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#ruby - 12 October 2017

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[00:32:26] nymous: ok, i'll turn back when i'll have more things implemented
[00:32:35] nymous: thanks for help, folks
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[03:03:33] havenwood: fantastic4_orang: hi
[03:03:36] fantastic4_orang: is there a way i can generate an array of all UTF-8 characters
[03:06:10] havenwood: fantastic4_orang: you really want a couple million characters?
[03:06:37] teatime: the highest potentially-valid codepoint is 0x10FFFF
[03:06:40] elomatreb: It gets especially difficult when you consider what a character is - Do you also want all possible ZWJ sequences?
[03:06:44] teatime: the highest actually-assigned char is some lower number.
[03:07:18] teatime: you can go through them and check each for validity.. we do this in #perl6 sometimes on the bot, but I dunno maybe it would be more problematic in Ruby? :)
[03:07:48] teatime: also be clear what you mean when you say "character"
[03:08:01] teatime: a "character" is a complicated thing in unicode
[03:09:04] fantastic4_orang: doesnt matter if its printable or not, im just doing a sort of Caesar cipher type thing for example code. as long as i can cast the into to the right Unicode char and be able to compare one unicode char to another it should be enough
[03:10:51] teatime: fantastic4_orang: perhaps you mean "codepoints" when you say "character".
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[03:12:54] teatime: most people mean "grapheme" when they say "character"... e.g., how many characters would you say are in a unicode string encoding one Latin capital letter "A", and one combining-accent like "´"
[03:13:00] teatime: displays as "Á
[03:13:33] teatime: it displays as "Á", but it contains two codepoints
[03:13:36] havenwood: Ruby 2.5 adds #each_grapheme_cluster and #grapheme_clusters
[03:13:45] teatime: counting codepoints is trivial, counting graphemes is harder
[03:13:49] havenwood: To complement #chars and #codepoints
[03:14:43] teatime: havenwood: hells yeah, I did not know that... thought only Perl6 was tackling that :)
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[04:44:41] RickHull: matthewd: still around?
[04:45:31] matthewd: RickHull: Yep
[04:46:02] RickHull: see what I mean(t) about the elixir pipe operator, how it can't work for ruby unless all instance methods return self?
[04:46:56] RickHull: that is: method chaining approximates the elixir pipe if we are rigorous about returning self
[04:48:03] matthewd: Hmm.. only for Elixir functions that are equally rigorous about returning their first argument
[04:48:33] RickHull: you should try elixir for a week ;)
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[04:50:22] matthewd: Yeah, probably so. AIUI Elixir pipe only works given the assumption that each pipeline entry returns the right value to pass as the first argument to the next.
[04:50:39] RickHull: the mechanism is very simple
[04:50:49] RickHull: in elixir, it works nicely, consistently, and reliably
[04:50:54] RickHull: and it expresses good things
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[04:51:48] matthewd: .. which still sounds, to me, immaterially different from Ruby's chaining only working if each entry returns something suitable to pass as the zeroth argument
[04:52:36] RickHull: fair enough, I am doing a poor job. Recall the primacy in ruby between the method receiver and the method's first arg
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[04:55:03] matthewd: Right.. I think the argument is that there are Ruby methods which do a poor job of choosing their argument order (including the receiver)
[04:55:29] RickHull: in ruby you have a receiver and you have first arg
[04:55:43] RickHull: in elixir you just have a first arg
[04:56:09] matthewd: I'm claiming that given an identical set of methods in Elixir and Ruby, which take exactly the same arguments in the same order (where the first arg in Elixir == the receiver in Ruby), Ruby's "." and Elixir's "|>" perform exactly the same operation
[04:56:36] RickHull: recall the counterexample where i pump a float into the pipeline
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[04:56:47] matthewd: "in ruby you have a receiver and you have first arg" is no different to me saying "in elixir you have a first arg and you have a second arg"
[04:56:47] RickHull: and do I get a Float#method
[04:56:53] RickHull: or a method(float)
[04:57:20] RickHull: it matters which one you choose
[04:57:23] RickHull: ruby didn't choose
[04:57:25] matthewd: There's no such thing as method(float) -- it exists as a method with a receiver
[04:57:28] RickHull: elixir chose
[04:57:54] matthewd: You mean Elixir chose which argument to put first?
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[05:00:05] matthewd: I agree that |> is in practice more ergonomic in Elixir
[05:01:23] RickHull: it has some deep follow-on effects :)
[05:01:36] matthewd: I'm solely claiming that `a |> b(c, d)` and `a.b(c, d)` are mechanically identical to the respective interpreters -- both invoke `b` (though finding it using different rules) with an argument list of `a, c, d`.
