 - add code before you call super
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[04:15:02] thejamespinto: 4 - reopen the class instead of inheriting, then you will be both overriding that class, but you get a new super for that class' parent class ;)
[04:15:29] thejamespinto: which is actually one of the things that make ruby so damn awesome
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[04:24:16] thejamespinto: I'm off to bed
[04:24:19] thejamespinto: gnight guys! o/
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[07:26:36] tie: Does Ruby only have methods? Or does it also have functions similar to C++
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[07:28:39] isxek: tie: if by "methods" you mean functions attached to classes, then yes
[07:29:12] tie: Well, i'm taking a tutorial right now and all i've seen so far is 'def-end' methods
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[07:33:35] tie: isxek: Is that what your talking about?
[07:34:57] isxek: I'm not terribly familiar with how "functions" work in C++
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[07:36:46] tie: As i'm getting further into the tutorial, it looks more like a function now, thank you. It also looks similar to a lambda in Scheme.
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[07:37:44] isxek: tie: it depends. Blocks in Ruby act more like Scheme lambdas, I think - code blocks without the 'def-end' markers
[07:37:59] pontiki: ruby has methods, procs, and lambdas
[07:38:07] pontiki: and blocks
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[07:39:22] tie: I'm just getting to blocks now. I've never used procs and i'm not very great at lambdas in Scheme. But i feel like def-end methods are what i was thinking of as a comparison to C++ functions
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[07:39:42] tie: Still trying to figure out what the heck a block it.
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[07:40:23] isxek: You'll be able to understand it as you see more of it, I'm sure.
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[07:41:43] pontiki: i can't give an answer that would satisfy everyone here; but practically it's a group of statements
[07:42:16] tier: Heres hoping. I need to write an encryption algorithm by tuesday and i just started learning ruby today.
[07:42:35] pontiki: no worries then!
[07:42:51] tier: I feel like thats sarcasm...
[07:43:36] isxek: tie_: Don't take it to heart. :)
[07:43:50] tier: I'm going to die.
[07:44:10] tier: I can see my grade plummeting...
[07:44:22] tier: Goodbye cruel world.................
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[08:28:10] rapha: tie_: perhaps stop trying to figure out what things are if you're that short on time and just use them. you don't need all of ruby's sugar to implement an algorithm that probably already exists as pseudocode anyways.
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[08:29:58] tier: rapha: I'm just being dramatic. I'm sure I can finish it in time (with a few energy drinks). I've already created the code in C++, I just need to transfer it over to Ruby.
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[08:30:32] tier: The issue is that I have to give a 15 minute presentation on it. I need to explain the aspects of it and how it differs from other languages.
[08:30:52] isxek: tie_: consider maybe using existing libraries that can help you with that task?
[08:31:02] isxek: i mean, if you're pressed for time
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[08:31:26] tier: What do you mean by using existing libraries?
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[08:31:52] pontiki: well, the important thing seems to be *explaining* it in a compare and contrast
[08:32:00] tier: I dont have any experiance with those
[08:32:22] tier: pontiki: exactly, the code is simply a medium in which to explain it.
[08:33:20] tier: I'm sure I could half ass the whole thing. But I'm learning ruby as much for me as I am for everyone else
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[08:34:28] isxek: trying to get more people to use Ruby? :)
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[08:37:06] tier: I was given a list of a few dozen languages I could present and most were written in the 70s and 80s. This one seemed to have the largest user base and I wanted to learn something I might actually use in the future so you could say that.
[08:37:06] baweaver: you want to know what's depressing: learning a new language and getting something done in a matter of days is not uncommon in the real world.
[08:38:03] tier: Getting something done and getting something done well are two completely different things :/
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[08:38:15] pontiki: more depressing are the number of companies that daily rely on their developers to do so daily
[08:38:36] baweaver: While in the process of getting it done well, you fail to achieve done period, you're in hot water.
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[08:39:05] baweaver: focus on working first, working well second, and pretty last.
[08:39:41] isxek: "try to make it work, make it work correctly, then make it work fast"
[08:39:50] baweaver: pretty much
[08:39:57] baweaver: a lesson I continually run into
[08:40:27] isxek: then refactor :D
[08:40:41] baweaver: I could get this one part done perfectly, documented, tested, formatted like it was gods gift to programming, but there are 5 other parts still to do.
[08:40:43] pontiki: leamur: did you see this article? nothing (like really nothing) new here, but some good points: https://medium.com/@billjordan1/the-quiet-crisis-unfolding-in-software-development-cffbdafbf450#.ibg0g8tjq
[08:41:04] baweaver: not yet, will read in a moment
[08:41:35] baweaver: one of the hardest lessons I had to learn was to get a minimum viable product out first, and build on that
[08:41:59] baweaver: naturally though there's no magical solution to all problems
[08:42:50] pontiki: well, except the real magic: keeping mindful and thinking it through
[08:42:52] shevy: I am the magic!
