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#ruby - 22 October 2017

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[00:01:04] banisterfiend: not this one :/
[00:02:07] cADO: Hey guys, I'm using rails 5 and the devise gem, does some1 knows how to have two devise models with custom controllers so I can have different sign up forms?
[00:04:56] cADO: im having trouble using the same ApplicationController
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[00:25:29] zanoni: #devise has a channel, you may have already know, best answer i can give
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[00:36:35] banisterfiend: does anyone know how to specifcy the bundler version for travis
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[01:06:10] tongueroo: wondering if any rubyist can help explain how thor parses the "desc" and "method_options" to use internally later. https://github.com/erikhuda/thor/wiki
[01:07:14] tongueroo: looking at https://github.com/erikhuda/thor/blob/master/lib/thor/parser/options.rb for clues
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[01:12:22] havenwood: banisterfiend: before_install: gem uninstall bundler --force --executables && gem install bundler --version 1.1.1
[01:13:00] havenwood: banisterfiend: there might be an elegant way, dunno!
[01:13:10] banisterfiend: havenwood thanks, any idea why the fuck it would be installing an ancient version of bundler on travis?
[01:13:21] banisterfiend: i dontspecify version anywhere butit seems to want to isntall and old broken versino that is breaking all my specs
[01:14:18] havenwood: banisterfiend: Ah, I guess a simple `gem install bundler` gets the newer version, so removing the old one isn't actually necessary.
[01:14:24] havenwood: https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/3531
[01:14:40] havenwood: So just: before_install: gem install bundler
[01:15:29] havenwood: banisterfiend: it takes a little while extra, but i actually do a: before_install: gem update
[01:15:33] havenwood: which would also handle it
[01:15:48] banisterfiend: yeah the weird thing is it's only using an ancient version on one ruby verson build
[01:15:54] banisterfiend: on the other ones it's using the most recent
[01:17:41] havenwood: I figure since we actually use latest bundled and default gems in production, that updating those pre-`bundle` actually gets it the closest to prod.
[01:19:04] havenwood: Neat how they're really going all-in on default gems in 2.5: https://stdgems.org/2.5.0/
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[01:57:48] baweaver: banisterfiend: ohai
[01:59:56] baweaver: Haven't seen you about in a while.
[02:00:09] baweaver: Started at Square. 'tis a good place.
[02:01:33] banisterfiend: baweaver nice, software engineering still or devops?
[02:01:57] baweaver: Was DevOps at Playstation, went over to Frontend (Ember / Rails)
[02:02:34] baweaver: I like it a lot more. DevOps is thankless work.
[02:02:35] banisterfiend: i had enough of that shit for 4 years
[02:02:37] banisterfiend: rails/webdev is terrible
[02:02:37] banisterfiend: can't stand it
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[02:02:49] banisterfiend: i'm doing more systems stuff now, C programming and posix stuff
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[02:03:51] banisterfiend: completely bored of learnign the ins and outs of 1000 different gems you need for web development
[02:04:05] banisterfiend: absolutely detested webdev
[02:04:13] baweaver: don't touch Node then XD
[02:04:40] baweaver: Rails has _nothing_ on the shenanigans you have to swing on package management there.
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[02:05:17] baweaver: React was bad enough that Facebook eventually made a generator for it
[02:06:20] baweaver: If you ever find yourself wanting to go stateside though, we have embedded over here ;)
[02:06:22] banisterfiend: baweaver what products to square build?
[02:06:40] baweaver: Credit card readers, small business loans, and some others
[02:06:53] baweaver: Those white squares you jack into a phone was where it started
[02:07:18] banisterfiend: i think i prefer to work for small companies now
[02:07:22] baweaver: Mostly Go, Ruby, Java, and Ember.
[02:07:25] banisterfiend: teams of 3-4 devs
[02:07:30] banisterfiend: instead of 15 people teams like at my last job
[02:07:49] baweaver: Understandable. Most teams here are ~5-8, though this is the smallest company I've been at.