[05:01:59] RickHull: yikes, I can't untangle this on my own tonight -- been playing soccer
[05:02:12] RickHull: but I like the thought :)
[05:04:15] matthewd: I think I'm mostly trying to dispute the notion that adding |> to Ruby is a practical / approachable 'fix' to gain the ergonomics Elixir provides (or, equivalently, be convinced I'm wrong)
[05:05:53] matthewd: I mean.. maybe it is. Maybe supporting `a |> b.c(d)` as a fancy spelling for `c(b, a, d)` is interesting/necessary, despite Elixir not having a spelling for that argument mixture, *because* of Ruby's established argument-placement precedents.
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[05:10:18] RickHull: more charitably, I would say that pipeline-oriented programming goes back to early unix days as well as foundational functional programming
[05:10:41] RickHull: we understand intuitively what it means to pipe values through a pipeline of operations
[05:14:15] RickHull: a tiny bit of transcendentalism gets you currying
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[05:22:35] RickHull: how did perl6 work back in the olden days?
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[06:19:55] Murugesan: Hi Everyone
[06:20:03] havenwood: Murugesan: hi
[06:20:58] Murugesan: i am new to this.. what kind of discussion will be happening here ?
[06:22:01] havenwood: Murugesan: We talk about the Ruby language and its libraries mostly.
[06:22:02] dminuoso_: Murugesan: If you have questions that you could not answer yourself by a reasonable amount of research using documentation and google, then this is possibly the right place.
[06:22:36] Murugesan: okay thanks for the clarification.. :)
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[07:51:27] Veejay: Hello everyone, I am looking to interact with an interactive script (certbot using the manual plugin, which asks questions along the way). What would be the easiest way to start that script in a Ruby script and send it user input programatically? Something from Open3, PTY, some expect library?
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[07:54:46] rob_: Veejay: 'expect' is a tool to do what you've described, it's not ruby though
[07:55:07] rob_: Veejay: https://linux.die.net/man/1/expect
[07:55:36] rob_: oh, you mentioned expect :)
[07:56:24] rob_: Veejay: http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.4.2/libdoc/pty/rdoc/IO.html#M002150
[08:00:09] Veejay: Yeah I saw that yesterday
[08:00:20] Veejay: But the documentation is raw as f***
[08:00:30] Veejay: I'll check that out, see if I can find examples around
[08:00:32] Veejay: Thanks a lot
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[08:38:34] Bish: can i safely use base64 to encode base58?
[08:38:50] Bish: or am i just stupid
[08:38:58] Bish: now i can't nvm.
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[09:12:06] havenwood: Bish: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/db125e3b9ee32337993ee75dee187c2b
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[09:13:43] havenwood: hrmm, I should just unshift and not reverse...
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[09:15:06] Bish: havenwood: thanks alot
[09:15:24] havenwood: Bish: no prob, updated the gist
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[09:25:51] dminuoso_: havenwood: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d53c59e31cdaa1bbbb7b2c7a166f2e8e
[09:25:56] dminuoso_: This is my new way of writing elegant Ruby code.
[09:26:32] dminuoso_: That asterisk if you wonder is a self written Proc#* that acts as compose ;)
[09:28:33] havenwood: dminuoso_: Friend, you speak my mind: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/cab7ba801d991cbb1307
[09:29:55] dminuoso_: haha amazing :)
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[09:32:12] dminuoso_: havenwood: I like that Proc.compose you write, especially with that :to_proc twist.
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[09:32:27] dminuoso_: Though I'm thinking that reduces typing strength a bit too much
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[09:37:18] dminuoso_: havenwood: The one thing I'm beginning to appreciate most is lenses though.
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[18:04:40] baweaver_away: dminuoso / dminuoso_: https://github.com/lazebny/ramda-ruby
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[18:05:02] baweaver: havenwood ^
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[18:08:24] dminuoso: baweaver, but I want bifunctors :(
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[18:09:01] baweaver: PRs welcome :)
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[18:09:11] baweaver: Ramda will take care of most of the base at least
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[18:11:07] dminuoso: baweaver, wooow!
[18:11:09] dminuoso: baweaver, https://github.com/txus/kleisli
[18:11:36] dminuoso: I mean it's just a >, but this is actually readable!