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[08:43:03] isxek: uh, shazam?
[08:43:12] baweaver: anyone who says differently is selling something
[08:43:20] shevy: pontiki that - or some beer!
[08:43:36] pontiki: balmer peak it is
[08:44:48] baweaver: Anyways, back to reading books on Software Architecture and planning
[08:44:58] pontiki: who are you reading?
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[08:47:19] baweaver: new book by Cervantes and Kazman, Designing Software Architectures
[08:47:30] baweaver: looked interesting, decided to read through it.
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[08:49:27] baweaver: Also flipping through Code Complete 2 and a few others.
[08:50:05] baweaver: Realizing that I can code just about anything with little issue, but when it comes to planning large projects or organizing them I need work.
[08:50:43] baweaver: and winning it through experience feels incredibly naive when resources may be available to help me surmount that lack.
[08:51:16] tier: Thats an issue i'm working on as well.
[08:55:39] shevy: large projects can have a life on their own
[08:55:43] shevy: it's like becoming an alien beast
[08:55:46] pontiki: stupid notwork :((
[08:56:31] pontiki: sorry, baweaver, i only caught Code Complete 2
[08:56:35] pontiki: (which is a good'un)
[08:56:57] baweaver: new book by Cervantes and Kazman, Designing Software Architectures
[08:57:02] baweaver: looked interesting, decided to read through it.
[08:57:25] pontiki: sounds good
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[08:58:49] pontiki: back in the 90s, the group i was in started focusing really hard on software architecture
[08:59:04] pontiki: (inside HP at the time)
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[09:01:27] pontiki: it got hugely academic and not practical, sadly
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[09:01:41] baweaver: such is often the case.
[09:02:03] tier: Well i've been doing this tutorial for going on 9 hours now. I think its about time to hit the sack. Tomorrow, I start on my encryption project. Night all! Thanks for all the pointers. It's always easier to learn from a human then from a tutorial.
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[09:06:10] isxek: ACTION sends tie_ a thumbs-up sign
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[09:07:30] baweaver: bed for me as well.
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[09:20:43] shevy: they all submit to slumber
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[12:22:05] User458764: Hi, I would to know what is the best way to collect the first 3 numbers which is egal to n.round(-3). For instance I want the first 3 numbers 66XXX and the the first 3 67XX... https://gist.github.com/gsorbier/039e5c8fe5dd864f83f634afc2e04060
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[12:38:28] shevy: hmm what class or module in stdlib and core respond to .each_byte? I am looking at code written by someone else right now
[12:39:13] shevy: aaah I have nil rather than a string
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[13:05:17] jhass: shevy: http://devdocs.io/ruby~2.3/ just enter each_byte into the search ;)
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[13:06:56] jhass: >> require "objspace"; ObjectSpace.each_object(Module).select {|mod| mod.public_method_defined?(:each_byte) }
[13:06:57] ruby[bot]: jhass: # => [File, ARGF.class, IO, String, StringIO] (https://eval.in/578844)
[13:07:10] jhass: that's just core though
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[13:12:39] |meta: https://docs.omniref.com/ruby/2.2.3/symbols/IO/each_byte?d=566401588&n=0#
[13:12:45] shevy: yeah, the author who wrote it was expecting a String
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[13:56:38] chridal: Is there a way to stub out something like `sh` in Ruby?
[13:57:08] chridal: I'm trying to write a unit test for a function that runs `sh` to scp something from one server to the scripts directory
[13:57:22] chridal: But I obviously don't want to actually fetch that file from the server in the tests
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[14:01:13] ruby[bot]: multi_io: # => 2 (https://eval.in/578853)
[14:01:29] multi_io: (scratch that)
[14:01:40] multi_io: >> ",".split(",", -1)
[14:01:41] ruby[bot]: multi_io: # => ["", ""] (https://eval.in/578854)
[14:02:06] multi_io: >> "".split(",", -1)
[14:02:07] ruby[bot]: multi_io: # => [] (https://eval.in/578855)
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[14:02:20] multi_io: should've returned [""]
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[14:03:46] zzak: [travis-ci, irc.freenode.net] The build is still failing. by @naruse: See https://travis-ci.org/ruby/ruby/builds/133731094
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[14:06:42] zzak: [travis-ci, irc.freenode.net] The build is still failing. by @naruse: See https://travis-ci.org/ruby/ruby/builds/133731252
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[14:28:26] shevy: good that we do not have to compile the world, with a failing build!
