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#ruby - 01 December 2017

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[00:57:15] b10s_: hi2all; is it ok to use instance variable inside mixin?
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[00:57:53] b10s_: i mean, i want to get values of instance variables inside mixin
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[01:19:10] RickHull: b10s_: mixins explicitly support accessing instance variables
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[01:26:04] chiggins: Getting an error trying to setup active record and a schema with it. Seems like an error internal to active record though? https://gist.github.com/Chiggins/dbf3aea1bada355f36298cd3d62d05b1
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[01:28:02] RickHull: I like this take on mixins: https://matt.aimonetti.net/posts/2012/07/30/ruby-class-module-mixins/
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[01:30:09] RickHull: chiggins: no idea, looks like a bug in AR -- you can try #rubyonrails too
[01:30:16] ruby[bot1: Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
[01:30:31] chiggins: RickHull: Awesome, thanks
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[02:29:31] b10s_: is it possible to OOM killer kill Ruby's thread, not a process?
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[02:32:11] RickHull: do you mean: is it possible that Linux's OOM killer would kill only a ruby thread and not the entire process?
[02:32:36] RickHull: it seems doubtful
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[02:49:46] RickHull: it looks like Linux OOM is process oriented https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/html/understand/understand016.html
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[02:52:40] b10s_: RickHull, thanks
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[04:27:10] notmyrealname: Hi, anyone know some ways to read keyinput from a terminal that's not curses?
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[04:30:24] havenwood: notmyrealname: https://ruby-doc.org/stdlib/libdoc/io/console/rdoc/IO.html#method-i-getch
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[04:32:03] havenwood: notmyrealname: require 'io/console'; $stdin.getch
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[04:33:49] notmyrealname: havenwood: Thanks. Playing with it right now.
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[04:40:12] notmyrealname: havenwood: I found this gist https://gist.github.com/acook/4190379 and this gem https://github.com/acook/remedy that look interesting.
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[04:54:34] havenwood: notmyrealname: if i recall correctly, io/console started as a gem but was adopted into the stdlib
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[05:16:57] notmyrealname: havenwood: Thanks for the tip. I'm now going to dissappear into the mist. :)
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[05:45:14] riceandb1ans: what is the recommended HTTP client gem for Ruby?
[05:45:34] riceandb1ans: Basically want to write a REST client
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[05:51:17] havenwood: riceandb1ans: HTTP.rb is among many nice gem options. Net::HTTP is of course in the stdlib.
[05:51:29] havenwood: riceandb1ans: https://github.com/httprb/http
[05:56:37] riceandb1ans: So you can do GET/POST with stdlib?
[05:56:46] havenwood: riceandb1ans: yes
[05:58:06] riceandb1ans: I'll probably just go with that then
[05:58:32] riceandb1ans: Also, does mechanize ever get any love or am I like the only weirdo left using it
[05:58:37] riceandb1ans: I swear I feel alone in the world using it
[05:58:55] riceandb1ans: if there's something better for what it does/did please let me know, nokogiri makes me cry
[05:59:00] havenwood: riceandb1ans: Mechanize uses Net::HTTP under the hood.
[05:59:24] havenwood: riceandb1ans: Oga is a Nokogiri alternative fwiw.
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[05:59:34] riceandb1ans: Ok, but anything that does the xpath stuff with less pain would make me day
[05:59:40] havenwood: riceandb1ans: https://github.com/YorickPeterse/oga
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[07:31:15] slegr: Who here?
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[07:37:09] havenwood: slegr: see: /names #ruby
[07:38:59] slegr: How to commit suicide?
