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#ruby - 28 September 2017

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[00:18:21] havenwood: rosa: howdy
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[00:26:48] havenwood: zenspider: Thribers!
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[00:28:15] havenwood: Half Fiber, Alligator, half Thread.
[00:29:09] Algebr`: How can I gem install something where all of the things installed will be in a direcotry that I choose
[00:29:22] Algebr`: instead of touching anything in /usr, basically looking to avoid sudo
[00:30:25] havenwood: Algebr`: A simple way is to use the --user-install or --install-dir flag
[00:30:39] havenwood: Algebr`: See: gem help install
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[00:31:03] havenwood: --[no-]user-install Install in user's home directory instead of GEM_HOME.
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[00:31:08] Algebr`: ah, nice, I was playing with --bin-dir
[00:31:26] elomatreb: You probably want user-install, and maybe create a ~/.gemrc to avoid having to specify that every time
[00:31:49] havenwood: Or use chruby
[00:32:25] havenwood: It works with package manager Rubies or whatever Rubies you want.
[00:32:29] havenwood: Thribers: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/13618
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[00:36:54] havenwood: Something like "Routine" might be a nicer name than "Thriber," but yeah, naming is hard.
[00:37:28] Algebr`: hmm, now trying to run the binary from that install-dir bin directory and get a loaderror of GEM_PATH
[00:37:56] Algebr`: and did set environment var of GEM_PATH to installed-dir/gems
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[00:41:42] Algebr`: and GEM_HOME now =/
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[01:23:21] Algebr`: ah nevermind, solved problem another way
[01:25:31] MrBusiness3: anyone happen to have a good suggestion for a book of short to medium length (ideally shorter than the O' Reilly "Programming in (Perl|Python) books; however, I would like something reasonably comprehensive where concerns exposition, example, and potential (hidden) pitfalls? All I've read thus far has been a redacted copy of "Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby" and while it makes for an amusing read, it's also very difficult to
[01:25:32] MrBusiness3: focus my attention on it since and given page could end up being totally irrelevant to anything outside of the current chatper's comic theme
[01:27:13] MrBusiness3: Certainly, I can say that I respect Why's effort, but I think it's not the best starting point, at least for me, into such a powerful language; I also am saddled with considerable professional Perl experience which, like C++ to Verilog, contains many similar syntactic elements that have absolutely no semantic similarity whatsoever
[01:27:35] MrBusiness3: the way Ruby's variable sigils for example.
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[01:28:23] MrBusiness3: I mean, I'm sure O'Reilly has "Programming in Ruby" in its catalog somewhere, but I think I need to start somewhere between that and WHy's Guide
[01:28:44] zenspider: havenwood: I... what?
[01:28:56] MrBusiness3: heh, saying it aloud, "Why's Guide" kind of sounds similar to "wise guy"
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[01:29:21] zenspider: MrBusiness3: you settle on a book? I recommend the pickaxe, but it might be larger at this point than you desire
[01:29:46] MrBusiness3: So, the book has a picture of a pickaxe on it?
[01:30:00] MrBusiness3: and yeah, my size desires may not be met
[01:30:13] elomatreb: There's a list of book suggestions in the topic
[01:30:37] MrBusiness3: elomatreb, thank you for pointing that out. I had indeed missed that!
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[01:31:02] MrBusiness3: aw man, holger acme back for a second and then vanished
[01:31:03] elomatreb: "Programming Ruby" is the pickaxe book, because there is a pickaxe on it. But it's a little dated by now
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[01:31:13] MrBusiness3: probably not even the same as the guy I'm thinking off
[01:31:56] MrBusiness3: sounds like myself I should go throug the online docs to see if there's some kind of grounds-up tutorial ala Python
[01:32:07] MrBusiness3: holgerdanske, hello
[01:32:39] MrBusiness3: ACTION admires his own "-3" suffix
[01:33:24] elomatreb: Not really in an official capacity, sadly. There is an old version of the pickaxe book freely available here, you might take a look there http://ruby-doc.com/docs/ProgrammingRuby/
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[01:47:22] PorcoRex: Evening Ruby.
