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#ruby - 26 February 2018

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[00:00:59] mkvrick: i have a question maybe someone could answer: i configured a prog, rake compiled it .. ending was: all done! Enjoy! .. but,
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[00:01:32] mkvrick: no program to be found ! only a shared library file with the name of the program instead of the .exe
[00:01:59] mkvrick: any ideas ?? i am baffled
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[00:03:03] mkvrick: there were no errors for configure and no errors during the rake compile *shrug*
[00:04:28] maesitos: a ruby exe?
[00:04:53] mkvrick: no, the program was to make an .exe
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[00:05:19] mkvrick: ruby is installed to be able to use Rake
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[00:05:46] maesitos: I can't help you there sorry
[00:06:10] mkvrick: ah, ok, thank you very much for trying :)
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[00:06:45] ruby[bot]: -bbbb chouhoulis!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection chouhoul_!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection chouhou__!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection chouho___!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection
[00:06:46] ruby[bot]: -bb chouh____!*@*$#ruby-fix-your-connection *!*@50-207-64-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net$#ruby-fix-your-connection
[00:06:54] mkvrick: i thought maybe someone here would have an idea ... many here are experts at ruby , i am a newbie
[00:07:23] maesitos: I know ruby but don't know anything about your particular issu
[00:08:14] mkvrick: is there another command that i omitted maybe ? like rake compile or rake build ???
[00:10:22] mkvrick: i just typed configure ... when it finished, i typed rake ... all went smooth and well ... but no program to be found *baffled*
[00:11:14] mkvrick: errors can be googled, but this one leaves me with little to go on
[00:12:56] mkvrick: sheesh, skeerd him off
[00:13:03] mkvrick: ... *hides* ...
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[00:16:58] havenwood: mkvrick: Can you use #find_or_create_by! there?
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[00:17:38] havenwood: mkvrick: oops, wrong person
[00:17:41] havenwood: maesitos: ^was
[00:18:29] havenwood: mkvrick: what program was it? if it was a gem I'd know where to point you, but a rake task could do anything. share the code of the rake task?
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[00:20:07] mkvrick: the program is mkvtoolnix, it uses configure, then rake to compile. what is puzzling is there were no errors.
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[00:21:30] mkvrick: i asked my question here, thinking maybe i omitted a rake command or something ... thank you for your help though
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[00:22:26] maesitos: I'm not sure
[00:22:38] maesitos: run rake -T
[00:22:55] maesitos: and maybe there you get more info about the task you run
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[00:23:21] maesitos: maybe the exe file was put somewhere in your system...
[00:23:22] mkvrick: ah, good idea, is rake -T the same as rake --trace ?
[00:24:43] mkvrick: well i did do rake install and also rake destdir= , to find it only made some shared library files with no extention
[00:25:57] mkvrick: the lib files were the correct name of the program it was supposed to make ... for kicks i added the .exe to the files, but they are lib files, not executables
[00:26:12] maesitos: maybe it's better to read the documentation if you don't know ruby as they'll say what rake did exactly
[00:27:15] mkvrick: i think that the rake -T command will lead me to some information for a fix ... thank you maesitos
[00:27:16] maesitos: rake is just an app to move things and run certain commands
[00:27:23] maesitos: it's a bundle for a set of commands
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[00:28:27] mkvrick: what i have gathered is that rake is ruby make
[00:28:55] maesitos: yeah it's he equivalent of C's make
[00:28:56] mkvrick: i am more familiar with the makefiles, but never hurts to learn something new
[00:29:58] maesitos: maybe the mkvtoolnix documentation...
[00:30:54] mkvrick: oh boy, the mkvtoolnix docs ... they are quite misleading
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[00:31:38] maesitos: then open the rake file and inspect it
[00:32:22] maesitos: there should be a line that says "task :install
[00:32:46] mkvrick: i see nothing wrong in the rakefile, besides it ran completely with zero errors
[00:33:08] mkvrick: i shall look for that line : "task : install"
[00:38:00] mkvrick: found it: ... task :install => targets
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[00:45:17] mkvrick: thank you all for your help ... bye now
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[02:50:23] bratchley: I'm trying to find a website I only vaguely recall. It's called like "Is Ruby Still Slow?" and it contains a bunch of graphs of benchmarks from the various versions
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[02:55:03] bratchley: nm just found it www.isrubyfastyet.com
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[02:58:12] bratchley: looks like it hasn't been updated since 2015 though :\
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[03:10:23] havenwood: bratchley: optcarrot is the benchmark of the age
[03:11:28] havenwood: bratchley: https://github.com/mame/optcarrot/blob/master/doc/benchmark.md
[03:15:13] havenwood: bratchley: Ruby 2.6 will have a JIT by the way!