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[14:29:11] pontiki: luckily, the world doesn't need compiling
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[14:58:04] von-strauss: I put a method inside a class
[14:58:08] von-strauss: the class name is F
[14:58:18] von-strauss: what's the difference between calling the method n or F.n
[14:58:39] pontiki: von-strauss: whether the method is an instance method or public method
[14:59:59] von-strauss: so what's the difference
[15:00:12] pontiki: i'm sorry i mispoke
[15:00:21] pontiki: instance method vs. class method
[15:02:32] pontiki: an instance method is available to call on an instance of the class, while a class method is available call directly from the class
[15:02:49] pontiki: F.n would be invoking a class method of F
[15:03:18] pontiki: f = F.new; f.n would be invoking an instance method; f is the instance
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[15:10:57] von-strauss: what does :: mean
[15:11:05] von-strauss: is that for importing stuff
[15:11:08] shevy: you scope to the proper place
[15:11:18] pontiki: it's a name scoping separator
[15:11:19] shevy: for instance, if you have a class String in your project
[15:11:40] shevy: since there is the toplevel class String too, ruby needs a way to find out what you want to use specifically - your own class String, or the general class String on the toplevel
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[15:14:35] arifba: guys i'm having trouble with a simple ruby program
[15:15:46] shevy: you must find your inner zen
[15:17:29] arifba: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ef59cfe4dae1c8b1b825d520c2df01c9
[15:17:34] arifba: can someone take a look?
[15:18:10] arifba: when i run the program it prints nothing
[15:18:42] Papierkorb: arif__: https://gist.github.com/Papierkorb/e95fb53f2ac0f556a5d3b52e99c71dd0
[15:18:43] norc-2: arif__, look at the way you assign your variables
[15:19:19] norc-2: arif__, also incidentally - whenever you want to do something like that, use Struct.
[15:20:29] arifba: i'm really in the beginning stage of learning ruby and have no idea what Struct is
[15:21:36] arifba: i just learned the attr methods and was trying to implement them in a simple program
[15:21:51] arifba: is that where i went wrong? or was it the initialize part?
[15:22:18] arifba: what i'm expected to see: "sample"
[15:22:27] arifba: what i'm seeing instead: nothing
[15:22:53] norc-2: arif__, assignment takes whatever is on the right side, and assigns it to the left.
[15:22:56] Papierkorb: arif__: look again at your assignment lines. Read "foo = 1" as "foo is 1", or in other words "stuff the thing on the right into the variable on the left".
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[15:25:04] arifba: so you mean @venue = venue instead of venue = @venue, for example?
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[15:27:25] arifba: ahh silly me. thanks a ton!
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[16:41:17] von-strauss: why would i want some methods public and some methods private
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[16:41:32] von-strauss: is it so private is for specific instances and public is like can do like the whole program
[16:41:36] norc-2: von-strauss, its just to state intends about which methods are part of your interface, and which are not.
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[16:43:10] norc-2: von-strauss, so whenever you want somebody else to use a method, make it public
[16:43:26] norc-2: von-strauss, if its something internal that ppl have no business of using, make it private.
[16:43:54] norc-2: note though that calling a private method is really easy if somebody really wants to, so its not about preventing it.
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[17:01:40] von-strauss: i do gem install rails and it just halts
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[17:04:17] norc-2: von-strauss, use -V to see what the problem is
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[17:06:24] Papierkorb: von-strauss: define "halts"
[17:06:36] Papierkorb: von-strauss: is it saying something about "parsing documentation" or similar?
[17:07:09] von-strauss: This could take a while...ERROR: Error installing rails: ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
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[17:07:48] norc-2: von-strauss, gist the entire error message
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[17:09:49] von-strauss: /usr/bin/ruby1.9.1 extconf.rb|/usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/custom_require.rb:36:in `require': cannot load such file -- mkmf (LoadError)| from /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/custom_require.rb:36:in `require' | from extconf.rb:1:in `<main>'
[17:09:53] von-strauss: that's the gist of it
[17:10:13] shevy: ruby 1.9.1
[17:10:23] shevy: and no mkmf
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[17:10:27] shevy: you must live in debian land
[17:10:56] von-strauss: deb-based distros are easy to learn
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[17:11:19] shevy: you don't even have a working ruby!
[17:11:43] Papierkorb: aaaand completely outdated to the extend of not being usable. von-strauss, use chruby+ruby-install or RVM (though I recommend the former) to get a recent copy of ruby
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[17:12:40] Papierkorb: von-strauss: http://ryanbigg.com/2014/10/ubuntu-ruby-ruby-install-chruby-and-you/
[17:13:04] HisShadow_: hello. Can anyone help with active record and sqlite3 adapter? I'm trying to run gem's tests, but active record says that database is read-only, even though I tried changing permissions to max and owner of the database is the same as current user. The gem in question is https://github.com/kensodev/kiqit and here's what I get when running tests https://gist.github.com/DuratarskeyK/79527c169582827689e5830eb
[17:13:14] HisShadow_: https://gist.github.com/DuratarskeyK/79527c169582827689e5830eb63d8e96
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[17:14:31] von-strauss: i'm just purging the ruby v i have
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[17:15:01] von-strauss: and using ruby install
[17:15:21] von-strauss: oh no. dpkg-dev is not going to be installed.