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[10:41:16] Terens: How to explain difference between ruby hash and json to someone ?
[10:41:44] Terens: They look the same so we are arguing about the data type
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[10:44:28] teatime: well they're kinda similar
[10:44:37] teatime: hash maps are a larger concept than ruby or javascript
[10:44:42] teatime: what in particular are you arguing about
[10:53:57] Terens: Initially he told me that I have to pass JSON data to his library. I did but he meant hash. Tried to tell him that he needs hash not json but he kept pasting me ruby hash and telling me that there is no difference... Now I sent him data as hash and we got error. Turned out he wanted json string to parse it. Then he started sarcasm that I am not doing what we agreed and he hopes I dont send him xml next time.
[10:55:16] teatime: well yes if you say "JSON data" you mean a string in JSON format
[10:55:48] veex: Terens: what were the differences in what you provided vs he expected?
[10:55:49] Terens: yes but he changed his library. Intially accepted hash (told me to send json string)
[10:56:06] Terens: Then it stopped working because he wanted json string
[10:57:22] veex: Forgive me, is this "he" a person or your application?
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[11:17:51] Caius: I'd send a ruby hash and break out a 2x4 to beat him with until he understands what he will accept.
[11:18:05] Caius: (Or a clue-by-four, as a friend of mine has nicknamed his)
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[11:36:38] veex: ineb: i imagine that person is you??
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[11:37:28] ineb: vee_: send me some json data and see if i complain about it
[11:38:11] ineb: i only accept hashes ffs
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[11:38:23] ineb: and dont you dare to send me xml
[11:38:39] adaedra: I only read from far away, but the debate is about serialized vs unserialized data?
[11:38:53] veex: lol, would love to see your method or problem at hand in a gist.
[11:39:07] ineb: vee_: no, iam not that confused person ;)
[11:39:11] adaedra: also, iirc, there are no JSON hashes, only objects.
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[13:10:49] scatterp: https://pastebin.com/ddvAx1Kf can someone tell me how to make this a bash script where i can echo "hi" at the end i think its something to do with source command ?
[13:10:50] ruby[bot]: scatterp: we in #ruby do not like pastebin.com, I reposted your paste to gist for you: https://gist.github.com/0f61d0147845587e0c973f3fcd5ca5df
[13:10:51] ruby[bot]: scatterp: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
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[13:13:02] teatime: scatterp: the last three lines will never run because exec will never return
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[13:13:55] scatterp: teatime yes thats the problem whats the soloution :)
[13:14:21] teatime: just drop the first exec line
[13:14:30] teatime: this is like a (quick and dirty) installation script though
[13:14:36] teatime: you don't want to run it multiple times
[13:14:42] scatterp: ah i was thinking it was not needed ok that helps a bit
[13:14:44] teatime: each time it runs it's going to add crap to your ~/.bashrc
[13:15:00] scatterp: then how can i add echo "hi" to the end ?
[13:15:10] teatime: you have to put it before the exec
[13:15:21] teatime: exec means "replace the currently running program with a different one"
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[13:15:46] teatime: it's re-invoking your shell so that you get the changes made in your shell rc
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[13:15:55] scatterp: can i replace the currently running program with a diffrent one and call a bash script ?
[13:16:00] scatterp: like at the same time
[13:16:04] teatime: you can also maybe replace exec $SHELL with source ~/.bashrc but that's even dirtier
[13:16:25] teatime: maybe if you were clearer about what you ultimately want
[13:16:32] teatime: you're doing the X Y Problem thing
[13:16:45] scatterp: my brother says that to me every time i call him :)
[13:17:06] scatterp: well i have a long install.sh script the start of the process is the pasted code
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[13:17:35] scatterp: and everything after shell exec seems to depend on the shell being re-invoked
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[13:18:30] scatterp: if i could reinvoke the shell and execute a script that would solve it
[13:18:49] teatime: there's no good way to do that
[13:19:04] teatime: but 'source ~/.bashrc' instead of exec will probably work for you
[13:19:35] scatterp: so i can do source ~/.bashrc instead of shell exec at the end
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[13:19:43] scatterp: and then at the end of the script i can shell exec ?