[03:15:42] havenwood: bratchley: TruffleRuby is worth looking at if you're interested in Ruby performance.
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[07:02:21] dminuoso: havenwood: I really gotta run some benchmarks on my FP idioms on truffle.
[07:02:59] dminuoso: havenwood: By the way, do you know why TCO is not enabled by default?
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[07:30:11] Mon_Ouie: dminuoso: I think it has to do with losing some debugging ability due to losing (part of) the stacktrace
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[13:54:34] dminuoso: >> class Λ; end
[13:54:36] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => /tmp/execpad-7255f2f7f2c5/source-7255f2f7f2c5:2: class/module name must be CONSTANT ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963068)
[13:54:37] dminuoso: y u hate me.
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[13:54:48] dminuoso: >> Object.const_set(:Λ, 1)
[13:54:49] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => wrong constant name Λ (NameError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963069)
[13:55:06] dminuoso: ruby[bot]: Dont lie to me. There's nothing wrong about Λ.
[13:55:26] dminuoso: >> λ = 3.141
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[13:55:27] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => 3.141 (https://eval.in/963070)
[13:56:17] dminuoso: >> π = 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944; τ = π * 2; puts τ
[13:56:18] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => 6.283185307179586 ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963071)
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[13:56:57] dminuoso: >> def σ; puts "Unicode works hooray"; end; σ
[13:56:58] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => Unicode works hooray ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963072)
[13:57:18] dminuoso: I want capital greek letters.
[13:57:22] dminuoso: For constants.
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[16:33:28] jim94: when is ruby 3 coming out?
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[16:50:15] clemens3: I hope never
[16:50:34] clemens3: (if true what I heard about backwards compatibility...)
[16:51:54] havenwood: jim94: On or after Christmas 2020.
[16:53:12] havenwood: clemens3: What did you hear? Matz has spoken at length about preserving compatibility.
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[16:54:44] havenwood: clemens3: They're being very careful to avoid a Python 2/3 situation.
[16:55:01] aScottishBoat: what's going on havenwood?
[16:55:06] havenwood: aScottishBoat: o/
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[16:55:41] clemens3: havenwood: glad to hear they learned something from that fiasco
[16:55:58] aScottishBoat: "They're being very careful to avoid a Python 2/3 situation."
[16:56:28] clemens3: python3 does not run python version 2 code
[16:56:35] havenwood: aScottishBoat: Breaking compatibility must come with a cookie.
[16:56:44] aScottishBoat: ah, we're talking about BC
[16:56:46] havenwood: We demand cookies.
[16:56:49] aScottishBoat: yeah, don't do it.
[16:57:00] ruby[bot]: here's your cookie: 🍪
[16:57:12] clemens3: in a commercial environment, you are not spending years to rewrite your applications
[16:57:28] clemens3: rails tried this shit several times on me, and out it went..
[16:58:12] dminuoso: clemens3: Historical garbage can render technologies useless.
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[16:58:25] clemens3: ruby 2 is a fine language
[16:58:42] dminuoso: Fine if you dont dare to look at other languages, sure.
[16:58:43] clemens3: if you want to do something new, fine, name it something new... that will come
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[16:59:13] dminuoso: clemens3: Let's try this. Can you in one sentence explain to me what exactly `next` does?
[16:59:16] clemens3: if the language is not stable, your software is not stable either
[16:59:20] dminuoso: Like, seriously. Try it.
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[17:00:17] clemens3: dminuoso: admitted, ruby is not the best to invoke other processes, or java wasnt either
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[17:00:54] clemens3: dminuoso: but don't brake my code to invoke external stuff either, come up with a new method, that is fine
[17:01:11] clemens3: ... sorry, thought you talk about backwards '
[17:01:18] dminuoso: clemens3: Rails has a very simple mechanism for backwards breaking changes.
[17:01:19] clemens3: you mean next in a loop?