[07:40:03] havenwood: !kick slegr
[07:40:03] ruby[bot]: +bb slegr!*@*$#ruby-banned *!*@217.118.91.83$#ruby-banned
[07:40:03] ruby[bot]: ruby[bot] kicked slegr: offense, see http://ruby-community.com/pages/user_rules
[07:41:25] ruby[bot]: -bb slegr!*@*$#ruby-banned *!*@217.118.91.83$#ruby-banned
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[10:00:59] TvL2386: hey guys, I'm having a String returned from a HP switch that has: 'Serial Number: \xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF Core Dump: YES'
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[10:01:57] TvL2386: The encoding of this String is Encoding:ASCII-8BIT (whereas all other commands executed have encoding Encoding:UTF-8)
[10:02:49] TvL2386: when this string is dumped to json, I get an error: Encoding::UndefinedConversionError: "\xFF" from ASCII-8BIT to UTF-8
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[10:04:01] TvL2386: it's probably due to newer firmware, I suspect a bug in the switch firmware, because an interactive ssh session also shows weird chars in that output
[10:04:17] TvL2386: however, for now I need to work around it and want to filter it out
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[10:05:04] TvL2386: I thought I would do output.gsub('\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF','*************') but it seems those chars are not matched
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[10:09:28] TvL2386: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8368835/utf-8-error-in-ruby
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[10:10:53] nick1: has joined #ruby
[10:11:17] nick1: I first use IRC.
[10:11:23] nick1: very cool.
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[10:12:52] nick1: welcome jokke
[10:14:17] nick1: I come from China.
[10:15:00] nick1: 有人陪我聊天吗
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[10:16:26] nick1: welcome lunarkitty7
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[10:18:46] TvL2386: oh buy nick1
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[10:19:45] adaedra: Patience is rare nowadays
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[10:20:13] TvL2386: so it seems :)
[10:21:04] ruby[bot]: check https://gist.github.com/apeiros/39acc5b486f932403638 - it might contain useful informations to solve your encoding problems
[10:21:16] adaedra: Seems you solved your problem, but this can be helpful, TvL2386
[10:21:30] TvL2386: I'm checking it out adaedra! thanks!
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[10:22:54] adaedra: uh, no apeiros?
[10:24:13] adaedra: He's one of the founders, he wrote the document above, and is usually always here
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[10:42:08] TvL2386: adaedra: interesting read!
[10:42:18] TvL2386: will surely help me in the future :)
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[10:44:02] plexigras: how can i get time until in a human readable format?
[10:45:00] plexigras: so 1000 is `in 1 second` and -1000 is `1 second ago`
[10:46:20] plexigras: *not 1000 but .1 and -.1
[10:46:37] plexigras: no not .1 and -.1
[10:46:52] plexigras: im retarded
[10:46:58] adaedra: There's probably a gem for that, but I don't know any
[10:47:17] adaedra: I think rails has something like that
[10:47:21] dminuoso_: Yeah it's called moment.js
[10:47:34] adaedra: ¡kick dminuoso_
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[10:47:59] adaedra: \o dminuoso_
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[10:48:45] adaedra: SASL is a good thing to avoid blinking
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[10:49:23] dminuoso: adaedra: But yeah, Rails has helpers in ActionView (!), and they're of low quality.
[10:50:37] dminuoso: http://api.rubyonrails.org/v5.1/classes/ActionView/Helpers/DateHelper.html
[10:50:57] dminuoso: They're not properly grammatically inflected for different languages
[10:51:00] adaedra: It would surprise me that no one would have made a gem for this
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[10:51:56] dminuoso: I know radar has a gem for this, but it has a focus on precision rather than this "humanized form" moment.js provideds
[10:52:06] dminuoso: (Which would do stuff like "about 4 months ago")
[10:52:16] adaedra: Americans should not be programming software, they always forget there are other countries
[10:52:26] dminuoso: Whereas Radars would rather provide you with "4 months, 3 days, 17 hours [...] ago"
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[10:53:07] plexigras: dminuoso: yeah where can i find something like that?
[10:53:44] dminuoso: plexigras: Would something like the last be good enough for you?
[10:53:56] plexigras: that sounds perfect
[10:53:57] dminuoso: plexigras: https://github.com/radar/dotiw
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[10:54:34] dminuoso: You can configure it slightly to the accuracy that you want, check out the documentation.