[02:07:58] banisterfiend: and smaller companies have less meetings, less process, less management interference
[02:08:18] banisterfiend: i think whenever a company i work for gets big i'll leave and find a smaller company again
[02:08:45] banisterfiend: yeah i guess you were at sony that must have been nuts
[02:09:01] baweaver: ACTION sighs
[02:09:23] baweaver: that one's PM worthy
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[04:45:02] iamyask: I have a time like this: -> "2017-10-24T06:00:00.00Z"
[04:45:21] iamyask: and I want to convert it to this format -> "2017-10-29T06:00:00Z"
[04:45:37] iamyask: How can I do that ?
[04:46:03] iamyask: ^ Note the amout of zeroes after T06:
[04:47:48] iamyask: Anyone ? I am new to ruby!
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[04:55:27] basket: iamyask: DateTime.iso8601('2017-10-24T06:00:00.00Z').strftime('%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ') #=> "2017-10-24T06:00:00Z"
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[08:33:20] Hexafox[I]: If I want to import a yml config file to be accessible from every ruby file in my program what would be the best way?
[08:33:55] Hexafox[I]: Not sure how rails does it with Rails.application.secrets
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[09:09:16] apeiros: Hexafox[I]: you store it in a globally accessible place
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[09:11:04] apeiros: constants or places accessible from a constant (like Rails.application.secrets) are most common
[09:11:25] apeiros: less common (because it's a worse solution) are globals. but don't use globals.
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[09:13:05] matthewd: A library has no business playing with globals, but it seems a pretty reasonable option for an application IMO
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[09:19:42] apeiros: since we've got constants, I disagree.
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[09:21:41] apeiros: (on the pretty reasonable option for an application part, that is)
[09:21:53] matthewd: I guess I just don't see the fundamental distinction between globals and top-level constants: they're both globally-accessible hash tables
[09:22:13] apeiros: Foo isn't the same everywhere
[09:22:46] apeiros: >> Foo = 1; module Bar; Foo = 2; class Bar; def foo; Foo; end; end; Bar::Bar.new.foo
[09:22:47] ruby[bot]: apeiros: # => /tmp/execpad-f57602297e4f/source-f57602297e4f:7: syntax error, unexpected end-of-input, expecting ke ...check link for more (https://eval.in/884480)
[09:23:00] matthewd: Sure.. but people treat it like it is
[09:23:00] apeiros: >> Foo = 1; module Bar; Foo = 2; class Bar; def foo; Foo; end; end; end; Bar::Bar.new.foo
[09:23:02] ruby[bot]: apeiros: # => 2 (https://eval.in/884481)
[09:23:32] apeiros: "people use X wrongly, therefore we should just go ahead and use the wrong tool instead"? that argument doesn't resonate with me :)
[09:24:46] apeiros: as far as I see it, globals could just be dropped entirely from the language
[09:24:49] matthewd: My argument looks more like "people often don't use unique-property-of-X, therefore X and Y seem interchangeable for those use cases"
[09:25:24] apeiros: they may superficially seem, but they aren't. I can do more about constants than I can do about globals.
[09:25:39] apeiros: even if you use constants like globals, *I* still can do more about it
[09:25:54] apeiros: so even in that situation, I prefer you using constants
[09:26:24] apeiros: besides of the fact of course that every gem/application should stuff its things under a single top level constant - which isn't possible with globals.
[09:26:27] matthewd: There is no you and I on the application side
[09:26:36] apeiros: of course there is
[09:26:59] apeiros: unless your application doesn't make any use of any 3rd party code.
[09:27:22] matthewd: 3rd party code isn't application code, it's library code, and as I said, has no business playing with globals
[09:28:32] apeiros: ok. I still feel its pointless and not a good idea.
[09:29:43] apeiros: another point of you and I re application: me exploring your code. it's easier to figure what things belong to and exist for if you have the tree structure of constants vs. flat-thing globals.
[09:29:52] matthewd: I think I like the idea partly *because* libraries have no business there: it gives the application a free namespace
[09:30:43] matthewd: Sure, but we're talking about things that are intended to be globally accessible -- which to me implies they're going to get a top-level constant anyway
[09:31:09] apeiros: as said before: I don't think that's not how it should be done.