[17:01:31] dminuoso: They deprecate things _long_ in advance while producing _warnings_ long in advance.
[17:01:52] clemens3: dminuoso: ah, rails, well, I was very early on board, and I just rewrote a mapper to the old api and am happy since then
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[17:02:14] dminuoso: clemens3: But seriously. Lets play this game.
[17:02:20] dminuoso: Name the exact semantics of the ruby keyword `next`
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[17:02:27] dminuoso: Without googling or trying it out.
[17:02:28] clemens3: dminuoso: I am not into playing games
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[17:02:33] clemens3: I want stable software
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[17:02:46] dminuoso: clemens3: My point is the semantics of Ruby are not defined anywhere.
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[17:02:58] clemens3: dminuoso: I avoid corner cases to avoid surprises
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[17:05:08] clemens3: dminuoso: have a look of what Linus has to say about this topic, I think Linux is more or less also not defined anywhere..
[17:05:41] clemens3: his credo is: do not break userland..
[17:06:04] clemens3: why? because he is not an ..
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[17:08:06] dminuoso: clemens3: If Ruby had a module system it would be conceivable to have features that you could turn on with a file-by-file basis.
[17:08:57] clemens3: dminuoso: I don't know about modules.. I just know that a new Ruby should not break my or anybody elses stuff
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[17:09:24] clemens3: and just considering such an act gives me a creepy feeling
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[17:09:32] aScottishBoat: do we know anything about what ruby 3 is bringing? is it expected to break BC?
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[17:09:48] aScottishBoat: (fingers crossed that it doesn't)
[17:10:13] aScottishBoat: I got into ruby right when 1.9 was phasing out, so I never really used it. I never read about how the transition went
[17:10:15] dminuoso: clemens3: Honestly your comparison with Linux is a bit bad though.
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[17:10:21] dminuoso: clemens3: Because kernel level APIs change.
[17:10:34] clemens3: aScottishBoat: I hope now, I did not follow it recently, aparently everything is fine.. I just had heard somethign in the past about making strings immutable and the buddies over in pythonland obviously didnt think BC was very important
[17:10:37] dminuoso: clemens3: So the direct users of it have to live with things being deprecated and being kicked out.
[17:11:10] clemens3: dminuoso: I talked userland... if I program an application in Ruby, I consider that Userland too..
[17:11:11] aScottishBoat: clemens3, making strings immutable by default? wtf?
[17:11:21] clemens3: if I write a profiler or such, maybe that is different
[17:11:28] dminuoso: clemens3: Why are we comparing kernel software with userland?
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[17:11:33] clemens3: aScottishBoat: no panic, I am not the expert
[17:12:00] clemens3: dminuoso: ruby is a programming language.. quite fundamental software thingy, like an operating system, or api
[17:12:18] aScottishBoat: hmm I'm not against the idea if there's a switch that can be turned on, but by default it sounds a bit mad to me.
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[17:13:16] clemens3: aScottishBoat: I think I must read up on what is the latest plan..
[17:13:33] aScottishBoat: require 'fp' # functional programming; fp = FP.new.immutable.immutable? # => true
[17:13:51] aScottishBoat: clemens3, I'm very interested in what ruby 3 is bringing. It's coming out in 2020 right? Ugh, far too long
[17:16:10] aScottishBoat: Just learned about this bad boy. https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2018/02/24/ruby-2-6-0-preview1-released/
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[17:21:36] xco: hi all. i have an image with known width and height. and also a focus point (cordinates). what would be the best way to keep the focus point locked on a specific point on the image even after i resize the image?
[17:23:06] xco: i currenty store the focus point as image.focus_x = image.focus_x / width.to_f
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[17:23:41] xco: where image.focus_x is the x cordinate for the focus point on the image and “width” is the with of the image
[17:23:46] xco: similar for the y coordinate
[17:24:45] gizmore|2: sounds it should work
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[17:32:17] xco: yes but it’s not when i resize the image. the focus point goes off
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[17:34:09] havenwood: xco: It sounds like you're not recalculating the focus point dynamically, and you're not updating the cached version when you change the value.
[17:34:13] havenwood: xco: Show the code?