[10:54:49] adaedra: And dminuoso saves the day
[10:55:15] dminuoso: Radar does.
[10:57:20] plexigras: thank you verry much
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[10:58:30] plexigras: is it normal to take for ever to install a gem?
[10:58:52] adaedra: If it has native extensions, it can take some time
[10:59:52] adaedra: Normally it tells you "Building native extensions"
[11:00:51] dminuoso: Well the thing is, this gem will pull actionpack behind it.
[11:01:18] dminuoso: So that could be quite a bit if you don't have a rails application already.
[11:01:40] plexigras: and i just put `require 'dotiw'` in the file?
[11:01:55] dminuoso: plexigras: That depends on whether you use Bundler or not.
[11:02:34] plexigras: i dont understand, im a total newbie
[11:03:11] plexigras: what do i need to do to get this to work?
[11:03:19] plexigras: this cant be to hard right?
[11:06:10] plexigras: this is frustrating
[11:06:18] plexigras: dminuoso: can you help me?
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[11:10:57] plexigras: ok i think im just gonna give up on this
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[12:02:48] AlHafoudh: is there any gem to do throttle method calls in ruby? something like javascript lodash _.throttle does. I just found rate limiting tied to rack. i need just to throttle method call
[12:02:51] AlHafoudh: or some block
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[12:05:38] dminuoso: AlHafoudh: If at all, this should be a modification of Proc
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[12:05:50] AlHafoudh: dminuoso : thats ok
[12:05:51] dminuoso: And I think it could be easily done
[12:07:45] dminuoso: AlHafoudh: Interesting, I found something: https://github.com/hx/debouncer
[12:08:00] dminuoso: Oh wait, you wanted throttling!
[12:08:22] dminuoso: AlHafoudh: How do you want to handle backpressure?
[12:09:29] AlHafoudh: its only for logging progress percentage. i want to print the progress percent at least each 500ms lets say
[12:10:10] dminuoso: So you want lossy backpressure?
[12:10:25] AlHafoudh: yes I guess
[12:13:54] dminuoso: AlHafoudh: Do you need it in just one place, or do you want some abstraction to reuse in multiple places?
[12:15:50] AlHafoudh: I just came up with some implementation
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[12:16:55] dminuoso: Ive done some digging into this particular library https://github.com/socketry/timers
[12:17:09] dminuoso: It looks well written, and can easily be used to build some rate thottling around it
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[12:19:57] plexigras: is there a interval function?
[12:20:10] dminuoso: &ri Range plexigras
[12:20:10] `derpy: plexigras: http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.4.1/Range.html
[12:20:31] AlHafoudh: dminuoso https://gist.github.com/alhafoudh/e1ccfa0020643df2495614ed21cdb9b0
[12:20:59] dminuoso: AlHafoudh: Oh right. Lossy backpressure.
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[12:29:14] plexigras: dminuoso: i mean a timer interval
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[12:52:01] Xano_: Hi! I have zero Ruby knowledge, but need to install a particular third-party Gem as part of a tool stack I am installing. The documentation recommends installing the Gems globally, causing all kinds of permission issues. What's a common approach to handle this? I assume there's another solution than running Gems with `sudo` :)
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[12:52:23] Xano_: It's about https://docs.amazee.io/local_docker_development/pygmy.html to be specific
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[13:51:06] caen23: hi, i was wondering what are good resources to get started with ruby. is the pickaxe fine for 2.4? i have programming experience (coming from c and python), and i'm not currently interested in rails. thanks!
[13:52:18] dminuoso: caen23: The pickaxe while being a good book is relatively old.
