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#ruby - 19 May 2018

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[00:31:30] Ericx2x: Anyone know how to solve this permissions error? https://imgur.com/a/Ek8m9PX
[00:31:45] Ericx2x: Or at least I think it's a permission error. It happens when I do 'bundle install'
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[01:10:19] hays: i notice in the docs they sometimes just add stuff to built-ins ... is that encouraged style in ruby?
[01:13:42] Zarthus: you mean extending existing classes?
[01:14:05] hays: yes or modules
[01:14:09] Zarthus: encouraged: not really (you can look up "Refining"), but nobody is adopting Refining.
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[01:25:26] apeiros: hays: what do you mean, "in the docs they add stuff"?
[01:25:36] apeiros: you mean you notice from reading the docs?
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[01:32:16] parzydeuko: i'm looking for resources to learn functional programming with ruby (i'm a novice to fp)
[01:32:50] apeiros: oy, baweaver, we've got a client for your book :D
[01:33:37] apeiros: dang, and I don't remember the url :( what a terrible colleague I am :(
[01:33:44] ruby[bot]: You can find a list of recommended books at http://ruby-community.com/pages/links
[01:34:19] apeiros: hm, he didn't add it to https://gist.github.com/baweaver/57a7c8296ca2c03effbd8fac1e7f6b40 either :-S
[01:34:32] parzydeuko: not seeing anything related to fp there :<
[01:34:49] apeiros: yeah, I was looking for baweaver's online book
[01:36:40] parzydeuko: oh that's the guy who posted some blog posts on it a couple of days ago. i actually went through them and wanted to study it in a structured manner
[01:40:39] quuxman: There must be a shorter way to accomplish `l.each do |x| foo x end`
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[01:54:24] baweaver: parzydeuko: The fastest way currently is to go through Javascript I'd say.
[01:55:00] baweaver: A lot of similar language concepts, but if you combine with some of my posts from earlier you can apply them directly to Ruby
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[01:55:39] baweaver: apeiros: also that book specifically will be very n00b oriented
[01:55:53] baweaver: I do have plans on an FP style one and a black magic style one later though
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[01:56:20] baweaver: Start here: https://drboolean.gitbooks.io/mostly-adequate-guide-old/content/
[01:56:51] baweaver: Then this is a good application: http://randycoulman.com/blog/2016/05/24/thinking-in-ramda-getting-started/
[01:56:55] baweaver: Ruby has a Ramda, so this one carries over fairly well.
[01:57:42] baweaver: Learning some Scala goes a bit deeper on the pool, and Haskell is basically the standard for most FP.
[01:59:13] baweaver: Ruby and Javascript are both more of LISP descendants. Scala and Haskell can both be considered more of ML descendants than direct LISP.
[01:59:28] baweaver: F# is basically OCaml on .NET
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[02:03:22] baweaver: Raganwald's Kestrel book is pretty great though for Ruby
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[02:16:16] parzydeuko: thanks, I'll look into all that
[02:17:46] parzydeuko: I was hoping to find a whole book on fp in ruby. It's the only language I have experience with that offers some degree of fp so I wanted start there and maybe then move on to something like Haskell
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[11:37:30] arand: Can rspec somehow access a private struct definition? With a *very* contrived artificial example: https://gist.github.com/ienorand/a02b92cd84a062f2f41099261c3baaae, can rspec access the defintion of Test::Chunk in order to test output() in isolation?
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[11:52:47] apeiros: arand: private only affects instance methods
[11:52:54] apeiros: did you mean private_constant?
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[12:07:44] arand: apeiros: Hmm, I did not known that (and I evidently missed testing access via the full namespace).
[12:08:40] arand: Ok, if I were to make Chunk a private_constant, how would I access it then?
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[12:15:41] arand: apeiros: Thanks!
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[14:59:11] ineb: is this design ok? https://paste.xinu.at/97wkn/
[14:59:15] ineb: asking for a friend.