[17:36:05] xco: havenwood: https://gist.github.com/siaw23/f90061797263b362940c282c59ba1702
[17:36:36] xco: so on lines 20 and 21 is where the focus points are stored. “model” = image
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[18:13:07] havenwood: xco: A nice way to say `x > 0` in Ruby 2.3+ is `x.positive?`
[18:13:21] dminuoso: ACTION slaps havenwood
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[18:13:35] havenwood: dminuoso.negative?
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[18:20:07] havenwood: xco: You can: model.focus_x =/ width.to_f
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[18:20:25] havenwood: They left, but I meant: /=
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[18:21:05] xco: havenwood: yeah i know about #positive? :P
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[18:21:48] havenwood: xco: glancing at the gist, i don't see where it's going wrong
[18:22:02] havenwood: xco: What was not as expected? Figure it out?
[18:22:36] xco: yeah i think it’s got to do with the canvas the image is drawn on, the focus points are being done related to the size of the canvas on close inspection
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[18:36:17] dminuoso: havenwood: https://xkcd.com/1270/
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[18:36:51] dminuoso: havenwood: It would be awesome if you could do this
[18:37:07] dminuoso: [1,2,3].map(&:to_s * &:to_s)
[18:37:23] dminuoso: Very rubyesque (= unreadable)
[18:37:54] havenwood: dminuoso: Oh, speaking of scroll-back, they only disable TCO in order to preserve stack trace.
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[18:38:26] dminuoso: havenwood: Ah I presumed as much, didnt know for sure though.
[18:38:35] havenwood: dminuoso: I was just noting the other day that the trace_instruction flag seems to be gone. I wondered if its absence was related to the internal trace changes.
[18:38:43] havenwood: There has been discussion of enabling it by default.
[18:38:52] havenwood: Over the years Matz seems to be warming to the idea.
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[18:39:42] havenwood: dminuoso: until then I have require_relative_with_tco :-P
[18:39:44] havenwood: dminuoso: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/3c5a5e1476c811460992
[18:40:09] dminuoso: Haha. That is funny.
[18:40:51] havenwood: dminuoso: I was considering submitting a patch for: require_relative 'blarg', tco: true
[18:41:04] havenwood: require 'blarg', tco: true
[18:41:08] dminuoso: havenwood: In a bizarre way we're heading in a direction where this is the most sensible candidate.
[18:41:24] havenwood: Maybe they'll just enable it.
[18:41:41] havenwood: dminuoso: Just cache the TCO and non-TCO versions of the bytecode then use TCO if there's a SO. Obviously.
[18:41:51] havenwood: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[18:41:54] dminuoso: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[18:42:09] dminuoso: havenwood: Personally Ive been thinking about submitting a proposal about Proc#*
[18:42:18] dminuoso: But that would mean Id have to look for previously existing proposals
[18:42:31] dminuoso: That led me into the "bleergh, I cant be bothered" mindset.
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[18:43:00] dminuoso: In a way for Proc#* to really rock, you'd need some way of quickly composing something like the above
[18:43:17] dminuoso: You could..
[18:43:19] dminuoso: Wait a second!
[18:43:24] dminuoso: Idea popped
[18:43:26] havenwood: dminuoso: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/cab7ba801d991cbb1307
[18:43:50] dminuoso: Reversed compose?
[18:44:06] ruby[bot]: havenwood: # => nil (https://eval.in/963178)
[18:45:10] dminuoso: havenwood: I have the idea of the century!
[18:45:50] havenwood: ACTION sadly walks away with his idea of the decade
[18:46:06] havenwood: dminuoso: pray tell!
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[18:47:06] dminuoso: havenwood: https://eval.in/963182
[18:47:20] dminuoso: Answer was right in front of my eyes all along.
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[18:47:32] dminuoso: Overload #> for other direction if you prefer
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[18:48:26] dminuoso: havenwood: This could be the thing. Proc#* is so unwieldy because you rarely reify your things and people dont do it.
[18:48:33] dminuoso: But chaining methods, thats what people are good at.
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[18:49:07] dminuoso: This... is slightly buggy because its not associative. But you get the idea
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[18:53:24] dminuoso: havenwood: https://eval.in/963197
[18:54:18] dminuoso: Though it kind of begs the question why one doesn't use -> e { e.to_i.class.to_s }
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[18:54:21] dminuoso: or proc{ |e| ... }
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[19:10:57] dminuoso: hi alexday.