[13:52:41] caen23: that's what i was afraid of
[13:53:14] dminuoso: caen23: If you have good experience, you could just get the book "Eloquent Ruby" or perhaps "The Well Grounded Rubyist" which are currently the two most recommended books in this channel
[13:53:20] dminuoso: caen23: Beyond that the topic has a good booklist
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[13:53:29] dminuoso: (Which incidentally does list the pickaxe)
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[13:54:24] caen23: i did check out the list in the topic before asking, but it said twgr is for "introduction to programming in general" and that put me off as well
[13:55:49] dminuoso: caen23: Hardly.
[13:56:03] dminuoso: caen23: I guess it can work for some, but its very steep.
[13:57:00] dminuoso: caen23: Eloquent Ruby is probably the best fit for you.
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[13:57:33] dminuoso: caen23: The "introduction to programming" is basically just the first 4 pages or so.
[13:57:50] caen23: i'll get eloquent then, thanks a lot ^^
[13:58:08] dminuoso: Just checked my copy, its 10.
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[14:19:56] srandon111: hello all, where do i start with ruby ? can somebody advice me some good books about software design ?
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[14:22:12] dminuoso: 14:53 dminuoso | caen23: If you have good experience, you could just get the book "Eloquent Ruby" or perhaps "The Well Grounded Rubyist" which are currently the two most recommended books in this channel
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[14:25:27] srandon111: dminuoso: what about software design with classes... i mean do you generally use UML ?
[14:25:34] srandon111: or start by writing code directly ?
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[14:29:41] dminuoso: UML is terrible at most things.
[14:30:19] dminuoso: We start by collecting user stories.
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[18:00:31] hockerfan11: Hello. I am trying to get the gem installation path in a users home directory programmatically. I seem to be able to get ALL the gem paths through 'gem env path', but can I get ONE of those paths without parsing this list?
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[18:41:48] dminuoso: Whatever problem you have, baweaver is happy to help you.
[18:42:00] dminuoso: ACTION goes to the supermarket
[18:42:17] dminuoso: Again.. havenwood and baweaver appearing at the scene at the same time.
[18:42:21] dminuoso: Suspicious stuff.
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[18:52:52] RickHull: quick, what's some ruby code to discover the letters they have in common?
[18:53:00] RickHull: what words can we make with them?
[18:54:16] dminuoso: >> "foobar".chars.uniq
[18:54:17] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => ["f", "o", "b", "a", "r"] (https://eval.in/911679)
[18:54:50] RickHull: we just want the intersection, not uniq
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[18:55:06] dminuoso: Intersection with WHAT
[18:55:28] RickHull: >> "baweaver".chars.insersect "havenwood".chars
[18:55:30] ruby[bot]: RickHull: # => undefined method `insersect' for ["b", "a", "w", "e", "a", "v", "e", "r"]:Array ...check link for more (https://eval.in/911680)
[18:55:36] dminuoso: RickHull: Array#&
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[18:55:52] dminuoso: And what words we can make with them is easy
[18:56:06] RickHull: >> "baweaver".chars & "havenwood".chars
[18:56:06] dminuoso: >> ("baweaver".chars & "havenwood".chars).combination
[18:56:07] ruby[bot]: RickHull: # => ["a", "w", "e", "v"] (https://eval.in/911681)
[18:56:08] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => wrong number of arguments (given 0, expected 1) (ArgumentError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/911682)
[18:56:41] havenwood: ACTION wave
[18:56:42] dminuoso: >> ("baweaver".chars & "havenwood".chars).permutation.to_a
[18:56:43] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => [["a", "w", "e", "v"], ["a", "w", "v", "e"], ["a", "e", "w", "v"], ["a", "e", "v", "w"], ["a", "v", ...check link for more (https://eval.in/911683)
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[18:56:53] baweaver: ACTION wave
[18:57:01] RickHull: the evidence mounts
[18:57:13] dminuoso: It is known.
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[18:58:08] dminuoso: But this is not FP enough for me.
[18:58:17] RickHull: is it ever?
[18:58:27] dminuoso: Now I need to make strings behave like lists..