[15:00:08] ineb: ok, friend is me. i have a lots of those traits in my classes. encryptable.. signable.. parseable and so one
[15:00:50] ineb: i dont like the fact that Foo already needs to declare upfront if its encryptable and is getting this eventually by later modules
[15:01:03] ineb: *overwritten
[15:01:15] ineb: but i cant think of any other solution
[15:03:47] apeiros: tell your friend that this looks fine. IMO Foo should have `def decrypt!; raise "#{self.class} should implement #{__method__}"; end`
[15:03:54] ineb: i could avoit it if i would write it like: a = new Foo, a.respond_to?(:encryptable?) but idk
[15:04:07] ineb: a = Foo.new, sorry.
[15:04:29] apeiros: though I wonder whether it makes much sense. You could just test for `respond_to?(:decrypt!)` instead of this. seems much simpler.
[15:04:48] ineb: err yes, thats what i mean
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[15:05:04] ineb: asking the duck if it can swim
[15:05:05] apeiros: ah, I was still typing while you already sent it
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[15:06:10] ineb: ok, cool. thanks for your suggestion
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[15:11:07] cagomez: what does this do? `bills.sum("0.00".to_d, &:amount)`
[15:11:43] apeiros: darn, that bot still not here again :(
[15:11:51] apeiros: cagomez: what parts do you understand?
[15:11:55] cagomez: still sleeping, hehe
[15:12:21] apeiros: na I think it fell out of the channel in a netsplit and its owner has been offline for a while
[15:13:07] cagomez: apeiros, I think it is calling `amount` on all items in the collection. but I've only ever seen `.sum` called like so: `bills.map(&:amount)` . Is `"0.00".to_d` being used as the "starting" value before summing?
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[15:13:30] cagomez: sorry, `bills.sum(&:amount)`
[15:13:36] apeiros: do you know `ri`, the command line tool?
[15:14:04] cagomez: no. does it need to be installed separately from my Ruby installation?
[15:14:43] cagomez: I work with Rails so a lot of times I'm not sure if I'm calling a Ruby or Rails method. So I generally Google
[15:14:45] apeiros: usually not
[15:15:08] apeiros: though with rvm (and maybe other ways of installing ruby), you have to generate the docs manually
[15:15:28] apeiros: google is about the worst replacement for the api docs.
[15:15:43] apeiros: https://ruby-doc.org and http://api.rubyonrails.org
[15:15:49] apeiros: if you want to use the browser
[15:16:28] apeiros: and `ri some_method` / `ri SomeClass#some_instance_method` / `ri SomeClass::some_class_method` in your console (if you've properly installed ruby & generated docs)
[15:16:43] apeiros: ri has the advantage of being exactly the version you installed.
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[15:19:28] cagomez: if `bills.sum("0.00".to_d, &:amount)` is called repeatedly, would this execute N database queries?
[15:20:33] cagomez: (assuming the collection is an AR relation and not an Array)
[15:21:10] apeiros: it'd raise
[15:21:25] apeiros: because AR's sum does not take params like that
[15:21:44] apeiros: but if you'd do relation.sum(:col) repeatedly, then yes, it'd repeatedly execute queries.
[15:22:06] apeiros: AR does some caching, though. so it might not hit the database. you can see that in the logs.
[15:22:38] cagomez: true. would you agree that making caching explicit through memorization is better than relying on AR?
[15:22:46] cagomez: *memoization
[15:23:24] apeiros: I have no generic opinion on that
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[15:24:13] cagomez: I think it's better, at least semantically, to let others know that the collection is an AR relation and that `.sum` is executing a DB query that we don't want to repeat
[15:25:15] apeiros: in a language like ruby? I don't share that opinion, no. if you want that, you should use a typed language.
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[15:26:09] apeiros: but I'm not sure that's even necessary. at some point, you just don't know whether something is expensive or not by just looking at a piece of text.
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[17:43:22] cagomez: I have an array of objects respond to .call . is there a way to .call them all and accumulate their results?