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[19:11:54] alexday: I was reading the well grounded ruby book. there is a operator overloading kind of thing. one class inherits from String and has def +@; upcase; end. what does @ signify
[19:12:37] dminuoso: alexday: `unary`
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[19:13:14] dminuoso: >> class String; def +@; upcase; end; end; +"foo"
[19:13:15] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => "FOO" (https://eval.in/963201)
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[19:28:23] havenwood: alexday: The unary - and + operators are even defined on String these day!
[19:28:26] havenwood: >> greeting = -'hi'; greeting.frozen?
[19:28:28] ruby[bot]: havenwood: # => true (https://eval.in/963208)
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[19:29:26] havenwood: >> greeting = -'hi'; thawed = +greeting; thawed.frozen?
[19:29:27] ruby[bot]: havenwood: # => false (https://eval.in/963209)
[19:30:07] kspencer: what would the best way be if I'm trying to bundle a gem and also run a curl command to download 'micro' (a nano-like text editor with gui-editor-like extensibility) for use by the gem
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[19:31:25] havenwood: kspencer: Are you assuming folk have Go installed or you're distributing binaries?
[19:31:58] kspencer: i'm distributing the binary from the curl command for micro
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[19:33:41] kspencer: as I've already gotten permission from the owner of micro to bundle it with it, thankfully
[19:34:02] havenwood: kspencer: require 'open-uri'; url = 'https://github.com/zyedidia/micro/releases/download/v1.4.0/micro-1.4.0-freebsd64.tar.gz'; File.write File.basename(url), open(url, &:read)
[19:35:25] havenwood: kspencer: That's ^ a simple example of just using OpenURI from the Ruby stdlib to grab one of the binaries and save it to disk in a simple but memory-consuming fashion.
[19:35:43] kspencer: i'm actually going this route 'https://getmic.ro/' and I'm hoping to make and move the binary to the user's bin directory
[19:35:52] kspencer: using fileutils
[19:36:14] havenwood: kspencer: Ah, so you're just shelling out to the install script?
[19:36:40] havenwood: kspencer: You could rewrite that script in Ruby easily enough, but shelling out works too.
[19:37:19] kspencer: I mean I probably could, to be honest, but then the other thing is how to make it run immediately after gem install or bundle install
[19:37:37] havenwood: kspencer: Usually gems just specify the dependency and don't actually install it.
[19:37:51] havenwood: kspencer: A rake task might make sense.
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[19:38:16] kspencer: so rake install and rake install-micro perhaps?
[19:38:56] kspencer: or even override the regular install to run them both at the 'same' time
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[19:44:41] kspencer: hmm I could bundle the micro install script as a executable in the gemspec providing I port it to ruby, that way I have people run x then y, then you're good
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[20:03:59] sonOfRa: What would be the most idiomatic way to turn a hash of the form { a => b, c => d } into a 2d array of the for [ [a, b], [c, d] ]?
[20:04:16] dminuoso: sonOfRa: .to_a.transpose ?
[20:04:21] dminuoso: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[20:04:48] dminuoso: Even more ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[20:05:00] sonOfRa: Huh, for some reason I thought that would yield [a,b,c,d]
[20:05:12] sonOfRa: which is != [ [a,b],[c,d] ]
[20:05:31] dminuoso: sonOfRa: That.. depends on the language you are in 😂
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[20:08:43] al2o3-cr: if you assign to a variable, you can do use splat
[20:09:31] dminuoso: a = *{1 => 2}; p a
[20:09:33] dminuoso: >> a = *{1 => 2}; p a
[20:09:34] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => [[1, 2]] ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963216)
[20:09:46] sonOfRa: #to_a worked just peachy. No idea why I thought that would yield [a,b,c,d]. Though I guess that with the existence of #flatten it makes sense that #to_a doesn't flatten
[20:09:47] dminuoso: al2o3-cr: neat, didnt know you could splat hashes =)
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[20:10:08] dminuoso: sonOfRa: The only two things that flatten are flatten and flat_map =P
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[20:16:14] sonOfRa: How does one manage to keep up with api internals like this for more than 4 languages? I'm decent with java, c++ and rust these days, but ruby eludes me. Bit of PHP on the side doesn't help
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[20:17:00] sonOfRa: Currently working on an older ruby project at work, and while I understand the code and can probably make most of this work, basic stuff like this I just keep having to google, or ask dumb questions like this on IRC
[20:17:35] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Quit Java and C++.