[13:19:51] teatime: that only affects the rest of that script
[13:20:13] teatime: nm, the exec has the same problem
[13:20:34] scatterp: one sec i will paste an example
[13:20:36] teatime: scatterp: yeah sure sounds good to me
[13:21:42] scatterp: https://pastebin.com/aS6YSE7h
[13:21:42] ruby[bot]: scatterp: as I told you already, please use https://gist.github.com
[13:21:44] scatterp: like this ?
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[13:23:04] scatterp: great thanks :)
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[14:15:45] MrBusiness: Hello. I asked at some point in the past few days for a book suggestion to help me learn Ruby. The consensus seemed to be that, "The Pickaxe Book" was the best choice, but I failed to clarify: how do I identify "The Pickaxe Book?"
[14:16:06] havenwood: MrBusiness: It has a pickaxe on the cover.
[14:16:32] teatime: MrBusiness: well, I googled "the pickaxe book".
[14:16:44] havenwood: MrBusiness: It's full name is "Programming Ruby."
[14:16:44] teatime: and that seemed to work. it's Programming Ruby.
[14:16:49] teatime: looks like there are a lot of editions of it
[14:16:50] havenwood: https://gist.github.com/baweaver/57a7c8296ca2c03effbd8fac1e7f6b40
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[14:16:52] teatime: probably want the newest
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[14:17:15] MrBusiness: Ah, there it is.
[14:17:32] havenwood: MrBusiness: The Well-Grounded Rubyist, Second Edition is a good option.
[14:17:38] MrBusiness: I probably scrolled right past it and failed to register that the pickaxe was a pickaxe due to the angle at which it is shown.
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[14:18:16] havenwood: https://ruby-community.com/pages/links
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[14:23:41] MrBusiness: alright, two books and a web page added to my bookmarks. Reckon that ought to do the trick. Still wish I could just read Why's guide. Probably could if I had some sticky tabs in two colors, one to denote pages with useful information and others to denote where the useful information stops and Why or his character fly off into a surreal tangent.
[14:24:33] MrBusiness: granted, if memory serves, divorcing the two in that fashion may simply not be possible for some sections.
[14:25:21] elomatreb: Also consider the age of that, _why has vanished from the face of the earth years ago
[14:25:33] MrBusiness: Still, it is an amusing read, and in the absence of knowledge as to whether or not I will have the money to afford such a thing I reckon.
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[14:25:43] MrBusiness: This is true, though I recall researching that
[14:26:56] MrBusiness: and the discovery of another curious person was that Why simply wanted to put the book behind him. However, when I last went searching for a fresh copy of that old .pdf, the copy I found had supposedly been redacted by a third party to make it relevant to a newer version of Ruby than the one that Why wrote about.
[14:27:30] elomatreb: There were a lot of deprecations from 1.8 to 1.9, maybe that was that
[14:28:16] MrBusiness: I cannot imagine myself not having subsequently downloaded it, and indeed, that could be the change. I have no clue. As said, my attempts to learn Ruby have only been half-hearted at best.
[14:29:03] matthewd: s/redacted/amended/, FYI -- I wondered what you meant that the first time you said it :)
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[14:29:23] MrBusiness: I have no working need to learn the language per se, but I feel as though learning it and producing a work of some value, no matter how small, would be a good feather in my cap.
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[14:29:40] MrBusiness: Granted, I've never done a study on Ruby penetration rates by region.
[14:30:21] MrBusiness: I meant redacted but i suppose edited might have been a better choice?