[09:31:19] apeiros: YourApplication::YourGloballyAccessibleThing
[09:31:26] apeiros: or YourApplication.your_globally_accesible_thing
[09:31:44] apeiros: but never ::YourGloballyAccesibleThing when you have ::YourApplication
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[09:32:22] apeiros: one gem, one library, one application - each of those should have one top-level constant and that's it. if you want to access things without the top level constant, make it a module and include it in your files.
[09:32:30] matthewd: Yes, if you're going to namespace everything you define, you're treating your application more like a library, and the rule would then apply
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[09:32:57] matthewd: IME people don't actually structure their applications that way, though
[09:33:11] matthewd: (and not just Rails)
[09:36:20] apeiros: bad role models breeds bad successors *shrugs*
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[09:38:25] matthewd: That wasn't the prevailing convention pre-Rails, either
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[09:38:46] apeiros: correct. if it had been, rails might have done better too.
[09:39:15] apeiros: though rails ignored a couple of conventions even at its inception. so who knows, it might have ignored that one too.
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[10:20:37] Hexafox[I]: apeiros, Why are constants better than globals?
[10:20:57] apeiros: because you can namespace them.
[10:21:35] matthewd: Also because you get a warning if you reassign them
[10:22:21] Hexafox[I]: I was told everything that starts with an upper case letter is a global
[10:22:35] matthewd: No, they're constants
[10:22:51] apeiros: everything that starts with a $ is a global
[10:22:53] matthewd: .. which are globally accessible, but are not "global variables", which start with $
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[10:23:17] Hexafox[I]: I don't think I have ever seen a global then.
[10:23:54] matthewd: Yeah, apart from a couple that control ruby itself, they're rare in modern code
[10:24:47] Hexafox[I]: I have seen namespaced constants in rails though, one website I made had stuff like Spree::Product
[10:26:38] matthewd: Yes, that is a thing (was that a question?)
[10:26:53] Hexafox[I]: Nah I think I have it worked out now.
[10:27:14] Hexafox[I]: So classes are constants as well?
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[10:27:41] matthewd: Classes are stored in / named by constants
[10:28:27] matthewd: The constant is separate from the class itself, though
[10:29:09] matthewd: >> class A; def hello; "hi"; end; end; B = A; B.new.hello
[10:29:10] ruby[bot]: matthewd: # => "hi" (https://eval.in/884510)
[10:30:36] matthewd: (the first constant a class is assigned to is actually special, because the class remembers that as its name.. but they're still fundamentally not the same thing)
[10:31:24] matthewd: >> c = Class.new; A = c; B = c; c.name
[10:31:25] ruby[bot]: matthewd: # => "A" (https://eval.in/884511)
[10:33:09] Hexafox[I]: Hmm. Why does it pick A over B?
[10:33:25] Hexafox[I]: Because that one was first?
[10:34:07] matthewd: When a constant is assigned, if the value is a class and the class doesn't have a name yet, it names itself after that constant
[10:34:21] matthewd: When we set B, the value already has a name, so nothing happens
[10:35:08] matthewd: >> c = Class.new; A = c; A = 7; B = c; [c.name, A]
[10:35:14] ruby[bot]: matthewd: # => /tmp/execpad-017e6f726ffe/source-017e6f726ffe:2: warning: already initialized constant A ...check link for more (https://eval.in/884517)
[10:35:47] matthewd: >> $-w = nil; c = Class.new; A = c; A = 7; B = c; [c.name, A]
[10:35:48] ruby[bot]: matthewd: # => ["B", 7] (https://eval.in/884518)
[10:38:17] matthewd: Okay, apparently things are a bit more subtle than I thought. But the above gives ["A", 7] on 2.4.
[10:38:45] matthewd: >> $-w = nil; c = Class.new; A = c; c.name; A = 7; B = c; [c.name, A]
[10:38:46] ruby[bot]: matthewd: # => ["A", 7] (https://eval.in/884520)
[10:39:22] apeiros: <pedant-mode> s/if the value is a class/if the value is a module/ (it works the same for modules and Class subclasses Module)
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[10:44:56] apeiros: !badnick tmm88
[10:44:56] ruby[bot]: +bbb $a:tmm88$#ruby-banned tmm88!*@*$#ruby-banned *!*@unaffiliated/tmm88$#ruby-banned
[10:44:56] ruby[bot]: ruby[bot] kicked tmm88: is not suitable for this channel, see http://ruby-community.com/pages/user_rules
[10:45:21] apeiros: -b $a:tmm88$#ruby-banned
[10:45:26] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[11:26:32] tyil: Im trying to run jekyll in a docker container, but I get the error "jekyll 3.5.2 | Error: Permission denied @ rb_sysopen - /dev/core"
[11:26:45] tyil: does anyone know why, and how I can resolve this?