[17:15:37] norc-2: von-strauss, when people ask you to gist something, they usually mean to use https://gist.github.com
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[17:17:41] shevy: the evil debian ruby
[17:18:33] Papierkorb: weird for debian to ship software which has had known security issues for years and which isn't maintained anymore. Oh well.
[17:18:54] norc-2: von-strauss, like Papierkorb said. Get chruby/ruby-install - that is the preferred method to install Ruby nowadays.
[17:19:14] jhass: Papierkorb: last time I checked they applied ~30 patches to openssl, nothing surprises me anymore ;)
[17:19:34] Papierkorb: jhass: To fix their getpid() "fix"? :D
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[17:22:07] von-strauss: i have broken packages
[17:22:11] von-strauss: so i need to fix that first
[17:23:26] xpt: I <3 their awk package maintarner. The rumour says that package maintarner doesn't like gnu awk dev so debian is stick to ancient mawk version on vanilla instalation.
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[17:24:51] norc-2: xpt, the habit of sticking to ancient versions of anything has been the debian way since.. ancient times...
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[17:32:46] shevy: it is an ancient tradition
[17:33:12] shevy: imagine how cool it would be to "apt-get install ruby-1.0"
[17:33:54] HisShadow_: us humans can't even fathom that
[17:34:08] alfiemax: shevy, can't you?
[17:34:16] xpt: shevy: well, why do you want to upgrade to 1.0 ? :)
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[17:36:13] shevy: alfiemax not sure
[17:36:32] shevy: xpt I never used 1.0 :(
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[17:39:17] shevy: this old code here is weird
[17:39:29] shevy: if I understood it correctly... it does something similar to: "abc".each_byte {|char| puts char.chr }
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[17:45:29] shevy: does anyone happen to know a good library for hex-to-rgb rgb-to-hex conversions and in general, all sorts of colour-related conversions? hue adjustments etc... idally all in one good project
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[17:55:07] cedra: hey I couldn't find a beginner channel so I'll just ask here, if the user gives an empty input to something, how would you repeatedly re-ask for input, and also how would an 'empty input' be discovered at all
[17:55:38] cedra: I was thinking something like; if user_input.include? ""
[17:55:43] cedra: but that just includes any input
[17:55:58] jhass: cedra: gets returns "\n" if just enter is pressed and nil if Ctrl+D is pressed
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[17:58:18] cedra: Yeah that worked thanks
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[18:25:41] von-strauss: how do you call an attribute
[18:25:47] von-strauss: like a @@ variable part of an instance of a class
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[18:28:11] Papierkorb: von-strauss: "call an attribute"?
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[18:28:30] Papierkorb: von-strauss: @these are instance variables, @@these are class variables (TL;DR: Don't use these) if you mean that
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[19:17:24] von-strauss: how do i refer to an instance variable
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[19:21:01] shevy: from where
[19:21:32] shevy: puts @foo
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[19:22:31] norc-2: von-strauss, I recommend you get a book to learn the basics of Ruby.
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[19:38:09] thejamespinto: von-strauss: hey you're still here
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[19:40:01] thejamespinto: von-strauss: you cannot call an ivar from outside, you need to create a method to read that ivar :)
[19:41:21] thejamespinto: von-strauss: read all of this https://rubymonk.com/learning/books/4-ruby-primer-ascent/chapters/45-more-classes/lessons/110-instance-variables
[19:41:37] thejamespinto: but again, you'll get that at any book
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[19:48:50] norc-2: thejamespinto, sure you can get an instance variable from outside.
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[19:49:00] thejamespinto: norc__: TD; DR
[19:49:21] von-strauss: thejamespinto, im still out here yeah
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[19:51:19] mc_fail: is it possible to force ruby to close file with releaseing a descriptor?
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[19:51:51] mc_fail: i do file.close in my code, but descriptor is still there
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[19:52:39] norc-2: mc_fail, what do you mean by "releasing a descriptor" ?
[19:52:48] norc-2: mc_fail, as soon as you .close() it the fd is closed.
[19:53:14] norc-2: mc_fail, the actual descriptor you do not have to care about. Garbage collection will clean it up for you.
[19:54:34] norc-2: >> require 'ostruct'; p OpenStruct.new.instance_variable_get(:@table) # thejamespinto
[19:54:35] ruby[bot]: norc__: # => {} ...check link for more (https://eval.in/578962)
[19:54:47] mc_fail: norc__ i use pipes with ruby, and i need to close actual descriptor at specific time
[19:55:04] mc_fail: otherwise my application stucks
[19:55:06] thejamespinto: norc__: are you seriously recommending that as a good practice?
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[19:55:57] mc_fail: yeah, i have seen this on stackoverflow, but it doesn't look nice
[19:56:30] norc-2: thejamespinto, I am seriously recommending to know about such things.
[19:56:38] norc-2: Whether you want to use them is up to you really.