[20:17:53] dminuoso: Your Rust skills will thank you.
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[20:18:11] dminuoso: ACTION .oO( notice how I didn't talk about Ruby there? )
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[20:18:39] sonOfRa: dminuoso: heh.
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[20:20:06] sonOfRa: I could probably quit C++, but I'm too sentimental about java :)
[20:20:44] dminuoso: sonOfRa: I have one good reason against Java. Fear.. I have two good reasons against Java: Fear, Surprise and ruthless inefficiency, are thre...
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[20:20:59] dminuoso: Oh well. Misquoted there sadly.
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[20:21:33] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Come to the ML side. We have functions.
[20:21:43] sonOfRa: Nobody expects the side effect inquisition
[20:21:52] deadnull: is there a idiomatic way in ruby to convert a string to a boolean?
[20:21:55] deadnull: without using eval
[20:21:56] dminuoso: deadnull: !!
[20:22:05] ruby[bot]: dminuoso: # => /tmp/execpad-9eaf50355abd/source-9eaf50355abd:2: warning: string literal in condition ...check link for more (https://eval.in/963218)
[20:22:09] dminuoso: ACTION kicks ruby[bot]
[20:22:17] dminuoso: Assume that said: true
[20:22:37] deadnull: i mean, that was <scary> fast dminuoso
[20:23:07] sonOfRa: Note that !!"false" is true
[20:23:13] sonOfRa: May or may not be what you want
[20:23:33] deadnull: hmm, nope you're correct sonOfRa
[20:23:48] dminuoso: sonOfRa: https://i.imgflip.com/25cbom.jpg
[20:24:09] deadnull: i'm asking the user for the type
[20:24:22] deadnull: and converting, then comparing to existing type
[20:24:29] dminuoso: deadnull: Use a hash.
[20:25:14] dminuoso: sonOfRa: are you familiar with advanced type systems?
[20:25:33] sonOfRa: Not a lot. I've had glancing brushes with haskell in university courses but never fully got into it
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[20:27:04] dminuoso: No way.. did I just.. I think... I found a valid use case of the Y combinator in Ruby.
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[20:34:01] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Would code starting like this scare you? https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/6d8146ec3fe6c7ae9feb4cbfb4ea0e09
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[20:35:21] pedahzur: Hi! Looking for some help using guard in a VM. I read https://github.com/guard/guard/wiki/Command-line-options-for-Guard#running-guard-in-a-vm The instructions there say run `listen -f 127.0.0.1:4000` but the version of listen on which guard depends (">= 2.7", "< 4.0") does not have that option (I am using 3.0.3). Is the doc out of date? Do I not need 127.0.0.1? Is that assumed? Other ideas?
[20:36:25] sonOfRa: definitely. Why would you even. It *might* make more sense if it had reasonable names, i guess?
[20:37:00] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Z is just Zero, S is just Succ
[20:37:04] dminuoso: Does that help?
[20:37:32] sonOfRa: But why would you write C++ like this
[20:37:37] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Why would you not?
[20:37:52] dminuoso: sonOfRa: People have implemented entire turing machines with nothing but templates. :D
[20:37:54] sonOfRa: Because it's entirely unreadable. It would be readable in haskell :)
[20:38:00] sonOfRa: dminuoso: yes, and they're all insane
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[20:39:55] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Here's an amusing all-in-templats brainfuck interpreter: https://github.com/tfc/cpp_template_meta_brainfuck_interpreter
[20:40:19] dminuoso: Note this beautiful usage of template errors to produce output.
[20:40:19] sonOfRa: I'm going to bookmark that and click that when I don't need any remaining brainpower that day
[20:40:35] dminuoso: main.cpp:31:51: error: implicit instantiation of undefined template'debug_t<char_tl<'H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ' ', 'W', 'o', 'r', 'l', 'd', '!', '\n', '\x0D'> >'
[20:40:42] dminuoso: This is lovely.
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[20:41:30] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Though admittely he cheated since he used values.
[20:41:45] dminuoso: He should have used Peano numbers with templates.
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[20:44:28] sonOfRa: ACTION shudders
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[20:46:41] sonOfRa: http://b.atch.se/posts/non-constant-constant-expressions/ this is another nice thing about the darker confines of the behemoth that is C++
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[20:49:52] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Im loving this already.