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[17:44:11] dminuoso: cagomez, map
[17:44:30] dminuoso: cagomez, [a,b,c].map(&:call)
[17:44:34] apeiros: array of objects is redundant ;-)
[17:44:47] apeiros: I should read the full sentence :D
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[19:06:16] apeiros: how'd you name a method which tells you that a value passes validation, but is probably still wrong, e.g. email_address.value # => "foo@gmial.com"; email_address.XXXXX? # => true
[19:06:37] apeiros: I currently go with email_address.suspicious?, but I'm not sure I like it
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[19:12:47] baweaver: apeiros: a value may be a number, but it may be out of range. Those would be two distinct validations. In the case of typo'd emails though, that's tough.
[19:13:22] apeiros: it's about plausibility
[19:13:27] baweaver: because then you run the risk of correcting something that's not really bad
[19:13:42] apeiros: i.e. there's a formal validation, if the value doesn't pass that, it's #invalid?
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[19:13:49] apeiros: but a value may be formally valid, but improbable
[19:13:57] baweaver: You might make an orange / yellow UI state
[19:14:04] apeiros: yes, that's the visual cue
[19:14:06] baweaver: "You sure about that one mate?"
[19:14:09] apeiros: along with a text
[19:14:44] baweaver: You could also make it a vector instead
[19:14:50] apeiros: i.e. you are allowed to save that value, but the system tells you to be careful and check again
[19:15:02] baweaver: Something is x% to be invalid, so trigger partial warning
[19:15:09] apeiros: oh, a 1 dimensional vector :D
[19:15:30] baweaver: Something based off of Levenshtein distance or the like of known good values.
[19:15:30] apeiros: ok, yes, it could be done via scoring + threshold
[19:15:54] apeiros: but that doesn't rid me of the question how I should call the method which you use to query whether that threshold has been crossed
[19:15:55] baweaver: that way you don't need to hardcode it, and if there's enough overlap on domains you can do a "did you mean X?"
[19:16:07] apeiros: suspicious? is one, improbable? is another
[19:16:27] apeiros: yeah, not really my question baweaver ;-)
[19:16:33] baweaver: Do you really need one though?
[19:16:49] baweaver: if form.email.typo_score > 2
[19:17:36] apeiros: I think form.email.improbable? is much better than form.email.score > 2. magic numbers and stuff, putting values where they belong etc. ;-)
[19:17:43] apeiros: (also readability)
[19:18:06] apeiros: also probable/improbable may well be binary
[19:18:30] baweaver: ACTION wanders back to sketching Lemurs
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[19:18:59] apeiros: hm, I think I'll go with probable?/improbable?, it's got clear opposite methods
[19:19:26] apeiros: .suspicious?/.unsuspicious? somehow feels like carrying a connotation I don't want
[19:19:27] tbuehlmann: baweaver: keep that going, I like them lemurs
[19:19:49] apeiros: thanks baweaver
[19:19:50] baweaver: Ah good, because I have some very fun news
[19:20:28] apeiros: if there are other opinions, be my guest :)
[19:20:48] baweaver: news which I'll PM people for now ;)
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[23:33:57] arooni: having trouble getting my ruby script command that works fine within my bash/fish shell over ssh; but when its run via cron; it fails. i tried following; http://g14n.info/2016/05/crontab-best-practices/ ;; still running into the same issue ;; throwing a Bundler couldn't find some gems. (RuntimeError)
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[23:37:11] apeiros: arooni: your cron and bash/fish probably run a) under a different user and b) have different envs
[23:37:34] dviola: please don't crosspost (asking in #ruby and ##linux at the same time)
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[23:42:10] arooni: wasnt really sure if it was a ruby/linux issue to be honest
[23:42:40] apeiros: arooni: it's basic decency to at least inform channels that you're cross-posting.
[23:43:12] apeiros: experience shows that most people who get help in one channel then become unresponsive in all other channels they posted. that's annoying AF.
[23:44:16] arooni: apeiros: noted. learned something new today
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