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[18:58:39] dminuoso: that way you just need to do: intersect "bawaver", "havenwood"
[18:59:03] RickHull: bawaver, heavenwood
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[18:59:09] dminuoso: Hey hey, dont hilight them!
[18:59:23] dminuoso: If you're using "bawaver" and "havenwood" you are just talking about ruby code, that's legit right?
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[19:17:01] baweaver: ACTION wanders back in
[19:17:05] baweaver: ACTION chuckles
[19:17:09] baweaver: ACTION wanders back out
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[19:23:08] havenwood: I'm just happy that people stopped insisting that I'm a bot.
[19:24:15] baweaver: YOU'RE NOT!?
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[19:38:18] RickHull: does it walk like a bot?
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[20:00:33] dminuoso: See, this is why duck typing sucks.
[20:00:36] dminuoso: havenwood agrees.
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[20:15:05] baweaver: dminuoso: yep
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[20:30:01] mikecmpbll: slightly strange question, but would it be possible to detect and log when a float is created that is NaN?
[20:30:18] mikecmpbll: i'm trying to trace where NaN is generated in some complex mathematical code.
[20:30:19] RickHull: >> 1.2.nan?
[20:30:20] ruby[bot]: RickHull: # => false (https://eval.in/911717)
[20:30:37] mikecmpbll: yes, i don't really wanna stick that after every operation
[20:30:51] mikecmpbll: trying to do some (dirty) hacking to make my life easier.
[20:30:58] dminuoso: mikecmpbll: Mmm. Yes.
[20:31:10] dminuoso: mikecmpbll: There's set_trace_func ..
[20:32:03] dminuoso: mikecmpbll: I would look into enabling #MF
[20:32:50] dminuoso: mikecmpbll: http://wiki.osdev.org/Exceptions#x87_Floating-Point_Exception
[20:33:02] dminuoso: Is this what you possibly want?
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[20:33:52] mikecmpbll: i have no idea what that means, unfortunately.
[20:33:55] mikecmpbll: so i couldn't tell ya
[20:34:02] baweaver: +1 set_trace_func
[20:34:27] mikecmpbll: ACTION is currently googling set_trace_func, looks good so far
[20:34:29] RickHull: you could monkey-patch division with a nan check and maybe #caller
[20:34:40] baweaver: https://ruby-doc.org/core-2.4.2/TracePoint.html
[20:34:46] dminuoso: RickHull: Not just division. It should be any operation
[20:34:47] baweaver: mikecmpbll: ^
[20:34:52] baweaver: That's the 2.4+ variant
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[20:35:04] dminuoso: RickHull: Bah Id just enable #MF and hope Ruby uses native FP arithmetic :P
[20:35:29] dminuoso: i.e. set CR0.NE
[20:35:44] RickHull: FP = floating point here, right?
[20:35:54] baweaver: Just throw a binding.pry in there whenever the condition is true or have it log out where it got hit
[20:36:01] dminuoso: That or fluffy puffy
[20:36:13] mikecmpbll: it's actually bigdecimal that i'm working with, not float. just realised my earlier misspeaking but don't think it makes any diff
[20:36:19] RickHull: I doubt what you get from the FPE thingie will map well to ruby code
[20:37:38] dminuoso: RickHull: If FP is done natively and CR0.NE is set, then a CPU exception is emitted on unmasked fp exceptions.
[20:37:49] dminuoso: Which means you get a bugsplat with a ruby backtrace.
[20:39:24] RickHull: there should be a mode to raise on NaN
[20:39:30] RickHull: or maybe a way to monkeypatch that in
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[20:40:06] RickHull: boosh: https://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.1.1/libdoc/bigdecimal/rdoc/BigDecimal.html#method-c-mode
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[20:40:16] RickHull: sorry for the 2.1.1, sue me :)
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[20:44:57] dminuoso: RickHull: There is.
[20:45:01] dminuoso: Its called CR0.NE :P
[20:45:08] dminuoso: It raises an exception..