[19:56:44] thejamespinto: norc__: he's one day old
[19:57:02] thejamespinto: 2 days ago, he didn't know any Ruby
[19:57:31] norc-2: mc_fail, how does your fd respond to .closed?
[19:58:03] norc-2: mc_fail, then your fd is closed properly.
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[19:58:30] norc-2: Wait. nil?
[19:58:44] norc-2: That should not be possible. The function cannot return nil.
[19:58:51] norc-2: What object are you working on?
[19:59:30] mc_fail: i'm trying to do it like that http://pastebin.com/v99WwMmZ
[19:59:31] ruby[bot]: mc_fail: we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/b59bac35fab7829b25a40850909f62d4
[19:59:31] ruby[bot]: mc_fail: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
[20:00:39] mc_fail: should i use IO instead of File ?
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[20:01:58] norc-2: mc_fail, which version of Ruby are you using?
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[20:03:05] norc-2: mc_fail, that might explain why IO#closed? is returning something that from 2.0 onward cannot possibly return nil.
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[20:04:51] mc_fail: hmm, norc__, but will moving to newer verison solve my problem with descriptors?
[20:04:55] norc-2: mc_fail, please note that 1.9.3 is outdated without support anymore.
[20:06:22] norc-2: mc_fail, 1.9.3 is outdated and unsupported. Whether your issues to fifos are related I cannot say. By upgrading you do yourself a big favour, and you allow us to assist you.
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[20:08:31] mc_fail: ok, i'll try to run it on newer version
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[20:13:05] von-strauss: almost done w codecademy
[20:13:26] von-strauss: anyone heard of the rails for zombies course
[20:14:44] mc_fail: i have upgraded to ruby 2.3.1p112
[20:14:52] mc_fail: i see the same thing
[20:15:01] mc_fail: writer.close=> true
[20:15:22] mc_fail: but lsof|grep "/tmp/sshfifotest" still shows that file is held by irb process
[20:15:55] mc_fail: (i run the same code i pasted before)
[20:16:33] mc_fail: and descriptor is actually being released only if i exit or kill irb process
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[20:25:32] norc-2: mc_fail, I cannot reproduce this.
[20:25:39] norc-2: Which operating system are you on?
[20:27:24] mc_fail: norc__ linux
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[20:27:41] mc_fail: kernel 3.2.x
[20:27:44] norc-2: mc_fail, can you a bit more specific? Which flavour?
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[20:28:45] mc_fail: 3.2.45-0.6.acc.755.47.315.amzn1acc.x86_64
[20:28:55] mc_fail: if you're about kernel
[20:29:10] mc_fail: it's an amazon inctance
[20:31:30] mc_fail: norc__ just copypaste it to irb, and do lsof without closing irb
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[20:31:47] mc_fail: it is reproducaple on osx as well
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[20:33:53] norc-2: mc_fail, https://gist.github.com/norc/80b8bd8123ea3b37c1848d8d6695ef9d
[20:34:13] norc-2: mc_fail, that returns true for OSX and Ubuntu 14.04 on Ruby 2.3.1.
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[20:35:52] norc-2: So no, I have not been able to reproduce this on either system.
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[20:36:43] norc-2: mc_fail, un an unrelated note, you might want to swap out irb for pry (you will thank me in the long run)
[20:36:51] ruby[bot]: Pry, the better IRB, provides easy object inspection `ls`, `history`, viewing docs `?`, viewing source `$`, syntax highlighting and other features (see `help` for more). Put `binding.pry` in your source code for easy debugging. Install Pry (https://pryrepl.org/): gem install pry pry-doc
[20:37:27] |meta: better is subjective, but pry is ok
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[20:39:11] mc_fail: hmm, let me try, it seems like i have found an issue there
[20:41:34] multi_io: >> ",".split(",", -1)
[20:41:35] ruby[bot]: multi_io: # => ["", ""] (https://eval.in/578985)
[20:41:50] multi_io: >> "".split(",", -1)
[20:41:51] ruby[bot]: multi_io: # => [] (https://eval.in/578986)
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[20:42:04] multi_io: Bug. Should've returned [""].
[20:42:29] von-strauss: Object oriented programming is too much like databases
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[20:42:43] von-strauss: creating new instances of a class is just like populating a database!
[20:43:06] von-strauss: why hasn't anyone made db software that more clearly mimics the syntax of OOP languages, so as to highlight their similarity
[20:43:24] von-strauss: it definitely is similar, and not taking advantage of these similarities is a mistake.
[20:44:03] |meta: yeah, I'm sure you know best
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[20:44:16] |meta: relation algebra is terrible, you tell 'em
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[20:45:55] von-strauss: |meta, my confidence is a subterfuge to draw people in to the conversation, to lure them into challenging me so i can learn
[20:46:12] von-strauss: hopefully i've made it painfully obvious i haven't the faintest idea what i'm talking about
[20:46:31] |meta: I hope you dont think I'm actually interested in talking to you
[20:46:53] von-strauss: Don't talk to me then
[20:46:58] von-strauss: I thought Ruby was supposed to be nice
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[20:47:20] thejamespinto: von-strauss: remember what I told you last night? :/
[20:47:24] von-strauss: thejamespinto, what?