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[20:49:59] dminuoso: about 40% through =)
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[20:50:24] dminuoso: The stack of things the author is preparing the reader in, is widening with every sentence.
[20:51:11] oezgu: hey guys hope you're doing well, is this chat for the ruby programming language?
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[20:52:07] nofxx: oezgu, steel melting lasers are #1 funny thing to do with ruby, but yeah... here's for the #2
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[20:53:49] dminuoso: sonOfRa: Hah, this is quite subtle.
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[21:01:41] oezgu: has anyone experience with the book the well grounded rubyist?
[21:01:48] oezgu: and do you recommend that?
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[21:27:14] baweaver: oezgu: take a look at the book list in the channel topic
[21:27:25] baweaver: Personally I swear by Eloquent Rubyist.
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[21:28:01] lupine: POODR is where it's at
[21:28:47] baweaver: depends on what you're trying to learn
[21:29:04] baweaver: For starting Ruby I would look into another book first.
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[21:29:45] oezgu: ok. well i am the classical noob that tries to get into programming. ruby was the most appealing language to me.
[21:30:12] lupine: heh. I first learned ruby via chunky bacon
[21:30:29] baweaver: Well Grounded might be better then. Eloquent assumes some past knowledge
[21:30:32] lupine: (_why's poignant guide)
[21:31:02] lupine: it got me through the job interview, so all was well :D
[21:31:17] oezgu: thanks a lot
[21:31:29] oezgu: i just ordered the well grounded rubyist
[21:31:46] baweaver: Given another 8-10m you might start seeing the Lemur book pop up in stores
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[21:34:10] oezgu: for half a year now i am struggling with programming languages. always restarting and relearning. i quit almost a thousand times.
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[21:35:39] oezgu: how were your first steps? and can one learn a language without a mentor?
[21:36:11] oezgu: or be good at programming on one's own so one gets hired one day?
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[21:39:03] lupine: it's difficult to get started. much easier if you have a project that you really want to do
[21:39:08] miah: practice, make mistakes, practice, make more mistakes
[21:39:13] Carll: oezgu: practise, portfolio, perfection
[21:39:24] lupine: some of my earliest projects were games. something I had a motivation to finish - I wanted to play it!
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[21:39:36] lupine: even if it's just reimplementing an existing game, like tetris
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[21:40:10] Carll: or a simple server monitoring tool, start small, present well.
[21:40:48] miah: small is a good recommendation. first projects should have a very small scope.
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[21:40:56] lupine: the other thing that really helped me was a couple of books on computer architecture and formal logic. that might not work for everyone, but I found an understanding of what was going on in hardware (or at least, a semantically accurate logical interpretation thereof) incredibly helpful
[21:42:09] lupine: then I cracked open a copy of delphi and got writing games. even sold a couple in the first few months :D - a simple bingo and blackjack thing
[21:42:20] Carll: plenty of documentation, podcasts, rss feeds to help you start
[21:42:35] Carll: and of course this IRC channel
[21:42:56] lupine: I didn't find lists of exercises, like the advent of code, useful when learning how to program
[21:43:07] lupine: (once you know how to program, they're useful for learning a new language, though)
[21:43:30] kspencer: havenwood: I'm actually porting the getmic.ro script to ruby within a gem, and adding a dependency to my other gem for it, then having a post_install_message let the user know, and also putting checks in my own code to check to see if its installed in the correct directory
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[21:47:32] oezgu: lets say i am trying to create a game. how do i design the UI?
[21:48:05] oezgu: are there special programs written for that purpose in ruby?
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[21:49:16] oezgu: another question, i hope i am not rude to ask multiple questions. do i need to design the front end of a program always with html css and javascript, or can i use ruby to do both front and back end
[21:49:24] WA9ACE: apeiros remember talking about normalizing schemas a few days ago?
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[21:49:31] miah: https://leanpub.com/developing-games-with-ruby/read
[21:49:34] WA9ACE: I'm reading this https://kev.inburke.com/kevin/reddits-database-has-two-tables/
[21:49:35] WA9ACE: and my soul left my body
[21:49:39] miah: want to build a game? read that =)
[21:50:03] oezgu: thanks i just opened that site a minute ago
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[22:09:46] oezgu: now i understand it. i download the gem and then require the gem and start of from there
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