[11:28:47] scorpiosec: how to start with ruby
[11:29:07] scorpiosec: and what i will capable with it
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[11:30:00] tyil: ruby is a general purpose language, so you pretty much do whatever you want
[11:30:38] tyil: what are you trying to accomplish, scorpiosec?
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[11:46:28] scorpiosec: tyil: is it like python and java
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[11:48:17] tyil: its like python in that it is an interpreted language, its like java in that it is OO
[11:48:56] tyil: again, what are you trying to achieve :p
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[11:49:21] scorpiosec: i want to be a programmer
[11:49:32] tyil: depending on your needs, perl 6 might be interesting, it has ideas from a multitude of languages making it suited for many tasks
[11:49:49] tyil: do you have any prior programming experience?
[11:50:18] scorpiosec: just foundamental
[11:50:47] scorpiosec: i have a degree in cs but i was studying networks
[11:51:08] scorpiosec: but i want to learn programming
[11:51:34] scorpiosec: what is the most used language in your opinion
[11:53:28] tyil: most used is probably still c
[11:54:47] tyil: most beginners find network programming in c to be rather hard to get in to
[11:55:02] zanoni: scorpiosec: for learning to program, and with ruby , many use this book: https://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
[11:55:08] tyil: ruby would do fine for your usecase, and so would perl 6 or python
[11:55:45] tyil: look at some code examples and see which syntax you like the most tbh
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[11:58:54] scorpiosec: tyil: so which should i start with perl 6 and python then ruby ?
[11:59:28] scorpiosec: zanoni: i need to hear from you in you experience
[11:59:34] tyil: I personally greatly prefer perl 6, but it's mostly personal preference
[12:00:02] scorpiosec: ok so what can i do with perl
[12:00:14] Harzilein: scorpiosec: there will be some bias when you ask in the respecive communities, don't you think?
[12:00:28] tyil: perl 6, the number is important, but there are little things it cant do
[12:00:38] Harzilein: scorpiosec: all mentioned programming languages are turing complete
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[12:01:35] Harzilein: scorpiosec: all of perl5, python, ruby have mature collections of community-written libraries. (i'm not sure about perl6, does it have its own cpan?)
[12:01:38] tyil: perl 6 has sockets for network programming (both sync and async), grammars for parsing data (and optionally acting upon certain constructs, to create your own DSL for instance), it has interfaces to load c or python libraries if you need them, it has a c-like syntax
[12:02:01] tyil: Harzilein: perl 6 has its own cpan, but it can make use of perl 5 modules too
[12:02:41] Harzilein: scorpiosec: imho you could do worse than starting w/ ruby
[12:03:03] tyil: it seems someone is working on Inline::Ruby for perl 6, so in some time it can load ruby modules too probably
[12:03:16] scorpiosec: Harzilein: so what should i do ?
[12:03:46] Harzilein: scorpiosec: like people said above, look into the introductory materials for those languages and pick one that resonates with you
[12:03:50] tyil: scorpiosec: its impossible to say which lang is "best" for you, it all depends on what style fits you
[12:04:03] tyil: and what exact problem you want to solve
[12:04:23] tyil: ruby and python are arguably easier to learn than any perl version
[12:04:27] scorpiosec: can you give examples cuz i donno
[12:04:42] tyil: scorpiosec: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code
[12:04:45] scorpiosec: problems like what
[12:04:54] tyil: on that site you can find a plethora of code samples
[12:04:59] tyil: for all kinds of problems
[12:05:12] tyil: you can use that to find a certain syntax you like most
[12:06:16] tyil: for instance, generating a fibonacci sequence in ruby: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Ruby
[12:06:39] tyil: or perl 6 http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#List_Generator
[12:06:50] tyil: or python http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Python
[12:06:52] zalipuha[m]: https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/ruby/
[12:06:53] zalipuha[m]: also nice for short intro
[12:08:06] scorpiosec: ok can you give examples of projects you work on in each language
[12:08:28] matthewd: scorpiosec: Why do you "want to learn programming"?