[20:47:48] thejamespinto: cess-pit of opinions
[20:48:10] von-strauss: it's hardly a cesspit.
[20:48:19] von-strauss: but I take your point.
[20:48:22] |meta: minaswan is a toxic ideology
[20:48:25] thejamespinto: von-strauss: I understand the associations you are making in your head
[20:48:35] |meta: people who are never told how terrible they are only ever get worse
[20:48:43] |meta: I dont subscribe to that
[20:49:02] thejamespinto: that is applicable to students inside a classroom, outside the big real world out here
[20:49:05] norc-2: von-strauss, people have. There are object oriented databases around. In general they just aren't useful enough to be well known.
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[20:50:03] thejamespinto: von-strauss: you have to understand comparisons and associations made so people can "learn" things are very very very rarely truth
[20:50:30] thejamespinto: they are only truth within the context that you are learning
[20:51:02] |meta: this is like two blind people talking about a painting
[20:51:13] thejamespinto: yes, database columns remind us of attributes of a class;
[20:51:36] thejamespinto: yes, database rows remind us of instances of a class where those columns/attributes are going to hold a value
[20:52:02] thejamespinto: but if you say that out loud in an environment where people are at different stages of understanding
[20:52:12] thejamespinto: you're gonna get ridiculed
[20:52:46] thejamespinto: because here we have to talk about advanced ruby
[20:52:47] norc-2: von-strauss, honestly though. Before you start discussions about your bright database concepts - how about you wrap your head around basic programming first.
[20:53:16] |meta: no norc__ you mis-understand him, he's obviously a domain expert
[20:53:23] domgetter: "here we have to talk about advanced ruby" I don't agree. People talk about beginning Ruby concepts here all the time
[20:53:46] |meta: you also have to KNOW advanced ruby concepts to talk about them, typically
[20:53:49] von-strauss: i don't claim authorship of these ideas, and i don't even claim they're useful
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[20:54:09] thejamespinto: it's not that they hate you, they actually love you
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[20:54:17] von-strauss: |meta's attitude is counterproductive. i'm ignoring him
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[20:54:47] |meta: "I disagree with this person, I think I'll turn my brain off now"
[20:54:49] |meta: good work
[20:54:51] thejamespinto: but they're gonna make fun of you anyways, just like adults make fun of children who can't walk or who say some word in a funny way
[20:55:01] norc-2: ?offtopic
[20:55:01] ruby[bot]: this seems to be off-topic. Please move your discussion to #ruby-offtopic, to keep this channel free for Ruby related problems. Thanks!
[20:55:10] von-strauss: i too like to pick on the vulnerable
[20:55:26] von-strauss: ACTION goes back to project euler
[20:56:06] thejamespinto: von-strauss: that's why you need to get a book, and join a local community of learners
[20:56:44] von-strauss: thejamespinto, i'm hesitant to spend money on a book just yet when there's so much free resources
[20:57:02] von-strauss: i'm almost done with the codecademy ruby course and now i intend to begin the rails zombies
[20:57:25] von-strauss: i can't attest to their quality, so i will buy a book after
[20:57:34] von-strauss: i know programming ruby is well thought of
[20:57:36] norc-2: von-strauss, yes. Why spend some dollars or euros on a quality book when you can get half the quality for free.
[20:57:48] von-strauss: <von-strauss> i can't attest to their quality, so i will buy a book after
[20:58:04] von-strauss: if you offer any suggestions, i am listening
[20:58:16] norc-2: The free sources will not make better at picking ruby books.
[20:58:19] domgetter: all the quality, none of the cost: http://docs.ruby-doc.com/docs/ProgrammingRuby/
[20:58:20] thejamespinto: von-strauss: you're right, you should get excited first, but look for books soon, you know.....
[20:58:45] norc-2: von-strauss, the staple book recommendation in this channel is Eloquent Ruby
[20:58:54] norc-2: von-strauss, many others are frequently mentioned, but this one is at the top of the list.
[20:59:13] von-strauss: and all i was trying to say was it's probably a good idea to get one's feet wet before spending money on ruby
[20:59:19] von-strauss: which is what i'm now doing
[20:59:50] von-strauss: now that's not such an unreasonable claim
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[21:00:13] shevy: problem with books is that you will learn very quickly
[21:00:23] shevy: then the other books are not as useful to you anymore since you know n% already
[21:00:38] pnbeast: von-strauss, the pickaxe book is free, IIRC. The web knows better than me, if you search.