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[20:45:11] dminuoso: except you cant catch it :P
[20:45:12] mikecmpbll: RickHull : 😮
[20:45:23] mikecmpbll: wtf how didn't i stumble upon that myself. eugh
[20:45:29] mikecmpbll: that'll do nicely.
[20:45:54] mikecmpbll: thanks all :D and i learned about TracePoint.
[20:46:24] dminuoso: RickHull: I think this actually uses this.
[20:47:32] RickHull: this.self === self.this
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[20:54:22] RickHull: anyone play Traveller tabletop RPG? I have some questions for you in #ruby-offtopic please :)
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[21:14:01] cr3: hi folks, I'm calling `sh "docker build ..."` in a Rakefile; the command returns an error message but copy/pasting the command on the shell runs fine. any ideas?
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[21:17:07] RickHull: paste the code and the error
[21:17:46] RickHull: and it's generally better to call shell processes like: `sh command_name, arg1, arg2, ...`
[21:17:52] baweaver: in a gist preferably :D
[21:18:16] ruby[bot]: https://gist.github.com - Multiple files, syntax highlighting, even automatically with matching filenames, can be edited
[21:18:17] baweaver: nuuuuuuuu bot
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[21:18:56] RickHull: so: `sh 'docker', 'build', 'the_thing', 'to_do',, 'stuff'`
[21:19:06] RickHull: except without extra commas
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[21:31:12] ule: correct if I'm wrong, but if I have two different object_ids, that means two different objects in memory right?
[21:31:52] dminuoso: ule: Object ids are actually memory addresses.
[21:32:08] havenwood: a bitshift away
[21:32:18] ule: so if I use foo.keep_if instead of foo.select I'm gonna save memory since it mutates the object instead of creating a new one
[21:32:30] ule: correct?
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[21:33:32] dminuoso: havenwood: Im afraid to answer, because I dont want to support mutating objects.
[21:33:34] dminuoso: havenwood: Can you please?
[21:34:13] havenwood: ule: Check your presumptions about memory usage and speed with metrics and benchmarks. Things may not be as you'd expect.
[21:34:22] ule: mutating objects its ok if it mutates in the last statement of a method though.
[21:34:32] havenwood: ule: Sometimes memory and speed matter less than predictability and testability.
[21:34:38] ule: havenwood: I did a benchmark and keep_if looks to be faster than select
[21:34:48] havenwood: ule: Did you check it with realistic data?
[21:34:55] havenwood: Is it meaningfully faster?
[21:35:02] ule: Array(1..100_000_000)
[21:35:15] havenwood: ule: Is that the same data you'll be working with?
[21:35:29] ule: I'd say 10 vs 6
[21:35:55] ule: thats a good point
[21:36:04] havenwood: ule: I'd suggest trying metrics and benchmarks with as realistic data as possible. Then see if the differences are important enough to be worth mutating.
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[21:36:28] ule: havenwood: you think mutating is slower than creating a new object?
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[21:37:19] havenwood: ule: Is it premature optimization?
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[21:38:08] havenwood: "If a pure function mutates some local data in order to produce an immutable return value, is that ok?" ;-)
[21:39:13] dminuoso: ule: The way the code works, is that it scans the array, and moves items to the left if the match, resizing the array at the end.
[21:39:23] ule: if I mutate something that is the last statement from my method, knowing that Im gonna return that same data at the end, I'm actually saving 1 new object in memory and no risk of mutating since there is no more operations after that
[21:39:37] dminuoso: ule: It shouldn't be meaningfully more expensive to use #select over #select!
[21:40:00] ule: dminuoso: 1 method call is 1 object, how about 100.000 method calls? 100.000 objects in memory
[21:40:16] dminuoso: What do you mean with method calls?
[21:40:26] dminuoso: The percentage cost is still the same.
[21:40:45] dminuoso: ule: Let me ask differently. Did your profiler tell this is in a hotspot?