[14:30:24] LyndsySimon: I'm working on a project where we have substantial manual QA testing, in addition to our automated tests that use Capybara. Does anyone have experience using Capybara to automate the setup to particular states for the purposes of manual testing?
[14:30:46] MrBusiness: I always thought that redaction was a form of censorship until I looked it up and "edited" was the given definition.
[14:31:05] LyndsySimon: Basically, I'd like to run the user's browser for as long as it takes to do environment setup tasks - logging in, creating some stuff, then dropping them on a page and giving them back control.
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[14:36:41] MrBusiness: hm, I suppose that some kind of automation task would be a good project/portfolio piece for me to attempt to learn from. Ruby certainly does seem to have a lot of browser automation frameworks. I was aware of Cucumber, but capybara looks interesting and has an interesting syntax. I apologize LyndsySimon, i doubt that i can be of much help but these "states" of which you speak, what defines them. Are they browser states, OS
[14:36:41] MrBusiness: states, or simply different end results of specific automation tasks that have measurable and definite differences?
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[14:39:20] MrBusiness: I guess the same inquiry, though not precisely identical, could be made concerning "state." What are these states?
[14:39:28] MrBusiness: "environments"
[14:40:02] MrBusiness: is it the OS environement ala environment variables, or the environment inside of your application?
[14:40:59] MrBusiness: I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that your application is a web application.
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[14:44:58] LyndsySimon: MrBusiness: Yes, it's a web app. The "state" would be a combination of client state (i.e., session, including cookies and LocalStorage) and server state (including database contents).
[14:46:06] LyndsySimon: Basically, I want to be able to run a test that's already using Capybara, but instead of executing the test I want to stop there and let a user take over.
[14:46:14] matthewd: LyndsySimon: Presumably you could just `gets` when you want to wait for the user
[14:46:33] LyndsySimon: Hmm. Yeah, I could.
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[14:47:42] LyndsySimon: I'd like to wrap this in a GUI of some type - either a desktop app, a web interface or a browser extension. That would require that I split the test setup and teardown from the test suite and put it in a structure that's readable and usable for this as well. That should be possible.
[14:47:47] LyndsySimon: It's getting more clear in my mind :)
[14:47:52] LyndsySimon: Just talking about it helps.
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[14:52:15] matthewd: LyndsySimon: Alternatively, consider why the tests are manual, and whether that can be addressed in some other way, maybe?
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[14:53:06] LyndsySimon: matthewd: Ideally, yeah. We're not going to be able to get away from manual testing completely, no matter what. The software is for the healthcare industry, so it's very important that we be as confident as possible that things in the UI in particular not break.
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[14:53:36] LyndsySimon: In my experience, automated testing is awesome for making sure things don't break in the same way they have in the past. It's not as great for making sure they don't break in new and exciting ways.
[14:55:34] teatime: LyndsySimon: the former is called regression testing
[14:58:07] LyndsySimon: teatime: I'm aware :)
[14:58:14] matthewd: Maybe consider a visual change detection tool like Percy CI, or run scripted capybara tests, but slow enough that a human can supervise and observe otherwise-undetected malfeasance
[14:58:50] LyndsySimon: teatime: Actually, I was trying to be a bit more precise. Codifying the "happy path" of expected user interaction isn't technically regression testing, and that's the primary stuff I meant.
[14:59:05] LyndsySimon: matthewd: Yes, a visual diffing tool is on my list of things to incorporate.
[14:59:27] matthewd: I guess it just seems odd to me to automate getting them to exactly the right place, then ask them to [e.g.] click <this particular> button, then look for <this particular> result
[15:00:21] LyndsySimon: That's not *quite* what I'm looking for. I don't want to tell them what to do, that's sorta their job description.
[15:00:51] LyndsySimon: I just want to automate what they're already having to do by hand, and since I'm already having to do it for automated testing, I'd rather just put an additional interface over that existing code than do it twice.