[21:00:52] shevy: I bought the first pickaxe in ... 2004 or so I think. The second one in... 2009, give or take. The second time though, it was not "worth" as much to me since I knew a lot of the content already
[21:00:54] norc-2: And the pickaxe is really grossly outdated without much focus on modern concepts... :o)
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[21:07:59] |meta: is eloquent ruby better than awgr?
[21:08:23] |meta: I started out with pickaxe, then awgr, then poodr
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[21:09:31] thejamespinto: I too started with a video series, the one by Lynda, I got excited, then I bought Ruby Programming Language and Head First Ruby On Rails, later I bought AWDWROR
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[21:09:57] domgetter: I'm more of a video learner. Lynda.com, conference videos, lectures. But I did go through most of the Pickaxe book. It's pretty comprehensive. It doesn't teach style so much, just what you can do in Ruby. And Metaprogramming Ruby convers the rest
[21:09:58] thejamespinto: Head First was really nice, but it's long out-dated
[21:10:29] von-strauss: thejamespinto, shame, you shouldn't get excited by low-quality gratis rubbish
[21:10:59] von-strauss: how dare you whet your appetite and intellectual curiosity by watching free instructional videos on the internet
[21:11:06] thejamespinto: von-strauss: there weren't many sources at the time
[21:11:37] thejamespinto: also, you're tilting on the wrong treadmill, I was the guy who was nice to you, remember?
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[21:11:52] von-strauss: i'm not legitimately angry...this is sarcasm
[21:12:07] von-strauss: i'm echoing the objection that norc__ had when i said i was using free internet materials
[21:12:09] thejamespinto: avoid it, please
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[21:13:21] norc-2: von-strauss, I was merely pointing out that there are quality books out there that are not matched by free resources around.
[21:13:39] norc-2: Whether whatever resource you are using works for you is none of my concern.
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[21:15:01] gilfoyle: ruby newbie question: what does this config resemble? http://paste.ubuntu.com/16820564/
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[21:15:49] norc-2: gilfoyle, what do you mean?
[21:16:05] gilfoyle: what is config to that class?
[21:16:11] norc-2: gilfoyle, a method call
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[21:16:22] jhass: gilfoyle: it calls the config method with a symbol as first argument and either keyword arguments or hash as further arguments
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[21:16:51] norc-2: gilfoyle, in simple terms its a class method of SomeClass or one of its ancestors.
[21:17:26] gilfoyle: thanks, let me try wrap my head around this. :)
[21:17:57] gilfoyle: so by method call, do you mean, it's a one-time call of the config method? (one time per line, that is)
[21:18:07] norc-2: gilfoyle, reading it as: config(:foo, validate: :string, baz: true) might help
[21:18:16] norc-2: gilfoyle, yes exactly!
[21:18:25] gilfoyle: oh, thanks :)
[21:18:28] gilfoyle: that clarifies it
[21:19:17] domgetter: gilfoyle: here's another example: https://gist.github.com/domgetter/6dff1e8d961be6d7b02adde0b43cd4d5
[21:19:27] domgetter: There, the config method is defined right before it's used.
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[21:26:02] thejamespinto: Hey guys, I'm finishing a new release of a test gem. Can I get volunteers to give me feedback on the readme on github? https://github.com/thejamespinto/bdd/tree/readme#why please read section #alternatives too
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[21:34:45] norc-2: thethat big wall of "Why" almost provoked a natural "tl;dr" defense mechanism..
[21:36:05] norc-2: I meant thejamespinto of course.
[21:36:45] norc-2: thejamespinto, mind my asking - how does this improve on describe/context/it on pure rspec?
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[21:37:39] thejamespinto: norc__: yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to solve, where to put a why sector
[21:38:28] thejamespinto: norc__: it will give you a Given/When/Then level of output https://travis-ci.org/thejamespinto/bdd/jobs/133791774
[21:38:46] norc-2: thejamespinto, ah fair enough.
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[21:39:57] thejamespinto: norc__: it was based of my love/hate relationship with Cucumber
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[21:43:40] norc-2: thejamespinto, so here is the perspective of someone who hasn't used cucumber before:
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[21:44:00] norc-2: thejamespinto, is there any real use in pretty printing tests?
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[21:47:17] norc-2: Or is the goal about the expressiveness of tests?
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[21:49:24] art-solopov: norc__: One of the devs I talked to said that the goal is enabling your QA engineer to write tests in (almost) English.
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[21:56:47] tie: I'm back. And better then ever.
[21:59:06] von-strauss: im prototyping my first project, an irc client
[21:59:16] von-strauss: im having trouble mixing the input and output buffer
[21:59:30] von-strauss: i need to find a way to get input from the user without halting the receive buffer
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[22:01:17] tie: I havent gotten that far in my learning, but von-strauss, were you the one learning ruby from codecademy?
[22:01:39] von-strauss: I just finished an hour ago
[22:01:52] tie: That was a great suggestion, thank you. I did that for nine hours yesterday and it REALLY helped
[22:01:59] von-strauss: it's a short course and people here don't like it
[22:02:00] tie: Are you doing the free version or the payed one?