[21:40:51] ule: dminuoso: you mean, if we considerate that mutates is slower than creating a new object
[21:41:21] ule: but on a benchmark using numbers it shows to be faster
[21:41:42] dminuoso: ule: Ignore benchmarks. Do you have code that suffers in performance, with the profiler telling you this is hot?
[21:42:07] dminuoso: If this is not a hot spot, we shouldn't be talking about this (i.e, use #select)
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[21:44:25] ule: no. I just want to convince myself that if doesnt matter mutate or not since its the last statement in the method, 2 positive points on using keep_if instead of select is that it saves memory and its faster
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[21:44:44] ule: but I agree that mutating something in the middle of something could mess things up
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[21:44:58] dminuoso: And it mutates. Mutating objects means you cant use this trivially in concurrency situations, and it makes code error prone.
[21:45:55] ule: but if the variable Im mutating is isolated inside a method scope, and its not an instance variable, then there is no concurrency
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[21:46:39] ule: It was nice that my coleague bring this up review my code though. I got a chance to braindstorm better about all this
[21:46:47] ule: *brought
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[21:47:51] dminuoso: ule: So you have ruled out the first part. What about the second?
[21:48:05] ule: which second?
[21:48:13] dminuoso: "and it makes code error prone"
[21:48:36] ule: I don't know what that means actually
[21:48:52] dminuoso: ule: Is the array from an argument?
[21:48:55] dminuoso: Or is it created locally?
[21:49:00] ule: from argument
[21:49:06] dminuoso: So it is shared!
[21:49:32] ule: foo(a) a.keep_if { something
[21:49:35] dminuoso: And therein lies your problem. If you mutate arguments, this can trip anyone up in the entire callgraph above you that have access to the arra
[21:50:23] ule: thats all the method does. even if I use .select instead, the goal will be the same. Get rid of something and return it
[21:50:55] ule: I indeed want to change the data and return something else
[21:51:18] dminuoso: ule: Without seeing your code I can just assume that the array can come from multiple places. Lets assume I have some arr = [1,2,3], and I call some function writeToLog(arr), and that method happens to pass my array to yours, now my array has been mutated.
[21:51:33] dminuoso: If I use my arr any further, its different.
[21:52:07] ule: Thanks for sharing some thoughts with me guys
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[21:55:28] clemens3: sometimes the caller explicitly wants the method to change the argument, sometimes it doesn't, use ! in the method name to indicate this.. if in doubt, create a new object and return that..
[21:55:59] dminuoso: clemens3: If you want it to change, feel free to do: arr = foo(arr)
[21:56:14] clemens3: dminuoso: exactly
[21:56:26] clemens3: is like sub and sub! etc.
[21:56:59] s778: Hello! I'm wondering if anybody here has any suggestions. I've sent in a feature request for Ruby on the issue tracker, completele with a patch to help implement said feature, but I haven't received any reply in 14 days. Am I going about this the wrong way?
[21:57:08] dminuoso: That reminds me, my Q library needs to scan ObjectSpace for all classes, and undef_method any method ending in ! :D
[21:57:22] dminuoso: s778: Link your issue please
[21:57:33] s778: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14111
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[21:57:58] dminuoso: Well that was funny.
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[21:59:52] dminuoso: s778: I think something that touches diagnostics in this fashion is very likely to take time and discussion.
[22:00:08] dminuoso: s778: You seem to have gotten nobu's attention, be patient now.
[22:00:39] dminuoso: But I like the idea.
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[22:00:40] s778: I'm okay with that, I'm just not entirely sure what to expect or how to act
[22:00:51] dminuoso: s778: What did nobu respond with?
[22:01:03] RickHull: google translate does a good job, so far as I've read
[22:01:06] dminuoso: Oh wait, translate yeah
[22:01:21] RickHull: I would say: be patient and respond to questions
[22:01:28] RickHull: not much else to do
[22:01:28] s778: Oh, he just said "this seems like a decent idea" and gave some pointers on how it could be implemented
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[22:02:33] s778: Alright, just sit tight then I suppose
[22:02:48] RickHull: also, you can maybe raise it on the appropriate mailing list
[22:03:02] dminuoso: s778: nobu is frequently the deciding factor in such matters, so if he thinks its a good idea that's also good :)
[22:03:04] RickHull: to get some more discussion / feedback / attention
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[22:04:29] dminuoso: RickHull: So I have learned about semantic editor combinators today!