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[12:09:38] Harzilein: scorpiosec: you want a random problem? ok, i'll tell you something i made in the 90s: find formulae for blood alcohol concentration after ingesting x ml of y proof alcohol w/ blood amount estimated from body weight. then find the formula about rate of metabolized alcohol. make a dialog for entering persons w/ their body weight.
[12:09:39] scorpiosec: to be able to solve crypto challenges and learn more about web apps
[12:09:51] tyil: scorpiosec: I mostly have perl 6 examples, I'm here just to get help on an issue I have with running a ruby application
[12:10:08] Harzilein: scorpiosec: make a dialog for selecting a person and a drink
[12:10:44] scorpiosec: Harzilein: cool
[12:10:49] Harzilein: scorpiosec: have it determine, calculated from the metabolism rate, how drunk each person is
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[12:12:45] Harzilein: scorpiosec: you'll have some i/o in there, some calculations, compound data structures, mild "system" level stuff to find the current time.
[12:13:00] scorpiosec: ok security professionals what they learn
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[12:15:04] Harzilein: scorpiosec: they might actually build their own from whatever they are used to
[12:17:13] Harzilein: scorpiosec: since it involves manipulating some kind of runtime or the other, you just want to have abstractions for your manipulations so you can try more things and more focused things. all mentioned languages allow you to do this. depending on the subject matter, the runtime you are trying to manipulate might be close to the metal, so you'd pick up c and any platform's assembly as a necessity.
[12:18:27] scorpiosec: so c is what what is should go to
[12:18:37] scorpiosec: for solving ctfs
[12:18:44] Harzilein: scorpiosec: i'd not overthink your decision, it'll be almost unavoidable to learn multiple languages
[12:19:43] scorpiosec: so how can i practices problem solving challenges
[12:20:31] matthewd: If you already know Java, why not use that?
[12:21:39] scorpiosec: so now i need to practices problem solving
[12:22:05] Harzilein: scorpiosec: think about it like you apply the programming to a subject matter that happens to be programming. that has always be the case anyway, infosec or not.
[12:23:22] tyil: programming is a means to an end
[12:23:31] scorpiosec: is there like changes website to practices on
[12:23:32] tyil: you have a problem, and some program might be able to solve it
[12:23:38] tyil: so you write a program to solve it
[12:24:59] scorpiosec: where i can find problem to solve
[12:25:28] tyil: go to any office, ask for the manager and apply for a job
[12:25:29] Harzilein: scorpiosec: 6502 assembly can be picked up in a weekend. both java and ruby have libraries for interpreting opcodes. write an emulator/debugger to see which part of a 6502 binary (think nes game) changes a particular memory location.
[12:25:34] tyil: they'll give you many problems to solve
[12:26:04] Harzilein: scorpiosec: that'll be pretty close to the things you might want to figure out in an infosec capacity
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[12:28:40] scorpiosec: so what about resources like lynda and pluralsight
[12:32:14] Harzilein: never heard of them. are those the kind of didactics that taught you java?
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[12:36:10] zanoni: if you want problems to solve, go to CodeWars, they have a ton of challenges, and support multiple languages
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[12:41:51] Harzilein: i think he might have a motivation problem if he can only think of "i want to use the big boys' tools" as a goal
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[14:38:29] apeiros: -b *!*@unaffiliated/tmm88$#ruby-banned
[14:38:34] apeiros: -o apeiros
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[15:01:48] Prutheus: Im ny gtk main window, I have a vertical box which contains some stuff and at the bottom there is a scrollable box with an horizontal box inside. But why are the buttons inside this box so big? see here https://imgur.com/hu4qbAD
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[15:13:14] ineb: prutheus: why are you asking a gtk specific question in #ruby?
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[15:29:23] Prutheus: ineb: can you help?
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