[22:02:07] von-strauss: the ruby course is free
[22:02:26] tie: Yeah, for a dead to rights beginner i think its pretty good. I learned a lot from it.
[22:02:41] tie: The ruby course has higher level courses if you pay for it.
[22:02:49] von-strauss: i don't pay for stuff
[22:02:55] von-strauss: a fool and his money are soon parted
[22:02:56] Papierkorb: von-strauss: Simple (but "ugly"?) solution: Use threads. Complex solution: Use EventMachine (additional library). I'd go for the threading solution for now in your position to move forward
[22:03:17] von-strauss: Papierkorb, Okay thank you. I'll learn threadings
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[22:28:08] Radar: von-strauss: You don't pay for stuff? Don't pay for rent? Food? Water? Books?
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[22:32:18] tie: Whats the reasoning for Ruby coding standard to have a 2 space indentation instead of a standard 4 space tab?
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[22:33:18] heftig: tie: that's not a standard
[22:33:31] Radar: tie: because it's quicker to type two spaces than it is to type four
[22:34:06] Radar: tie: It's also so that the code doesn't reach the right margin as quickly. Two space indentation is clear enough that the code is indented. No need to go overboard.
[22:34:11] heftig: and AFAIR the standard tab width is 8
[22:34:15] tie: In the three places i've seen they say a two space indentation is a coding standard for Ruby
[22:34:31] Radar: tie: yes, that is true.
[22:34:46] neha-: ya 2 space good space
[22:34:50] neha-: 2 space good 4 space bad
[22:34:50] tie: Just curious :)
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[22:38:10] pnbeast: tie, I always use 4.5 spaces. It's very readable and doesn't upset the "4 spaces is bad" crowd, but it's a lot easier to differentiate than 2 spaces.
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[22:40:41] tie: Okay, I get it. 4 spaces is bad because it is. Well, I wouldnt want to upset the croud, thanks.
[22:40:50] neha-: whats 4.5 lol
[22:41:00] Radar: Yes please don't upset the crowd. They get so much caremad.
[22:41:15] Radar: The froth from their mouths is really hard to get off almost every surface.
[22:41:35] pnbeast: tie, I was just joking. It's far more important to have a standard and stick to it than pick the "correct" one. None are correct. If you're working with a group, of course, then you might have to adopt their standard.
[22:42:38] neha-: i'm going to start using that lol
[22:42:47] tie: I agree, I was just curious if there was an actual reason in the interpreter for that standard.
[22:42:59] neha-: 2 spaces is in the interpreter? :o
[22:43:18] Radar: tie: It's what the community has agreed upon.
[22:45:23] baweaver: Oh, sorry, I was just trying to contribute to what color we're painting the bike shed today
[22:45:56] Radar: baweaver: Chatreuse and Rebecca Purple stripes.
[22:46:04] Radar: Diagonally, of course.
[22:46:41] baweaver: but I thought the neighbors agreed on yellow
[22:47:24] Radar: True. The Council also suggested yellow.
[22:47:31] Radar: But we know better
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[22:47:53] Radar: (It sounds more ominous if you put "of <number> after "The Council", i.e. "The Council of Seven"
[22:48:08] baweaver: It's _our_ bikeshed after all
[22:48:26] baweaver: The Gang of Four
[22:48:28] Radar: The painter's paintbrush is staying firmly in the draw.
[22:48:37] Radar: guess who hasn't woken up yet this morning
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[22:49:18] baweaver: sevenseacat?
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[22:57:00] von-strauss: Radar, when i can avoid it
[22:57:17] von-strauss: Tangible things that I need to survive I readily pay for. Information wants to be free on the other hand
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[22:58:02] von-strauss: Radar, I contribute to wikibooks because I care about people learning mathematics
[22:58:14] von-strauss: I'm sure there are people that do the same for Ruby
[22:59:06] pnbeast: von-strauss, information does want to be free, but proper education can be quite, quite valuable, and worth paying for. You need to evaluate what you want to learn and the potential payoff correctly, of course.
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[23:20:49] tie: Is it standard practice to put the definitions at the beginning of a file or at the end?
[23:21:29] Nawn: I believe the beginning.
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[23:24:39] tie: Thats what I figured. Thanks
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[23:34:04] jhass: "the definitions"?
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[23:34:27] shevy: all of them!
[23:35:42] tie: def-end
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[23:37:12] jhass: ah well yeah, I tend to put them in front, though I relative quickly go over into a class based approach
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[23:38:45] Nawn: yeah, I tend to define all my classes in their own *.rb and then require them within what i'd need. and I typically put all those "require_relative"s at the top of my file
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[23:54:45] von-strauss: pnbeast, i plan to make a living off of rails
[23:54:51] von-strauss: so i will buy at least a bookj
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