[22:05:20] dminuoso: These will work in Q too (:
[22:07:43] RickHull: I need to take a break from Ruby to get back into FP mode :/
[22:08:23] dminuoso: s778: Translation question: sentry-ravenに頼ってはいけないでしょう
[22:08:25] dminuoso: What is that about?
[22:08:56] s778: I meant to say "it's probably not a good idea to rely on sentry-raven" (the gem)
[22:09:52] dminuoso: But I like what you are doing. Finally they get a taste of "them speaking badly in our language" of their own!
[22:09:56] s778: For the PoC implementation I grab the filename and parse it using some library from sentry-raven, then read the function prototype that's defined on that file
[22:10:02] RickHull: what does it do? any change to ruby core functionality would not rely on a gem
[22:10:12] s778: haha, might as well try, right?
[22:10:18] dminuoso: s778: How would this treat lambdas?
[22:10:36] s778: Oh good question, I haven't tested that
[22:10:58] RickHull: also, I will raise(ArgumentError, "don't do that") in my own methods sometimes
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[22:11:07] RickHull: would this work automagically?
[22:11:56] s778: No, it'd only work on argument errors instantiated by the Ruby. And even then only on methods called that exist in rubyland. For example, it wouldn't work on File.open().
[22:13:56] dminuoso: s778: Also you might want to respect tabs/spaces in your patch
[22:14:12] dminuoso: The sudden shift when just looking at the diff is slightly annoying
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[22:14:36] s778: That's fair, thanks, I'll try to fix that.
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[22:16:05] dminuoso: s778: What revision is the patch against?
[22:17:09] s778: Just tested it on procs by the way, doesn't work. Interestingly, the "receiver" becomes an integer, rather than a class?
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[22:17:49] dminuoso: s778: Is it possibly the object id or addr of the lambda?
[22:17:49] s778: dminuoso: the branch "trunk" as I found it on GitHub
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[22:19:41] dminuoso: s778: huh..
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[22:19:53] dminuoso: foo.rb:3:in `block in <main>': wrong number of arguments (given 0, expected 1) (ArgumentError)
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[22:22:07] dminuoso: s778: argument_kw_error should be patched just as well
[22:22:13] dminuoso: Perhaps even more importantly. :-)
[22:22:46] dminuoso: Or not sure, but it should be consistent
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[22:23:55] s778: I should be able to test that with something like `def foo(a:); end; foo()`, right?
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[22:28:01] s778: Shoot, you're right, that doesn't work. Thanks!
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[23:22:31] RickHull: dminuoso: haven't started it yet but going to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjv9GxPXtck RubyConf talk on static types in ruby
[23:22:42] dminuoso: Is it a HM type system?
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[23:24:17] dminuoso: This better be higher kinded.
[23:24:34] baweaver: Narrator: It wasn't
[23:26:32] baweaver: meme game is weak
[23:26:40] RickHull: arms are heavy
[23:27:40] s778: there's vomit on my sweater already?
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[23:28:04] dminuoso: that stuff kind of happens when you vomit when sitting on your chair.
[23:28:40] dminuoso: RickHull: oh boy this blows.
[23:28:43] dminuoso: Only local type inference?
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[23:29:33] RickHull: dunno yet, still chewing through other stuff, but I don't think you could call it ruby with a powerful type system
[23:29:55] dminuoso: well HM is powerful.
[23:29:59] dminuoso: And complete
[23:30:44] RickHull: if you get all the type goodies you want, it would probably be something different from ruby
[23:31:02] dminuoso: Yes, it would look like Haskell.
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