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[15:01:31] matthewd: Surely you have to know what they intend to do if you're going to pre-arrange just the right set of data to support it
[15:02:00] matthewd: Oh, maybe you could get away with a full-database snapshot/restore tool for their local DB? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[15:03:53] ryakh: Any ideas why push into Array is not working in this case? (just out of curiosity) — foo = Hash.new { [] }; foo[:bar] << 2; foo[:baz] = 2; foo # {:baz=>2}
[15:04:39] matthewd: ryakh: That block isn't doing what you intend
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[15:05:08] ryakh: matthewd: what do you mean? I expect it to return [] as a default value
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[15:05:33] matthewd: Okay, well it is doing that
[15:06:03] matthewd: And checking foo[:bar] again will show it continuing to do so
[15:06:09] LyndsySimon: matthewd: The data are too big for a DB restore to be a viable solution, and a big part of this is going to be navigating them through the app to the right spot. There's also the part where they're testing against a deployed instance of the application with anonymized PHI data pre-loaded. Acting against the DB directly is not out of the question, but is a fairly high barrier.
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[15:06:25] LyndsySimon: I've got some ideas how to do it now - it's just a matter of making it happen.
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[15:08:04] ryakh: matthewd: yeah it returns an array which I expect to be referenced to called key and after that I push into that array... or I am wrong? What is happening in reality?
[15:09:00] matthewd: Every time you call foo[:bar] the block is called, and it returns a new array
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[15:16:00] ryakh: matthewd: what about this one? x = []; foo = Hash.new { x }; p x.object_id; p foo[:bar].object_id; foo[:bar] << 2; p foo; p x # 70210950423140; 70210950423140; {}; [2]
[15:16:32] ryakh: matthewd: now in this case I would definitely expect "foo[:bar] << 2" to push into x
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[15:16:53] matthewd: ryakh: And it is
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[15:19:19] ryakh: matthewd: Oh you are correct it does... I guess my expectation is that "foo[:bar] << 2" in this case is that following will happen: "foo[:bar] = x; foo[:bar] << 2". So it will not only push into array but will set hash key to "x"
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[15:19:55] matthewd: Yeah. It doesn't do that. :)
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[16:39:46] Kyle__: Any watir users around?
[16:40:15] Kyle__: Has anyone had luck with identifying a link by the img src associated with it?
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[16:40:23] Kyle__: ACTION hates auto-generated javascript html
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[17:05:10] verumnoslibx: Hi all. I wonder If someone can help me https://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/72meia/embedding_sinatra_with_emberjs_in_a_gem/
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[17:06:12] verumnoslibx: I am looking into how I can ember my simple emberJS frontend (actually only a page) to a sinatra app hosted inside a gem
[17:10:19] theRoUS: does ruby have a class metamethod (like included, etc) that can be defined to be invoked after the class instance is created? i.e., as soon as the constructor has finished?
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[17:14:47] theRoUS: sort of a post-initialize in contrast to ObjectSpace.define_finalizer
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[17:20:24] theRoUS: never mind, found a workaround using inheritance
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[17:34:57] cleopatra: hello people
[17:36:34] Papierkorb: theRoUS: There's not directly something for this. You found a proper solution already, but a meta-programming solution would involve using `prepend MyModule`, in which you provide your #initialize (or whichever methods you want to hook this way). In these hook methods, you call `super`. You can run custom code before and after calling super like normal.
[17:37:51] theRoUS: Papierkorb: basically what i've done. i already have an #initialize that everything inherits and supers
[17:39:02] Papierkorb: a proper OOP solution is a good solution in my book :)
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[20:48:07] ycyclist: What advantage does Socket.gethostname have over `hostname`?
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[20:59:40] havenwood: ycyclist: What do you mean by `hostname`?
[20:59:42] havenwood: The name? A method?
[21:01:12] eckhardt: i.e., system("hostname") vs Socket.gethosntname?
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[21:32:20] havenwood: eckhardt: aha, thanks
[21:32:26] havenwood: that makes sense
[21:32:39] havenwood: they're both gethostname(3) it seems
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