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[18:13:49] dminuoso: I guess it could trivially be extended to support for something like >>-> for kleisli composition
[18:13:56] dminuoso: i.e. Proc#>>
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[18:17:31] havenwood: baweaver: ah, nice!
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[18:19:17] baweaver: <->, >=->, <=->, *->, +->, --> # dminuoso have fun
[18:19:41] baweaver: |, &, and others too
[18:20:07] dminuoso: baweaver, I only wish we could trivially use methods in a point free style :(
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[18:21:09] baweaver: That's what I have ES6+ for
[18:21:31] baweaver: With this newer gem - https://github.com/tc39/proposal-pipeline-operator
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[18:35:35] baweaver: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2017/10/10/ruby-2-5-0-preview1-released/ - It's coming! :D
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[18:39:58] cagomez: whats the syntax for assigning to a variable and immediately using it as a condition for a case statement?
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[18:42:04] baweaver: case a = b ?
[18:42:11] baweaver: = returns the value
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[19:39:52] morfin: anybody aware about build fails on other compilers than GCC of older Ruby?
[19:42:03] ule: Hey guys.. I need some insight on something.. I have a method that is basically doing this: "def to_h { @data } end"
[19:42:21] ule: I'm gonna move this method to a Base class, so how can I deal with this @data?
[19:42:42] dminuoso: ule, just out of curiosity, what is that broken syntax supposed to mean?
[19:42:44] ule: @data is being set on my common class via "initialize"
[19:42:55] ule: dminuoso: just to put all in one line
[19:43:10] dminuoso: ule, it's still a syntax error.
[19:43:22] ule: def to_h
[19:43:25] dminuoso: I can compile this with my head into a synta xerror.
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[19:43:44] dminuoso: ule, `def to_h @data; end` would be the way :)
[19:43:54] ule: ohh thanks!
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[19:44:59] morfin: oops i forgot about SSLv3
[19:45:11] dminuoso: ule, technically you can just move it into the base class as is.
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[19:45:23] dminuoso: ule, but I would consider it poor style if @data actually comes from the derived class.
[19:45:29] morfin: which was removed and old Ruby do not build without patch
[19:45:45] ule: dminuoso: for some reason, I was thinking on some kind of :delegate
[19:46:05] dminuoso: ule, you could lift the initialization into the base class.
[19:46:33] dminuoso: ule, def to_h { @data } en
[19:46:38] dminuoso: https://eval.in/879265
[19:47:37] ule: dminuoso: thats great
[19:47:41] ule: thank you very much
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[20:09:53] morfin: Clang 5.0.0 everything is ok(compiled 2.3.0)
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[20:49:50] guardian: hello, I'm playing with Rouge, writing a formatter but I'm a beginner
[20:50:04] guardian: I'm building an array of lines (strings) out of streamed tokens: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25728449/
[20:50:25] guardian: is there a more idiomatic way to write this? instead of appending to a string and an array?
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[20:52:37] havenwood: guardian: Using #map twice then #join should work well.
[20:52:57] garyserj: hi I am in windows. Does ruby have an interpreter and if so then what is it called
[20:53:06] garyserj: err i wrote that badly..
[20:53:12] garyserj: I mean does it have an interactive form?
[20:53:25] garyserj: an interactive command interpreter.
[20:53:54] havenwood: guardian: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/5f5fd7d5c369a8c027a943e615acce74
[20:54:06] havenwood: ?irb garyserj
[20:54:07] ruby[bot]: garyserj: irb is "interactive ruby", it is part of ruby. You can run ruby code and see results immediately. it's useful for testing code. Also see ?pry, a gem which is a popular alternative to irb.
[20:54:16] ruby[bot]: Pry, the better IRB, provides easy object inspection `ls`, `history`, viewing docs `?`, viewing source `$`, syntax highlighting and other features (see `help` for more). Put `binding.pry` in your source code for easy debugging. Install Pry (https://pryrepl.org/): gem install pry pry-doc
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[20:54:52] guardian: likely already better https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25728476/
[20:54:58] guardian: ah havenwood thanks!
[20:55:22] guardian: that's cool, I love when I learn things. Thanks for caring :) <3
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[21:10:16] garyserj: havenwood: thanks
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[21:30:28] ruby[bot]: -bb ResidentBiscuit!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection *!*@unaffiliated/residentbiscuit$#ruby-fix-your-connection
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[21:47:14] top: Is anyone here or do people just join and quit?
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[21:47:35] havenwood: top: Lots of people are here. You might want to turn off join/part notification.
[21:47:45] top: Ah okay. This is my first time ever using IRC.
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